KingsCitizen
Starter
NO is league-owned. That means 29 NBA owners have 1/29 share on this team. Hate it if you want but it's their money that's surviving the Hornets right now and they hold the right to decide which trade to take or not.
Chris Paul is a shameless copycat
- Thread starter Vlade4GM
- Start date
NO is league-owned. That means 29 NBA owners have 1/29 share on this team. Hate it if you want but it's their money that's surviving the Hornets right now and they hold the right to decide which trade to take or not.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
You know, superstar collusion aside, I think there are signs that the new CBA is working. See Cuban on twitter:
Per http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm
Per http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm
Rookie
Starter
I'm not sure. If they can get another star and get to 2nd-3rd round maybe there's a chance CP3 might stay with them. I'm just saying that there might be a small chance of hope.
And if CP3 does leave atleast they're not stuck with being mediocre. Meaning they can barely make the playoff but too good for a top draft pick. I think that's what they get if they get Scola, Martin, and Odom.
You mean the team doesn't want to wallow in mediocrity? The only hope a small market team has is to build through the draft and get lucky here and there. We should know this all too well. By settling for B listers and constantly flirting with the 8th seed, your team is never going to improve. I think allowing Paul to walk would be the best move. The Lakers would then have to figure out another way to dump salary and contracts in order to fit Paul into the mix, and the Hornets could end up with some great prospects (if they draft wisely) that could pan out in the future.
DocHolliday
Starter
I think it was reported last night that this trade would have netted the Lakers paul and $40 mill in salary+tax. That tax money goes to the revenue sharing to other teams. That's partially what teams were mad about, and the other part is the rich get richer.
This whole time during the CBA negotiations the NBA's stance was "We want a system that will make it more even, and more equal when it comes to smaller market teams competing with larger market teams. Then as soon as you have a deal the Lakers add Chris Paul?
Well that doesn't look very good to the public now does it? The Lakers get an All-Star AND save money in salary and tax which in turn takes money away from the pot that would be going to those smaller market teams. The league office can say that the owners didn't block this trade all they want, and it was just for "Basketball reasons". Yeah those basketball reasons were it would take money away from the pot that goes to all the teams, and it would make the NBA look really bad after what they said during the CBA negotiations. Those can be summed up as "Basketball reasons".
This whole time during the CBA negotiations the NBA's stance was "We want a system that will make it more even, and more equal when it comes to smaller market teams competing with larger market teams. Then as soon as you have a deal the Lakers add Chris Paul?
Well that doesn't look very good to the public now does it? The Lakers get an All-Star AND save money in salary and tax which in turn takes money away from the pot that would be going to those smaller market teams. The league office can say that the owners didn't block this trade all they want, and it was just for "Basketball reasons". Yeah those basketball reasons were it would take money away from the pot that goes to all the teams, and it would make the NBA look really bad after what they said during the CBA negotiations. Those can be summed up as "Basketball reasons".
Vlade4GM
All-Star
They're not supposed to be making decisions for the Hornets with the league's agenda, that's a conflict of interest. Even if you want to say they had the right to do this as owners of the team, then there was a huge problem with them buying the team in the first place. If they couldn't resolve a conflict of interest in them running the team, then they had no business taking it over. What's next? They don't want Howard to leave Orlando, so they'll buy them too and stop a trade there? This is insane.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
Can they do that? I don't see how the Hornets can be allowed to make some moves and then not make other moves.
If each owner owns a part of the team, then literally every move he Hornets make will negatively effect the team they own individually. How are the Hornets going to sign anyone? isn't that taking a player away from another team who may want him?
If they decide to after Nene, isn't every other NBA owner going to go cry to Stern?
Vlade4GM
All-Star
That's a matter of mere taste in what direction is the best way to go, that's way too subjective to say that this deal should be forcibly shut down. Trying to judge it objectively as possible, NOH got a lot of nice pieces. Dragic (25) is a decent young PG, they got a first round pick from HOU, Kevin Martin (28) is one of the better scorers at SG , Scola (31) puts up 18 and 9 in the post , and Odom (32) would put up about 14 and 10 as a starter. Yeah, that's not a great rebuilding package, but some teams do legitimately prefer to take on packages like this, especially when all these players are very tradeable themselves. That leaves them a starting lineup of Okafor/Scola/Odom/Martin/Dragic, and it leaves them with the option of moving all those players for other pieces if they want.
I'm not saying this is the ideal trade. I'm asking is it so objectively bad, given all that's happened, that it needed to be squashed despite their GM working to put that trade together?
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Vlade4GM
All-Star
Yeah, they "added" Chris Paul to Kobe and Bynum, that's so objectively worse than what happened in NY, or Miami, or what could happen in NJ.
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I agree with what was done here and think Dan Gilbert raised some very valid points. The Lakers are capped out now and nobody should allow a deal that gives them cap flexibility AND a superstar talent. C'mon, if this deal was for Cousins or Reke we'd be screaming bloody murder.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
And if the league made it so you couldn't trade them at all, and they were going to leave after a year, what would you scream then?
We went through a period of putting bandaids on knife wounds over the last 10 years. It sucked.
And again "the league" isn't doing anything to block an independently owned team from doing its business. "The league" is exercising democracy on a team it owns.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
The same league allowed us to get Marcus Thornton for Carl Landry. The Hornets ADDED salary in that deal.
It's all or nothing as far as I'm concerned. Let them do everything or let them do nothing. They already let them make moves .. its garbage for the NBA to step in now and say no.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
They're dictating what the team does because other owners don't like where Paul is going. It's not the owners saying, "you're spending our money" or "you're ruining the team's value" they're saying "you're giving too much to the Lakers." That's a huge conflict of interest when they're supposed to be allowing the Hornets to function in its best interests, which is why Stern is playing the "Hornets are more valuable as they are than they would've been with this deal" card, even though it's BS because Paul is leaving no matter what. They've essentially made it impossible for Paul to be traded now, there is no player or package they can get that will replace his economic value.
Uhh, yeah... that's obviously the same thing??? I know all the kids that sleep with their Marcus Thornton posters were devastated.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
It may in fact have been the negative reaciton to allowing that trade that fueled the CP3 trade stoppage. But in any case its obviously numerous degrees more significant in Paul's case.
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HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
Deal was bad for the Hornets. They take on a ton of salary when the league is trying to sell the team. Why? Only to be a treadmill team, missing the playoffs and getting the 14th pick year after year. Why would any prospective owner want that?
And it would be all of the owners footing the bill. Don't be deluded into thinking this was for any "basketball" reason. This is all about money.
And it would be all of the owners footing the bill. Don't be deluded into thinking this was for any "basketball" reason. This is all about money.
But who says it is in the Hornets best interest to take on a bunch of B level talents and lose a superstar?
Short term? They will probably put more butts in the seats with a bonafide superstar. Long term? They will be a middle of the road team picking in the middle of the lottery instead of being a sucky team that gets a crack at another star in a year or two.
Also, unless teams are willing to broker these kinds of deals like Houston apparently is, who is to say that CP3 can get a better deal with a team he really likes next year? What if his choices are re-signing with NO or coming to Sac or another small market team with space? Maybe in that case he chooses to stay. Remember when there was no way ever that Webber would re-sign? If teams have to constantly live in fear of their players it is a nightmare. Here is a team's ownership, and yeah, in this case it is "the league" saying "NO!". If they want holdouts and trade demands they can have no guaranteed contracts and live in fear of being cut every single minute like an NFL player does.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
So thats what its about? Popularity? Isn't that even worse then just saying 'You guys cannot make any deals until you get a new owner"?
If we get a solid report that says all of the owners voted on it and the vote came up in favor of keeping Paul in New Orleans then fine, I'm ok with it. Thats a legit way of keeping him their.
But just letting Stern dictate which moves the Hornets can and cannot make is beyond dumb. As Woj said in a tweet, the timestamp on Gilberts email to Stern was AFTER the trade was called off. This was a Stern move, and that is wrong.
Because maybe Gilbert wasn't the only owner that rejected it?
And yeah, a player's popularity (and talent level, in which CP3 is MILES above Thornton, come on here!) do dictate these things. CP3 sells tickets. Marcus Thornton... well, there were people here vocally against that deal. He may have turned out to be a good fit, but he isn't selling tickets and if he leaves he'll be lucky to see 2 pages in a thank you thread.
And yeah, a player's popularity (and talent level, in which CP3 is MILES above Thornton, come on here!) do dictate these things. CP3 sells tickets. Marcus Thornton... well, there were people here vocally against that deal. He may have turned out to be a good fit, but he isn't selling tickets and if he leaves he'll be lucky to see 2 pages in a thank you thread.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Do you seriously think that Dan Gilbert of all people chose to initially voice his extreme displeasure with the move via email?
I don't think you scream at Stern. I have heard he is a screamer himself. But I am sure he was getting an earful from somebody to let things go so far and then suddenly stop them.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Dell Demps does, their GM.
Exactly, they're pushing league agenda through their ownership of a franchise, i.e. a giant conflict of interest. Whether you think it happens to make them better off, is beside the point.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
No, but why send the email if you already talked to him? Whatever, trying to figure out what or how Dan Gilbert thinks is a waste of time.
I'd still like to see a vote. At the very least, if the owners vote against it then this can all be put to rest. No more speculation or other BS the league does NOT need right now. Seriously .. coming out of a lockout this is the first storyline of the season?
And now reports are the Nets owner had dinner with Dwight in Miami on thursday .. obvious tampering. What the hell guys, seriously?
Dell Demps doesn't own the franchise. I find it extremely likely that the next owner of the franchise will side with the other owners on this one. If the league didn't own the team Demps would have to get approval of his ownership to pull the trigger. Ownership didn't approve.
Exactly. GP doesn't get to do anything he wants, he has to get MSE to sign off on it.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You have to worry about that one a bit just in that is that Russian culture shock coming from the anything goes Euro sports culture? Or even Russian disdain for the rules?
kingsnation
All-Star
Well, unfortunately for all the good Stern has done for the NBA, this is the bad that has come with it. This sort of crap is what the NBA has turned into in the past decade. I have never seen so many faces or superstars of a league dictate where they want to play or go. Ever. The whole thing is a joke. But that's what brings in the money, right? Who's trading for Chris Paul? Well, he'll only go to about 3 or 4 different teams so does it really matter? Selfish. But again that's been nurtured in the league for the past 10 years. Who makes the money? Who's in the All Star game? Only few of them rarely deserve it. What's making headlines? It's NEVER "What's D12 doing to help improve Orlando?" It's ALWAYS "How long until D12 is traded? Or will he just let his contract expire?" It's just so sad that the NBA has come to this.
Of course, then there's the leadership of the NBA. We should've seen this coming years ago honestly. From an owner that expects ZERO accountability from his referees even after they've been accused of breaking the law, should tell us something. Was what happened yesterday wrong? I'm not so sure since they are a league-owned team. But this kind of situation should've been anticipated when they agreed to buy the team.
The fact of the matter is this: We finally witnessed David Stern losing control of his league. The superstars go only where they want. The city of New Orleans and it's fans are getting lost in the shuffle of The NBA vs Chris Paul and they will eventually probably lose their team. This was a sad day on many levels for the NBA not just because we witnessed more corruption from this league but also because we should've seen this day coming.
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Just to further the point, let's say you are Larry Ellison or Phil Knight or some other big time billionaire with an ego the size of Texas... Are the Hornets worth more to you with Chris Paul and 15 wins this season or a bunch of serviceable but relatively anonymous guys and 25 wins? Big time billionaire is sure he can get Paul to come around because he always wins at the negotiating table. Having Paul on the roster is a major asset when it comes to the selling price of the team.
captain bill
All-Star
Great Bill Simmons article on the entire situation:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7334835/the-sixth-day-nba-christmas
Stern explicitly and repeatedly said that he would not step in, and that all trades were at Demps' discretion. If Stern wanted to be involved in the process, he should have said so from the beginning.
Stern needs to go. He's accomplished the enviable feat of being hated by every fanbase in the league, and now all the major writers, commentators, and owners. He has injected himself into basketball affairs far too often, has never been able to appear impartial, and has overseen some of the largest blunders in sports (from ref scandals to the botched Kings-to-Anaheim debacle, and now this). A commissioner should be an impartial manager that fans don't have to think twice about.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7334835/the-sixth-day-nba-christmas
Stern explicitly and repeatedly said that he would not step in, and that all trades were at Demps' discretion. If Stern wanted to be involved in the process, he should have said so from the beginning.
Stern needs to go. He's accomplished the enviable feat of being hated by every fanbase in the league, and now all the major writers, commentators, and owners. He has injected himself into basketball affairs far too often, has never been able to appear impartial, and has overseen some of the largest blunders in sports (from ref scandals to the botched Kings-to-Anaheim debacle, and now this). A commissioner should be an impartial manager that fans don't have to think twice about.
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