Could this be the Kings plan?

#31
Well the first thing I'll say, is if the shoe fits, then wear it. However, I wasn't pointing the finger at you. Matter of fact I think most people on the forum respect Vlade. But if you don't think there are some that think he's not bright enough to be the GM, then your living in La La land. However, I think it's a very small group. I've always respected your opinion. I don't always agree with it, and I'm sure you don't always agree with mine. As far as Vlade's plan goes, I do think he has an overall blueprint of what he's trying to do. But as I said, nothing stays the same and you have to readjust along the way.

You may have you sights set on the summer of 2019, and suddenly you see an opportunity that might be there for you in the summer of 2018. So you make some moves that people might not understand at the time, but you do so with the idea of hopefully capitalizing on it. I have no way of proving it of course. It could just be a matter of realizing your mistake, and trying to move on from it. I certainly think that's the case with Papagiannis. He was a mistake to begin with, and with the league's new concept of what the modern center looks like, the mistake became more obvious.

You point out that we've been on this treadmill for a long time now. I agree, but to be fair to Vlade, he hasn't been. He's the new arrival, and he's not responsible for anything that proceeded him. I know that doesn't help in the patience dept, but facts are facts. I hate to go over old ground, but the evidence is that Vlade wanted to trade Cousins almost from the beginning and start over. Vivek had a different vision, and Vlade tried to do his bidding. He tried to bring in veteran players to support Cousins. Unfortunately it didn't work. This time around, the veteran players were brought in for an entirely different reason, and for the most part, I think it's worked. Not with win's, but with bringing along the young players

As for acquiring a star, I think you hope that one of maybe two of the players you draft will become a star. The Warriors are a good model. Yes, they did attract Kevin Durant, but they had already won a championship without him, and did it with homegrown stars. Sacramento isn't LA. If were to attract a big star, we need to be an attractive place to play. We have to look like a young team on the way up. You can't do that overnight, which is why Vlade singled out the summer of 2019. That's when players like Fox and Bog's etc. will have a couple of years experience, and we'll have over 60 mil in capspace.

There are a lot of if's in that scenario, but it is a plan, and for it to work, you have to stick with it until it's conclusion. That's something the team hasn't done in the last ten years. Or we can fire Vlade and Joerger and keep doing what we've been doing. Keep those revolving doors spinning.
Bingo! And hence my concerns with the moves this summer (more of the same spinning doors) unless your responding to some unforeseen event (Herzonja’s option being picked up).

The spinning door model has not just been GM’s and Coaches but players also.
 

Mike

Bench
Contributor
#32
Okay I have been frustrated with Vlade because I couldn’t see the Kings plan. To me it looked like reactionary moves in the moment. More of the Vivek era....

But thanks to the many knowledgeable posters on this board I wonder if Vlade does have a clear actionable plan:

1) draft a 4/5 in the draft... one of Ayton, Bagley or Jackson

2) Sign Hezonja in free agency to play the 3

Kings ultimate starting line up:
Giles
Bagley/Jackson/Ayton
Hezonja
Bogdanovich
Fox

Damn that could be a hell of a good group.
Here is a breakdown of Hezonja's stats per position this season:

Starting PF
- 13 starts, 30 mpg, 82/165 FG, .496 FG%, 28/71 3P, .394 3P%, 5.5 TRB, 1.7 APG, 14.9 PPG
Bench PF
- 16 games, 20 mpg, 53/122 FG, .434 FG%, 16/52 3P, .304 3P%, 3.3 TRB, 1 APG, 8.4 PPG
Starting SF
- 2 starts, 30 mpg, 7/16 FG, .438 FG%, 2/7 3P, .285 3P%, 6 TRB, 1 APG, 10 PPG
Bench SF
- 18 games, 8 mpg, 21/46 FG, .456 FG%, 14/33 3P, .424 3P%, 1.6 TRB, 0.5 APG, 2.8 PPG
Starting SG
- 1 start, 35 mpg, 6/11 FG, .545 FG%, 2/6 3P, .333 3P%, 9 TRB, 4 APG, 17 PPG
Bench SG
- N/A

As you can see, Hezonja has been effective for the Magic this season when starting at PF. He now has six straight starts at PF and has tallied over 20 points on four occasions, he's currently scored over 20 points in three straight games. He's shot the ball pretty well. So at the offensive end there is no question that Hezonja has "broken out" while playing the power forward position because he is a mismatch with his athleticism, touch, and beyond the arc shooting. The problem with Hezonja is that he doesn't match up well on the defensive end while playing power forward and often gets bullied. If you look at his +/- over the past six games he has been +1, +10, +5, -7, -5, -9. I personally wouldn't want him starting at power forward because he's a defensively liability. So either you take a hit on the defensive end, or attempt to make it work and switch assignments on the defensive end, problem is he isn't a particularly good defender even when guarding small forwards and shooting guards.

But to get back to your suggestion of putting him in at small forward, maybe that could work. If you look at his stats his most accurate 3 point shooting percentage is at that position, however that is when he is coming off the bench. Can he boost that 3 point accuracy as a member of the starting line up against the opposition starters? That would be the big question and we might not get to see the answer because when Gordon returns to their line up, Hezonja will return to the bench because they prefer to use Simmons at SG and Fournier at SF. So unless they bench one of those two and place Hezonja at SF, it would mean us taking a leap of faith in Hezonja being able to be as strong an offensive player as a starting SF as he has been while starting at PF.

Should we take a risk on Hezonja? I can see it being worthwhile if the contract was similar to what Jonathan Simmons signed with Orlando (i.e. 3 years, $20 million), or at most a three year $10 million a season with a player option in the third. That could allow us to take a good look at Hezonja as our young core develops together and if his breakout is permanent we can extend him again. I wouldn't want to see us throw too much money at him because there is always the risk that this breakout isn't permanent and his defensive liability becomes too significant to warrant being a starting player in this league. I do feel that Orlando have found the best position to get the most out of him by using him at power forward rather than small forward or shooting guard, but at the same time I have my doubts over whether he is a good long term fit at that position. So any contract we give him needs to be team friendly and potentially movable if this breakout isn't permanent.

Regarding the draft...

If we end up with the first overall pick I would take Ayton. He has everything to fit that "unicorn" term that people are throwing around these days. He has excellent athleticism and size, he's quick and strong, and he can impact the game at both ends with his offensive skill set and defensive skill set. The kid can even shoot 3 pointers which has a ton of value in the current NBA. I would not rule out the other players because I am a big believer that Michael Porter could be an excellent player at the next level, and likewise Bagley has the potential to be an excellent player at the next level. However, if we pick first, I would go for Ayton.

If we don't land the top pick and select around 3 or 4, then I would have no issue with us picking Jaren Jackson. He is another player that fits the "unicorn" term. He has excellent athleticism and size, not as quick or strong as Ayton at this point, but he has an excellent array of skills on the offensive and defensive end. He has a strong 3 point shooting percentage and is averaging over 3 blocks per game. I honestly think this kid is now a top five pick in this year's draft and is possibly deserving of the first overall pick discussion.

If those two are off the board and we are still picking top five, my preference would Bagley then Porter then Doncic.

If we are outside the top five I would target Bamba or one of the Bridges, but fingers crossed we land a top five pick because outside the top seven (Ayton, Jackson, Porter, Bagley, Doncic, Young, Bamba) I think there is then a drop off in talent. That's not to say we can't get a decent player because most years someone does tend to emerge that got ignored for whatever reason, but ideally we need to get that top five pick to hopefully five us another franchise cornerstone to partner with Fox.
 
#33
If we get the 1st pick we better announce Luka Doncic as our pick on draft lottery

Here is a breakdown of Hezonja's stats per position this season:

Starting PF
- 13 starts, 30 mpg, 82/165 FG, .496 FG%, 28/71 3P, .394 3P%, 5.5 TRB, 1.7 APG, 14.9 PPG
Bench PF
- 16 games, 20 mpg, 53/122 FG, .434 FG%, 16/52 3P, .304 3P%, 3.3 TRB, 1 APG, 8.4 PPG
Starting SF
- 2 starts, 30 mpg, 7/16 FG, .438 FG%, 2/7 3P, .285 3P%, 6 TRB, 1 APG, 10 PPG
Bench SF
- 18 games, 8 mpg, 21/46 FG, .456 FG%, 14/33 3P, .424 3P%, 1.6 TRB, 0.5 APG, 2.8 PPG
Starting SG
- 1 start, 35 mpg, 6/11 FG, .545 FG%, 2/6 3P, .333 3P%, 9 TRB, 4 APG, 17 PPG
Bench SG
- N/A

As you can see, Hezonja has been effective for the Magic this season when starting at PF. He now has six straight starts at PF and has tallied over 20 points on four occasions, he's currently scored over 20 points in three straight games. He's shot the ball pretty well. So at the offensive end there is no question that Hezonja has "broken out" while playing the power forward position because he is a mismatch with his athleticism, touch, and beyond the arc shooting. The problem with Hezonja is that he doesn't match up well on the defensive end while playing power forward and often gets bullied. If you look at his +/- over the past six games he has been +1, +10, +5, -7, -5, -9. I personally wouldn't want him starting at power forward because he's a defensively liability. So either you take a hit on the defensive end, or attempt to make it work and switch assignments on the defensive end, problem is he isn't a particularly good defender even when guarding small forwards and shooting guards.

But to get back to your suggestion of putting him in at small forward, maybe that could work. If you look at his stats his most accurate 3 point shooting percentage is at that position, however that is when he is coming off the bench. Can he boost that 3 point accuracy as a member of the starting line up against the opposition starters? That would be the big question and we might not get to see the answer because when Gordon returns to their line up, Hezonja will return to the bench because they prefer to use Simmons at SG and Fournier at SF. So unless they bench one of those two and place Hezonja at SF, it would mean us taking a leap of faith in Hezonja being able to be as strong an offensive player as a starting SF as he has been while starting at PF.

Should we take a risk on Hezonja? I can see it being worthwhile if the contract was similar to what Jonathan Simmons signed with Orlando (i.e. 3 years, $20 million), or at most a three year $10 million a season with a player option in the third. That could allow us to take a good look at Hezonja as our young core develops together and if his breakout is permanent we can extend him again. I wouldn't want to see us throw too much money at him because there is always the risk that this breakout isn't permanent and his defensive liability becomes too significant to warrant being a starting player in this league. I do feel that Orlando have found the best position to get the most out of him by using him at power forward rather than small forward or shooting guard, but at the same time I have my doubts over whether he is a good long term fit at that position. So any contract we give him needs to be team friendly and potentially movable if this breakout isn't permanent.

Regarding the draft...

If we end up with the first overall pick I would take Ayton. He has everything to fit that "unicorn" term that people are throwing around these days. He has excellent athleticism and size, he's quick and strong, and he can impact the game at both ends with his offensive skill set and defensive skill set. The kid can even shoot 3 pointers which has a ton of value in the current NBA. I would not rule out the other players because I am a big believer that Michael Porter could be an excellent player at the next level, and likewise Bagley has the potential to be an excellent player at the next level. However, if we pick first, I would go for Ayton.

If we don't land the top pick and select around 3 or 4, then I would have no issue with us picking Jaren Jackson. He is another player that fits the "unicorn" term. He has excellent athleticism and size, not as quick or strong as Ayton at this point, but he has an excellent array of skills on the offensive and defensive end. He has a strong 3 point shooting percentage and is averaging over 3 blocks per game. I honestly think this kid is now a top five pick in this year's draft and is possibly deserving of the first overall pick discussion.

If those two are off the board and we are still picking top five, my preference would Bagley then Porter then Doncic.

If we are outside the top five I would target Bamba or one of the Bridges, but fingers crossed we land a top five pick because outside the top seven (Ayton, Jackson, Porter, Bagley, Doncic, Young, Bamba) I think there is then a drop off in talent. That's not to say we can't get a decent player because most years someone does tend to emerge that got ignored for whatever reason, but ideally we need to get that top five pick to hopefully five us another franchise cornerstone to partner with Fox.
Sign Hezonja then to be our back up PF getting 28mpg I don’t want a traditional PF back up anyways we need big wings like him.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#35
If we get the 1st pick we better announce Luka Doncic as our pick on draft lottery



Sign Hezonja then to be our back up PF getting 28mpg I don’t want a traditional PF back up anyways we need big wings like him.
I think one of the reasons that Hezonja has struggled to find his way in Orlando is that he has been jerked around quite a bit there. They've played him at shooting guard, small forward, and power forward. In one regard it makes him an attractive player because of his versatility, but on the other hand, that's a tough way to start your journey in the NBA. Regardless, he looks like he's taken a step forward, and maybe the Kings can reap the benefits without going through the rookie development process.

Sometimes rebuilding a team means being ready to jump on opportunities when they present themselves. Meaning you need to be able to have capspace, and roster spots available, or be in a position where you can create those things quickly. Danny Ainge has become quite good at it.
 
#36
Well the first thing I'll say, is if the shoe fits, then wear it. However, I wasn't pointing the finger at you. Matter of fact I think most people on the forum respect Vlade. But if you don't think there are some that think he's not bright enough to be the GM, then your living in La La land. However, I think it's a very small group. I've always respected your opinion. I don't always agree with it, and I'm sure you don't always agree with mine. As far as Vlade's plan goes, I do think he has an overall blueprint of what he's trying to do. But as I said, nothing stays the same and you have to readjust along the way.

You may have you sights set on the summer of 2019, and suddenly you see an opportunity that might be there for you in the summer of 2018. So you make some moves that people might not understand at the time, but you do so with the idea of hopefully capitalizing on it. I have no way of proving it of course. It could just be a matter of realizing your mistake, and trying to move on from it. I certainly think that's the case with Papagiannis. He was a mistake to begin with, and with the league's new concept of what the modern center looks like, the mistake became more obvious.

You point out that we've been on this treadmill for a long time now. I agree, but to be fair to Vlade, he hasn't been. He's the new arrival, and he's not responsible for anything that proceeded him. I know that doesn't help in the patience dept, but facts are facts. I hate to go over old ground, but the evidence is that Vlade wanted to trade Cousins almost from the beginning and start over. Vivek had a different vision, and Vlade tried to do his bidding. He tried to bring in veteran players to support Cousins. Unfortunately it didn't work. This time around, the veteran players were brought in for an entirely different reason, and for the most part, I think it's worked. Not with win's, but with bringing along the young players

As for acquiring a star, I think you hope that one of maybe two of the players you draft will become a star. The Warriors are a good model. Yes, they did attract Kevin Durant, but they had already won a championship without him, and did it with homegrown stars. Sacramento isn't LA. If were to attract a big star, we need to be an attractive place to play. We have to look like a young team on the way up. You can't do that overnight, which is why Vlade singled out the summer of 2019. That's when players like Fox and Bog's etc. will have a couple of years experience, and we'll have over 60 mil in capspace.

There are a lot of if's in that scenario, but it is a plan, and for it to work, you have to stick with it until it's conclusion. That's something the team hasn't done in the last ten years. Or we can fire Vlade and Joerger and keep doing what we've been doing. Keep those revolving doors spinning.
Now that you mention it... I do live in La La Land! Which probably explains a lot. :) But I didn't grow up here so there's still hope of a full recovery.

There are probably people who think Vlade isn't smart enough to be a GM just as there are people who thought Cousins was some kind of monster despite all evidence to the contrary. I try to ignore those people though and engage in conversation with the adults in the room. I'm not committed to the "Vlade is a bad GM" belief just yet but I do like to play my hunches and unfortunately that's how things seem to be leaning for me right now. I'm nothing if not flexible though. I'll revise my opinion as the facts change. If this is step one of a multi-year plan I don't see it yet but I'll give Vlade credit when and if he deserves it.

For now, I'm confused about how these most recent moves contribute to the longterm goal. If the plan was to build for the 2019 off-season why did we need to get rid of George Hill now? He was only going to be owed $1 million after next season which makes him a prime trade candidate for next season's trade deadline. And we have no pick next year so we could probably use Hill's leadership and jumpshot off the bench. This strikes me as a move that makes us worse next season without any assets coming back. I suppose we could use that cap space this summer to go after somebody and maybe we do have an inside track on Hezonja because of his relationship with Peja. I'm not ready to celebrate a victory that hasn't happened yet though.

And before we pencil in a franchise player from the draft we have to see where we end up. The worst teams are so closely packed right now we could easily Kangz our way into a late lotto pick in the last month and a half. It's happened before and the tank race this year is shaping up to be epic. If we could some how turn this into an actual foot race where the GMs have to do their best to finish last I think it could actually be worth it but watching world class athletes attempt to compete while their coaching staff and front offices do their best to sabotage them is a massive bummer every year. Seeing the biggest losers get rewarded on draft day while we hover constantly out of reach of the franchise changing talent isn't too fun either.

And what's downright depressing... Well, I've watched a lot of Detroit this year and Indiana and Boston and Washington. The negativity around the Kings has gotten so bad I just wanted to watch some good basketball again. And the thought that we could easily have been any of these teams with better management, better scouting, and yeah maybe one or two all-out tanks at the right time, that's depressing. I'm trying to burn the midnight lamp (Jimi Hendrix shout out!) but the oil is getting awfully low. And I've got to be honest, signing journeyman veterans and then buying them out or dumping them for cash considerations three years in a row is doing nothing for my confidence.
 

Mike

Bench
Contributor
#37
If we get the 1st pick we better announce Luka Doncic as our pick on draft lottery

Sign Hezonja then to be our back up PF getting 28mpg I don’t want a traditional PF back up anyways we need big wings like him.
I would have no issue with Doncic being our pick. My only concern with him is whether we will be able to find his best position. I've seen people tip him to play 1-3 and possibly even the 4. Now that versatility is great, but we also had that in Tyreke because he spent time at 1-3 and we never found how best to utilise him. Maybe Doncic is different and we'll find his best position or he'll simply excel in any position, but there are pros and cons to Doncic at each position. There's no question that he's talented and would be a good addition, but we'd need to find his position and not mess him around like Evans or like Hezonja has been with the Magic.

I agree that as a backup PF Hezonja has value and would be a good addition. However I'd be concerned with him as our starter unless we had very good defensive players in the front court with him to cover his shortcomings.
 
#38
I’ve been watching Hezonja highlights and I’m not sure what it is about him (maybe the form in his shot) but he’s reminding me of Peja himself. I’m sold on giving him big money and I think aside from the Peja connection he might see an opportunity to be the man here with his experience over and grow with our young core. I would think that has got to be attractive to a young player like him that is not exactly in the best position in Orlando at the moment, it all makes too much sense
 
#39
KIngs should really go After Capela. He's restricted. But, I don't see Hou offering him a good deal. They have a lot of huge salaries to pay next year. Kings should offer him a 5/75 . He's really been playing amazing over the past couple months.
 
#40
KIngs should really go After Capela. He's restricted. But, I don't see Hou offering him a good deal. They have a lot of huge salaries to pay next year. Kings should offer him a 5/75 . He's really been playing amazing over the past couple months.
Good point, but I think they still match anything on Capela. Not that I don't think he's a great player, but he's a bit of fools gold to me because he's getting fed by 2 of the best playmakers in basketball on offense. But he's for sure someone I'd be more than willing to drop 20+mil/year on.
 
#41
Just on Hezonja, for what its worth, he was considered a more talented junior than Bogdanović ever was. He left Croatia very young for Barcelona (IMHO not the best move) and then went on to the NBA.

I am not susprised that he is having a bit of a break out patch. His development has been a bit stagnated ever since he left Croatia. I think he might have left a year or two too early.

With the emphasis on player development now being a key concept with the Kings, I would be very happy if we sign Hezonja in the offseason. I think he could really take his game to another level for us with another offseason and a concentrated development from our coaching staff and veterans.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#42
Now that you mention it... I do live in La La Land! Which probably explains a lot. :) But I didn't grow up here so there's still hope of a full recovery.

There are probably people who think Vlade isn't smart enough to be a GM just as there are people who thought Cousins was some kind of monster despite all evidence to the contrary. I try to ignore those people though and engage in conversation with the adults in the room. I'm not committed to the "Vlade is a bad GM" belief just yet but I do like to play my hunches and unfortunately that's how things seem to be leaning for me right now. I'm nothing if not flexible though. I'll revise my opinion as the facts change. If this is step one of a multi-year plan I don't see it yet but I'll give Vlade credit when and if he deserves it.

For now, I'm confused about how these most recent moves contribute to the longterm goal. If the plan was to build for the 2019 off-season why did we need to get rid of George Hill now? He was only going to be owed $1 million after next season which makes him a prime trade candidate for next season's trade deadline. And we have no pick next year so we could probably use Hill's leadership and jumpshot off the bench. This strikes me as a move that makes us worse next season without any assets coming back. I suppose we could use that cap space this summer to go after somebody and maybe we do have an inside track on Hezonja because of his relationship with Peja. I'm not ready to celebrate a victory that hasn't happened yet though.

And before we pencil in a franchise player from the draft we have to see where we end up. The worst teams are so closely packed right now we could easily Kangz our way into a late lotto pick in the last month and a half. It's happened before and the tank race this year is shaping up to be epic. If we could some how turn this into an actual foot race where the GMs have to do their best to finish last I think it could actually be worth it but watching world class athletes attempt to compete while their coaching staff and front offices do their best to sabotage them is a massive bummer every year. Seeing the biggest losers get rewarded on draft day while we hover constantly out of reach of the franchise changing talent isn't too fun either.

And what's downright depressing... Well, I've watched a lot of Detroit this year and Indiana and Boston and Washington. The negativity around the Kings has gotten so bad I just wanted to watch some good basketball again. And the thought that we could easily have been any of these teams with better management, better scouting, and yeah maybe one or two all-out tanks at the right time, that's depressing. I'm trying to burn the midnight lamp (Jimi Hendrix shout out!) but the oil is getting awfully low. And I've got to be honest, signing journeyman veterans and then buying them out or dumping them for cash considerations three years in a row is doing nothing for my confidence.
Since Vlade isn't returning my calls, all I can do is speculate about the Hill situation. I think the simplest answer might be, that they felt they didn't need him anymore, and he was taking minutes away from young players they'd rather give them to. I think they felt that Fox was progressing faster than they thought he would, and they needed to increase his minutes. The only way to do that, and still give Hill significant minutes, was to play them together. That mean't cutting back on Bogdanovic's minutes, which they wanted to increase, and Buddy's minutes, which they probably wanted to increase.

And then, you also had Malachi sitting on the bench twiddling his thumbs. So you can live with the situation, or you can try and change the situation, if possible. So when the Cav's came calling, why not? You solve the minutes problem to some extent, pick up a few million bucks, and you gain some capspace in the coming offseason to take advantage of whatever presents itself. I think it's fair to argue that maybe they shouldn't have signed Hill in the first place, but there was no way to predict Fox's and Bogdanovic's progress in advance. It's like I said, you layout a plan, but when situations change, sometimes you make adjustments to the plan.

To be honest, I'm more worried about GM's that aren't willing to adjust regardless of the situation.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#43
Good point, but I think they still match anything on Capela. Not that I don't think he's a great player, but he's a bit of fools gold to me because he's getting fed by 2 of the best playmakers in basketball on offense. But he's for sure someone I'd be more than willing to drop 20+mil/year on.
Trust me, Capela is going nowhere. Waste of time pursuing him.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#44
Just on Hezonja, for what its worth, he was considered a more talented junior than Bogdanović ever was. He left Croatia very young for Barcelona (IMHO not the best move) and then went on to the NBA.

I am not susprised that he is having a bit of a break out patch. His development has been a bit stagnated ever since he left Croatia. I think he might have left a year or two too early.

With the emphasis on player development now being a key concept with the Kings, I would be very happy if we sign Hezonja in the offseason. I think he could really take his game to another level for us with another offseason and a concentrated development from our coaching staff and veterans.
I don't want to be the pot calling the kettle black, but the Magic are a mess, and have been for quite a while. As I stated earlier, I think that Hezonja was jerked around so much there that it really set back his development. So, once again, I'm on board with going after him. He's talented, and he's young. Exactly the kind of player the Kings should be looking for.
 
#45
I don't want to be the pot calling the kettle black, but the Magic are a mess, and have been for quite a while. As I stated earlier, I think that Hezonja was jerked around so much there that it really set back his development. So, once again, I'm on board with going after him. He's talented, and he's young. Exactly the kind of player the Kings should be looking for.
And he'll get a chance to make some money, potential starting job AND a mentor he trusts in Peja. Think a lot of chips are lining up for Hezonja to come here next year.
 
#46
Trust me, Capela is going nowhere. Waste of time pursuing him.
Yeah I don't think so either. He's absolutely tailor-made to be a C for Paul and Harden. Just saying I don't think he'd be AS good elsewhere as he is right now in Houston. Just an amazing compliment to their playmakers.
 
#47
And he'll get a chance to make some money, potential starting job AND a mentor he trusts in Peja. Think a lot of chips are lining up for Hezonja to come here next year.
I don't think he will be getting any stupid money but I do think he will get some good offers out there. I could see Kings being one of those teams but a lot of that will depend on what happens on draft night.

If Kings get a SF in the draft, then all of a sudden the need for Hezonja is not really there and you are better off spending money somewhere else. However, if the Kings get a big as I think it most likely going to be the case, then Hezonja should become a primary target based on the value for money / upside proposition.
 
#49
Just on Hezonja, for what its worth, he was considered a more talented junior than Bogdanović ever was. He left Croatia very young for Barcelona (IMHO not the best move) and then went on to the NBA.

I am not susprised that he is having a bit of a break out patch. His development has been a bit stagnated ever since he left Croatia. I think he might have left a year or two too early.

With the emphasis on player development now being a key concept with the Kings, I would be very happy if we sign Hezonja in the offseason. I think he could really take his game to another level for us with another offseason and a concentrated development from our coaching staff and veterans.
I’m guessing if he came he would be Peja’s personal project.
 
#50
I’m guessing if he came he would be Peja’s personal project.
I think there would be more people than just Peja working with him but given that we would want him to play SF in a similar fashion that Peja played the position (i.e. defend, spread the floor, keep moving to get open, cut etc..) I could think of a far worse mentors to have.

Hezonja has the potential to be a Peja like player, i.e. player of the same caliber as Peja and have similar sort of career. He happens to play the position we have a need at, provides the sort of thing that is valued in todays game (long range shooting) and can also play some PF in smaller line up (like Peja did at times).

Overall the fit is there, talent is there, we are probably willing to back ourselves in to bring the best out of Hezonja and the price is probably going to be right for us. It all depends on what happens at draft time. If we draft a big (please let it be Ayton) then Hezonja makes so much sense for this team. Not only in terms of fit (position, age, game attributes) but also already established relationships here.
 
#51
I think there would be more people than just Peja working with him but given that we would want him to play SF in a similar fashion that Peja played the position (i.e. defend, spread the floor, keep moving to get open, cut etc..) I could think of a far worse mentors to have.

Hezonja has the potential to be a Peja like player, i.e. player of the same caliber as Peja and have similar sort of career. He happens to play the position we have a need at, provides the sort of thing that is valued in todays game (long range shooting) and can also play some PF in smaller line up (like Peja did at times).

Overall the fit is there, talent is there, we are probably willing to back ourselves in to bring the best out of Hezonja and the price is probably going to be right for us. It all depends on what happens at draft time. If we draft a big (please let it be Ayton) then Hezonja makes so much sense for this team. Not only in terms of fit (position, age, game attributes) but also already established relationships here.
You and I can pray together for an 15 man roster that looks like:

WCS, Ayton, KK
Giles, Skal, ZBo
Hezonja, Jackson, Caboclo
Bogdan, Heild, Shumpert
Fox, Mason, Temple.

If we end up with that lineup we could be well positioned for the 2019 free agent market.
 
#52
You and I can pray together for an 15 man roster that looks like:

WCS, Ayton, KK
Giles, Skal, ZBo
Hezonja, Jackson, Caboclo
Bogdan, Heild, Shumpert
Fox, Mason, Temple.

If we end up with that lineup we could be well positioned for the 2019 free agent market.
While I don't think we will go with a 15 man roster I can certainly get on board the starting 5 of

Ayton
Giles
Hezonja
Bogdanovic
Fox

in a couple of years time.

I still think that there is a reasonable chance that WCS gets shipped out if Kings draft Ayton and Giles really is as advertised. In that case, I can definitely see us bringing back Kosta as a veteran mentor to Ayton who can start until we bring Ayton along slowly (similar to what we did with Hill and Fox this season)

I highly doubt Caboclo will be back next year and I personally would love Temple back but I am not sure that will happen especially with Shumpert unlikely to opt out of his deal.
 
#53
I don't think he will be getting any stupid money but I do think he will get some good offers out there. I could see Kings being one of those teams but a lot of that will depend on what happens on draft night.

If Kings get a SF in the draft, then all of a sudden the need for Hezonja is not really there and you are better off spending money somewhere else. However, if the Kings get a big as I think it most likely going to be the case, then Hezonja should become a primary target based on the value for money / upside proposition.
Have not been following this much, but do recall seeing that his major improvement has come after he moved to play the 4.

If so, then he might look for more time at that position. It could still work for us, since Giles is still a big unknown, and Skal has still to show any consistency. However, most of our talk seems to be about him playing the 3. Do wonder if that's a sentiment he shares, particularly if he has been doing better as a PF.
 
#54
Have not been following this much, but do recall seeing that his major improvement has come after he moved to play the 4.

If so, then he might look for more time at that position. It could still work for us, since Giles is still a big unknown, and Skal has still to show any consistency. However, most of our talk seems to be about him playing the 3. Do wonder if that's a sentiment he shares, particularly if he has been doing better as a PF.
Hezonja has played SG and SF all his life. PF is a recent thing in smaller line ups. He is not going to be playing on a winning team if he thinks he is a PF.

I don’t profess to know what his thinking is but I suspect he would not be too fussed what position he plays as long as he gets consistent playing time and is allowed to grow out there.
 
#55
Hezonja has played SG and SF all his life. PF is a recent thing in smaller line ups. He is not going to be playing on a winning team if he thinks he is a PF.

I don’t profess to know what his thinking is but I suspect he would not be too fussed what position he plays as long as he gets consistent playing time and is allowed to grow out there.
I doubt he cares where he plays as long as it isn’t center
 

Mike

Bench
Contributor
#56
Hezonja has played SG and SF all his life. PF is a recent thing in smaller line ups. He is not going to be playing on a winning team if he thinks he is a PF.

I don’t profess to know what his thinking is but I suspect he would not be too fussed what position he plays as long as he gets consistent playing time and is allowed to grow out there.
It depends on the team. For instance if you were to put him on the Clippers next to a center like Jordan, then his defense, rebounding and shot blocking can make up for Hezonja's deficiencies. Hezonja would then add floor spacing and offer a mismatch against opposition PFs on the offense end. Grantsd you might need a good defensive small forward as well, but in the right scenario Hezonja can play PF on a good team, just don't expect much of a contribution on defense.
 
#57
It depends on the team. For instance if you were to put him on the Clippers next to a center like Jordan, then his defense, rebounding and shot blocking can make up for Hezonja's deficiencies. Hezonja would then add floor spacing and offer a mismatch against opposition PFs on the offense end. Grantsd you might need a good defensive small forward as well, but in the right scenario Hezonja can play PF on a good team, just don't expect much of a contribution on defense.
That's precisely why you don't play him at PF. You need a bunch of variables around him to be correct for it to work and even with those variables in place, he's still going to get destroyed by Griffin, Davis, etc.
 
#58
Hezonja at PF only works if the other team is going small....that just can't be a long term core option unless all the deficiencies are made up in other ways with the surrounding players......then again, this is something George Karl would do but surround him with Rondo, Collison and then Bellinelli at SF in a super small lineup trying to outscore the other team and outpace them.
 

Mike

Bench
Contributor
#59
That's precisely why you don't play him at PF. You need a bunch of variables around him to be correct for it to work and even with those variables in place, he's still going to get destroyed by Griffin, Davis, etc.
True, but his breakout has come while starting at PF. I posted his season stats in this thread earlier on and they do show that on the offensive end he's doing well at PF. Is it his best position? Maybe if you value offense over defense and want him playing the position where he is most efficient. But is it ideal to start him there? Probably not if you value defense and want your team to play tough on that end to try and restrict teams to 100 points or less and go against the grain.

Would I sign him? Not as a starter because i would be concerned about his viability starting at PF long term. But I would consider signing him to come off the bench and start games where there is a favorable matchup at PF. Though it would have to be at a team friendly price.
 
#60
True, but his breakout has come while starting at PF. I posted his season stats in this thread earlier on and they do show that on the offensive end he's doing well at PF. Is it his best position? Maybe if you value offense over defense and want him playing the position where he is most efficient. But is it ideal to start him there? Probably not if you value defense and want your team to play tough on that end to try and restrict teams to 100 points or less and go against the grain.

Would I sign him? Not as a starter because i would be concerned about his viability starting at PF long term. But I would consider signing him to come off the bench and start games where there is a favorable matchup at PF. Though it would have to be at a team friendly price.
Yes, I appreciated your breakdown of his performance by position, and I wonder why other posters seem to just blow by those numbers and assume we should acquire Hezonja to play SF, when we should stop and think about why he finally seemed to break out playing at PF. I haven't watched the Magic much this season, so I'd be curious to hear from those who have.

Some are saying the team should look into Hezonja only if the team doesn't land a SF, but I'll admit to being intrigued by a "positionless" lineup of Fox/Bogi/Doncic/Hezonja and WCS (with his switching on D) or Giles (with his alleged passing prowess) at the 5.

In terms of Hezonja being "bullied" by other PFs -- in the Western conference (I'm not going to get too worked up about matchups we'll see at most twice), it's mostly, who, Aldridge, Millsap and Davis? And that's assuming the Pelicans re-sign Boogie or get another center to keep Davis at PF.
 
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