Ceasefire before the next volley?

KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#31
#31
Thibs feels like a lateral move in overall coaching quality, but with different strengths and weaknesses.
He is as stubborn as Karl and probably outdated when it comes to offense.
Of course when you think that all we need is someone, who teaches defense, than Thibs is your man.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#32
#32
If the Kings fire Karl and they replace him with any one of the assistants (pick the best in your own mind), then what do you think the outcome is for the rest of the season?
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#33
#33
KingsFanGER said:
Thibs feels like a lateral move in overall coaching quality, but with different strengths and weaknesses.
He is as stubborn as Karl and probably outdated when it comes to offense.
Of course when you think that all we need is someone, who teaches defense, than Thibs is your man.
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i've said it many times before, but a team that competes on the defensive end every night gives themselves a chance to win most every game, regardless of whether or not they're the most talented team on the court (those celtics that just smacked down the kings would serve as a good example of a team that commits to defense and wins despite a lack of star talent). however, a team hell bent on trying to outscore the opposition every night at the expense of defensive effort night really doesn't put themselves in a position to win every game, because you need only win by a single point. it's why scoring 110 is so unimpressive if you're the kings, because they're likely giving up at least 115 in that situation. so, given the option between an offensive ideologue and a defensive ideologue, i'll take the latter any day of the week. at least under thibs, you know a team is going to be well-prepared and that they're going to have to give maximum effort on defense...
 
VladFather

VladFather

Prospect
#35
#35
I do not understand the point in waiting until the All Star game to fire Karl. All indications are that he's gone, most likely at the All Star break, but instead of ripping off the band aid, we continue to slowly pull it off and as a result, cause more pain and delay the healing process. Get it done already...
 
M

mac

All-Star
#38
#38
Padrino said:
the knicks just fired derek fisher this morning, and kurt rambis has been named their interim head coach. now, i'm not claiming that the knicks constitute "a way better coaching position," but it is new york, and it will always present a magnetism as an nba city, no matter how long it's been since they've had any real success. so while i disagree with you about most everything else, i do agree that you have to pursue tom thibodeau hard and fast. if george karl's firing is inevitable, then at this point it's best to just close the book on the brief karl era in sacramento, and no later than the all-star break. there will be other firings across the league. there will be plenty of suitors for a head coach as well-regarded as thibs. and given his existing relationships with cuz, rondo, and rudy, you'd be hard pressed to find another head coaching candidate who would enter the kings' locker room with instant credibility and a mandate to demand discipline. i don't know if thibs would be the "perfect fit," but i do know that george karl is a poor fit with this team, and considering the kings' currently abysmal defensive system and effort, thibodeau is the guy i'd want steering the ship when the new arena opens next season...
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FWIW there was a tweet that sources close to Thibbs said the New York position would be his dream
 
M

mac

All-Star
#39
#39
Padrino said:
i've said it many times before, but a team that competes on the defensive end every night gives themselves a chance to win most every game, regardless of whether or not they're the most talented team on the court (those celtics that just smacked down the kings would serve as a good example of a team that commits to defense and wins despite a lack of star talent). however, a team hell bent on trying to outscore the opposition every night at the expense of defensive effort night really doesn't put themselves in a position to win every game, because you need only win by a single point. it's why scoring 110 is so unimpressive if you're the kings, because they're likely giving up at least 115 in that situation. so, given the option between an offensive ideologue and a defensive ideologue, i'll take the latter any day of the week. at least under thibs, you know a team is going to be well-prepared and that they're going to have to give maximum effort on defense...
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Celtics defense that gave up 120 points and 37 in the first Q?
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#40
#40
mac said:
Celtics defense that gave up 120 points and 37 in the first Q?
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much of that is due to the insane breakneck pace the kings prefer to play. i imagine most opponents understand that they'll give up a lot of points to this team. but they also know that if they lock down when it matters, they will win, because they also know they'll be able to post season highs and career highs on the kings with very little effort...
 
Jerichoholic

Jerichoholic

Bench
#41
#41
Padrino said:
much of that is due to the insane breakneck pace the kings prefer to play. i imagine most opponents understand that they'll give up a lot of points to this team. but they also know that if they lock down when it matters, they will win, because they also know they'll be able to post season highs and career highs on the kings with very little effort...
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Exactly! The amount of points scored is really never a great indicator of the success of an offense. It's more about efficiency. I will always give up 30 points to score 40 points. Much easier than a grinding effort of working hard to give up 18 points to score 22 points, but against good teams that what you have to do. See it looks like the team that scores 30 is far better than the one who scores 18, but it's actually the opposite. Points are really just about pace, success is about wins and margin of victory. Yesterday the Celtics knew they could coast most of the game, scoring easily and when it came to the end their defense could stop our offense because the truth is that our offense is really not that good. However they also knew that our poor defense could never stop their offense.

This team is not built to play at this pace. We have poor perimeter defenders, horrible transition defense, and average at best outside shooting. Missed outside shots result in transition opportunities for the other team and we can't get back in time to stop them. Increasing the pace like we do only creates more opportunities for the other team to take advantage of our poor defensive players. If we had the players on the Warriors we could play more that way, those players will be more efficient offensively which results in more points, but also more times the opponent has to take the ball out underneath the basket as opposed to running in transition.
 
Kings_of_California

Kings_of_California

Starter
#45
#45
The Knicks pulled the plug on Fisher, and I think that might be in part due to our plans to inevitably show Karl the door.

It was a smart move on their part, and it looks like they will for sure get Thibs.

You could argue we have way more young talent to work with on this team, but the allure of coaching in NY probably outweighs that for a lot of people.

I really wanted Thibs (for the sake of our defense), but can't blame a guy for wanting to coach in Madison Square Garden.

Honestly, even if we had fired Karl earlier, Thibs was probably going to NY anyway.
 
HndsmCelt

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#46
#46
Jonas Schwartz asked Phil about Tibbs and PJ said he is not soliciting coaching right now... for what that is worth. I will say as attractive as NY is as a destination, I can't see Tibbs wanting to be a slave to PJ's triangle and with out a solid big who can pass.
Jonas Schwartz ‏@Jonas_SNY 41m41 minutes ago
No doubt @PhilJackson11 didn't love my question reaching out 2 Tom Thibodeau. After a long pause Said he's not soliciting coaches right now
 
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D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#48
#48
I'd be surprised if the Knicks hire wasn't a guy like Luke Walton or Shaw or some other triangle offense crony. I expect Walton to be Phil's guy.....not Thibs.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#49
#49
Yeah, the Thibs rumor is...well maybe. It could make some sense. Has the right personality for the City, but then again if you have been around here for any length of time you know that New York sportwriters like to claim every single coach, player, GM or anything else always wants to play in New York because, well, we're New York!

Meanwhile, from a basketball standpoint Thibs is not necessarily a good fit. Phil and his triangle figure to continue. Fisher did some of it. Rambis certainly will as a guy so dedicated to it he screwed up his Minnesota job over it. Shaw is out there. And Luke Walton is one of Phil's cronies too, and figures to be one of the hottest coaching candidates of the offseason. Remember too, that New York might be the only franchise in the league who can rival Sacto for craziest owner honors. So Thibs to New York...maybe.

On the other hand if we were serious and offered him a big deal to come coach Cuz...

I'm actually just as concerned with Vivek's amateur hourness as anything else. Concerned tthat rather than make a smart move he might legitimately want to score social media points by hiring Lieberman, and then possibly be holding up everything due to plans to fire Vlade and everybody else to make room for a massive Calipari coach/GM push in the offseason. Solid basketball moves, solid basketball coaches, sensible construction and team building etc. have no attraction when you are a casual fan owner half a step from the Maloofs reality TV sensibilities.
 
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P

Peter_Gibbons

Starter
#50
#50
Bricklayer said:
Yeah, the Thibs rumor is...well maybe. It could some sense. Has the right personality for the City, but then again if you have been around here for any length of time you know that New York sportwriters like to claim every single coach, player, GM or anything else always wants to play in New York because, well, we're New York!

Meanwhile, from a basketball standpoint Thibs is not necessarily a good fit. Phil and his triangle figure to continue. Fisher did some of it. Rambis certainly will as a guy so dedicated to it he screwed up his Minnesota job over it. Shaw is out there. And Luke Walton is one of Phil's cronies too, and figures to be one of the hottest coaching candidates of the offseason. Remember too, that New York might be the only franchise in the league who can rival Sacto for craziest owner honors. So Thibs to New York...maybe.

On the other hand if we were serious and offered him a big deal to come coach Cuz...

I'm actually just as concerned with Vivek's amateur hourness as anything else. Concerned tthat rather than make a smart move he might legitimately want to score social media points by hiring Lieberman, and then possibly be holding up everything due to plans to fire Vlade and everybody else to make room for a massive Calipari coach/GM push in the offseason. Solid basketball moves, solid basketball coaches, sensible construction and team building etc. have no attraction when you are a casual fan owner half a step from the Maloofs reality TV sensibilities.
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I can see Phil going after Walton, but didn't Phil said early in the season that they stopped playing the triangle?
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#51
#51
Peter_Gibbons said:
I can see Phil going after Walton, but didn't Phil said early in the season that they stopped playing the triangle?
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Fisher.

Note, however, the constant rumors of triangle guys being on Phil's list might be just media speculation too. If its an easy and logical leap that you or I could make, they'll make it and publish it under "sources".
 
John Galt

John Galt

Starter
#53
#53
Bricklayer said:
Concerned that rather than make a smart move he might legitimately want to score social media points by hiring Lieberman, and then possibly be holding up everything due to plans to fire Vlade and everybody else to make room for a massive Calipari coach/GM push in the offseason.
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That is exactly what I believe is on Vivek's mind - to the letter.
 
Iced Espresso

Iced Espresso

Starter
#56
#56
I wonder if the "spared" or "extra" time is just so they can negotiate with someone they have in mind. Also if that's not the case, or if they fail there if they were trying, its more fair to whoever the interim is.
 
steelevt

steelevt

All-Star
#57
#57
Bricklayer said:
Now what could Karl possibly do against Philadelphia to change their mind? What if we beat Philly by 20? What if we held the mighty Sixers to less than 100? Its nonsensical.
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Maybe he asked them to let him try to get one more win and he will retire due to illness. Maybe they want to interim to get the Allstar break to prepare. Or maybe they figured they already paid for his plane ticket to Philly.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#58
#58
Iced Espresso said:
I wonder if the "spared" or "extra" time is just so they can negotiate with someone they have in mind. Also if that's not the case, or if they fail there if they were trying, its more fair to whoever the interim is.
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I think the waiting part is to give Corliss a chance to have a few practices with the team where he can start implementing changes than anything else to be honest.

As Bruski said, Karl should have been told to change things 10 games in. If he didn't you make the change there and then. We are now waiting and blowing any chance we had of a play off spot right out of the water. We are 0-3 on this trip and a very good chance of going 0-4. Ever since that 2OT loss to Charlotte, it has been downhill for us. Waiting an extra game robs us even further of making the run.

Even if we fired him now, I think we would need to go something like 19-11 the rest of the way to make the play offs. I am not sure we have it in us at this late stage to pull it off. I guess they are now thinking about keeping that pick yet again :mad:
 
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