Chris Webber trade

[Big Cuz 15]

it was a dumb move, my feelings havent changed... he had like 3 triple doubles in 4 or 5 games when he was traded... if people thought that 02-03 was our best chance at a ring man... that 04-05 was just as open... if we had webber when we played the sonics... man... or even this past year...

trading for bonzi and later artest....

i'm still for the trade. it had to happen. we were one minor knee injury away from webb sitting on the sidelines watching games for 20-30-40 possibly the whole season. it was a gamble that the kings had to take. could we have forecasted that he would return to form? no
as far as the return pieces.. i think we could have gotten more for him.

as far as him have triple doubles, petrie or adelman had to showcase his skills in order to be able to move him. they planned it well before shipping him out.

 

[bibbyweb]

Hey, maybe 2 years later when C-Webb out of his huge contract we can sign him with minimum and he'll probably still be better than KT.

I doubt if Webber would want to come back after being kicked out.

 

[Kev.in]

I do think that the "idea" of trading Webber due to his health/contract was the right idea.
The execution of that "idea" was horrible because we would have gotten more at a yard sale.
So if You add both together - it was a mistake but it was "meant well"

This is how I feel. These "movable pieces" are about to turn into thin air, as soon as we unload Kenny or just let his contract expire. That's depressing to think about because at least Chris wanted to win and has continued to alter his game. I was open to the deal at first but right now I can't help but wonder what this team would look like with Webber in the lineup instead of Thomas.

 

[goggles99]

as far as him have triple doubles, petrie or adelman had to showcase his skills in order to be able to move him. they planned it well before shipping him out.

ROFL.....
yeah, I think that Jeff and Rick made all of those shots, assists, and rebounds happen somehow.... Flubber, that's what they used.... Flubber, and vodoo too...

I was against the webber trade from the beginning, and I still am. We got 3 players for 1, have only played just the 1 (KT), and his best attribute (rebounding) isn't even as high as webber's has been, and the 76ers even have other good rebounders competing with him for rebounds (which we generally don't).
Plus his "Heart" , "Leadership", and "Experiance" far outweighs KT's. I truly like KT, and cheer for him every game, but he is not as talented, or gifted and athlete as Webber is.

If you are still for the trade, and think we are better today becasue of it... Tell me what your reasoning is??? because it defies logic.

 

[acisking]

Agree that the Webber part of the deal was terrible...but another aspect people are forgetting is that we also gave up Matt Barnes in the trade, who I believe is at least as valuable a piece on a team as Corliss or Skinner.

 

[sloter]

Yep, I supported the trade more than anyone. Couldn't stand Webber and still can't. After all is said and done my comment about the trade would be: bleh. Weren't going anywhere with Webber, and we obviously didn't get very far without him.
Btw, as much as I supported Webber trade, I supported even more firing of Adelman. Webber could have been much more useful for us in a slightly different role, but he wouldn't accept it and Adelman didn't care to convince him.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Well, now they're both gone, so you should be very happy.

 

[sloter]

im happier because of that, but not really happy with the current team.

 

[VF21]

Hey, sloter. I think you can change your signature.

 

[KingsChick]

Agree with everyone who was against the trade, extremely was poor.

Webber still has the potential of a winner, and with him who knows where we could have been.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

i don't think any of you would be against the trade if webb never returned to form or semi-form. what if his 20 mill per year contract is sitting on the sideline due to another injury? would you all still support him as you do now? it was a gamble made by the kings org. and i still support it. as another poster said, we weren't going anywhere with him in the line up. we'd be another team getting into the playoffs and getting knocked out. we definitely were not going to win a championship with webb in the line up.
this great team petrie assembled was coming apart, christie, vlade and webb were getting old. they are not the players they once were. it is time to move on and construct another great team. every team goes through its ups and downs. this just happens to be a period where we are down.

google: oh i'm sure they centered the offense around webb to help boost his fg%, assists stats. thats typically what teams do when they want to showcase a player for trade.

 

[Geoff]

i don't think any of you would be against the trade if webb never returned to form or semi-form. what if his 20 mill per year contract is sitting on the sideline due to another injury? would you all still support him as you do now? it was a gamble made by the kings org. and i still support it. as another poster said, we weren't going anywhere with him in the line up. we'd be another team getting into the playoffs and getting knocked out. we definitely were not going to win a championship with webb in the line up.
this great team petrie assembled was coming apart, christie, vlade and webb were getting old. they are not the players they once were. it is time to move on and construct another great team. every team goes through its ups and downs. this just happens to be a period where we are down.

google: oh i'm sure they centered the offense around webb to help boost his fg%, assists stats. thats typically what teams do when they want to showcase a player for trade.

Well, he DID return to semi-form, and that is the point. Either the management took a gamble and lost, or they gave up too soon and traded their most productive player. Whatever way you look at it, they are paying for it now.

 

[acisking]

google: oh i'm sure they centered the offense around webb to help boost his fg%, assists stats. thats typically what teams do when they want to showcase a player for trade.

More like centering the offense around Webb helped us win games. Regardless, even if it was somehow done with the intention of an intentional trade, Webber still did a damn good job of showcasing. Player of the month the January before the trade pretty much seals up the fact that Chris was playing at an incredible level.

 

[6th]

Well, he DID return to semi-form, and that is the point. Either the management took a gamble and lost, or they gave up too soon and traded their most productive player. Whatever way you look at it, they are paying for it now.

Yes!! IMHO - It is as simple as that. Thanks for saying it so succinctly.

 

[G_M]

Well, he DID return to semi-form, and that is the point. Either the management took a gamble and lost, or they gave up too soon and traded their most productive player. Whatever way you look at it, they are paying for it now.

"SEMI-FORM" does not merit Webbers crazy salary. I'm not schilling for the current roster just pointing out the obvious.

 

[acisking]

"SEMI-FORM" does not merit Webbers crazy salary. I'm not schilling for the current roster just pointing out the obvious.

Yet the salaries we acquired were also massive relative to the quality of the players we were acquiring. And they didn't do us any good in terms of performance in games, acquiring other talent, or freeing up cap room. Thus, Sacramento would have been better off holding on to Webber's salary which would have given them far more options (with an upcoming expiring contract) and a player who - along with ron, brad, martin, and bibby - would have formed a hell of a starting lineup.

 

[nbrans]

Yet the salaries we acquired were also massive relative to the quality of the players we were acquiring. And they didn't do us any good in terms of performance in games, acquiring other talent, or freeing up cap room. Thus, Sacramento would have been better off holding on to Webber's salary which would have given them far more options (with an upcoming expiring contract) and a player who - along with ron, brad, martin, and bibby - would have formed a hell of a starting lineup.

This is as much of a myth as our "flexible" pieces. If Philadelphia could have unloaded Webber in the offseason they would have in a heartbeat. But they didn't because they can't -- Webber is not tradeable. No one in the league will take him on at his salary. And I don't know if you've watched any Philly games this season, but he looks terrible.

Say what you will about the Kings' flexible pieces, but the Kings have $10 million in expiring contracts right now, which at best can be dangled in a trade for a star and at worst come off the books during this offseason. Kenny may be overpaid, but it's not like he's breaking the bank. If we don't use those enders the Kings are about $10 million under the cap threshold in the offseason, which they can safely earmark to re-sign Bibby if he opts out (or execute a S&T) and use the MLE. The Sixers can't afford to improve their team.

And even if the Sixers do get some value out of Webber's expiring (unlikely given the recent track record of expiring contracts) it won't come until next year's trading deadling. And even then it's not like the Sixers are going to get a star up front (unless it's someone no one wants a la Steve Francis). They're either going to have to take on some junk contracts or give up their some youngsters to get anything of value. Or they just quietly let Webber's contract expire and acknowledge that they wasted the last years of AI's prime.

I can understand people being anti-trade, I absolutely respect that opinion. But the Kings undeniably have the edge in the financial area, even if it took what seems like forever for Corliss' and Skinner's (now Pot's) contracts to expire.

 

[Bricklayer]

I can understand people being anti-trade, I absolutely respect that opinion. But the Kings undeniably have the edge in the financial area, even if it took what seems like forever for Corliss' and Skinner's (now Pot's) contracts to expire.

Uh...that's a tad inaccurate.

We gained NOTHING financially. Nothing. Nothing on the court either. The "flexible peices" turned out either to be Petrie being full of ****, or him being badly, sadly mistaken. And while 2 of them are finally going to expire after this year, all of 1 season ahead of Webb, we've got the other third (KT) for years after Webb's contract goes poof. Meanwhile we've had to fill the roster with all kinds of garbage looking to fill the Webb void, and are currently running an $11 million platoon of mediocrity at the position, BOTH of whom will still be getting paid after Webb's deal is done. And I'll tell you something else -- at the end of next year when it comes time to max out Ron, and Kevin's agent comes forward and says show me the $10 mil as well, we would absolutely kill to have a nifty $20mil contract coming off the books to free up that kind of room.

There's not a single good thing to be said about that deal. We panicked. We lost. Geoff's best excuse is to try to pin it on the Maloofs.

 

[Pedrigues]

the road to sucking is paved with good intentions it seems

this was deep

 

[nbrans]

Uh...that's a load of hooey.

We gained NOTHING financially. Nothing. Nothing on the court either. The "flexible peices" turned out either to be Petrie being full of ****, or him being badly, sadly mistaken. And while 2 of them are finally going to expire after this year, all of 1 season ahead of Webb, we've got the other third (KT) for years after Webb's contract goes poof. Meanwhile we've had to fill the roster with all kinds of garbage looking to fill the Webb void, and are currently running an $11 million platoon of mediocrity at the position, BOTH of whom will still be getting paid after Webb's deal is done. And I'll tell you something else -- at the end of next year when it comes time to max out Ron, and Kevin's agent comes forward and says show me the $10 mil as well, we would absolutely kill to have a nifty $20mil contract coming off the books to free up that kind of room.

There's not a single good thing to be said about that deal. We panicked. We lost. Geoff's best excuse is to try to pin it on the Maloofs.

Ok, come on. I've gone out of my way to acknowledge that even though I'm pro-trade there are good arguments to be made against the trade. You can be a big boy and admit that there are some good things to be said about the deal even if you don't agree with it.

Even if it's a season sooner at least the $10 million comes off sooner. That's an advantage. If we were on the hook for Webber's $20 million what would we do this offseason? We would have no flexiliby to re-sign Bibby or improve the team without incurring the tax. So now we have the ability to keep Bibby and actually improve the team. That's not an advantage?

And yeah, Kenny is still on the books, but the Sixers are left with a bad option themselves: either let Webber's contract expire and have absolutley nothing to show for the Webber era (and that supposedly valuable $20 millions ender) or take on a Kenny-esque player. If the Sixers try and salvage their end they could very well be paying a Kenny esque bad contract longer than the Kings.

The Kings will be able to sign Artest and Martin given the anticipated rise of the tax and the future financial situation. They don't need a $20 million expiring contract to do it.

 

[sloter]

Two additional points:
1) I was actually pro-trade even before Webber's injury - that way we get rid of sensitive yet egoistic, pot-smoking, injury prone self-proclaimed team leader with a loser mentality and we would have actually gotten some solid pieces for him. It's a shame that Petrie was too slow on this.
2) I disagree that the Kings era is divided in pro and past Webber's injury, it should be divided into pre and post Divac era. He was the glue of the team in so many ways.

 

[sidney]

In retrospect it appears that trading Webber was not a bad idea talent wise. However, I think Petrie could have worked it another way with Philly. I seem to remember they traded Glenn Robinson (large ender) to the Hornets at that trade dealine too. I always thought Petrie should have traded for him, one of their young players (Daly, Kover, Iggy), and picks. Probably still would have been called a bad trade at the time for us, but getting youth and cap room is real "flexibility". Middling talent is anything but flexible. Who knows if it was an option, but we're talking about hindsight here.

 

[GoGoGadget]

And I'll tell you something else -- at the end of next year when it comes time to max out Ron, and Kevin's agent comes forward and says show me the $10 mil as well, we would absolutely kill to have a nifty $20mil contract coming off the books to free up that kind of room.

Wait... at the end of next year?

My attention span does not lend itself to contract math, so correct me if I'm wrong, but does that mean that if everything went just so we could potentially watch Ron, Mike and Kevin all walk away at the same time?

I can't honestly see the front office being stupid enough to let that happen, but... just the same.

 

[nbrans]

Wait... at the end of next year?

My attention span does not lend itself to contract math, so correct me if I'm wrong, but does that mean that if everything went just so we could potentially watch Ron, Mike and Kevin all walk away at the same time?

I can't honestly see the front office being stupid enough to let that happen, but... just the same.

Mike has to decide whether or not to pick up the last two years of his deal this offseason, so that will be resolved one way or another this year. Kevin will be a restricted free agent, so the Kings can match any offer for him. Ron is really the only risk to walk away at the end of next year, but the front office would be crazy not to give him whatever he wants.

But the end of next season is really really far away -- June 2008. I mean, we may all be driving flying cars by then.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Well, he DID return to semi-form, and that is the point. Either the management took a gamble and lost, or they gave up too soon and traded their most productive player. Whatever way you look at it, they are paying for it now.

its easier to picking wining #s for the super lotto after the #s have been pulled. i'm pro trade but i think we could have gotten more for him than the 3 musketeers.

 

[VF21]

Ok, come on. I've gone out of my way to acknowledge that even though I'm pro-trade there are good arguments to be made against the trade. You can be a big boy and admit that there are some good things to be said about the deal even if you don't agree with it.

Even if it's a season sooner at least the $10 million comes off sooner. That's an advantage. If we were on the hook for Webber's $20 million what would we do this offseason? We would have no flexiliby to re-sign Bibby or improve the team without incurring the tax. So now we have the ability to keep Bibby and actually improve the team. That's not an advantage?

And yeah, Kenny is still on the books, but the Sixers are left with a bad option themselves: either let Webber's contract expire and have absolutley nothing to show for the Webber era (and that supposedly valuable $20 millions ender) or take on a Kenny-esque player. If the Sixers try and salvage their end they could very well be paying a Kenny esque bad contract longer than the Kings.

The Kings will be able to sign Artest and Martin given the anticipated rise of the tax and the future financial situation. They don't need a $20 million expiring contract to do it.

I tried to keep quiet but this is just silly. Why not just suck it up and admit you - and Geoff Petrie and the Maloofs - were wrong?

Mike Bibby, Kevin Martin, Ron Artest, Chris Webber and Brad Miller...

No matter what kind of spin you or the other trade advocates try to put on it, that is one helluva starting five.

 

[sloter]

Mike Bibby, Kevin Martin, Ron Artest, Chris Webber and Brad Miller...

And the slowest frontcourt in the league. Imagine those two trying to catch up with Amare and Marion. Pfff...

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

That's kind of a red herring; No power forward/center in the league can keep up with a healthy Stoudemire.

Besides, Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy are the slowest frontcourt in the league.

 

[G_M]

That's kind of a red herring; No power forward/center in the league can keep up with a healthy Stoudemire.

Besides, Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy are the slowest frontcourt in the league.

I do know that Webber is currently stauesque in his ability to rotate and get back in transition defense. If anyone has ACTUALLY seen him play this year he does not seem to be moving well. I suppose that's why his minutes are down so far this year.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I saw him play against Toronto, and he looked quite well. I thought that it was kind of funny the way that they portrayed Bosh hitting that three to make it look like Webber was playing poor defense, when in actuality, Webber had caused him to lose possession of the ball, and put him in a position where he had to scramble to retrieve it, and then throw up a desperation three over a defender's hand with time running out. Besides which, Dalembert was the one who was actually defending Bosh until he fouled out.