Comparing Ron and Peja post-trade

[Vlad]

Now that the all-star break is upon us, I thought it would be interesting to look at how Ron and Peja have performed on their new teams. From observing the team stats, it looks like the trade was good for both the Kings and Pacers.

Once Ron gains back his stamina and consistency with his shot, watch out.


Peja:
G: 7
Min: 34.6
FGM-FGA: 7.0-14.8 >> 47.1%
3PTM-3PTA: 2.9-6.9 >> 41.7%
FTM-FTA: 2.1-2.6 >> 83.3%
Off Rb: 1.6
Def Rb: 5.4
Tot Rb: 7.0
Ast: 1.9
TO: 1.4
Stl: 1.0
Blk: 0.3
PF: 2.4
PPG: 19.0


Ron:

G: 11
Min: 38.9
FGM-FGA: 6.8-17.8 >> 38.3%
3PTM-3PTA: 1.4-5.3 >> 25.9%
FTM-FTA: 3.1-4.0 >> 77.3%
Off Rb: 1.5
Def Rb: 4.5
Tot Rb: 6.1
Ast: 3.6
TO: 2.0
Stl: 2.9
Blk: 0.5
PF: 3.3
PPG: 18.1

Pacers without Peja:
W-L: 22-21
PPG: 93.0
PPG allowed: 91.7
Differential: +1.3

Pacers with Peja:
W-L: 5-2
PPG: 94.4
PPG allowed: 83.0
Differential: +11.4


Kings without Ron:
W-L: 18-24
PPG: 99.1
PPG allowed: 100.2
Differential: -1.1


Kings with Ron:
W-L: 6-5
PPG: 97.1
PPG allowed: 93
[FONT=&quot]Differential: +4.1[/FONT]

 

[HndsmCelt]

Thank You for illistrating just how misleading stats can be.

 

[RaY Z]

lol i rekon...

stats arent everything especially hwen it comes to ron...

defense, hustle, heart and most importantly leadership (something we have desperately needed since the departure of c-webb and vlade) cannot be shown in stats...

off game today but still above average on defense for ron..

keep it up ron!

GO KINGS!!!

 

[ParniValjak]

I think both teams would be happy with the trade. Indiana needed an offensive boost and they got it with Pedja who has been playing well for them.

We needed more defensive intensity and leadership and we got it. I don't think either team is regretting the trade at this point. Who knows what happens down the track.

 

[playmaker0017]

I don't think those stats were misleading at all.

Ron Artest is playing well for us and is still getting his game back together. He's inspiring us to play better - and we ARE playing better.

Peja needed a new beginning and a system where he was comfortable. He's got that and is delivering. Good for him. He deserves it.

Both teams are sitting back, kicking their feet up and smiling at the deal ... and that's awesome. Both teams got something good out of the deal.

 

[piksi]

I never understood how to compare apples and oranges

 

[SacDoug]

Stats are one of the few objective ways to evalute two or more things. You can claim that one particular set of stats is inconclusive but saying all stats are misleading is incorrect.

There is no question in my mind that the Kings are playing better with Ron on the team. Even if they only play .500 ball for the rest of the season, it is still an improvement over how they were playing with Peja.

 

[vj9999]

Peja is doing well in Indiana, Ron is doing well for us. No need to look at statistics to tell you that.

Peja wasn't the only problem on our team, but with Ron came a burst of energy and even if Ron was performing miserbly, if rest of our players are responding with energy and hustle, it is more than anything I can ask for.

Let's not have hight hopes for the rest of the season, but sit back and hopefully enjoy the ride.

 

[playmaker0017]

Not just is Peja doing well - isn't that record of 4-2 without Jermaine O'Neal?

That's pretty dang impressive, if you ask me.

 

[vj9999]

I never understood how to compare apples and oranges

You have to peel them, cut them i tiny slices, dip in water and sugar substance and let sit for a while.

After May you put a blindfold and taste both. Which ever one doesn't put you in a hospital is the better one.

 

[vj9999]

Not just is Peja doing well - isn't that record of 4-2 without Jermaine O'Neal?

That's pretty dang impressive, if you ask me.

Actually it is 5-2 since they beat Milwaukee last night. The misleading part may be that all 5 victories were at home. We are doing well at home as well.

 

[playmaker0017]

Actually it is 5-2 since they beat Milwaukee last night. The misleading part may be that all 5 victories were at home. We are doing well at home as well.

Yeah, but would we be doing that well if our best player was out?

That team lives and breathes Jermaine ONeal. It's a big loss to them.

Right now - their future looks brighter than ours. Not that I object to the trade in any way ... they just have the right pieces assembled. We seem to be a hodgepodge.

 

[vj9999]

Yeah, but would we be doing that well if our best player was out?

That team lives and breathes Jermaine ONeal. It's a big loss to them.

Right now - their future looks brighter than ours. Not that I object to the trade in any way ... they just have the right pieces assembled. We seem to be a hodgepodge.

Or maybe Ron was the only proble on their team and Peja wasn't the only problem on ours.

I saw few of their games and Pollard and Foster (and the rest of the team contributed as well) have been rebounding machines lately. I think Foster grabbed 10 offensive rebounds for them last night. MOre than Bucks as a team.

 

[Vlad]

Unfortunately for Ron, there aren't good statistics that measure what he does on defense. For example, I would be interested to know what the FG% of players he guards is, or the difference in FG% from when he is and isn't guarding them (since he almost always guards the opposing team's best player, looking at FG% alone might be misleading). Another stat I'd like to have is forced turnovers. We all already know that Ron is a thief (2.9 st), but I'd want to know how many turnovers he causes... I understand it would be difficult to measure, but I think Ron's forced turnover average would be among the league's highest.

 

[Vlad]

Actually it is 5-2 since they beat Milwaukee last night. The misleading part may be that all 5 victories were at home. We are doing well at home as well.

fixed it.

 

[Vlad]

Thank You for illistrating just how misleading stats can be.

The sample size is small, and stats measuring defensive ability in basketball are still primitive.

 

[Bricklayer]

Silly stats.

The Pacers aren't winning those games because of Peja. He has been important to them just in that he has filled the scoring void left by Jermaine, but the whole team has been playing better inspired ball, and its hardly because Peja is leading them to it. He's playing well, but while Ron's fingerprints are all over both the good and the bad of our turnaround, Peja is a 19 and 7 contributor for the Pacers, but not the source of theirs, unless you want to try to argue he is responsible for them allowing 8 fewer ppg WITHOUT Jermaine.

 

[nbrans]

I'm not going to make a ridiculous argument that the Pacers are better without Jermaine, but his replacements -- Pollard, Foster and Harrison -- are all better defenders than O'Neal. Peja is more than picking up the offensive slack while doing a pretty good job on defense and the boards. When you combine those factors, it helps explain why they're playing so well.

 

[AleksandarN]

Silly stats.

The Pacers aren't winning those games because of Peja. He has been important to them just in that he has filled the scoring void left by Jermaine, but the whole team has been playing better inspired ball, and its hardly because Peja is leading them to it. He's playing well, but while Ron's fingerprints are all over both the good and the bad of our turnaround, Peja is a 19 and 7 contributor for the Pacers, but not the source of theirs, unless you want to try to argue he is responsible for them allowing 8 fewer ppg WITHOUT Jermaine.

Can't really say that because once Pedja come on board the whole offense changed to accommodate his skills. The impact that Pedja is having on the team is pretty evident almost as much so as Ron is having for us. The Pacers are sharing the ball more then ever and that attitude of unselfishness can be related to how Pedja plays. Pedja is having as much impact on the offensive side of the ball for the Pacers as Ron is at the defensive side for us IMHO.

 

[Vlad]

Silly stats.

The Pacers aren't winning those games because of Peja. He has been important to them just in that he has filled the scoring void left by Jermaine, but the whole team has been playing better inspired ball, and its hardly because Peja is leading them to it. He's playing well, but while Ron's fingerprints are all over both the good and the bad of our turnaround, Peja is a 19 and 7 contributor for the Pacers, but not the source of theirs, unless you want to try to argue he is responsible for them allowing 8 fewer ppg WITHOUT Jermaine.

I don't think anyone is arguing that . SMALL SAMPLE SIZE!
It seems that the trade has really lifted a heavy weight off of the Pacers. They beat Detroit, and were very close to beating the Spurs.

It's interesting that Peja seems to be playing much better since the trade (he says that his "injuries have healed", maybe Larry Bird took him to the side and had a word...). Maybe Peja was pulling a Vince Carter and dogging it while he was here

 

[nbrans]

It's interesting that Peja seems to be playing much better since the trade (he says that his "injuries have healed", maybe Larry Bird took him to the side and had a word...). Maybe Peja was pulling a Vince Carter and dogging it while he was here

I think it's as simple as the fact that the Pacers are actively looking to set up Peja's offense, which he needs in order to succeed. The Kings were letting him fend for himself.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Peja was not pulling a "Vince". I wish everyone would stop making that comparison. Peja is a solid basketball player. It shouldn't be surprising that he is doing well. To give him all the credit for the Pacers "turnaround" is just silly. Personally, I give all the credit to Scot Pollard.

 

[playmaker0017]

For example, I would be interested to know what the FG% of players he guards is, or the difference in FG% from when he is and isn't guarding them (since he almost always guards the opposing team's best player, looking at FG% alone might be misleading). Another stat I'd like to have is forced turnovers. We all already know that Ron is a thief (2.9 st), but I'd want to know how many turnovers he causes... I understand it would be difficult to measure, but I think Ron's forced turnover average would be among the league's highest.

I don't think Ron's individual defensive stats on his man really shows the impact he has. He is such an amazing team defender that he makes EVERYONE better as a result. They can play a little looser and with better results. They know they are covered.

Ron, is holding his opponent to a relatively low PER effectiveness of 15.5. Reef continues his streak of impressive defensive play at holding his opponent to 14.3 PER. The big caveat is that Reef does it ON HIS MAN, while Artest is helping everyone's defensive effectiveness. Ron Artest's PER rating doesn't really show how he effects the entire game.

 

[bozzwell]

Pollard and Foster playing out of their minds has something to do with Indy's resurgence too. Removing all the uncertainty hanging over Indy players' collective heads by trading Ron helped too (number of players were rumoured to be in a package with Ron before the actual trade). Pedja's is still way below his career year numbers in scoring and just slightly over his career average (which factors in down year and years coming off the bench), but his rebs are on average best ever. So, he is doing his bit but he still looks like a more content and enthused Pedja of last two years then that "other" Pedja from his first 5 seasons in Sacto.

BTW, Foster had like 18 rebounds last night. That's not right.

 

[piksi]

Not just is Peja doing well - isn't that record of 4-2 without Jermaine O'Neal?

That's pretty dang impressive, if you ask me.

5 - 2

 

[3s4u]

What a waste?

G:11 Ron the "Messiah"

3PTA -3PTM: 5.3 - 1.4 = 25.9%

FGA - FGM: 17.8 - 6.8 = 38.3%


brick's lynch mob ???

 

[piksi]

Silly stats.

The Pacers aren't winning those games because of Peja. He has been important to them just in that he has filled the scoring void left by Jermaine, but the whole team has been playing better inspired ball, and its hardly because Peja is leading them to it. He's playing well, but while Ron's fingerprints are all over both the good and the bad of our turnaround, Peja is a 19 and 7 contributor for the Pacers, but not the source of theirs, unless you want to try to argue he is responsible for them allowing 8 fewer ppg WITHOUT Jermaine.

Only thing that is silly - to expect Pedja to ever get any credit from You

You had a team on a 6 games losing streak

You add a player X

You go 5-2 on the next 7 games and the whole team looks better, offense, defense, passing everything.

You add player X to a lineup consisting of a guy who was on the bench in Sacramento, the guy who was substitute in Indiana, The guy who played for Mobile Revelers 3-4 years ago and the guy that is a volume shooter as the 3rd option. The bench is full of rookies and no names.

When You have such situation and You go form just bad to beating good and great teams - player X sure as hell made the difference.

doesn't really matter - anyways - time will tell the rest but I expect an " I told You so" sooner or later down the road

 

[Vlad]

Peja was not pulling a "Vince". I wish everyone would stop making that comparison. Peja is a solid basketball player. It shouldn't be surprising that he is doing well. To give him all the credit for the Pacers "turnaround" is just silly. Personally, I give all the credit to Scot Pollard.

The comment I made about Peja pulling a "Vince" was a joke. I like Peja a lot, and I don't think he would ever do that.

And I do give Peja a lot (though not all) of the credit for turning the Pacers around. They needed his offense just as much as the Kings need Ron's defense.

 

[bigbadred00]

Do you honestly think Peja for 2 years ago, looked like anything like he did the past 1.5 seasons. If we had the Peja of 2 years ago, trust me, we wouldn't have been looking to move the guy. Thing is, we haven't had this guy. You might not want to blame it on him not trying as hard, but I'm pretty sure he's hustling more in Indy (rebounds make this evident) than he did in Sacto. Peja has and always will be a good player, thing is he wasn't a great player for this team the last year. If the player doesn't fit, you must "ship it." Peja might be the MVP, but if he doesn't bring a skill set we need (a way above average swing man on D) to make up for the lacking D we have on the perimeter, we have a problem.

I think Dallas finally found that out with what they've been doing. Yes, Nash and Finley are probally more skilled than Terry and Howard, well atleast Nash is better than Terry overall (MVP). If you want to argue (I don't think it's true at all) that Peja is more skillful than Artest, so be it. You can argue with me that Peja is the most skillful player in the league. Thing is, his skills were not required. They didn't fit the need of the team. Now back to Dallas, they have fit a bunch of players (well a lot of players) that more rightly complement DIrk although on Paper they seem less skillful than the Antoine Walker, Nash, Jamison team they had in the past, which was better on Paper. Peja on the Kings is better on Paper. We saw the results first hand, they didn't add up to well, anything.

 

[piksi]

Do you honestly think Peja for 2 years ago, looked like anything like he did the past 1.5 seasons. If we had the Peja of 2 years ago, trust me, we wouldn't have been looking to move the guy. Thing is, we haven't had this guy. You might not want to blame it on him not trying as hard, but I'm pretty sure he's hustling more in Indy (rebounds make this evident) than he did in Sacto. Peja has and always will be a good player, thing is he wasn't a great player for this team the last year. If the player doesn't fit, you must "ship it." Peja might be the MVP, but if he doesn't bring a skill set we need (a way above average swing man on D) to make up for the lacking D we have on the perimeter, we have a problem.

I think Dallas finally found that out with what they've been doing. Yes, Nash and Finley are probally more skilled than Terry and Howard, well atleast Nash is better than Terry overall (MVP). If you want to argue (I don't think it's true at all) that Peja is more skillful than Artest, so be it. You can argue with me that Peja is the most skillful player in the league. Thing is, his skills were not required. They didn't fit the need of the team. Now back to Dallas, they have fit a bunch of players (well a lot of players) that more rightly complement DIrk although on Paper they seem less skillful than the Antoine Walker, Nash, Jamison team they had in the past, which was better on Paper. Peja on the Kings is better on Paper. We saw the results first hand, they didn't add up to well, anything.

well I was watching Pacers to see wheather Pedja was done as a player or wheather he was done with Kings and it seams to be the latter