Cisco

[OptimusRhyme]

Ciscos return is schedualed for February so I thought i would start this thread now. Mainly because I'm bored and you can only criticize losses so much...

I think Cisco can compliment Reke alot better then Martin can as the starting 2 guard when he returns. Hes a much better defender then Martin, hes a better ball handler and playmaker and he brings full out energy all game.


Imagine the leadership in our backcourt with Reke & Cisco.. imagine the defensive potential with that pairing. We would have two great shotblocking guards that can potentially both guard the 1,2 & 3.

Ciscos entensity is the main reason I want him out there, he's really a contagious player with the energy he brings and hes very vocal... and with this young team I can see it rubbing off on the rest of the players.

I just think from what i've seen in the past from Garcia, that he would compliment Reke alot better then a one dimentional scorer.

Hurry back Latin Assassin!

 

[LWP777]

I couldn't agree more. Cisco will compliment Reke a lot more than KMart will.

 

[Merdiesel]

I agree on the shot blocking aspect.
Evans, Garcia and Greene are all pretty good shot blockers for their positions. That will be fun to see.

 

[Fear the Putin]

this is kinda off topic, but Garcia is going to be turning 29 this year. It's amazing how quickly time flies.

 

[swisshh]

I always felt Cisco's return and presence is more important than Martin, just because he can play without the ball and make the pass, spread the court, etc. All the things that work better with Tyreke. He is also stronger than KMart and team's switching the PG/SG defensively against the Kings hurts them more against Cisco than Kmart. Kevin isn't going to be bodying up anyone inside.

 

[sactownfan]

I love and respect and love Garcia the leader.... BUT...

Im over Garcia as well i'd like to see him traded... as i see it hes way over paid now... how quickly we forget that Garcia plays like JT (fast and outa control) but at the SG spot...

Garcia has improved at not being so outa control, but is still very erratic... most importantly hes not consistent at doing anything... especially with his shot... he CAN hit a clutch shot here and there but then he has a couple forces and bricks that usually follow...

im sorry but Martin like Evans has proved that you can count on him to consistently do his thing... for good or bad... martin when hes 100% can shoot lights out and get to the line at a amazing rate... he also sucks at defense... but avg 25pts a game and being one of the most efficient players in the league PUTS MARTIN SO FAR AHEAD OF GARCIA IN TALENT AND ABILITY....

 

[SLAB]

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=684285&postcount=41
11/30/09
-----------------

I really think Garcia can be something big to this team...But only as long as Martin (and Noc) are gone.

I was worried about K-Marts return, and thus far it has proven me right.
Our logjam at SG/SF is not currently good for our youngs development and management needs to decide who is the vet that stays...

*I really don't see Martin taking a bench role from the coaches, and he has value as a guy who can score 20+ a game.
*Noc just needs to be traded to whoever can accept him for decent return.
*Cisco/Greene/Casspi need to stay. They are not black holes, nor are they contract issues. And Cisco is such a leader type that you would love to rub off on the others...

Im not going to get into any trade stuff, but Garcia fits this team a heckuva lot more than most (if not all) out other vet wingers.

 

[ParniValjak]

I love and respect and love Garcia the leader.... BUT...

Im over Garcia as well i'd like to see him traded... as i see it hes way over paid now... how quickly we forget that Garcia plays like JT (fast and outa control) but at the SG spot...

Garcia has improved at not being so outa control, but is still very erratic... most importantly hes not consistent at doing anything... especially with his shot... he CAN hit a clutch shot here and there but then he has a couple forces and bricks that usually follow...

im sorry but Martin like Evans has proved that you can count on him to consistently do his thing... for good or bad... martin when hes 100% can shoot lights out and get to the line at a amazing rate... he also sucks at defense... but avg 25pts a game and being one of the most efficient players in the league PUTS MARTIN SO FAR AHEAD OF GARCIA IN TALENT AND ABILITY....

Sometimes its not purely about talent and ability but about being the right fit.

Of course Martin is more talented than Cisco but Cisco is a better fit for this team because our franchise player happens to be a combo guard who needs the ball to be effective.

Just as Martin / Wade backcourt wouldn't work, Martin/Evans pairing won't work. There is a reason ball dominant guards are paired with a role playing guard next to them.

Martin is a VERY VERY good player but he is not the right fit. Now if our franchise guy was a PF or a C (for argument sake say a young CWebb) then Martin is a PERFECT fit there. As things stand right now, he is the odd man out and just happens to be our most tradeable asset.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

In theory, Garcia will fit in perfectly with these guys. That being said, no one really knows .. Garcia hasnt played at all this season, I expect him to be pretty rusty. He'd be almost impossible to trade this year anyway. And when you look at this roster, Nocioni, Udrih, and Martin should all be traded before him ( in that order ).

I love Garcia, really, I do. He's been my favorite King for years now, he brings it every night, and for now, there is a spot for him on this team. If we go into next season with Casspi, Greene, and Garcia at the 2-3 were in good shape. Plenty of PT for all of them, Garcia will be our only remaining vet and then we move on from there.


In a perfect world, We trade Martin + Hawes or JT for Jefferson, Trade K9 and Nocioni for Eddy Curry, then draft a defensive big this year in the draft. That would make me a very happy Kings fan.

 

[CaAllDay]

yep i agree cisco fits this team better then k mart now, he can shoot the three and is alot better defender then k mart. He can also handle the ball better then martin who some how has made it in the leauge with no ability to go left and finish at all.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think Cisco can compliment Reke alot better then Martin can as the starting 2 guard when he returns. Hes a much better defender then Martin, hes a better ball handler and playmaker and he brings full out energy all game.


Imagine the leadership in our backcourt with Reke & Cisco.. imagine the defensive potential with that pairing. We would have two great shotblocking guards that can potentially both guard the 1,2 & 3.

Ciscos entensity is the main reason I want him out there, he's really a contagious player with the energy he brings and hes very vocal... and with this young team I can see it rubbing off on the rest of the players.

I just think from what i've seen in the past from Garcia, that he would compliment Reke alot better then a one dimentional scorer.

Hurry back Latin Assassin!

I've been saying that for months, so obviously I am not going to argue wiht it now.

What is completely clear of course is there is no physical way we can accomodate having both guys back and healthy with the rest of this roster.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

We are experiencing a critical mass...what WILL you do Geoff?!? The power is in your hands...

 

[gunks]

Two many wings!

Kev and Noc need to go....Funny thing is it may take that package to get rid of Noc.

But yeah, Cisco and Reke...That could be fun. Always dug the Cisco kid too, cant wait for him to be back.

 

[juicij36]

Poor, poor Marty-Mar.
How quickly things change.

 

[VF21]

Poor, poor Marty-Mar.
How quickly things change.

I'm not totally sure what you mean, but not everyone is quite ready to throw Martin under the bus.

 

[Bricklayer]

Poor, poor Marty-Mar.
How quickly things change.

Quite simply, what the hell is this insane myth of Kevin Martin people keep hanging on to? Did I miss something really fun that has happened since he arrived in Sacramento? Because I was watching us struggle through ****ty year after ****ty year of boring mediocrity. Kevin Martin may be able to be a winning basketball player for some team some day if he gets in the right position, but he has never been a winning basketball player for us. When Chris Webber returned this was a former MVP candidate who we had won 60 games with and been a title contender (even favorite) with. Hanging onto that hope, that past, made sense. But this Kevin thing...its ludicrous. Kevin's big success year for us was a half year of part time starting in which he averaged 10.8pts and we won all of 44 games. Yip to the bleeping ee. This was followed by inspiring runs as our star player to 34 wins, 38 wins, and then the cherry on top, 17 wins. And yet to hear some of the incessant hand wringing around here you would think we are welcoming back some conquering hero who has carried the team to glory in the past and that its just impossible to imagine a future without.

The last 3-4 years around here have been an abomination that any sensible Kings fan would try to wipe from their memory as completely as possible. There is nothing to save and nothing to cherish from that era. All that matters is the future, a future suddenly looking bright for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the last 3 years beyond us sucking so bad we got good draft position. If a player can come in, from wherever, and help that future, fit in, add something, stay out of the way of the youth who are the true hope around here, then fine. Good for him. As long as he doesn't clog the roster or our cap position he can stay, unless of course we can get a better peice for him in trade. If a player can't, steals shots, minutes, money, opportunity and life from the team, then buh-bye. Either way there is absolutely nothing from the past to cling to anymore. Our glorious past is long gone. That entire generation of players long since moved on or retired. Getting clingy about pieces leftover from the crap years that have followed, even in the face of the blatantly superior team and vibe we have suddenly put together now, is just inexplicable. Were you clingy about Wayman Tisdale too?

 

[Bart-Poland]

I love and respect and love Garcia the leader.... BUT...

Im over Garcia as well i'd like to see him traded... as i see it hes way over paid now... how quickly we forget that Garcia plays like JT (fast and outa control) but at the SG spot...

Garcia has improved at not being so outa control, but is still very erratic... most importantly hes not consistent at doing anything... especially with his shot... he CAN hit a clutch shot here and there but then he has a couple forces and bricks that usually follow...

im sorry but Martin like Evans has proved that you can count on him to consistently do his thing... for good or bad... martin when hes 100% can shoot lights out and get to the line at a amazing rate... he also sucks at defense... but avg 25pts a game and being one of the most efficient players in the league PUTS MARTIN SO FAR AHEAD OF GARCIA IN TALENT AND ABILITY....

sorry for off topic but a little picture is you?

 

[VF21]

Quite simply, what the hell is this insane myth of Kevin Martin people keep hanging on to? Did I miss something really fun that has happened since he arrived in Sacramento? Because I was watching us struggle through ****ty year after ****ty year of boring mediocrity. Kevin Martin may be able to be a winning basketball player for some team some day if he gets in the right position, but he has never been a winning basketball player for us. When Chris Webber returned this was a former MVP candidate who we had won 60 games with and been a title contender (even favorite) with. Hanging onto that hope, that past, made sense. But this Kevin thing...its ludicrous. Kevin's big success year for us was a half year of part time starting in which he averaged 10.8pts and we won all of 44 games. Yip to the bleeping ee. This was followed by inspiring runs as our star player to 34 wins, 38 wins, and then the cherry on top, 17 wins. And yet to hear some of the incessant hand wringing around here you would think we are welcoming back some conquering hero who has carried the team to glory in the past and that its just impossible to imagine a future without.

The last 3-4 years around here have been an abomination that any sensible Kings fan would try to wipe from their memory as completely as possible. There is nothing to save and nothing to cherish from that era. All that matters is the future, a future suddenly looking bright for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the last 3 years beyond us sucking so bad we got good draft position. If a player can come in, from wherever, and help that future, fit in, add something, stay out of the way of the youth who are the true hope around here, then fine. Good for him. As long as he doesn't clog the roster or our cap position he can stay, unless of course we can get a better peice for him in trade. If a player can't, steals shots, minutes, money, opportunity and life from the team, then buh-bye. Either way there is absolutely nothing from the past to cling to anymore. Our glorious past is long gone. That entire generation of players long since moved on or retired. Getting clingy about pieces leftover from the crap years that have followed, even in the face of the blatantly superior team and vibe we have suddenly put together now, is just inexplicable. Were you clingy about Wayman Tisdale too?

If people want to see Kevin stay, it's because he's a nice guy, a talented scorer, an asset as far as community relations go and not a selfish player in any way.

He was not the problem in the crappy years, despite how many times you try and make it appear that way. (And perhaps that's merely my perception...) A lot of us happen to like Kevin Martin and enjoy watching him. Should that alone make us subject to continual and constant rebuke because you don't think he fits with the team?

It's not about the glorious past. It's about rooting for one of the good guys. I still don't understand why it's necessary to attack every single person who says anything positive about Martin...

 

[juicij36]

Quite simply, what the hell is this insane myth of Kevin Martin people keep hanging on to? Did I miss something really fun that has happened since he arrived in Sacramento? Because I was watching us struggle through ****ty year after ****ty year of boring mediocrity. Kevin Martin may be able to be a winning basketball player for some team some day if he gets in the right position, but he has never been a winning basketball player for us. When Chris Webber returned this was a former MVP candidate who we had won 60 games with and been a title contender (even favorite) with. Hanging onto that hope, that past, made sense. But this Kevin thing...its ludicrous. Kevin's big success year for us was a half year of part time starting in which he averaged 10.8pts and we won all of 44 games. Yip to the bleeping ee. This was followed by inspiring runs as our star player to 34 wins, 38 wins, and then the cherry on top, 17 wins. And yet to hear some of the incessant hand wringing around here you would think we are welcoming back some conquering hero who has carried the team to glory in the past and that its just impossible to imagine a future without.

The last 3-4 years around here have been an abomination that any sensible Kings fan would try to wipe from their memory as completely as possible. There is nothing to save and nothing to cherish from that era. All that matters is the future, a future suddenly looking bright for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the last 3 years beyond us sucking so bad we got good draft position. If a player can come in, from wherever, and help that future, fit in, add something, stay out of the way of the youth who are the true hope around here, then fine. Good for him. As long as he doesn't clog the roster or our cap position he can stay, unless of course we can get a better peice for him in trade. If a player can't, steals shots, minutes, money, opportunity and life from the team, then buh-bye. Either way there is absolutely nothing from the past to cling to anymore. Our glorious past is long gone. That entire generation of players long since moved on or retired. Getting clingy about pieces leftover from the crap years that have followed, even in the face of the blatantly superior team and vibe we have suddenly put together now, is just inexplicable. Were you clingy about Wayman Tisdale too?

I apologize Mr. Brick.
GET THE **** out of here Kevin! The sooner the better 4 every1 in the world.
Better?

 

[kingzfan]

If people want to see Kevin stay, it's because he's a nice guy, a talented scorer, an asset as far as community relations go and not a selfish player in any way.

He was not the problem in the crappy years, despite how many times you try and make it appear that way. (And perhaps that's merely my perception...) A lot of us happen to like Kevin Martin and enjoy watching him. Should that alone make us subject to continual and constant rebuke because you don't think he fits with the team?

It's not about the glorious past. It's about rooting for one of the good guys. I still don't understand why it's necessary to attack every single person who says anything positive about Martin...

agreed completely!

 

[pshn80]

I thought this was a Garcia thread. I agree with those that want him back. I think he will bring at lot of good for the team When the Kings invited me for dinner last month they asked me (and I guess everyone else) who my favorite player was and I said Garcia -and also worth noting, he showed up at the dinner.

The value I see in Garcia has nothing to do with Martin. If Garcia's return is a problem in sharing minutes or providing minutes for all the valued players on this losing team then so be it. I might even pick Garcia for minutes over some of our other players - experienced or not. However, I will leave those decisions to the coaches and GP. My advice - play Garcia.

 

[AriesMar27]

I love and respect and love Garcia the leader.... BUT...

Im over Garcia as well i'd like to see him traded... as i see it hes way over paid now... how quickly we forget that Garcia plays like JT (fast and outa control) but at the SG spot...

Garcia has improved at not being so outa control, but is still very erratic... most importantly hes not consistent at doing anything... especially with his shot... he CAN hit a clutch shot here and there but then he has a couple forces and bricks that usually follow...

im sorry but Martin like Evans has proved that you can count on him to consistently do his thing... for good or bad... martin when hes 100% can shoot lights out and get to the line at a amazing rate... he also sucks at defense... but avg 25pts a game and being one of the most efficient players in the league PUTS MARTIN SO FAR AHEAD OF GARCIA IN TALENT AND ABILITY....

i was just about to post the exact same thing and thats what scares me the most about thompson... he was a 4 year college player, i dont see him getting much better just like garcia didnt get much better if at all... he just got more shots...

 

[Bricklayer]

If people want to see Kevin stay, it's because he's a nice guy, a talented scorer, an asset as far as community relations go and not a selfish player in any way.

He was not the problem in the crappy years, despite how many times you try and make it appear that way. (And perhaps that's merely my perception...) A lot of us happen to like Kevin Martin and enjoy watching him. Should that alone make us subject to continual and constant rebuke because you don't think he fits with the team?

It's not about the glorious past. It's about rooting for one of the good guys. I still don't understand why it's necessary to attack every single person who says anything positive about Martin...

This is 1999 and missing the start of something special because you are still bemoaniing losing Mitch.

 

[VF21]

This is 1999 and missing the start of something special because you are still bemoaniing losing Mitch.

Nope. I never really liked Mitch Richmond. Go figure...

And if people are "missing the start of something special," so what? To each their own, you know.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, BTW. The point is that if people want to root for Martin, I still don't understand the problem. He's wearing the uniform of the Sacramento Kings, he's always been a good guy and he's got a lot of fans. All I'm trying to say is that people who choose to root for him have every right to do so. "You pays your money and you takes your chance."