Comparing Ron and Peja post-trade

[VF21]

I honestly think we're seeing "new player syndrome" in Indiana. Peja is happier there, he wants to try hard to make it work, etc. If it gets him back to where he was pre-soap opera drama here, then more power to him.

I honestly think we're seeing "player resurrection syndrome" in Sacramento. Ron is playing again, he's determined to make this work, and he brings an intensity to the game that we have been sorely needing.

At this point, I don't give a rat's patoot about their respective statistics. All I know for sure is it's fun to watch the Kings again.

This could, as I've said in other threads, go down in history as the most mutually beneficial trade ever made in the NBA.

GO KINGS!!

 

[bigbadred00]

well I was watching Pacers to see wheather Pedja was done as a player or wheather he was done with Kings and it seams to be the latter

I think most people assumed that as well. Peja might be playing great as a Pacer. He wasn't playing great for us. You can blame it on the injuries, but he wasn't injured last year and he didn't play like MVP-Hype Peja.

Peja I guess is more motivated and a better fit in Indy. You can say Peja didn't take off nights like Vince did, but he might have also not given 110% every night which is something we need.

 

[VF21]

G:11 Ron the "Messiah"

3PTA -3PTM: 5.3 - 1.4 = 25.9%

FGA - FGM: 17.8 - 6.8 = 38.3%


brick's lynch mob ???

You gotta love the determination of a rabid Peja homer.



The horse is dead. Its carcass has been removed, its been rendered into various products and will not be returning.

I think it's safe to quit beating it now.

If you're only here to cause problems because you're angry over the trade, then you might as well stop right now.

 

[bigbadred00]

http://www.82games.com/0506/0506SAC.HTM

Much more telling stat.

We are net +11.8 points per 100 possessions when Artest is On the Court rather than being off. We were net -6.7 points per 100 possessions when Peja was on the court this year. That's a +17 points per 100 possessions difference.

Likewise, Artest was +10.1 for the same stat in Indy and now Peja is +12.3 in Indy. Thus he's having a much bigger effect in Indy (might be due to the small sample size). But you get where I'm going. Peja in Indy is better for them. Artest (b/c he wasn't playing), is better for us in Sacto.

 

[playmaker0017]

We are net +11.8 points per 100 possessions when Artest is On the Court rather than being off. We were net -6.7 points per 100 possessions when Peja was on the court this year. That's a +17 points per 100 possessions difference.

The problem with that stat is it only shows per100 possessions since his arrival. So, I would hope we are +11.8 with Ron on the court than off the court.

What I'm saying is you aren't comparing it to anything. It's not like we're +11.8 since he got here. We're actually down some odd points offensively, but we're giving up a LOT fewer points.

 

[piksi]

I honestly think we're seeing "new player syndrome" in Indiana. Peja is happier there, he wants to try hard to make it work, etc. If it gets him back to where he was pre-soap opera drama here, then more power to him.

I honestly think we're seeing "player resurrection syndrome" in Sacramento. Ron is playing again, he's determined to make this work, and he brings an intensity to the game that we have been sorely needing.

At this point, I don't give a rat's patoot about their respective statistics. All I know for sure is it's fun to watch the Kings again.

This could, as I've said in other threads, go down in history as the most mutually beneficial trade ever made in the NBA.

GO KINGS!!

absolutely

 

[bigbadred00]

No what I'm saying is this. This is what the stat means. When Ron is on the court, we as a team outscore our opponents 107.0 and give up 96.6 points per 100 possessions. Likewise when he's off the court this year (that's for most of the year, and yes like Peja's are why the stats look so large right now), we scored 106.1 points per 100 possessions while we gave up 108.0 per 100 possessions. I never admitted that the stats aren't some how skewed, but they show Artest is having a positive effect when he's been on the court this year for the team while Peja this year has had a negative effect while being on the court as respect to them being off the court.

 

[bigbadred00]

The problem with that stat is it only shows per100 possessions since his arrival. So, I would hope we are +11.8 with Ron on the court than off the court.

What I'm saying is you aren't comparing it to anything. It's not like we're +11.8 since he got here. We're actually down some odd points offensively, but we're giving up a LOT fewer points.

And yes I am comparing it to other things. Go read the stats, there pretty easy to decipher. It's easy to decipher what I've stated previously. Peja on our team wasn't all that great this year. Likewise, Peja has been pretty effective for the team. It's better to compare a player's effective +/- per 100 possessions b/c everyone is then on equal ground than by game or by team. Otherwise, I'd be stating what was done earlier by Vlad.

 

[Bricklayer]

Only thing that is silly - to expect Pedja to ever get any credit from You

Yes indeedy. Silly me.

Peja Stojakovic has OBVIOUSLY caused the Pacers to suddenly start allowing 9 fewer points per game over this 7 game streak.

I mean, what other POSSIBLE explanation could there be? At least if you have a poster of the man signed with a "Love, Peja" still hanging in your bedroom.


So, after all the silly fanboy/girl screeching is done, observe what Peja has done: 19pts 7rebs on 47% shooting. Sound familiar? It should. Same old Peja. Not done after all. But not carrying anybody. Contributing. A good player. But the people who have cranked the defense up are the old Indiana guard and its the defense that has won them these games. The offense is about the same.

 

[DeAtHrOw]

Yes indeedy. Silly me.

Peja Stojakovic has OBVIOUSLY caused the Pacers to suddenly start allowing 9 fewere points per game over this 7 game streak.

I mean, what other POSSIBLE explanation could there be? At least if you have a poster of the man signed with a "Love, Peja" still hanging in your bedroom.


So, after all the silly fanboy/girl screeching is done, observe what Peja has done: 19pts 7rebs on 47% shooting. Sound familiar? It should. Same old Peja. Not done after all. But not carrying anybody. Contributing. A good player. But the people who have cranked the defense up are the old Indiana guard And its the defense that has won them these games. The offense is about the same.

I believe Pacers fans would beg to differ.

 

[Bricklayer]

I believe Pacers fans would beg to differ.

Oh I'm sure. Many are writing odes about the Pejacentric defensive renaissance even as we speak.

Truth is I think most of them are still getting over the shock of finding out that Peja does not completely suck. You would have thought we'd traded them Matt Bullard three weeks ago.


They've got a lot of guys playing well right now. Peja among them. Without him they would be screwed with Jermaine gone. But that's not the same thing as saying the rest of the guys are playing better because of Peja. Ironically, I think the rest of the guys may be playing better because of Ron. Or rather that the whole Ron thing is done.

 

[DeAtHrOw]

Oh I'm sure. Many are writing odes about the Pejacentric defensive renaissance even as we speak.

Truth is I think most of them are still getting over the shock of finding out that Peja does not completely suck. You would have thought we'd traded them Matt Bullard three weeks ago.

And here piksi thought you were biased...silly him what could have possibly gave him that impression

 

[Kings113]

lol

Agreed with Brick's posts

 

[LA King Fan II]

The Kings are a watchable team again. They'll go down swinging the rest of the year. Hell, even Indiana is more watchable (a lot due to Peja). The Kings however did not need an "outside threat only" who played with NBA minimum toughness. Geez, Bibby-Miller-Peja playing defense together?

Artest is playing hurt, and while that is decimating is outside shot it is giving heart to a team that had a competitive pulse that was barely ticking. Artest makes everyone on the court better "defensively". With our current roster, Peja did no such thing on either end of the court.

Artest won't go 5-20 again, and he will in fact make the Kings better on offense too. Let's see how he does after a little break now, and then let's see Peja light up Tayshaun after the Break.

Kings still need a big guy, but they're playing a better brand of basketball.

 

[bigbadred00]

Who would have imagined that Pollard would play for an extent of a couple of games for serious minutes and be productive (hasn't happened since he left Sacto). They still have a lot of talent even without JO or Artest.

Granger is going to be a very good player (can't believe he fell), Fred Jones is exciting, Jackson can score and will score. The Euro guy who went to Maryland is also very good. Harrison is a pretty good young big man. Foster is a rebounding machine.

They've always been deep. How in the world do you think they won a playoff series last year, they have a lot of good pieces. Add back Tinsley and JO, and they could definitely be scary.

Tinsley/Maryland Guy/AJ
Jackson/Granger/Fred Jones
Peja/Granger/Fred Jones
JO/Pollard
Foster/Pollard/Harrison

That's a quality club with scorers, defenders and 3 point shooters on top of being at most 28 years old between all of them but Pollard.

 

[Kings113]

Maryland guy = Sarunas Jasikevicus.

Peja vs. Prince, as a Pacer - 8/6/2.

 

[VF21]

So, after all the silly fanboy/girl screeching is done, observe what Peja has done: 19pts 7rebs on 47% shooting. Sound familiar? It should. Same old Peja. Not done after all. But not carrying anybody. Contributing. A good player. But the people who have cranked the defense up are the old Indiana guard and its the defense that has won them these games. The offense is about the same.

Bravo, especially for the part I've bolded.

This whole refrain by a few people about how the anti-Peja bent of some members somehow contaminates their judgment is tired and old and pretty much moot.

I hate to be the one to break the news, but the 2006 Predrag Stojakovic was NOT the 2002, 2003, or even 2004 Predrag Stojakovic. I simply do not see the need to keep chewing on this piece of gristle.

Peja is gone. He was traded for Ron Artest. Both teams could reap major dividends from the trade and both players could really be much happier in their new situations.

Is it REALLY necessary to continue to act as though a few of us, Bricklayer included, have it in for Peja? We're KINGS fans. It's about the team and what's best for it.

Just as I've come to terms with the whole Webber scenario, I think it's time some of you come to terms with the Peja issue.

It's dead; it's over. Nothing to see here...

 

[vj9999]

Maryland guy = Sarunas Jasikevicus.

Peja vs. Prince, as a Pacer - 8/6/2.

To be fair you should post Prince's numbers as well. PEja played good defense on him. 13/2/0

4 of Peja's 6 rebounds were offensive and Pacers still won.

Not a great game, but he did ok.

 

[vj9999]

Just as I've come to terms with the whole Webber scenario, I think it's time some of you come to terms with the Peja issue.

It's dead; it's over. Nothing to see here...

It took some people long time to get over CWebb (some are still not over it).. It might take a while for some to get over Peja as well.

I agree though. On the day he was traded the era was over. No need to keep thinking what could have been. Peja is a good player, Ron is a good player. We should worry about Ron and only look at his stats and leave Peja's stats for Pacers fans.

 

[Kings113]

To be fair you should post Prince's numbers as well. PEja played good defense on him. 13/2/0

4 of Peja's 6 rebounds were offensive and Pacers still won.

Not a great game, but he did ok.

Agreed, I saw the game. But 3 of them were in the first half, and like 2 or 3 in one possession (which was fun to see). Also have to remember Danny Granger, and Pistons played the night before.

 

[JJ22L]

Thank You for illistrating just how misleading stats can be.

True that...how do you quantize hussle and passion..stats are twofaced...can be good..but in this case..these dont even remotely show what artest has brought to the table..

 

[JJ22L]

http://www.82games.com/0506/0506SAC.HTM

Much more telling stat.

We are net +11.8 points per 100 possessions when Artest is On the Court rather than being off. We were net -6.7 points per 100 possessions when Peja was on the court this year. That's a +17 points per 100 possessions difference.

Likewise, Artest was +10.1 for the same stat in Indy and now Peja is +12.3 in Indy. Thus he's having a much bigger effect in Indy (might be due to the small sample size). But you get where I'm going. Peja in Indy is better for them. Artest (b/c he wasn't playing), is better for us in Sacto.

YAY SAMPSON!!!

 

[starks]

I'm surprised that this thread is not locked yet...I really think that we have to close discussions about peja vs. artest, indy stats etc....we have new team with new style (which I don't like at all btw), new self-fans-proclaimed leader and see what will happened...hopefully we'll get play-off spot and surprise Dallas in the first round

 

[piksi]

Yes indeedy. Silly me.

Peja Stojakovic has OBVIOUSLY caused the Pacers to suddenly start allowing 9 fewer points per game over this 7 game streak.

I mean, what other POSSIBLE explanation could there be? At least if you have a poster of the man signed with a "Love, Peja" still hanging in your bedroom.


So, after all the silly fanboy/girl screeching is done, observe what Peja has done: 19pts 7rebs on 47% shooting. Sound familiar? It should. Same old Peja. Not done after all. But not carrying anybody. Contributing. A good player. But the people who have cranked the defense up are the old Indiana guard and its the defense that has won them these games. The offense is about the same.

It is actually a life size poster and it is all over my walls and I also have a gold statue in the back yard

I never said that Pedja is carying anyone. I said that addition of Pedja has changed the complexity of that team and it is a reason that their are doing pretty well right now. No way around it.

 

[piksi]

Artest won't go 5-20 again

yes, he will and so will every other player in this league who takes that many shots every night. It is the way things go in this league

 

[piksi]

Peja vs. Prince, as a Pacer - 8/6/2.

Pacers actually won that game

 

[Kool Keith]

attempted analysis of peja eventually results in a hell-bent determination by some to downplay anything peja himself did well while attributing everything that went wrong collectively to peja... sadly this has been the norm for some time.

both teams benefit from this trade, only problem for the kings is that the heartbeat isnt the only thing ticking...

 

[VF21]

I've reopened the thread...

Please, everyone. We all know there are people who feel very strongly on both sides of the Peja the saint vs. Peja the devil incarnate issue.

There is, I believe, some merit in this discussion. I've removed the posts that were simply a rehash of stuff that's gone on for about two years. Could we please manage to avoid those obvious pitfalls for the good of the discussion?

Thanks...

 

[bozzwell]

Wooo-hooo! Pedja vs. Ron thread!!!

I don't think so....

Maybe it made sense _before_ the trade, but now? I beleive that while Pedja has contributed to a large extent to Indy's recent run, he is not exactly carrying them, nor is anybody else for that matter. They are playing well as a team especially as benchers (Pollard, Foster, AJ) are overcompenzating for loss of JO and Tinsley. At the same time, those who just don't like Pedja (or his demenour, or his lack of toughness or whatever else) and who quickly forgot all the good years that Pedja gave us, maybe you should look at it like that: Pedja _was_ traded for Ron. Actually, Bird wanted Pedja. Pedja _carried_ that trade.

 

[Kool Keith]

The fact that Peja doesnt carry the team is certainly no shortcoming. The Kings wanted someone to carry the team (at least on the defensive end) and Ronnie will surely try to do that. So far its worked out alright and things do look promising. Pacers on the other hand already had a carrier and needed a stable team player with a good skill-set to take things to the next level. So far, that seems to be working out as well. Peja doesnt need to assert himself on the team (ala "this is MY team") in order to make an impact.

No doubt the Kings-Pacers showdown next month will make for some interesting opinions..