Cousins' training

I would even venture to say he will score more..

Predicted 13/9 or 14/10 (with a block to a block and a half) last year depending on if he started halfway through the season.. Was pretty spot on with that.

This year I will go with 18ppg 10rpg 2.5apg and a block and a half per game.

Considering he averaged 2.5 assists a game last season, I think your a little light there. I think he'll average close to 4 assists a game. Especially if he can log closer to 30 minutes a game. I think 18 pts and 10 boards is more than reasonable. I also think he'll average close to 1.3 blocks a game.
 
I love Big Cuz and all just like the rest of ya'll and think alot of his massive potential.

But if I get a slight chance to shift him for Dwight on a full contract, he's out of here before he can say "goodbye", thats realtalk.

Actually i'd call all u guys not thinking otherwise somewhat crazy, overly optemistic and massive homers thinking and hesitating about this kind of thing - no disrespect and in a bad way ofcourse - but still, crazy as hell.

Also Dwights defence alot in here talk about as a "oh btw" is pretty much the most importent thing to consider in all of this so I don't get why it's being pushed to the side as a not THAT importent factor compared to offence.. i'd take defence over offence anyday - especiely when that elite, once in a generation type defence comes with a 20 ppg on offence on good %.

Couldn't be a bigger no brainer.
 
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I think Howard is the perfect center. I think Cuz is the perfect PF although a new breed. This is if we insist on labeling people. A trade would be easier to evaluate if we knew who the other big was on each team. Cousins paired with a defensive big is perfect in my mind. If we have a defensive big, we don't need Howard (instead of Cuz) and the trade would make no sense.

Maybe we should quit thinking of Cuz as a center. Great defense will probably never be a Cuz strongpoint and he will always need help.

Anyway, I want to see Cuz develop up close and personal as he is unique. I think he is fascinating and as much basketball as I have seen, some of the normal crowd inspiring feats no longer excite me as much as before. A 6'11" guy leading a fast break or flipping a behind the back pass effectively is exciting.

So I won't answer my original question except to say it all depends on the context.
 
I love Big Cuz and all just like the rest of ya'll and think alot of his massive potential.

But if I get a slight chance to shift him for Dwight on a full contract, he's out of here before he can say "goodbye", thats realtalk.

Actually i'd call all u guys not thinking otherwise somewhat crazy, overly optemistic and massive homers thinking and hesitating about this kind of thing - no disrespect and in a bad way ofcourse - but still, crazy as hell.

Also Dwights defence alot in here talk about as a "oh btw" is pretty much the most importent thing to consider in all of this so I don't get why it's being pushed to the side as a not THAT importent factor compared to offence.. i'd take defence over offence anyday - especiely when that elite, once in a generation type defence comes with a 20 ppg on offence on good %.

Couldn't be a bigger no brainer.

If one more person calls me a homer, I'll meet him in the alley of his choice!!!!!! Can't we share opinions without calling names? I watched Robert Parish get traded after a couple of seasons for someone the Warriors thought would be the stud of the future. How'd that work out for the Warriors? last time I checked, Parish had a couple of rings. Winning isn't ever about one player! Its about teamwork, and how that one player fits with the concept of the team. Would Howard make that difference? Maybe! But there aren't any guarantees. Everyone thought that putting Wade, James, and Bosh on the same team would guarantee a championship. Didn't happen did it?
 
Sometimes I wonder if people actually watch Howard play an actual game rather than watching espn or checking boxscores. Before the playoffs I said Atlanta would beat Orlando and everyone thought I was crazy.
 
Sometimes I wonder if people actually watch Howard play an actual game rather than watching espn or checking boxscores. Before the playoffs I said Atlanta would beat Orlando and everyone thought I was crazy.

Howard is a great peice to have because of his defense, but NOT a player that you can build a championship team around IMO. Defense is really nice to have, but you need someone that can make to big play on offense in crucial situations to win the big games. Howard is very one-dimentional on offense, and can be neutalized. The year they were the most successful had a lot to due with Hedo getting the whole team involved and making Orlando a much harder team to stop on offense.

This is one of the reasons that I like the future of Cousins so much. He has shown all the skills to be a dominate offensive player who also makes his teammates better (which is important IMO). He also showed a lot of improvement on defense last season, especially in the post. I don't expect him to ever win DPOY, but think he can become a solid defensive player. If he continues to improve, he has the potenial to be one of the best centers in the NBA.

There is no doubt that Howard is a better player right now, but I would rather bank on the future of Cousins if given the choice. He may not live up to his potential, but I think he can be a better overall player than Howard. Only time will tell.
 
I'd trade Cuz for Howard...

...But I'd have to think about it, and that says something for Cuz.

Although, seeing as how Cousins actually has a jumper, I think he's the better pair with Reke (although if Reke ever gets a jumper I'd prefer him paired with Howard).
 
Why are people willing to trade DeMarcus so early for Dwight? I know Dwight is one of a kind specimen but let's give Cuz a couple of years to put it all together, hopefully....*fingers crossed*
 
At least your keeping a positive attitude... By the way, Webb wasn't as good a passer as Cousins is right now when he came into the league. Nor was Vlade. Its called improvement. Overall, if you compare Webb and Cousins at the same stage of their careers, Cousins is far more skilled. Where Webb had the advantage was with his athleticism. Webb had little or no jumpshot when he came into the league. We're really comparing apple's and oranges. Webb was a PF and Cousins is a center. I think Cousins has the ability to be one of the top 2 or 3 centers in the league. Its not going to happen tomorrow, but if he continues to work hard, it will happen.

Don't get me wrong, I'm trying to be realistic more than pessimistic.

Webber was just flat out a better passer early in his career. He was a better passer in college than Cousins is right now. Thats not a knock on Cousins, it just goes to show you how great Webber was with the ball. Cousins is already an above average passer for a big man but Webber was elite.

You're absolutely right about Cousins having a much better jumpshot than Webber did early on. In the end, Webber had an amazing 16 foot elbow jumper. It remains to be seen if Cousins can get to that point but he has a good shot at it.

Webber was much more athletic but Cousins surprised me with his rebounding. Very solid rebounding year for a guy who doesn't look like he can jump. I don't ever see him getting 13reb's a game like Webber did that year but he should float around in the 10-12per game area for quite some time.

As far as comparing to Howard. I mean come on, who wouldn't trade him for Howard? It's like hey lets wait and see if this guy could maybe be as good as Howard some day, or lets just trade him for the real deal. The chances of Cousins ending up better than Howard are slim. Cousins might have better all around basketball skills but Howard completely dominates the important factors that are required as a center.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm trying to be realistic more than pessimistic.

Webber was just flat out a better passer early in his career. He was a better passer in college than Cousins is right now. Thats not a knock on Cousins, it just goes to show you how great Webber was with the ball. Cousins is already an above average passer for a big man but Webber was elite.

You're absolutely right about Cousins having a much better jumpshot than Webber did early on. In the end, Webber had an amazing 16 foot elbow jumper. It remains to be seen if Cousins can get to that point but he has a good shot at it.

Webber was much more athletic but Cousins surprised me with his rebounding. Very solid rebounding year for a guy who doesn't look like he can jump. I don't ever see him getting 13reb's a game like Webber did that year but he should float around in the 10-12per game area for quite some time.

As far as comparing to Howard. I mean come on, who wouldn't trade him for Howard? It's like hey lets wait and see if this guy could maybe be as good as Howard some day, or lets just trade him for the real deal. The chances of Cousins ending up better than Howard are slim. Cousins might have better all around basketball skills but Howard completely dominates the important factors that are required as a center.

I hate to argue for Cousins, by being negative toward Howard. Truth is, I like both players, and would love to pair them together. Now thats probably not reality, but I can dream. Howard is probably the best defensive big man in the NBA. And if thats your top priority, then he's your man. We've also had 7 years to evaluate Howard, so we know what were getting. Not so with Cousins. Age wise, not that big a difference. Just a few years. What makes Howard unique, is the fact that offensively he'll give you 20 plus points a game. But lets be honest. Offensively he's not special. He has little or no game away from the basket. His passing has improved slightly, but its nothing to write home about. His freethrow percentage is stuck at around 58% with his first year in the league being the best in his career. My biggest fear with Howard, is that his entire game relies heavily on his athleticism. So he's one knee injury away from becoming an average player.

Now god forbid, that'll never happen. Shaq managed to skate through most of his career injury free, and had a similar game to Howards. I have, and will admit again that I'm a skills guy. Cousins is a skills type of player. As was Webb, and Vlade. I most championship teams are made up of skill players. The Boston Celtics had Bird, McHale, and Parish. None of which would be accused of being super athletes. Now if you can find a great athlete that also has great skills, then you have a Michael Jordan, or a Kobe Bryant. But they don't grow on trees.

I believe that Cousins has the potential to be that kind of player. A Larry Bird type. Not a great athlete, but smart and very skilled. And if so, then I would have great reluctance to trade him for anyone. For one thing, he fits the kind of team I believe Petrie is trying to put together. Like it or not, Petrie likes motion offenses. So you need bigs that can shoot the ball, pass the ball, and play high or low. Now if you trade Cousins for Howard, then I think you have to rethink the whole team, and type of offense you want to play. You'd probably have to go to more of a dribble drive and shoot or dish offense.

I will also admit to being somewhat selfish. I liked and touted Cousins in college. I wanted the Kings to draft him, and I defended him on this fourm. So selfishly, I want to see him develop. Probably not a good reason for not trading him. Ouch, a double negative. Hope my english teacher isn't reading this. Anyway, we're wasting a lot time discussing something that doesn't have a chance in hell of happening. Actually, our chances of signing him when he becomes a freeagent are better than our chances of trading for him. The other day Howard tweeted that Tyreke was his boy. Hmmm! That sounds like we might have one player that could intice him to come. All we need to do is make sure we have enough money left for the next freeagency period after this year. Hey! It could happen!
 
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IMO trading for Howard and losing DMC with the current genetic makeup for the Kings is a HUGE mistake. Epic. Howard would clog the lane and render Tyrekes driving game useless.
 
My biggest fear with Howard, is that his entire game relies heavily on his athleticism. So he's one knee injury away from becoming an average player.

...

I believe that Cousins has the potential to be that kind of player. A Larry Bird type. Not a great athlete, but smart and very skilled. And if so, then I would have great reluctance to trade him for anyone.

This. I'd trade Tyreke waaay before I'd trade Cousins, and I love Tyreke.

I think Cousins has a much higher ceiling than Dwight Howard. I love Dwight, but his offensive limitations will always hold him back/down. Probably the best big man in the game right now, but he can't carry the load offensively. He can do a ton of things Cousins will never be able to do, but his skill limitations are on full display right now. He's not getting any better than he already is.

Cousins has a chance to be a truly special player. Not that Dwight isn't, but in 25 years, he'll just be remembered as another freakish athlete who was limited offensively. Cousins can be a transcendent star. I'm not declaring him an all-time great, but I think he can be the best big man of his generation. Better than Dwight, better than Amare, better than Griffin, and all the other bigs that are really good, but won't ever be Great. He can be Tim Duncan meets Hakeem Olajuwan, which would be a once-in-a-generation type player.

For those reasons, unless we're going to put together a team that can contend RIGHT NOW (or whenever the lockout ends ::rolls eyes::) I wouldn't part with Cousins. We'd have to be talking about a radical reshaping of the entire roster, an all-or-nothing approach that would include bringing in a couple of star-level players who could propel us to the top. And it better work, or else we watch Cousins become a star while our roster implodes and we're left empty-handed.
 
IMO trading for Howard and losing DMC with the current genetic makeup for the Kings is a HUGE mistake. Epic. Howard would clog the lane and render Tyrekes driving game useless.
I really don't think Dwight Howard (as big as he is) is going to somehow take up so much space down low Tyreke won't be able to score. Also as great as DeMarcus can be, Dwight is already there.

I'm pretty sure adding a solid vet who is a perennial player at his position would greatly help our scrappy team that's composed mostly of 2-3 year players. Now the ultimate scenario is to keep Cousins and have him study under the tutelage of Mr. Howard without parting with Evans...aka the impossible.
Also cause it's the lockout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nCg0M2nPfM&feature=related
 
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I hate to argue for Cousins, by being negative toward Howard. Truth is, I like both players, and would love to pair them together. Now thats probably not reality, but I can dream. Howard is probably the best defensive big man in the NBA. And if thats your top priority, then he's your man. We've also had 7 years to evaluate Howard, so we know what were getting. Not so with Cousins. Age wise, not that big a difference. Just a few years. What makes Howard unique, is the fact that offensively he'll give you 20 plus points a game. But lets be honest. Offensively he's not special. He has little or no game away from the basket. His passing has improved slightly, but its nothing to write home about. His freethrow percentage is stuck at around 58% with his first year in the league being the best in his career. My biggest fear with Howard, is that his entire game relies heavily on his athleticism. So he's one knee injury away from becoming an average player.

Now god forbid, that'll never happen. Shaq managed to skate through most of his career injury free, and had a similar game to Howards. I have, and will admit again that I'm a skills guy. Cousins is a skills type of player. As was Webb, and Vlade. I most championship teams are made up of skill players. The Boston Celtics had Bird, McHale, and Parish. None of which would be accused of being super athletes. Now if you can find a great athlete that also has great skills, then you have a Michael Jordan, or a Kobe Bryant. But they don't grow on trees.

I believe that Cousins has the potential to be that kind of player. A Larry Bird type. Not a great athlete, but smart and very skilled. And if so, then I would have great reluctance to trade him for anyone. For one thing, he fits the kind of team I believe Petrie is trying to put together. Like it or not, Petrie likes motion offenses. So you need bigs that can shoot the ball, pass the ball, and play high or low. Now if you trade Cousins for Howard, then I think you have to rethink the whole team, and type of offense you want to play. You'd probably have to go to more of a dribble drive and shoot or dish offense.

I will also admit to being somewhat selfish. I liked and touted Cousins in college. I wanted the Kings to draft him, and I defended him on this fourm. So selfishly, I want to see him develop. Probably not a good reason for not trading him. Ouch, a double negative. Hope my english teacher isn't reading this. Anyway, we're wasting a lot time discussing something that doesn't have a chance in hell of happening. Actually, our chances of signing him when he becomes a freeagent are better than our chances of trading for him. The other day Howard tweeted that Tyreke was his boy. Hmmm! That sounds like we might have one player that could intice him to come. All we need to do is make sure we have enough money left for the next freeagency period after this year. Hey! It could happen!

Do you want to rephrase that?
 
The main attribute that Cousins has that Howard doesn't, is the ability to make the other players on his team better. Howard may be able to score 20 something points a game, but I have no doubt that in the near future so will Cousins. Cousins is a very good rebounder and he'll only get better. Cousins is a far better ballhandler than Howard ever dreamed of being. Then you come to passing the ball. This is where Cousins has the ability to make his team better. Cousins will never match Howard defensively, but in time I think he'll be a good defensive player.

The grass isn't always greener. Besides, you don't give up a player with as much potential as Cousins after just one year.

Howard makes other players on his team much better - on defense.
 
There's a lot of homer talk going on here with Cousins. Going to be a Duncan/Olajuwon type player? Come on guys, lets get realistic here. Thats like saying if Tyreke will be the real Baby Jordan if he gets his shot falling. Every player has some kind of probably ceiling but 99% of them never make it.

Howard may be limited offensively but the guy scores 20 a game, how can you complain about that? Mix that with elite rebounding and defense and now you're just nit picking at him for not being a 6'11" Michael Jordan.

Honestly, I was loving the Dalembert/Cousins combo out there. Two big men with completely different skill sets that compliment each other nicely. I'd love to get Sammy back and see how he could do along an improving Cousins.
 
Because of the lockout and I'm bored.

Regarding the above statment, well if you like to use him that way..go ahead. I really don't see the need for Dwight to be a clutch player as long as he can still performed efficiently in the fourth quarter, that's good enough for me.

For cluth time I would surround Dwight with Tyreke(assuming he developed similar to Rose) and Thornton. I give the ball to the smaller guys if it is clutch time and a simple two points game play for Dwight if the team has a weaker center (which is most of the teams).

Defensively outside and inside would be off the chart with Tyreke and Howard. Plus 2 more players that are more defenisve minded would make my dream team a defensive beast. ;)

Scoring outside with Thornton (assuming he's the real deal like last season) and Tyreke (assuming he developed like Rose) with Dwight inside would be an offensive juggernaut. (Just being optimistic here :) ) I also can see Tyreke game would be much better as he can drive and dish it to Dwight or go for the kill. Defenders would have to worry about handling the ball to Dwight which would relax the defense on Tyreke. Either ways, the other team defender has to at least try to double whoever has the ball. So from my opinion, I would think Tyreke would improve his game with Dwight and not take away his game.

Of course combining Dwight with Cousins would be ideal but the question was (paraphrasing) "neglect everything that would prevent the trade...would you trade for Dwight with Cousins?" I guess most wouldn't but I would. I take the profit now rather than hoping for a bigger profit down the road.

As for Cousins, I see him being as talented as Paul Gasol, if he continue to developed of course, and at best slightly better (which would be huge IMO). Unless somehow he worked out like Dwight, build massive strength and become stronger defensively then that's a whole different ball game. Which I just don't see that happening. I see him working out hard enough to score a little better and play a little smarter to improve on some of his talents. So IMO he will be more like a Paul Gasol and if I have to choose Paul Gasol or Dwight..definitely Dwight.
 
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Do you want to rephrase that?

No! Not really! When using the word skate, I'm not referring to Shaq's play, but to his injuries. He did have injuries, but none that would be career ending or affecting. As or saying they had similar games. They do. Both are basicly post players and score under the basket. Both, at least early in Shaq's career, were great defenders. Both are bad freethrow shooters. Neither has any game away from the basket, and both are good rebounders. My reference was not in the vein of the chicken or the egg. The only major difference between the two, is that Shaq is bigger..
 
Because of the lockout and I'm bored.

Regarding the above statment, well if you like to use him that way..go ahead. I really don't see the need for Dwight to be a clutch player as long as he can still performed efficiently in the fourth quarter, that's good enough for me.

For cluth time I would surround Dwight with Tyreke(assuming he developed similar to Rose) and Thornton. I give the ball to the smaller guys if it is clutch time and a simple two points game play for Dwight if the team has a weaker center (which is most of the teams).

Defensively outside and inside would be off the chart with Tyreke and Howard. Plus 2 more players that are more defenisve minded would make my dream team a defensive beast. ;)

Scoring outside with Thornton (assuming he's the real deal like last season) and Tyreke (assuming he developed like Rose) with Dwight inside would be an offensive juggernaut. (Just being optimistic here :) ) I also can see Tyreke game would be much better as he can drive and dish it to Dwight or go for the kill. Defenders would have to worry about handling the ball to Dwight which would relax the defense on Tyreke. Either ways, the other team defender has to at least try to double whoever has the ball. So from my opinion, I would think Tyreke would improve his game with Dwight and not take away his game.

Of course combining Dwight with Cousins would be ideal but the question was (paraphrasing) "neglect everything that would prevent the trade...would you trade for Dwight with Cousins?" I guess most wouldn't but I would. I take the profit now rather than hoping for a bigger profit down the road.

As for Cousins, I see him being as talented as Paul Gasol, if he continue to developed of course, and at best slightly better (which would be huge IMO). Unless somehow he worked out like Dwight, build massive strength and become stronger defensively then that's a whole different ball game. Which I just don't see that happening. I see him working out hard enough to score a little better and play a little smarter to improve on some of his talents. So IMO he will be more like a Paul Gasol and if I have to choose Paul Gasol or Dwight..definitely Dwight.

Just curious. How many rings does Gasol have, and how many rings does Howard have? And please don't tell me that Howard didn't have any talent around him.
 
I think Dwight can be a great piece to have, but Cousins can be THE piece you want to have. Hes got a lot of good stuff, shooting, post up moves, passing, BBIQ, rebounding, handles. Dwight is best for rebounds, blocks from the weak side, and going up for oops.
 
I have another question and I have no answer in mind. Who does Cousins' game remind you of at ANY time in history? I don't think there is an answer unless you morph a few players together to create a Cousins. Anyway, I'm curious as the trait of Cousins that fascinates me is that he seems unique and in a very good way. He can shoot from the outside except for three pointers, he is very agile around the basket, he can power his way to the basket, he can shoot free throws, he can pass, he rebounds well, and maybe more. He lacks significant defensive abilty yet anyone his size simply by virtue of size offers some defense. I don't think this latter quality will improve much except that with years of experience he will probably learn to position himself better. Better conditioning may help quite a bit but we'll see.
 
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Just curious. How many rings does Gasol have, and how many rings does Howard have? And please don't tell me that Howard didn't have any talent around him.

Who was the best player when Gasol won the championship? I'm just saying but I don't think <name your best Orlando player beside Howard> would be comparable to Kobe.

I'm not trying to disrespect Gasol but even at his peaked he wouldn't be able to carry Orlando anywhere near what Howard had taken them. It's true that they have talents, but most of them aren't the same as they once were.
 
Just curious. How many rings does Gasol have, and how many rings does Howard have? And please don't tell me that Howard didn't have any talent around him.

I would say the same thing about LeBron James.

I think Howard is a very good center, and he's proven to be one over numerous seasons. I think he has, albeit slowly, added to his offensive arsenal and is getting better at hooks and is even developing a short range shot off the glass. If you said we had to win right now I'd take Howard in a heartbeat - you don't take potential over a surething if you're in win now mode. But I do agree that Cousins is a better fit for our current team. Howard would not be able to contribute in the same way that Cousins can, by spreading the floor, running plays and making passes, which is quite essential for us when we have Tyreke running our offense.

I think our offensive strategy/ make up has to be slightly similar to that of the old Spurs. 3 guys who can create (Thornton/Jimmer, Tyreke, Cousins) - 2 guards who can penetrate and draw double teams but are also able to hit outside shots, 1 big man who can step away from the basket a little and is good at passing out of the double team. Then we surround them with good 3 point shooters, ensuring that one of them is our main defensive guy (like Bowen was - kinda what we'd like Donte to be) and then playing good team D as a whole.
 
Who was the best player when Gasol won the championship? I'm just saying but I don't think <name your best Orlando player beside Howard> would be comparable to Kobe.

I'm not trying to disrespect Gasol but even at his peaked he wouldn't be able to carry Orlando anywhere near what Howard had taken them. It's true that they have talents, but most of them aren't the same as they once were.

My point is, that it takes a team to win a championship. I could go through history and list the players, great players, that didn't win a championship until they had the right pieces around them. No, Howard didn't have Kobe. Unfortunately there's only one Kobe. But even Kobe couldn't win until he had the right people around him. Would Howard get us into the playoffs? Most certainly! Would he win us a championship? Who knows! Its all subjective, and fun to talk about. Howard is a known comodity. Cousins isn't. How much better will Howard get? He's still young, so its possible for him to still make improvements in his game.

In Cousins case, I think we can safely say he's still got a lot of growth left. I believe he's just scratching the surface of how good he can be. And for those that like to throw the work Homie around, I would be saying that if he was on the Boston Celtics. When he was playing at Kentucky, I said that he was a special player. I still believe that. This isn't really a matter of who is better, or will be the best at the end of his career. Its which player, if you can only have one of them, is the best fit for our current team. And, as our team is currently made up, and with the style that they play, I happen to think that Cousins is the better fit. But thats just my opinion. Many disagree with me, and thats fine. You can certainly make a case for Dwight Howard.
 
My point is, that it takes a team to win a championship. I could go through history and list the players, great players, that didn't win a championship until they had the right pieces around them. No, Howard didn't have Kobe. Unfortunately there's only one Kobe. But even Kobe couldn't win until he had the right people around him. Would Howard get us into the playoffs? Most certainly! Would he win us a championship? Who knows! Its all subjective, and fun to talk about. Howard is a known comodity. Cousins isn't. How much better will Howard get? He's still young, so its possible for him to still make improvements in his game.

In Cousins case, I think we can safely say he's still got a lot of growth left. I believe he's just scratching the surface of how good he can be. And for those that like to throw the work Homie around, I would be saying that if he was on the Boston Celtics. When he was playing at Kentucky, I said that he was a special player. I still believe that. This isn't really a matter of who is better, or will be the best at the end of his career. Its which player, if you can only have one of them, is the best fit for our current team. And, as our team is currently made up, and with the style that they play, I happen to think that Cousins is the better fit. But thats just my opinion. Many disagree with me, and thats fine. You can certainly make a case for Dwight Howard.

This I agree on.
 
Theres no doubt that as of now, Howard is more dominant than Cousins because he can dominate solely because of his athleticism. But dont overlook the fact that Cousins has Howard beat at pretty much every point other than athleticism in the game of basketball. So while its true Howard is more dominant than Cousins right now due to his athleticism, at the same time Cousins is superior in skillset, BBIQ, potential, and a host of other things. And for me, thats what im banking on when it comes to Howard or Cousins.
 
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