Could Martin be our Jamal Crawford/Ginobili?

[OptimusRhyme]

If Martin does in fact end up staying does anyone else agree that he would be a great 6th man?

Its fair to say hes a one dimentional scorer. But he is a superstar in that dimention.
I think If we started Beno,Reke,Casspi,Jt,Hawes as the starters it would even out the scoring and shots and every other player would feel more involved.
When Kmart and Reke are both on its just too much scoring from two players and not enough from the other three players on the court.

We've already proven we can compete with the best teams with a Beno,Reke,Casspi,JT,Hawes lineup. so thats really not an arguument against this idea.

So why not bring a super sub off the bench that can deliver a lot of points in a short period of time? He can change up the pace of the game instantly when brought in and he is a great fall back scoring option if we start out flat. We would have to cut Kevins minutes back but I think thats what this team needs. Kevin is just too deffiecient in other areas to keep on the floor for 40 minutes.

This would Increase the morale/chemistry of the overall team IMO. Beno would get his starting position back and could help get the rest of the team involved early. Thats something Kev really dosent have in his genes.

This would help Casspi, JT & Hawes because with Beno on the floor Im sure those three would be included in the offense much more then when Kevins on. I noticed our players confidence comes from when they are scoring well and if they aren't scoring well they lose alot of confidence and every other aspect of their game suffers for some reason.

The kicker is kmart is a 11 *million dollar player.. so... can that high priced of a player come off the bench? can he go from golden boy starter to super sub? would he accept that role?

I remember a cuple years ago when kevin got back from an injury and we brought him off the bench for like 5 games or so... and the dude was ripping it up. He would come in and produce the same scoring if not better in shorter spurts.

Its just an idea and i dunno if it would fly with martin.. or if westphal would have the balls to experiment something like that.. but i really do think it would be a good move for the team to atleast experiment with.

maybe im just delusional from all the losses tho.

 

[FakeInjury]

I would rather him not be our sixth man, because he will feel even more pressure to shoot unrepentantly.

 

[rainmaker]

First, I thought Kevin was making 11M per. Thats too much for a 6th man. IMO, Kevin is a starting sg, no question about it. The question is whether or not he fits with the future of the Kings.

Realistically, I don't see Kevin buying into a 6th man role, nor should he. If we're going to keep him, you start him, and hope for the best between he and Tyreke. Last night they played well together. If we decide to keep Kevin, the attention goes straight to the front court, because we need help there asap. I could see Petrie trying to add a proven big at the deadline, with a combination of Kt's expiring, Noc, and either JT or Hawes. The idea there would be to see how Tyreke and Kevin can play with at least a decent nba frontline. Personally, I think it might work. If we had a pf like Millsap(just an example), in addition to a Tyreke and Kevin backcourt, that could prove to be a good combination. Or if we were able to add a Dalembert/Okafor type, that could really change the dynamic of this team. It would be interesting to see a Kev/Tyreke backcourt paired with a proven big.

If we decide Kevin isn't our future sg, then you move him before sending him to a 6th man role. If we can't acquire another big without including Kevin in the package, then we move him as our most valuable trade asset, as that might be the best way to fix our frontcourt problems.

Part of me wants to see Tyreke and Kevin have a chance to play with a real nba frontline. I'm not sure how fair it is to judge them when they don't get any help whatsoever from our pf and c positions. Jt and Spencer are the most inconsistent starting bigs in the nba, and with the way they are both playing, I'm not sure any nba backcourt could win with them down low.

But the other side of me wants Donte and Omri out there, 30+ mins a night each. That won't happen with Kevin here. Is that Kevins fault? No. But Omri and Donte are part of the longterm future of this team. Hypothetically, if we started both Donte and Omri, that helps their development, but puts our most valuable asset on the bench, while not solving our frontcourt problem.

It's a tough problem to have. I don't think it's fair to trully evaluate a Kevin/Tyreke backcourt when they have to step out there on a nightly basis with the beastly frontline of JT and Hawes. At the same time, Kevin might be our best chance at fixing the frontcourt problem. He also is hurting the development of Omri and Donte, although Omri is simply missing shots he was hitting earlier in the season. Kevin is having more of an effect on Donte's minutes, but we could still find time for him if coach wasn't play Ime and Noc as much. So having Ime and Noc on the roster is also hurting the development of Omri and Donte. I just wonder how this team would be, if Omri and Donte got all of the minutes Noc and Ime are taking up right now, and we added a qualtiy big in exchange of KTs expiring and Noc. That way Tyreke and Kevin get a chance to be evaluated by playing with a quality big, Omri or Donte starts, and the other gets 25+mins a night off the bench without Ime and Noc eating up minutes.

 

[NoBonus]

Did someone just say too much scoring?

 

[Mitch Richmond]

I proposed this idea weeks before he came back on this board and got flamed. K-mart is nothing but a scorer. He is a perfect 6th man. He'd never accept that role on our team however, and "gets paid too much to be a sixth man"... whatever that means.

 

[Bricklayer]

Did someone just say too much scoring?

There is such a thing. Or too much shooting. One of the reasons Sportscenter/casual fans really don't get basketball. Scoring is the one thing in the world you need the least of. You can never have too many defenders. Never have too many rebounders. But there is only 1 ball, and you can most certianly have too many guys who need it. You need enough. Having a little spare is good. having too much is disruptive for everyone.

As for the proposal -- in theory, maybe. Ben Gordon style. Its an idea at least to solve the crunch. But he only plays 1 position, which is a problem for a bencher, and the money and ego/expectations say this is probably not realistic. Maybe if we were a title team like the Spurs you could make it work. Maybe. But realistically for us and Kevin at this point in his career? Highly unlikely.

 

[swisshh]

I think Kevin's future in the NBA at this point is as a sixth man scorer for a good team. For awhile, people thought he might show a dynamic offensive game or improve his defense, develop a clutchness from that Spurs finish or just have the game dominating presence of a Reggie Miller/Ray Allen, but I don't think any of those things have happened. That leaves being a deadly shooter/scorer.

 

[PurpleHaze]

First, I thought Kevin was making 11M per. Thats too much for a 6th man.

Manu Ginobili is making just under $11M this season. I think it's final year of $52M contract he signed in '04. If K-Mart could provide the same kind of top notch 6th man play that Manu does for Spurs I'd have no problem with him in that role.

 

[ElRey]

I think Kevin's future in the NBA at this point is as a sixth man scorer for a good team. For awhile, people thought he might show a dynamic offensive game or improve his defense, develop a clutchness from that Spurs finish or just have the game dominating presence of a Reggie Miller/Ray Allen, but I don't think any of those things have happened. That leaves being a deadly shooter/scorer.

I agree with you completely swissh, and the general idea of this thread. Kevin Martin is nothing but a scorer and will be great as a 6th man instant offense type of guy. I think the comparison with Jamal Crawford is almost right now. Ginobilli is a different story; he's actually pretty clutch and can sometimes win games himself. If Kevin even had half the intensity/passion of Ginobilli, we'd be set.

 

[rainmaker]

Manu Ginobili is making just under $11M this season. I think it's final year of $52M contract he signed in '04. If K-Mart could provide the same kind of top notch 6th man play that Manu does for Spurs I'd have no problem with him in that role.

kevin as a 6th man on the Kings is different than Ginibli being a 6th man on the Spurs. The Spurs go deep into the playoffs on a yearly basis, and have won mulitple championships with Ginobli filling that role. The Kings are a lottery team.
You can afford to have an 11M player come off the bench when you are a championship contender, have an allstar pg, a HOF pf, and a system everyone buys into. The Kings aren't in a position to spend that kind of money on a 6th man, nor do I think they should when making the playoffs is out of the question. If we don't start Kevin, we have to trade him, for a big. He's more valuable to this team as a trade chip than a 6th man. If Kevin was on a championship contender, I could see a scenario where being the 6th man could work well. But not here, not now.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think Kevin's future in the NBA at this point is as a sixth man scorer for a good team. For awhile, people thought he might show a dynamic offensive game or improve his defense, develop a clutchness from that Spurs finish or just have the game dominating presence of a Reggie Miller/Ray Allen, but I don't think any of those things have happened. That leaves being a deadly shooter/scorer.

He's still a mid 20s type scorer -- that type of guy will remain a starter until later in his career when he loses a step. Always be someboyd out there who thinks they need the offense.

 

[Sac.1989]

First, I thought Kevin was making 11M per. Part of me wants to see Tyreke and Kevin have a chance to play with a real nba frontline. I'm not sure how fair it is to judge them when they don't get any help whatsoever from our pf and c positions. Jt and Spencer are the most inconsistent starting bigs in the nba, and with the way they are both playing, I'm not sure any nba backcourt could win with them down low.

couldnt say it better myself. GP is a patient man, im sure we will get a big before we blow up our backcourt

 

[tyrant]

i thought he coudlve been used as a ginobili, but that would require scoring in streaks of 15 or more and dunking on someone purposely

 

[kupman]

I have said it before, I guess I will say it again. If coming off the bench can work for the Celtics and Havlicek, there is no reason it cannot work for Martin. He would be a great boost for the team in the mid to late 1st quarter. he is also a great guy to have on the floor when we need points fast.

I think this is how Martin could be best used - 20-25 minutes per game. Maybe he gives a point for every minute that he plays. I really do not think that he plays good enough defense to be on the floor 35-40 minutes/game. I also do not think that he should be on the floor with Beno as the two do not look together.

..and hey, both Martin and Havlichek are from Ohio so maybe it was predestined to be this way.

 

[rainmaker]

I have said it before, I guess I will say it again. If coming off the bench can work for the Celtics and Havlicek, there is no reason it cannot work for Martin. He would be a great boost for the team in the mid to late 1st quarter. he is also a great guy to have on the floor when we need points fast.

I think this is how Martin could be best used - 20-25 minutes per game. Maybe he gives a point for every minute that he plays. I really do not think that he plays good enough defense to be on the floor 35-40 minutes/game. I also do not think that he should be on the floor with Beno as the two do not look together.

..and hey, both Martin and Havlichek are from Ohio so maybe it was predestined to be this way.

It worked for the Celtics, and it worked for the Spurs, because both team had very good, if not great, frontcourt players. We're talking HOF's. The Kings have arguably the worst startng pf/c combo in the league. Thats not a knock on Jt and Spencer, because they will develop, but right now they don't offer much on a consistent basis at all.

In this situation, Kevin is much more valuable to us in acquiring a big man than filling the 6th man role. If we were a championship contender, like the Celtics were when Havlichek played for them, then I would be all for it. But we are far from that point, and in this case, we can't afford to have an 11M 6th man with our frontline producing the way it is. If we decide Kevin isn't our future starting sg, we HAVE to use him in a trade to help our frontline.

 

[venom_7]

You kind of have to have a Parker/Duncan/Jefferson if you want to have a Ginobli.

You have to have a Johnson/Smith/Williams/Horford if you want him to be a Crawford.

We have Tyreke.... Beno? Come on. Casspi? Maybe one day. Hawes/JT?

So we have Tyreke. and Kevin. That is all.

 

[Reem]

If Martin does in fact end up staying does anyone else agree that he would be a great 6th man?

Its fair to say hes a one dimentional scorer. But he is a superstar in that dimention.
I think If we started Beno,Reke,Casspi,Jt,Hawes as the starters it would even out the scoring and shots and every other player would feel more involved.
When Kmart and Reke are both on its just too much scoring from two players and not enough from the other three players on the court.

We've already proven we can compete with the best teams with a Beno,Reke,Casspi,JT,Hawes lineup. so thats really not an arguument against this idea.

So why not bring a super sub off the bench that can deliver a lot of points in a short period of time? He can change up the pace of the game instantly when brought in and he is a great fall back scoring option if we start out flat. We would have to cut Kevins minutes back but I think thats what this team needs. Kevin is just too deffiecient in other areas to keep on the floor for 40 minutes.

This would Increase the morale/chemistry of the overall team IMO. Beno would get his starting position back and could help get the rest of the team involved early. Thats something Kev really dosent have in his genes.

This would help Casspi, JT & Hawes because with Beno on the floor Im sure those three would be included in the offense much more then when Kevins on. I noticed our players confidence comes from when they are scoring well and if they aren't scoring well they lose alot of confidence and every other aspect of their game suffers for some reason.

The kicker is kmart is a 11 *million dollar player.. so... can that high priced of a player come off the bench? can he go from golden boy starter to super sub? would he accept that role?

I remember a cuple years ago when kevin got back from an injury and we brought him off the bench for like 5 games or so... and the dude was ripping it up. He would come in and produce the same scoring if not better in shorter spurts.

Its just an idea and i dunno if it would fly with martin.. or if westphal would have the balls to experiment something like that.. but i really do think it would be a good move for the team to atleast experiment with.

maybe im just delusional from all the losses tho.

the starting line up should be:
reke
martin
casspi
Greene
hawes

sergio should play a lot more
JT, brockman and noc should get in to make the foes feel some pain
may should get them the food after the win
I think beno is the same as martin, a scorer, not a PG, but not as good as martin, so he should be in the court just to give martin some rest
the same goes anybody else, they should play just to give the starters some rest, you need a clear hierarchy like in the lakers, it's always Kobe, pau, fisher, bynum and artest, even that Odom is a great player, he knows his role.

in the NBA coaches like the most talented players for every position, no metter if reke is more of a SG, he'll start as a PG every time because he's the most talent among the guards besides martin, so if you play with the most talented players Beno has no place in the starting line up.

 

[VF21]

the starting line up should be:
reke
martin
casspi
Greene
hawes

I actually like this lineup...especially if Greene remembers how big he really is.

sergio should play a lot more
JT, brockman and noc should get in to make the foes feel some pain
may should get them the food after the win
I think beno is the same as martin, a scorer, not a PG, but not as good as martin, so he should be in the court just to give martin some rest
the same goes anybody else, they should play just to give the starters some rest, you need a clear hierarchy like in the lakers, it's always Kobe, pau, fisher, bynum and artest, even that Odom is a great player, he knows his role.

I don't agree with all of this, however. Beno has, for the most part, done a pretty good job coming off the bench. He's a lot more consistent than Sergio...

in the NBA coaches like the most talented players for every position, no metter if reke is more of a SG, he'll start as a PG every time because he's the most talent among the guards besides martin, so if you play with the most talented players Beno has no place in the starting line up.

I'll agree that we don't need to see Beno starting.

 

[Lafayette]

All I know is that Martin is not a 6th man and there's no way a player can score to much, crazy talk here some times.