Cousins Vs Monroe

  • Thread starter Thread starter sactownfan
  • Start date Start date
ok well its appears like we are going to be basically choosing between Cousins vs Monroe... Aldrich could be in the mix or maybe a wing or random player... but it looks mostly like these two guys...

Whats everyones thoughts at choosing one over the other...

Honestly Cousins could be the most talented player down the line... but I really dont like his attitude and could really see him being a bad fit with our long term plans... i could really see him being like a Zach Randolph type guy. talented and skilled but holding his team and himself back by being such a bone head...

Monroe however is pretty offensively skilled in the post which we could really use... plus has the court vision and shooting touch Geoff loves... But maybe doesn't have the potential of cousins...

Im really warming up to Monroe being the guy... and chalking it up to either Monroe or Hawes will eventually step up into being a solid starting Center... and the other being an ok bench player... thus leaving this team with the starting and reserve Centers we need... also allowing Laundry and JT as the 1, 2 PF players...

This should end the Cousins vs. Monroe debate -

Cousins - 14.6 rebounds, 1.49 steals and 2.69 blocks pro-rated to 35 minutes per game while shooting 55.8%
Monroe - 9.8 rebounds, 1.23 steals and 1.53 blocks pro-rated to 35 minutes per game shooting 52%

Based on production at the highest level of college basketball, Cousins is clearly the better athlete and better player (in my opinion, the stats that translate best to pro production are rebounds, steals, blocks and shooting %). You don't win championships with mediocre players like Greg Monroe.
 
I thought at times I was watching Kwame Brown.:p

Is it just that the footage is on slowmotion or Cousins really looks like Kwame Brown with that headband he's wearing? He looks so slow and raw on this highlights.

Oh well, as long as he plays wih that mean streak, I don't mind if he looks like Kwame Brown. At least with him we won't ever read the word soggy waffles to describe his game. And he is still young so he has time on his side to improve.:D

I'm hoping that your joking. Because if Cousins is slow and raw, then every other college center is slower and more raw than him. No one, and I mean no one that he played against could stop him one on one. Most of the time they couldn't stop him two on one. Remember, your not looking at a point guard here. Your looking at a 290 lb 6'11" center. His footwork is outstanding. His ability to seal his man from the basket is rare for a 19 year old. Watch how many times he comes down with a rebound in a crowd.

As Dime Dropper says, go and watch some of the games.
 
Well, today there are numerous reports that Cousins won't workout for Minn, and his agent is on the record as saying he's almost certain Minn will take Johnson. Apparently, Cousins agent is convinced enough Minn won't take him he's not considering having Cousins workout for them.

This news just keeps getting better. Getting to the point I think it's likely Cousins falls to us. Also had a very good workout on saturday, and was the most polished player, as well as the best shooter that has worked out for the Kings so far, according to Voison and Yahoo sports. Said the Kings were very impressed with Cousins talent.
 
I'm hoping that your joking. Because if Cousins is slow and raw, then every other college center is slower and more raw than him. No one, and I mean no one that he played against could stop him one on one. Most of the time they couldn't stop him two on one. Remember, your not looking at a point guard here. Your looking at a 290 lb 6'11" center. His footwork is outstanding. His ability to seal his man from the basket is rare for a 19 year old. Watch how many times he comes down with a rebound in a crowd.

As Dime Dropper says, go and watch some of the games.
I wasn't joking, but don't get me wrong because Cousins is number one on my list. I even had second thoughts on Wall and Turner before the lottery because I want us to have this "bad" BIG kid. And upto now it is Cousins for me for that 5th pick.

I really thought that on the footage Cousins seems to move so slow and therefore looks raw and many times he seems to look like Kwame Brown with the headband he's wearing. And that is why I asked on my previous post: " Is it just that the footage is on slowmotion or Cousins really looks like Kwame Brown with that headband he's wearing? "
 
I'm excited about the possibility of getting Cousins, but I've grown so fond of Wesley Johnson over the last month, it kind of makes me sad that we might not have a shot at him.
 
I thought at times I was watching Kwame Brown.:p

Is it just that the footage is on slowmotion or Cousins really looks like Kwame Brown with that headband he's wearing? He looks so slow and raw on this highlights.

Oh well, as long as he plays wih that mean streak, I don't mind if he looks like Kwame Brown. At least with him we won't ever read the word soggy waffles to describe his game. And he is still young so he has time on his side to improve.:D

In the open court, Cousins looks slow but that's because he's 6'11" 290 lbs and running along guards. But put him in the post, he's extremely agile for a big man. Check out some of his post spin moves where he just blows by his post defender with a spin move ala Charles Barkeley.
 
In the open court, Cousins looks slow but that's because he's 6'11" 290 lbs and running along guards. But put him in the post, he's extremely agile for a big man. Check out some of his post spin moves where he just blows by his post defender with a spin move ala Charles Barkeley.

He has quick feet, but he's not quick. If that makes any sense.
 
Particularly enjoyed 2.30 mark, where he casually picks a scrawny little guard off the floor when he won't release the ball. I want that mean streak.
That was funny. :D

Watching the video, I just felt like, "How could the Kings not want a guy like that in the middle?" Its what we've been pining for for a long time, someone who won't be pushed around and can actually intimidate in the middle.

Do I worry about some of the rumors about his attitude? Sure, but if he's there at five, we need to take this guy, unless there are major and clear red flags.

I actually trust GP to make the right call as far as character/attitude goes. Also, we have a lot of good character, hard-working guys on the Kings. Hopefully, they'll have a good influence on Cousins. I can't imagine Evans putting up with anybody that won't work hard. Evans wants to win.
 
Cousins > Monroe

If DC is available, we must take him. Monroe might be more skilled and may be a good player down the line. But DC is a banger and there aren't many of those nowadays playing center for whatever reason. DC plays like a true center should. Down low banging and posting. He shot over 70% at the workout on Saturday if I'm not mistaken. He has the opportunity to be a complete true center. It would be better if we got to see his workout and the ones in the coming weeks but I doubt they'll release it. So judging from what we know..

For me at #5, Cousins, Johnson and then Monroe.

If we trade down to #10 or around there, then Whiteside is worth the chance considering his length and athleticism.
 
I think you have to 'swing for the fences' (again) and go with Cousins, if they're both available. It worked for us last year, and if it does again, we're pretty much done with the 'acquire young talent' phase of the rebuild.

Also, could Cousins' agent not wanting him to work out in Minny be more of a fit thing? I mean, even if Minny has made up their collective mind to take Wes Johnson, it would be nothing short of myopic for them to not at least work Cousins out. Hell, we worked out Derick Favors, despite the fact there is almost zero chance he falls to us. I think that Cousins is a better fit in Sacramento than he is in Minnesota, and his agent probably does too. Cousins sees himself as a franchise player, and we've got a big gaping hole at just the position he plays. He'd be in a position to succeed here in Sacramento, without having to battle a star 20/10 guy for minutes (Jefferson).

All that being said, with how much we all want Petrie to take Cousins, he'll probably pick somebody completely different, like Aldrich, Udoh, or Whiteside, and it will be Rubio 2.0 (with us all hopefully being happier for it in the end).
 
That was funny. :D

Watching the video, I just felt like, "How could the Kings not want a guy like that in the middle?" Its what we've been pining for for a long time, someone who won't be pushed around and can actually intimidate in the middle.

Do I worry about some of the rumors about his attitude? Sure, but if he's there at five, we need to take this guy, unless there are major and clear red flags.

I actually trust GP to make the right call as far as character/attitude goes. Also, we have a lot of good character, hard-working guys on the Kings. Hopefully, they'll have a good influence on Cousins. I can't imagine Evans putting up with anybody that won't work hard. Evans wants to win.

I completely agree with you Kennandog - there is no way he falls past the kings at #5.
 
I'm excited about the possibility of getting Cousins, but I've grown so fond of Wesley Johnson over the last month, it kind of makes me sad that we might not have a shot at him.

Oh I've been with you on this for a while now. I probably feel the same as you about Johnson but I feel even stronger about Aldrich. Ah well I guess I can follow their careers wherever they go. :(
 
I think you have to 'swing for the fences' (again) and go with Cousins, if they're both available. It worked for us last year, and if it does again, we're pretty much done with the 'acquire young talent' phase of the rebuild.

Also, could Cousins' agent not wanting him to work out in Minny be more of a fit thing? I mean, even if Minny has made up their collective mind to take Wes Johnson, it would be nothing short of myopic for them to not at least work Cousins out. Hell, we worked out Derick Favors, despite the fact there is almost zero chance he falls to us. I think that Cousins is a better fit in Sacramento than he is in Minnesota, and his agent probably does too. Cousins sees himself as a franchise player, and we've got a big gaping hole at just the position he plays. He'd be in a position to succeed here in Sacramento, without having to battle a star 20/10 guy for minutes (Jefferson).

All that being said, with how much we all want Petrie to take Cousins, he'll probably pick somebody completely different, like Aldrich, Udoh, or Whiteside, and it will be Rubio 2.0 (with us all hopefully being happier for it in the end).

I don't know why people there'd ever be a scenario where Minny keeps Cousins, Jefferson, and Love. If they draft and keep Cousins, they're more than likely going to deal Jefferson.
 
I don't know why people there'd ever be a scenario where Minny keeps Cousins, Jefferson, and Love. If they draft and keep Cousins, they're more than likely going to deal Jefferson.

There you go again, popping my balloon. Damm!!
 
There you go again, popping my balloon. Damm!!

I'm not saying they will draft him, but if they did, it's not going to be a situation of them keeping all 3 of Cousins, Jefferson, and Love. So if that's a concern for Cousins' camp, then I don't think they're thinking things through. I don't think that's a concern for them though, I just think they're not interested in Minny because Minny's not interested in Cousins.
 
I'm not saying they will draft him, but if they did, it's not going to be a situation of them keeping all 3 of Cousins, Jefferson, and Love. So if that's a concern for Cousins' camp, then I don't think they're thinking things through. I don't think that's a concern for them though, I just think they're not interested in Minny because Minny's not interested in Cousins.

Minny might hang on to Jefferson for a while to showcase him for a trade, however. He's had injury problems, and is on a large contract, so if they're looking to trade him immediately, they're going to lose out value wise. If they draft Cousins, he's not going anywhere for 4 years anyway, and they don't really lose much hanging on to him and 'encouraging' him to hit the weights and bring his physique up to NBA standards. I just can't believe that the Wolves would have so little interest in him as not to even bring him in for a work out. That's just laziness on the part of Kahn. In terms of physical talent, Cousins is probably the second-best prospect in this draft. I'm willing to bet that, if he hit the gym and turned some of his fat in to muscle, he'd see a significant improvement in his explosiveness and quickness.

Though, I guess I can see them skipping on Cousins completely if they're trying to get Rubio over here ASAP. Rubio has stated he wants the team to improve before he joins them, and trading Jefferson would not be a step in that direction. Neither would taking Cousins and keeping him on the bench, really, and as the more mature, ready-to-contribute player, Wes Johnson might be a better option for them. I just can't fathom them completely ignoring a player as talented as Cousins, though.
 
I don't see how Jefferson's trade value can really go up that much. Everyone knows what kind of player he is, and it's not like he missed much time last year. If anything, by "showcasing" him they're risking him getting hurt again.
 
Minny taking Cousins is without doubt not in their best interest.

- Cousins is not run and gun like they've stated they want to do.
- He's not best suited to the triangle let alone learning it .
- He's a few years from developing and being an impact player.
- The possible volatility of him in an unhappy situation.
- They have a fairly decent front court already.
- They need an outside shooter bad.
- If they take a step back and become a mess, good luck getting Ricky Rubio over here.
- Rambis is a 2nd year coach who can't risk headaches.
- Cousins DOES NOT WANT TO GO THERE... how many players can Kahn beg and plead with at a time to get to his team????.......
 
The last thing Cousins is is raw. He has a pretty polished game already, although obviously there's still alot of room for improvement. He's actually a very good passer, which is an element of his game that's often overlooked. Has some nice moves in the post and his footwork is genuinely brilliant. Very strong rebounder too. Try and catch some of his games if you can. Think they're still being showed on the NCAA website.

What I find even more impressive than how skilled Cousins is as a player, is the fact that he has only played 6 years of organized basketball. I didn't realize that 'til I watched his interview after working out for the Kings. He mentioned that he didn't start playing basketball 'til 8th grade cause he always figured he would be a football player. Imagine how much room he has for growth, and how far he has come as a player in such a short time.
 
Minny taking Cousins is without doubt not in their best interest.

- Cousins is not run and gun like they've stated they want to do.
- He's not best suited to the triangle let alone learning it .
- He's a few years from developing and being an impact player.
- The possible volatility of him in an unhappy situation.
- They have a fairly decent front court already.
- They need an outside shooter bad.
- If they take a step back and become a mess, good luck getting Ricky Rubio over here.
- Rambis is a 2nd year coach who can't risk headaches.
- Cousins DOES NOT WANT TO GO THERE... how many players can Kahn beg and plead with at a time to get to his team????.......
Bolded is the reason I think they will pass. Weren't they trying to get Anthony Randolph for this exact reason? They want a run and gun around Rubio so I doubt that they want big slow guys, which is probably why they will go for someone else. Of course that doesn't stop the possibility of them trading out of the pick for a young fast player(s).
 
Minny taking Cousins is without doubt not in their best interest.

- Cousins is not run and gun like they've stated they want to do.
- He's not best suited to the triangle let alone learning it .
- He's a few years from developing and being an impact player.
- The possible volatility of him in an unhappy situation.
- They have a fairly decent front court already.
- They need an outside shooter bad.
- If they take a step back and become a mess, good luck getting Ricky Rubio over here.
- Rambis is a 2nd year coach who can't risk headaches.
- Cousins DOES NOT WANT TO GO THERE... how many players can Kahn beg and plead with at a time to get to his team????.......
I have been a Cousins supporter for a while now. I am praying we get him, and right now it's looking pretty good. I too think Minn will pass on Cousins.

However, there are a number of things here I completely disagree with.

Number one, to be a run and gun team, or fastbreaking team, you need to get the rebound first. The center or pf starts the fastbreak with the rebound and outlet pass. Do you really think fastbreaking teams are looking for their center on the other end of a fastbreak?

Two, he's very versatile. He's got great footwork in the post. Can score in the post. Can hit the 15-18 ft jumper. Look at the reports from his workout on sat regarding his shooting. Is a good passer. Not great. But good. Can face up the defender, and put the ball on the floor. He actually would be a very good fit for the triangle offense. And how do you know he's incapable of learning it?

Three, he'll make an inpact right away. Here or in Minn. Wherever. What makes you think he won't have an impact?

Four, you're implying Cousins might come in and tear a team apart. He does have a little temper, which I don't mind one bit. As he's said, he's not out there to make friends, but to win games. But I have never heard anywhere he was a bad teammate. Or uncoachable. Or is capable of being a menace in the locker room.

The reason Minn would pass on Cousins is because he would clog their frontline, and doesn't gel with their other frontcourt player. A big is clearly not their biggest need. It's a wing, and Johnson is hands down the best wing in this draft. Everything else, IMO, you're blowing out of proportion.
 
I have been a Cousins supporter for a while now. I am praying we get him, and right now it's looking pretty good. I too think Minn will pass on Cousins.

However, there are a number of things here I completely disagree with.

Number one, to be a run and gun team, or fastbreaking team, you need to get the rebound first. The center or pf starts the fastbreak with the rebound and outlet pass. Do you really think fastbreaking teams are looking for their center on the other end of a fastbreak?

Two, he's very versatile. He's got great footwork in the post. Can score in the post. Can hit the 15-18 ft jumper. Look at the reports from his workout on sat regarding his shooting. Is a good passer. Not great. But good. Can face up the defender, and put the ball on the floor. He actually would be a very good fit for the triangle offense. And how do you know he's incapable of learning it?

Three, he'll make an inpact right away. Here or in Minn. Wherever. What makes you think he won't have an impact?

Four, you're implying Cousins might come in and tear a team apart. He does have a little temper, which I don't mind one bit. As he's said, he's not out there to make friends, but to win games. But I have never heard anywhere he was a bad teammate. Or uncoachable. Or is capable of being a menace in the locker room.

The reason Minn would pass on Cousins is because he would clog their frontline, and doesn't gel with their other frontcourt player. A big is clearly not their biggest need. It's a wing, and Johnson is hands down the best wing in this draft. Everything else, IMO, you're blowing out of proportion.

Well have your opinion and I'll have mine.... but blowing it out of proportion... whatever, everything I listed has been listed before... but I'm on your side dude, I like Cousins but he's not the best fit for the TWolves is all I'm saying. NOT PICKING ON CUZ! :rolleyes:

Fastbreak same as run and gun?, some maybe... and rebounding, is needed then what? Kentucky wasn't a fastbreak team. Cousins had the absolute worst time on the Sprint, and 5 worst on agility at predraft measurements. Yea, I think fastbreak teams would like to get there center back asap. I'm sure his numbers will pick up during camp, but for now... they are what they are, not the best for what they say they want.

Triangle; Didn't mean he was incapable, but do they have time? Theus tried pressing it on our young guys just to confuse everybody. Just my take on it, but I'm not thinking Cousins BBIQ is quite that advanced at 19 to pick it up under a new coach and a bad team. The only team successful with it is Lakers, a vet team with a HF Coach.

Impact; He's a really young big, it always takes time. Many reports say he's raw. In Sac he'd impact more, but look who's in front of him... Minni he has more of a logjam for playtime. Maybe they'll make a trade, but doubt it with Al's value dropping from last seasons injuries. They'll wait till it comes back up if anything. I just think Cuz is a few years away from making a big impact... once again, does Minni want to wait when they have some quality bigs already and can draft a bigger need?

"If they take a step back and become a mess, good luck getting Ricky Rubio over here"? If Cuz isn't a good fit ON THE WOLVES and they suck again, yes Ricky will balk more.

But I do think Minni is going to be rolling the dice if they don't take his concerns for going to them seriously though. It doesn't mean he'll tear the team apart... just if it doesn't work as planned, yes I can see some issues whether from Cuz, his agent, or the media making things rough for them... From what I've read Ricky isn't that thrilled about playing there anyway... another terrible season with fireworks and he'll just make his millions overseas a still longer.

My point still leads to your final assessment... same outcome. I hope he falls to us then leave it up to Petrie... but I didn't make that list knocking Cuz... just his fit with the TWolves.. I just so happen to think he fits with us GREAT. ;)
 
Last edited:
D13 said:
Fastbreak same as run and gun?, some maybe... and rebounding, is needed then what? Kentucky wasn't a fastbreak team. Cousins had the absolute worst time on the Sprint, and 5 worst on agility at predraft measurements. Yea, I think fastbreak teams would like to get there center back asap. I'm sure his numbers will pick up during camp, but for now... they are what they are, not the best for what they say they want.


Udoh: 11.15
Cousins: 11.40
Aldrich: 11.48
Varnado: 11.61
Brackins: 11.65
Davis: 11.70
Favors: 11.74
Whiteside: 11.83
Parakhouski: 12.07
Monroe: 12.10
Orton: 12.32
Caractor: 12.78

Those are the results of the agility testing for the most of the big men. As you can see, Cousins had the second fastest time of all the bigs. Not the fifth slowest. It might help to get the facts first. No one said he was a sprinter, but that he had quick feet in the post. Thus his time, other than Udoh's is the fastest time of all the bigs...
 
Udoh: 11.15
Cousins: 11.40
Aldrich: 11.48
Varnado: 11.61
Brackins: 11.65

Davis: 11.70
Favors: 11.74
Whiteside: 11.83
Parakhouski: 12.07

Monroe: 12.10
Orton: 12.32
Caracter: 12.78


Those are the results of the agility testing for the most of the big men. As you can see, Cousins had the second fastest time of all the bigs. Not the fifth slowest.

But, see, he did have the fifth worst time of guys who are widely thought to be in the mix for a top-ten pick! Keep in mind LeBron James is the 30th worst starting small forward in the league, too.
 
Udoh: 11.15
Cousins: 11.40
Aldrich: 11.48
Varnado: 11.61
Brackins: 11.65
Davis: 11.70
Favors: 11.74
Whiteside: 11.83
Parakhouski: 12.07
Monroe: 12.10
Orton: 12.32
Caractor: 12.78

Those are the results of the agility testing for the most of the big men. As you can see, Cousins had the second fastest time of all the bigs. Not the fifth slowest. It might help to get the facts first. No one said he was a sprinter, but that he had quick feet in the post. Thus his time, other than Udoh's is the fastest time of all the bigs...

I have a hard time seeing athletic testing as "the facts."
 
If Minnesota is serious about sticking with Kurt Rambis and running the triangle offense than they need to do everything they can to trade up and nab Evan Turner in this draft. Wesley Johnson would help their offense by spacing the floor and hitting shots but that system doesn't work without at least one wing player who can facilitate and they don't have anyone like that right now. On the other hand, if they're serious about running the triangle offense they also should keep Al Jefferson because very few players in the NBA are as effective scoring in the post as he is. So there's some mixed signals there. Not to mention Ricky Rubio is hardly the best point guard for that system.

So, in other words, I'm not even going to try to predict what Minnesota is thinking right now because I don't think they even know themselves.
 
My guess is the triangle goes before Rubio ever goes. I don't think the triangle has a place in the NBA anymore without Phil Jackson coaching it. Jefferson is not a good player for the triangle because the ball stops with him. Cousins at least has the passing ability.
 
Back
Top