Carmichael Dave on the situation of the Kings

#61
Sounds like something that would come straight from the PDA/Mullin camp. They have bent over backwards to let him know he's the center of the universe by firing the one coach who had them playing with at least a little bit of success, the one coach he and his teammates were all in with.....and fired him 1/4 into the season that started showing some promise. Nonsense.
And talked him up from the minute he got here, gave him a max extension and now he's an All-Star.

Whether you like PDA/Mullin or not (and I assume most of us don't), their philosophy of an uptempo team didn't work with Michael Malone as the head coach. It certainly works better with George Karl. Doesn't that give DeMarcus a better chance of success?
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#62
And talked him up from the minute he got here, gave him a max extension and now he's an All-Star.

Whether you like PDA/Mullin or not (and I assume most of us don't), their philosophy of an uptempo team didn't work with Michael Malone as the head coach. It certainly works better with George Karl. Doesn't that give DeMarcus a better chance of success?
It never gave him a better chance. The philosophy was the poison. Karl is just the stinger of the bee still embedded and pumping it in after we crushed and discarded the rest of the insect. Now the question is can we tame the old man.
 
#63
It never gave him a better chance. The philosophy was the poison. Karl is just the stinger of the bee still embedded and pumping it in after we crushed and discarded the rest of the insect. Now the question is can we tame the old man.
This is interesting. Let's tame the guy who's had actual success in the league.

Maybe we should be listening to him. He didn't say the team should trade Cousins, he said that no player is untradeable. If this team isn't at least in listen mode, then they aren't diligent at their jobs.

I'm sure he'd be much happier keeping Cousins with some other pieces around him. My guess is his one concern is whether Cousins will ever make his teammates better - at his usage rate, he'll need to.
 
#64
It never gave him a better chance. The philosophy was the poison. Karl is just the stinger of the bee still embedded and pumping it in after we crushed and discarded the rest of the insect. Now the question is can we tame the old man.
He ran a mixed offensive system in Seattle, mixing up post-ups for Payton and Kemp and pushing transition with two quick offensive weapons. I'm not terribly worried about Karl doing offense right. I am concerned about getting the defensive buy-in Malone had from the team.
 
#65
Name them. Name the ones that had to still experience this kind of over the top dysfunction 5 years in and yet who somehow rose above.

And before you get started wasting your time know that I have a pretty comprehensive knowledge of the NBA for about the last 35 years.
He dealt with the tail end of the Maloofery to start his career like a true professional, stayed loyal to the City of Sacramento though all of it when everyone expect a trade demand.

List of coaches in first 5 years:
Paul Westphal
Keith Smart
Michael Malone
Tyrone Corbin
George Karl

Miss after miss nearly every year in the draft. No team in the league has wasted more lottery picks the last decade.

Front office bats year after year well below the Mendoza line in terms of trades and signings.

DMC is not the problem.

...DeMarcus Cousins has been the only consistant bright spot through the living hell that is being a Kings fan.

It's always darkest before the dawn.
George and Vlade will build a proper team around Cousins.
Cousins will start in the ASG.
Kings will squeak into the playoffs.
Cousins will dominate.

I can feel it.
 
#66
Speaking on Karl, his offense, Cousins, etc.

Karl had one little interesting nugget at the end of his media availability yesterday when he mentioned how Cousins / WCS can play together.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/6/12/8769641/george-karl-cauley-stein-offense
"DeMarcus is so good at the top and he [Cauley-Stein] could be underneath and his skills of offensive rebounding and running the court and getting up the court before the defense sets. And then DeMarcus could be a trail and run I call the ‘secondary quarterback' is usually the second big trailing the play," Karl said. "And all that could be very efficient and very effective."
Works for me. Defense sets, Kings go to their halfcourt offense, find Cousins. Push the pace, have WCS and Co. run the floor.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#67
And talked him up from the minute he got here, gave him a max extension and now he's an All-Star.

Whether you like PDA/Mullin or not (and I assume most of us don't), their philosophy of an uptempo team didn't work with Michael Malone as the head coach. It certainly works better with George Karl. Doesn't that give DeMarcus a better chance of success?
A philosophy of an up tempo team didn't work when paired with a grind it out coach and elite post player?

As for Karl, I'm assuming he'll make the best use of Cousins because he's willing to adapt, and because he's had an off season to think about it. What it looks like on the court will be anyone's guess. I remain cautiously optimistic.
 
#68
Just a couple things to add, first of which a few things from that audio from yesterday.
  • Still not completely sure who brought in George Karl, Ranadive or D'Alessandro, not cleared up yet.
  • If George Karl is not here at the end of the season, Divac probably fires Mullin and D'Alessandro immediately, Karl intervened and won.
  • This was discussed here already, Divac probably hires Malone back and what was wrong is finally undone.
  • Also discussed, Cousins and Karl don't seem to get along and it doesn't seem to be system related, more personal.

This is not good, I know things were falling apart last season when Corbin was coach and something had to be done, but perhaps if we had just been a little patient everything would have been made right. Not to mention that we could have gotten a new general manager in here much sooner than two weeks before the draft.

A couple more things taken from today's show, James Ham was on after watching draft workouts yesterday.
  • Was very clear about the fact that Ranadive was too meddling before and no longer is, he learned the lesson, has stepped aside, and it's time for us to accept it. Good news.
  • Disagreed with Carmichael Dave on the point that Cousins got along with D'Alessandro, said there relationship was becoming worse and worse and it's a positive for Cousins that he's gone.
  • Doesn't think the Cousins and Karl situation is as bad as being reported, still time to fix, but needs to happen soon. Also good news.
  • Kings a little thin in the front office, especially with draft evaluation, hopefully doesn't hurt us again.

Seemed more positive, let's hope Cousins and Karl can get things worked out, sooner than later.
 
#69
Although I've come to enjoy Cuz as a person and a player, and he's obviously an incredible talent, I'm not a true believer that Cuz is the only path forward for the Kings to have success.
after nearly ten years of ineptitude, futility, and self-sabotage, i'm continually amazed at the hubris of some who seem to believe that the next franchise player is just around the corner. the kings could have a top-3 pick in the next five drafts (hell, in the next ten drafts) and still fail to come away with an honest-to-goodness franchise talent. this team has had a half-decade to get it right with big cuz, and they've blown it so spectacularly that i still cannot for the life of me understand why demarcus hasn't demanded a trade yet. not one soul would blame him, even if we were to take his shaky reputation into consideration. if sacramento weren't such a sad little basketball backwater, we'd be seeing "free boogie" signs all across the nba...

now, from a semantic standpoint, you're certainly right that demarcus isn't "the only path forward for the kings to have success," but i can hardly imagine a better one or a more likely one, and i'll offer a really simple solution for forging that path to success with demarcus cousins on board: all you have to do is stop shooting yourself in the foot every other month. the number of self-inflicted f***-ups that have occurred in the last two years is absolutely staggering. here's just ten that i can think of off the top of my head...

1) overpaying a past-his-prime carl landry. 2) failing to get an adequate return on tyreke evans via sign and trade. 3) blowing back-to-back lottery picks on sg's who weren't nba-ready in a half-assed attempt to mimic the warriors' outside shooting dynamic. 4) vindictively firing a lead scout for disagreeing about the second of those two draft picks. 5) failing to get anything in return for isaiah thomas via sign and trade. 6) circumventing the head coach's authority by attempting (and then failing!) to poach alvin gentry away from another team in order to place him on the kings' bench in the likely event that he could eventually be promoted to head coach. 7) vindictively firing the team's head coach anyway despite the fact that he was achieving legitimate success, convincing his team to buy into a defensive philosophy, and forging a strong relationship with the team's franchise center. 8) tagging his lead assistant as the "interim" head coach only to institute him as the "permanent" head coach weeks before firing him altogether in order to hire an aging replacement with health concerns and a massive ego who is likely to clash with the team's franchise center. 9) actively creating disharmony within the ranks of the front office in the most pathetic of power plays. 10) perpetually leaking stories to the press in the contemporary nba's least successful attempt at damage control ever. the list just goes on and on and on and on. none among the world's greatest PR representatives could have made this sh** palatable for even the least discerning of kings fans...

if the new regime had been merely average in their charge of rebuilding this franchise, rather than woefully, selfishly, and vindictively incompetent, then i'd say you could refer to some around these parts as "drama queens." but it's as if some kings fans have become so accustomed to disappointment that they can no longer recognize just how bad things have been. with nothing more than adequate performances from this franchise's decision-makers, perhaps we wouldn't be sitting here wondering how much more demarcus cousins will take before he decides a trade demand is the only reasonable avenue left for him to pursue. but we weren't fortunate enough to have adequate decision-makers arrive in sacramento after years of maloofery had finally come to an end; we got stuck with chris mullin, pete d'alessandro, and an owner who couldn't look more out of his depth if he were riding a kids' bicycle with the training wheels still on...

thankfully, vlade divac isn't an idiot. as he was quoted in ailene voison's most recent piece, "Two plus two is still four. Right now our focus has to be on drafting wisely, finding good talent, and putting together a team that has good chemistry." there is reason to hope that something can be salvaged from the past two years' worth of shocking idiocy, but personally, i'm not keen to wait around another half-decade or more for this team to build a winner if they can't figure out how to not sabotage the best chance they have at success. a franchise that completely squanders the talent of a once-in-a-generation big man (and one with the potential to be a future hall of famer) does not, in my estimation, deserve another path forward to that success...
 
#70
after nearly ten years of ineptitude, futility, and self-sabotage, i'm continually amazed at the hubris of some who seem to believe that the next franchise player is just around the corner. the kings could have a top-3 pick in the next five drafts (hell, in the next ten drafts) and still fail to come away with an honest-to-goodness franchise talent. this team has had a half-decade to get it right with big cuz, and they've blown it so spectacularly that i still cannot for the life of me understand why demarcus hasn't demanded a trade yet. not one soul would blame him, even if we were to take his shaky reputation into consideration. if sacramento weren't such a sad little basketball backwater, we'd be seeing "free boogie" signs all across the nba...

now, from a semantic standpoint, you're certainly right that demarcus isn't "the only path forward for the kings to have success," but i can hardly imagine a better one or a more likely one, and i'll offer a really simple solution for forging that path to success with demarcus cousins on board: all you have to do is stop shooting yourself in the foot every other month. the number of self-inflicted f***-ups that have occurred in the last two years is absolutely staggering. here's just ten that i can think of off the top of my head...

1) overpaying a past-his-prime carl landry. 2) failing to get an adequate return on tyreke evans via sign and trade. 3) blowing back-to-back lottery picks on sg's who weren't nba-ready in a half-assed attempt to mimic the warriors' outside shooting dynamic. 4) vindictively firing a lead scout for disagreeing about the second of those two draft picks. 5) failing to get anything in return for isaiah thomas via sign and trade. 6) circumventing the head coach's authority by attempting (and then failing!) to poach alvin gentry away from another team in order to place him on the kings' bench in the likely event that he could eventually be promoted to head coach. 7) vindictively firing the team's head coach anyway despite the fact that he was achieving legitimate success, convincing his team to buy into a defensive philosophy, and forging a strong relationship with the team's franchise center. 8) tagging his lead assistant as the "interim" head coach only to institute him as the "permanent" head coach weeks before firing him altogether in order to hire an aging replacement with health concerns and a massive ego who is likely to clash with the team's franchise center. 9) actively creating disharmony within the ranks of the front office in the most pathetic of power plays. 10) perpetually leaking stories to the press in the contemporary nba's least successful attempt at damage control ever. the list just goes on and on and on and on. none among the world's greatest PR representatives could have made this sh** palatable for even the least discerning of kings fans...

if the new regime had been merely average in their charge of rebuilding this franchise, rather than woefully, selfishly, and vindictively incompetent, then i'd say you could refer to some around these parts as "drama queens." but it's as if some kings fans have become so accustomed to disappointment that they can no longer recognize just how bad things have been. with nothing more than adequate performances from this franchise's decision-makers, perhaps we wouldn't be sitting here wondering how much more demarcus cousins will take before he decides a trade demand is the only reasonable avenue left for him to pursue. but we weren't fortunate enough to have adequate decision-makers arrive in sacramento after years of maloofery had finally come to an end; we got stuck with chris mullin, pete d'alessandro, and an owner who couldn't look more out of his depth if he were riding a kids' bicycle with the training wheels still on...

thankfully, vlade divac isn't an idiot. as he was quoted in ailene voison's most recent piece, "Two plus two is still four. Right now our focus has to be on drafting wisely, finding good talent, and putting together a team that has good chemistry." there is reason to hope that something can be salvaged from the past two years' worth of shocking idiocy, but personally, i'm not keen to wait around another half-decade or more for this team to build a winner if they can't figure out how to not sabotage the best chance they have at success. a franchise that completely squanders the talent of a once-in-a-generation big man (and one with the potential to be a future hall of famer) does not, in my estimation, deserve another path forward to that success...
Well said! I think the definition of "digging the hole deeper" is D'Alessandro's career here. Covering one mistake with another mistake, a lie with another lie, that's all we became, a joke as a result.

Just think how things could have been different with a general manager who shared Malone's philosophy. Carl Landry isn't here. Perhaps Tyreke Evans still is, if he is not perhaps Robin Lopez is. We may have Elfrid Payton instead of Nik Stauskas. Even this year with Karl instead of Malone, in my opinion Karl goes with someone other Cauley-Stein, Malone takes him. What a defensive powerhouse we could have built. Instead we are back to square one and I don't believe that Karl's philosophy and this roster fit together, Cousins included.

Look how important a player like Cousins would be in the NBA Finals right now. In the playoffs when the referees let them play a little harder you really see how good a player like Cousins is. We just somehow need to get to that point.
 
#71
A couple more things taken from today's show, James Ham was on after watching draft workouts yesterday.
  • Kings a little thin in the front office, especially with draft evaluation, hopefully doesn't hurt us again.
Yes we are! A lot more than a little thin. Glad Ham acknowledged the elephant in the room.

We've got a life long 2nd or 3rd banana front office man and two GM rookies giving our nosy owner advice, we're picking a spot in the draft where the talent drops the prospects like Portzingis, Mudiay and Winslow need to be evaluated very well and expertly for their long term bust and All-Star potential which aren't obvious. Odds favor that we won't make the playoffs next year, but will convey our pick the Bulls so this is probably our last lottery pick before we either "figure it out" or "start over."
As the only small market team in the NBA without revenue sharing (starting next season) it's really frustrating to watch this group make things harder with poor ownership (not just Vivek first two years but the non-harmonious minority owners that Dave and James keep pointing out); below average front office; and rushing the process of getting good regardless of the conditions and likely outcomes.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#72
This is interesting. Let's tame the guy who's had actual success in the league....AND got fired from his last job for some apparently unimportant reason.
Fixed it for you.

George Karl isn't perfect. I'm very happy he's here but let's not delude ourselves. He comes with his own set of luggage, as do all successful coaches who have come onto the market. To think otherwise is just silly.

Do I look on Karl the same way as my esteemed fellow moderator? Nope. I think the "old fart" can adapt his philosophy to make the best use of our franchise center. But I'm not going to lie to myself and not have at least a few butterflies.

Do I look on Cousins the same was as you do? Oh hell no - and I'm getting pretty tired of people who aren't willing to discuss the whole picture instead of what puts him in the worst light.

Cousins and Karl need to get on the same page for everyone's best interests. And we fans need to give them a chance to do it without the shadows of PDA/Mullins and whomever else might have gotten in the way...
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#73
after nearly ten years of ineptitude, futility, and self-sabotage, i'm continually amazed at the hubris of some who seem to believe that the next franchise player is just around the corner. the kings could have a top-3 pick in the next five drafts (hell, in the next ten drafts) and still fail to come away with an honest-to-goodness franchise talent. this team has had a half-decade to get it right with big cuz, and they've blown it so spectacularly that i still cannot for the life of me understand why demarcus hasn't demanded a trade yet. not one soul would blame him, even if we were to take his shaky reputation into consideration. if sacramento weren't such a sad little basketball backwater, we'd be seeing "free boogie" signs all across the nba...

now, from a semantic standpoint, you're certainly right that demarcus isn't "the only path forward for the kings to have success," but i can hardly imagine a better one or a more likely one, and i'll offer a really simple solution for forging that path to success with demarcus cousins on board: all you have to do is stop shooting yourself in the foot every other month. the number of self-inflicted f***-ups that have occurred in the last two years is absolutely staggering. here's just ten that i can think of off the top of my head...

1) overpaying a past-his-prime carl landry. 2) failing to get an adequate return on tyreke evans via sign and trade. 3) blowing back-to-back lottery picks on sg's who weren't nba-ready in a half-assed attempt to mimic the warriors' outside shooting dynamic. 4) vindictively firing a lead scout for disagreeing about the second of those two draft picks. 5) failing to get anything in return for isaiah thomas via sign and trade. 6) circumventing the head coach's authority by attempting (and then failing!) to poach alvin gentry away from another team in order to place him on the kings' bench in the likely event that he could eventually be promoted to head coach. 7) vindictively firing the team's head coach anyway despite the fact that he was achieving legitimate success, convincing his team to buy into a defensive philosophy, and forging a strong relationship with the team's franchise center. 8) tagging his lead assistant as the "interim" head coach only to institute him as the "permanent" head coach weeks before firing him altogether in order to hire an aging replacement with health concerns and a massive ego who is likely to clash with the team's franchise center. 9) actively creating disharmony within the ranks of the front office in the most pathetic of power plays. 10) perpetually leaking stories to the press in the contemporary nba's least successful attempt at damage control ever. the list just goes on and on and on and on. none among the world's greatest PR representatives could have made this sh** palatable for even the least discerning of kings fans...

if the new regime had been merely average in their charge of rebuilding this franchise, rather than woefully, selfishly, and vindictively incompetent, then i'd say you could refer to some around these parts as "drama queens." but it's as if some kings fans have become so accustomed to disappointment that they can no longer recognize just how bad things have been. with nothing more than adequate performances from this franchise's decision-makers, perhaps we wouldn't be sitting here wondering how much more demarcus cousins will take before he decides a trade demand is the only reasonable avenue left for him to pursue. but we weren't fortunate enough to have adequate decision-makers arrive in sacramento after years of maloofery had finally come to an end; we got stuck with chris mullin, pete d'alessandro, and an owner who couldn't look more out of his depth if he were riding a kids' bicycle with the training wheels still on...

thankfully, vlade divac isn't an idiot. as he was quoted in ailene voison's most recent piece, "Two plus two is still four. Right now our focus has to be on drafting wisely, finding good talent, and putting together a team that has good chemistry." there is reason to hope that something can be salvaged from the past two years' worth of shocking idiocy, but personally, i'm not keen to wait around another half-decade or more for this team to build a winner if they can't figure out how to not sabotage the best chance they have at success. a franchise that completely squanders the talent of a once-in-a-generation big man (and one with the potential to be a future hall of famer) does not, in my estimation, deserve another path forward to that success...
I'm quoting this in its entirety because a simple "like" just didn't express how much I agree with the sentiments expressed therein.
 
#74
Let's all just accept the fact that the ownership wants to play with PACE.

Hopefully, Vlade and Karl will orchestrate a PACE team more like the 2000 Kings than the D'Antoni Suns teams.

Karl is not a HOF coach for nothing. He knows how to get the best out of his players. DMC was putting up incredible numbers under Karl and the Kings were starting to show flashes.

Give Karl and DMC some time to gel and some better supporting players and I think the Kings can make a strong playoff run next year.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#75
Let's all just accept the fact that the ownership wants to play with PACE.

Hopefully, Vlade and Karl will orchestrate a PACE team more like the 2000 Kings than the D'Antoni Suns teams.

Karl is not a HOF coach for nothing. He knows how to get the best out of his players. DMC was putting up incredible numbers under Karl and the Kings were starting to show flashes.

Give Karl and DMC some time to gel and some better supporting players and I think the Kings can make a strong playoff run next year.
I would have "liked" this but I couldn't because of the PACE reference. If I could, I'd ban that word around here. It has been abused/misused/misunderstood so often it's become meaningless.
 
#76
Not really concerned about Cousins/Karl at this point. I imagine Boogie is using this off-time to refresh and clear after a chaotic season. Taiwan trip is good for that.

Weird that DMC and Pete had a relationship considering Pete ordered the Malone firing.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#77
Let's all just accept the fact that the ownership wants to play with PACE.

Hopefully, Vlade and Karl will orchestrate a PACE team more like the 2000 Kings than the D'Antoni Suns teams.

Karl is not a HOF coach for nothing. He knows how to get the best out of his players. DMC was putting up incredible numbers under Karl and the Kings were starting to show flashes.

Give Karl and DMC some time to gel and some better supporting players and I think the Kings can make a strong playoff run next year.
How about no? I acknowledge that it seems to be a thing with our front office, perhaps less so with Mullin and PDA slash and burning their way out. But my hope is still that they come to their senses and realize there's more to basketball than having the fastest team on the court or the team who can jack up the most shots. Is pace an important part of the game? Yes. Is faster necessarily better? Certainly not. It only matters to the extent that you understand what your team is, where your scoring opportunities will be, and you use your offensive possessions and defensive intensity to make the other team play at whichever pace most benefits you. Want to speed up the game? Apply backcourt pressure, use full-court outlet passes, shoot early in the clock, avoid post-ups. Want to slow the game down? Walk it up, set your defense in the half-court, throw the ball inside and back the defense down, get to the line. There are situations in the course of a game where each strategy can be beneficial. Chaining yourself to one tempo for the whole game because you believe it's the "right way" is a rather naive way to conceive of the game.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#78
Speaking on Karl, his offense, Cousins, etc.

Karl had one little interesting nugget at the end of his media availability yesterday when he mentioned how Cousins / WCS can play together.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/6/12/8769641/george-karl-cauley-stein-offense

Works for me. Defense sets, Kings go to their halfcourt offense, find Cousins. Push the pace, have WCS and Co. run the floor.
Yeah, I caught that. Pretty revealing. Hard not to want to parse words with Karl because he's had such a long history of being very open with the media so I was intrigued by a few of his statements.

One was that (in reference to Payne) the Kings had a need at backup PG. Now it could simply be that Karl figures a rookie is certainly not going to start for a team that wants to win OR it could imply that Karl thinks he has a starting PG in Collison.

My ears also perked up when Karl said it would be irresponsible of him to try and influence the draft pick since he didn't watch the college game to the extent that he'd feel comfortable stumping for one player over another. One way to look at that is as a positive - that he's not angling (at least publicly) for control over player personnel decisions. Or based on his subsequent comments about studying NBA rosters you might think that means Karl will be pushing for the Kings to trade the pick for someone he knows.

Lots of stuff to analyze in that short clip. George Karl is almost the anti-Jim Harbaugh with the media. Where you knew Harbaugh gave no substantive info and therefore his interviews were a waste of time for fans, Karl's interviews might be a waste of time for fans for the complete opposite reason - he gives out so much information that you're not really sure what to do with it.
 
#79
How about no? I acknowledge that it seems to be a thing with our front office, perhaps less so with Mullin and PDA slash and burning their way out. But my hope is still that they come to their senses and realize there's more to basketball than having the fastest team on the court or the team who can jack up the most shots. Is pace an important part of the game? Yes. Is faster necessarily better? Certainly not. It only matters to the extent that you understand what your team is, where your scoring opportunities will be, and you use your offensive possessions and defensive intensity to make the other team play at whichever pace most benefits you. Want to speed up the game? Apply backcourt pressure, use full-court outlet passes, shoot early in the clock, avoid post-ups. Want to slow the game down? Walk it up, set your defense in the half-court, throw the ball inside and back the defense down, get to the line. There are situations in the course of a game where each strategy can be beneficial. Chaining yourself to one tempo for the whole game because you believe it's the "right way" is a rather naive way to conceive of the game.
It's not me you need to convince, it is Vivek.

Hopefully now that PDA is gone, we will see a more controlled offense.

I think the goal would be to move the ball like Adelman's Kings of the early 2000's. DMC could be the triggerman/quarterback in the high post.
 
#80
Speaking on Karl, his offense, Cousins, etc.

Karl had one little interesting nugget at the end of his media availability yesterday when he mentioned how Cousins / WCS can play together.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/6/12/8769641/george-karl-cauley-stein-offense


Works for me. Defense sets, Kings go to their halfcourt offense, find Cousins. Push the pace, have WCS and Co. run the floor.
I still get the feeling that WCS will be gone by the time Kings pick. :(
 
#81
At this point the onus is on Cousins IMO. He's the common denominator of a dysfunctional franchise that's gone through multiple owners, coaches and countless numbers of players during his five seasons here. Well, him and JT.

George Karl is George Karl. He's not Paul Westphal or Kenny Natt or Keith Smart - he's going to be in the Hall of Fame. My guess is he's waiting to see if Cousins is truly a leader of this group, or if he's just the best player.

Time for Cousins to show whether "desire to win" is just a cliche tossed around by Kings fans to defend his behavior, or if it's the real deal.
I don't think onus means what you think it means.

Throughout all of this, Cousins is the only guy who's done his job, gotten better every year, and had to fight against all the chaos and instability. He's made himself into a second team all NBAer and an All-Star. Nobody wants to win more than Cousins. It's Vivek and the front office that have, up till this point, been the ones less concerned about winning, and more concerned about personal agendas and territory.

If you can't see that, I have to wonder what kool aid you've been drinking.

Sorry, I can't buy the idea of DeMarcus as a victim here. This franchise is dysfunctional certainly - it's also bent over backwards to let Boogie know he's the center of their universe. Plus, the player has been one of his own worst enemies over the five seasons he's here. Again, he's the common denominator through so much transition.

Karl's certainly a pain in the ass, much like many good to great coaches - so he's a successful pain in the ass. It would be refreshing to see DMC bridge the gap and show that he's the leader so many Kings fans claim he can be.

Anyway, I think it's dangerous to get into the black-and-white, either-or thing with these guys. They've all got to be professionals. I just think I'd have more confidence in Boogie as a cornerstone if he took the initiative here.
Cousins' worst enemy certainly has not been himself. I'd say it was the completely incompetent leadership who had the power to fire Malone. Before that it was the crapstorm that was the Maloofs exit. Yet, Cousins has transformed into an Allstar and a World Champion from one of the worst teams in the league. You have everything just about 100% backwards.
 
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CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#82
While all this dialog is interesting and helpful, some right on others not so much, it is filling in the DDOS and getting more of us involved. The Draft, Summer League and the FO, such as it is, dealing with the necessary FA's that are required to get to the next level will tell us in the next 3-4 months where the Kings on paper have gotten.

Seems there are three significant points from all this:

1- Cuz and Karl need to sit down, establish dialog, figure out how to become 'buds and work together;
2- The FO disparately needs a true NBA GM type who is expert in the CBA, contracts, team financial structuring, team basketball structure and can do all the things for which Vlade just does not have the experience. Jerry West's son does not seem to fill that need;
3- The FO and coach(es) need to have a plan in place by the June 25 draft to come up with what helps the Kings the most this coming season, with or without Willy. Trade up/down, keep or what? Thats only 2 weeks from now. Not enough time me thinks to get that done for a longer term plan. Vlade can wing it but the league and available players may not want to wait that long.

Encouraged but with Butterflies.........
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#84
Cousins and Karl don't have to necessarily like each other to the tune of giving out hugs and all that as he did with Malone, what they both need to come to an agreement is to start winning games and think of the bigger picture, establishing an identity and building around him.
 
K

Kingsguy881

Guest
#85
Here is what I think happened. I haven't read every post in this thread yet so forgive me if someone beat me to this take. Vlade was brought on board to slowly slide in as the end all be all decision maker with regards to bringing cohesiveness together with his ability to manage egos and attract people (smart people in the right roles) to him and what he envisions. I think Vlade then cultivated relationships and made friends with everybody while using his superior judgement (an ingrained ability of his) to figure out what the hierarchy should be as well as who to contact for his talent evaluations, AND at the same time took the advise of some of the smartest heads in the league on his team to parlay into what direction he needed to go. I think him coming out and saying DMC is as untradeable as it gets was a direct nugget from one Gregg Popovich.
I don't think from the 25 or so posts I have read here that Blade is getting enough credit for his shrewdness. I know he isn't getting it in the media for sure. I KNOW he hasn't done this before but honestly I have more faith in him doing this as a first timer than any current or future GM when they were a rookie.All I keep thinking is of how Vlade was the bachelor of international players in this league and how that legacy ain't over, he is soon to be the bachelor of international players becoming front office employees too.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#86
I'm with you on this - we've transitioned a lot of the executive staff in the front office, but I'm not sure we have much more practical NBA experience leading us. And the one guy you think they'd lean on for actual basketball knowledge (Karl) is already being transitioned to pariah status.

This permanent GM hire is huge IMO.
And that assumes that there really is going to be a permanent GM hire. But the narrative has changed so many times I don't even know if that's a possible reality or a mirage in the desert. I totally agree with this statement, probably because I've called for it numerous times already - you better get a GM with some major chops in here, pronto. The podcast alludes to FA negativity because of the recent history of sewage with this team. The only thing that I can see to offset that negativity is a highly credible GM.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#87
I'd like more specificity about the Karl ego thing. Are we talking here about Karl just wanting his ego massaged by Cousins? Or are we talking about Karl not compromising in his basketball principles to assuage Cousins' ego? One ego thing is quite shallow. Another ego thing is quite substantial and could have far reaching effects for this team. Gary Payton and Karl butted heads and Payton is now Karl's biggest fan. Maybe it's Cousins ego that we should be concerned with, not Karl. Just a thought.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#88
I'd like more specificity about the Karl ego thing. Are we talking here about Karl just wanting his ego massaged by Cousins? Or are we talking about Karl not compromising in his basketball principles to assuage Cousins' ego? One ego thing is quite shallow. Another ego thing is quite substantial and could have far reaching effects for this team. Gary Payton and Karl butted heads and Payton is now Karl's biggest fan. Maybe it's Cousins ego that we should be concerned with, not Karl. Just a thought.
It's those kinds of things that made this a media circus to begin with.

What I'd like is to see LESS manipulation in the press and more honest effort behind the scenes. Just because there is something fans want to know doesn't mean they have to be answered.

Maybe we should be LESS concerned with the egos involved and let them work it out. All this constant amateur psychoanalysis has done so far is create way too much angst in social media.
 
#89
This is interesting. Let's tame the guy who's had actual success in the league.
How many titles has he won? After all, isn't that the ultimate goal and barometer of true success?

So he's won a ton of regular season games -- tremendous. However, his playoff track record isn't all that stellar. Perhaps his "style" of play and coaching of his players isn't so conducive to winning when it matters most. History strongly suggests that might be the case. If an all-star player's career mirrored Karl's coaching career, he'd be criticized for not getting it done when it matters most.

Let's not pretend we're talking about Phil Jackson, Pat Riley or Grep Popovich here.

I'm just beyond making excuses for DeMarcus. Plenty of quality players have had difficult cards dealt to them to start their careers. Five seasons in, DeMarcus hasn't shown the ability to rise above the management/ownership group to elevate his teammates.
There's a big difference between difficult cards and impossible cards. None of these players you're thinking of had to go through a relocation roller coaster that lasted several years. Making matters worse, the front office was essentially on lock down and barred from making any real moves. Remember, the Kings barely stayed above the salary cap floor the entire time. They weren't spending $$ to invest in or improve their team. Then, once the new ownership took over, they've been going in reverse with dysfunction and lack of direction.

How exactly can any player be expected to rise above that? Swap DeMarcus out with any player in the league during that same time frame. Who do you think would have made this team a lot better? It's not a given that LBJ would get this team to the playoffs in the West.

With regard to your comment bolded above, I'd argue that the Kings 9-5 start was DeMarcus showing the ability to rise above. Coincidentally, the team went into the tank immediately after he went out ill. I wonder why?
 
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#90
I don't go to other team's boards....but i just want to ask,

Are all these social media "leaks" the norm these days where social media is everywhere? Or is there more than usual involving the kings?

It just seems that either there are leaks, false leaks, or assumptions pretending to be leaks, all of which are damaging to the organization.