Can Josh Smith be saved?

[KingsFanGER]

The Kings also have issues spacing the floor, and with opponents packing the paint on defense. Smith won't help that. So why would we expect him to do any better here? Because Gay did? Well, he and Gay can't occupy the same place at the same time, can they?

Right now JT is our starting pf. He doesnt help to space a floor too. The Kings need to decide if they want a stretch 4 er a defender alongside Cousins. Outside of Ibaka there is no player that can do both.
Smith would hell the Kings on D and is an Elite passer for a pf.

 

[sdballer]

Right now JT is our starting pf. He doesnt help to space a floor too. The Kings need to decide if they want a stretch 4 er a defender alongside Cousins. Outside of Ibaka there is no player that can do both.
Smith would hell the Kings on D and is an Elite passer for a pf.

Help them on d in what way? Weak side shot blocking, yes. But he's an inferior post defender to JT and that's pretty important in the western conference.

 

[bajaden]

Right now JT is our starting pf. He doesnt help to space a floor too. The Kings need to decide if they want a stretch 4 er a defender alongside Cousins. Outside of Ibaka there is no player that can do both.
Smith would hell the Kings on D and is an Elite passer for a pf.

JT can space the floor just as well as Ibaka can. He can't block shots like Ibaka, but his jumpshot has just as much range on it, if not more than Ibaka's. Plus JT can match up with most of the centers in the league, Smith can't. While I agree that JT isn't the perfect answer, he does bring some things to the table that Smith doesn't. Including a much cheaper salary.

 

[SwishKing]

JT can space the floor just as well as Ibaka can. He can't block shots like Ibaka, but his jumpshot has just as much range on it, if not more than Ibaka's. Plus JT can match up with most of the centers in the league, Smith can't. While I agree that JT isn't the perfect answer, he does bring some things to the table that Smith doesn't. Including a much cheaper salary.

I'm sorry, but WHAT? Please tell me you're being sarcastic because that's the only way that sentence makes any sense.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Help them on d in what way? Weak side shot blocking, yes. But he's an inferior post defender to JT and that's pretty important in the western conference.

Thats what i pointed out myself in a previous post. But to be honest playing D is so much more than 1vs1 post play. And while JT is doing well versus the Top-Pf's oft the West, he doesn't contribute enough besides post-d. From watching Kings and Atlanta/Detroit Games I would consider Smith as the superior player in all aspects outside of post-d.
He may not be the perfect player to get, but he is a viable player at least and if we can manage to keep JT while adding Smith i wouldt expect the Kings to take a major step towards the Playoffs.

 

[Boogie-havoc]

JT can space the floor just as well as Ibaka can. He can't block shots like Ibaka, but his jumpshot has just as much range on it, if not more than Ibaka's. Plus JT can match up with most of the centers in the league, Smith can't. While I agree that JT isn't the perfect answer, he does bring some things to the table that Smith doesn't. Including a much cheaper salary.

Can he space the floor in an ok manner? yes

Can he space the floor like Serge Ibaka, one of the elite mid-range shooters in the game? no, absolutely not.

I see your point and agree JT is a better option to Smith, but the above had to be clarified.

 

[KingsFanGER]

If Smith is not an option - who do you bring in as a PF?
O'Quinn is often mentioned, but we need to convince him to play for the Kings and won't be his only suitors.
Outside of O'Quinn?
Defensive PF are all locked up by their current franchises and we do not have the assets to get one through a trade. Ibaka, Sanders, Gibson, Dieng or Noel are pipedreams.
Even good backup centers like Koufos are difficult to get.
I don't see many options for the Kings and we really have to improve the PF position.

 

[Gilles]

So if Kings can't get one guy at $5-6 million per, and have to pay $8-9 million, just "no!", let's trade for one with $13.5 million salary! Right?

I like JT, but no, he's just on completely lower level from Ibaka as far as shooting is concerned. That advertised training camp shooting would absolutely be welcome though, if it finally showed its face.

The only way to make Smith passable offensively is to make him a playmaker. But at this point everybody knows - pack the paint and make Smith a shooter.

 

[ForlornKing]

JT can space the floor just as well as Ibaka can. He can't block shots like Ibaka, but his jumpshot has just as much range on it, if not more than Ibaka's. Plus JT can match up with most of the centers in the league, Smith can't. While I agree that JT isn't the perfect answer, he does bring some things to the table that Smith doesn't. Including a much cheaper salary.

more range than ibaka... I'm not sure if Baja realizes that serge is pretty capable 3 point shooter

 

[edt]

Detroit here, I'm checking out some trade rumors of course we want Josh gone in the worst way but I want to correct some things about Josh and his personality. First of all, he is in fact a very nice guy and I think you'll find he gets along with everyone including the coaches. And yes he can be trained. If you look at his record this year, he has been taking less long 2's less 3's playing inside more . . . except he has not been hitting his shot inside otherwise his TS% would be much better than last year. However he has not been making that baby hook he has.

Everything bad said about his game is true. He chucks up long 2's, he ball watches, loses his man on defense, goes for the weak side block instead of playing his man, but I don't think he is unfixable. The worst part of Josh Smith's game right now is that he was told by SVG to bulk up to play the PF and found himself in terrible condition.

If you look at his quarter splits 1st, 2nd 3rd 4th, he is actually a pretty good basketball player in the 1st quarter, good shooting percentage, playing well, few long 2's somewhere around 35% 3P% actually a plus player. But by the 4th quarter he is no longer able to create his shot at the basket, settles for long 2's, directs traffic instead of defending.

I think if you get him to lose about 25 pounds, limit his minutes to what he is capable of playing with high intensity you will have a solid basketball player. He's not very smart though, never was an X's and O's guy, and he was never taught the correct way to play basketball. And he is definitely on the decline because of how much he has relied on athleticism in the past and it is really fading fast.

But don't think he will be locker room poison he's a stand up guy, yes he has gotten into some arguments in the past, but everyone in this league sometimes gets into arguments it is definitely not a pattern. He has been trying quite hard to fit into SVG's system, but I put most of the blame on SVG not Josh. SVG has been playing Josh first of all out of position and then when he did move him to PF he has been playing him 35+ minutes every single game. That's too many minutes for Josh at this stage in his career.

I think Josh has a personality that if he has to become the 3rd scoring option on a team he will be able to do it. I'm not so sure he would have done it in Atlanta because he was the star back then. I think at this stage of his career maybe he is ready and able to take being a role player instead of the star of the team.

Just don't expect him to play solid for more than 25 minutes a game unless you can get him to diet down so his endurance is better.

 

[twslam07]

If Smith is not an option - who do you bring in as a PF?
O'Quinn is often mentioned, but we need to convince him to play for the Kings and won't be his only suitors.
Outside of O'Quinn?
Defensive PF are all locked up by their current franchises and we do not have the assets to get one through a trade. Ibaka, Sanders, Gibson, Dieng or Noel are pipedreams.
Even good backup centers like Koufos are difficult to get.
I don't see many options for the Kings and we really have to improve the PF position.

O'Quinn was a second round pick. His contract is very low. He's going to want to get paid as much money as he can to help secure his future. He's not the type of player who has the luxury of turning down more money to play with another team. I think his main goal will be to get the most money he can next year. Kings will have plenty of cap space to make him a very attractive offer. Not to mention he'll get to start, play next to the best big man in the game, and play for an up and coming team that will be moving into a brand new arena in a year's time.

Frye and Vucevic will be making almost 20 mil between the two of them next year not to mention Gordon will be making 4 mil. The Magic are certainly in a position to keep O'Quinn, but with the committed salary they have in their frontcourt and the fact that Harris, Oladipo, Harkless, and Fournier will eventually need contracts, does it make sense for them to keep O'Quinn around for ~$8 mil a year?

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

If Smith is not an option - who do you bring in as a PF?
O'Quinn is often mentioned, but we need to convince him to play for the Kings and won't be his only suitors.

"Convince" him to play for the Kings? I don't get it. This is not the Maloofs Kings. Things are vastly different. An owner who is ready and willing to spend money and do whatever else it takes,... the new arena, an up and coming team, a pass first point guard in Collison, Cousins, Gay, McLemore.....a beautiful area to live with engaged passionate and supportive fans.

It seems to me that a young player would be asking and trying to come here

 

[Glenn]

"Convince" him to play for the Kings? I don't get it. This is not the Maloofs Kings. Things are vastly different. An owner who is ready and willing to spend money and do whatever else it takes,... the new arena, an up and coming team, a pass first point guard in Collison, Cousins, Gay, McLemore.....a beautiful area to live with engaged passionate and supportive fans.

It seems to me that a young player would be asking and trying to come here

I agree totally. Having extended Rudy's contract is similar to signing a FA so the idea that a FA would never sign here has flown out the window.

 

[VF21]

Detroit here, I'm checking out some trade rumors of course we want Josh gone in the worst way but I want to correct some things about Josh and his personality. First of all, he is in fact a very nice guy and I think you'll find he gets along with everyone including the coaches. And yes he can be trained. If you look at his record this year, he has been taking less long 2's less 3's playing inside more . . . except he has not been hitting his shot inside otherwise his TS% would be much better than last year. However he has not been making that baby hook he has.

Everything bad said about his game is true. He chucks up long 2's, he ball watches, loses his man on defense, goes for the weak side block instead of playing his man, but I don't think he is unfixable. The worst part of Josh Smith's game right now is that he was told by SVG to bulk up to play the PF and found himself in terrible condition.

If you look at his quarter splits 1st, 2nd 3rd 4th, he is actually a pretty good basketball player in the 1st quarter, good shooting percentage, playing well, few long 2's somewhere around 35% 3P% actually a plus player. But by the 4th quarter he is no longer able to create his shot at the basket, settles for long 2's, directs traffic instead of defending.

I think if you get him to lose about 25 pounds, limit his minutes to what he is capable of playing with high intensity you will have a solid basketball player. He's not very smart though, never was an X's and O's guy, and he was never taught the correct way to play basketball. And he is definitely on the decline because of how much he has relied on athleticism in the past and it is really fading fast.

But don't think he will be locker room poison he's a stand up guy, yes he has gotten into some arguments in the past, but everyone in this league sometimes gets into arguments it is definitely not a pattern. He has been trying quite hard to fit into SVG's system, but I put most of the blame on SVG not Josh. SVG has been playing Josh first of all out of position and then when he did move him to PF he has been playing him 35+ minutes every single game. That's too many minutes for Josh at this stage in his career.

I think Josh has a personality that if he has to become the 3rd scoring option on a team he will be able to do it. I'm not so sure he would have done it in Atlanta because he was the star back then. I think at this stage of his career maybe he is ready and able to take being a role player instead of the star of the team.

Just don't expect him to play solid for more than 25 minutes a game unless you can get him to diet down so his endurance is better.

Thanks for the input. Always good to see another fan's POV.

 

[KingsFanGER]

We ll see. O'Quinn is one of the very few PF's, that actually can play both ends of the floor. I expect him to get quite a few offers from contending teams.
I don't understand, why the Magic decided, that they need to aquire Frye and play him instead of O'Quinn.

 

[SwishKing]

I agree totally. Having extended Rudy's contract is similar to signing a FA so the idea that a FA would never sign here has flown out the window.

I agree things have gotten better, but we're still the kings and we're never gonna be a premier destination for big name free agents. Small market teams are always going to have to over-pay to get real talent in free agency. As for Rudy, we traded for him at a time where nobody else in the NBA wanted to touch him and since he's played some of the best basketball of his career here. It's not quite the same as signing an unrestricted free agent who's also getting offers from larger market teams.

 

[Glenn]

I refuse to mope about. I am going to enjoy this team. I think signing Rudy is very much like signing a FA. He got to see the team and the city up close and personal and liked it.

 

[SwishKing]

I refuse to mope about. I am going to enjoy this team. I think signing Rudy is very much like signing a FA. He got to see the team and the city up close and personal and liked it.

I'm not moping, just stating facts. And your last sentence is exactly WHY resigning Rudy wasn't like signing a FA. FAs aren't going to get a year in our system to see how well they fit and how nice Sacramento actually is.

 

[Glenn]

I'm not moping, just stating facts. And your last sentence is exactly WHY resigning Rudy wasn't like signing a FA. FAs aren't going to get a year in our system to see how well they fit and how nice Sacramento actually is.

They can call Rudy.

Actually I suspect it is the agents who need to understand Sacramento isn't a hell hole.

I didn't mean you were moping but there seem to be a lot who can be described this way.

 

[Gilles]

We ll see. O'Quinn is one of the very few PF's, that actually can play both ends of the floor. I expect him to get quite a few offers from contending teams.
I don't understand, why the Magic decided, that they need to aquire Frye and play him instead of O'Quinn.

O'Quinn's main problems are injuries and fouls. He can cover both bigs' positions resulting in him starting in place of injured Vucevic, so in theory he's a good guy to have as a 3rd big, which makes Frye signing a little less perplexing, even if Kyle is a big part of Orlando future plans. Now Magic believe in Gordon as a 4, from what I gathered, so a lot will depend on what they want to do with Harris this summer. Tobias, who spends some time at 4 as well, will get $10 million offer and, if Magic decide to keep him, they probably become a bit short on cash to pay around $7-8 million for PF/C with 2 big contracts for PF and SF/PF with another PF, looking for similar contract down the line, in Gordon. If Oladipo stays healthy and Vucevic returns for most of the season, Orlando is probably a PO team, so their first-rounder will most likely have limited influence on their decision-making this summer.

 

[bajaden]

more range than ibaka... I'm not sure if Baja realizes that serge is pretty capable 3 point shooter

I don't live in a delusional world. Until this year, Ibaka hardly if ever took a three point shot averaging less than 0.2 shots a game in his first five years in the league. This year, he's shooting four times as many three's as he previously shot. And averaging around 36%, which isn't bad. If he continues to shoot that effectively, then I'll acknowledge it, but 22 games does not a great shooter make. I'm basing my premise on his entire career. He went his first three years in the league without taking a three point shot. So please, don't come to me with what a great three point shooter he is. He's mostly a mid-range shooter, and he's a good mid-range shooter. But so is JT, and that's the point I was trying to make. Would I rather have Ibaka instead of JT? Well dammed right I would. That wasn't the point. The point was, that JT isn't responsible for causing a traffic jam around the basket, which was what was being implied.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Some actual #s, to add fuel to the fire (from basketball refernce, and went with career for largest sample)

Jason Tompson (link) - 10.4% of shots taken are from 10-16 feet out, making 38.2% of those; 19.4% are from 16 feet to the 3-point line, making 39.7% of those; 0.7% are 3s, of which he makes 3.7%

Josh Smith (link) -has taken 6.1% of his shots from 10-16, making those at a 26.3% clip; 25% of his shots are from 16ft-3pt line, making 34.7%; and 12.1% of his career attempts are 3s, of which he makes 27.9%. Last year in Detroit he started taking way more 3s (21.5% of his attemps) but this season he's down to a career-low 9.4%. Still, his overall FG% is a carer low 38.1, inlcuding a career low 56.4% within 3 feet.

For good measure, Serge Ibaka (link) - has taken 14.6% of attempts from 10-16, making 46.8%. He takes 27.4% of his attempts between 16-3pt line, making 45.4% of them. And only 5.4% of his career attempts are from 3, where he's shot 36.6%.

 

[NewArena]

JT can space the floor just as well as Ibaka can. He can't block shots like Ibaka, but his jumpshot has just as much range on it, if not more than Ibaka's. Plus JT can match up with most of the centers in the league, Smith can't. While I agree that JT isn't the perfect answer, he does bring some things to the table that Smith doesn't. Including a much cheaper salary.

ummmm maybe two or three years ago, but JT's jumpshot is horrible right now. Absolutely
sloppy

 

[NewArena]

Everything bad said about his game is true. He chucks up long 2's, he ball watches, loses his man on defense, goes for the weak side block instead of playing his man, but I don't think he is unfixable. The worst part of Josh Smith's game right now is that he was told by SVG to bulk up to play the PF and found himself in terrible condition.

interesting. especially that last line about conditioning and the requirement to put on some pounds. It's pretty
identical to Rudy's previous situation in Toronto

 

[Glenn]

ummmm maybe two or three years ago, but JT's jumpshot is horrible right now. Absolutely
sloppy

This is true. However, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that his shot is totally broken. Not saying that's what you are implying.

 

[NewArena]

This is true. However, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that his shot is totally broken. Not saying that's what you are implying.

yea, i think he's just been so focused on this new role of his, that he hasn't really worked on that jumper like
he should. I wish he could put it all together, but then he'd be an all star i suppose lol and everyone just isn't meant to
be.

 

[206Fan]

If you look at his quarter splits 1st, 2nd 3rd 4th, he is actually a pretty good basketball player in the 1st quarter, good shooting percentage, playing well, few long 2's somewhere around 35% 3P% actually a plus player. But by the 4th quarter he is no longer able to create his shot at the basket, settles for long 2's, directs traffic instead of defending.

Ahh, means we're fudged. Our team is a sucky 4th quarter team. We lose leads from left to right. He certainly won't help.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Ironic how Smith basically beat our entire frontcourt, which is just a huge mess without DMC. Smith didn't take care of the ball, but a lot of this has to do, with him leading breaks in Detroit (still our frontcourt did turn it over just as much as Smith, Drummond and Monroe combined). Take this aspect away and don't use him as a low post scorer and you still have a productive player, who challenges shots, plays solid D and has above average court vision.

He may not be the best option given his huge contract, but at least he is an option and would most likely improve our roster.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

He may not be the best option given his huge contract, but at least he is an option and would most likely improve our roster.

Propensity for knucklehead plays or not, he played far better than anybody on our team last night.

 

[Noble]

After they whooped on us, I think they would rather wait and see how they progress the rest of the year than trade josh smith. Their bigs are nasty. They need to swap out Jennings for Sessions, someone to PnR and penetrate.