California Classic Game 3 Kings vs Lakers 7/3/19

#31
Justin James was a Kangz pick. He's about as useful as jared cunningham. Just doesnt have it. Guy is a great shooter no doubt, it's a tragedy he isn't 6'6- 6'8. Need to give chances to gain confidence. He'll always be a defensive liability.
 
#35
I was just reading that Jimmer saw the writing on the wall, and packed his bags before his 3rd SL game. Guess he'll probably go back to being the leading scorer in China, whose leagues just dropped greatly in my esteem.
He is getting euro offers, didnt want to risk injury.
 
#36
Justin James was a Kangz pick. He's about as useful as jared cunningham.
And this is a classic Kangz post. Forming a concrete, absolute opinion on a player 3 SL games into a career.

It sure does stagger the imagination how any player developed into a prominent NBA talent after stints in the G League, Summer League and/or overseas since it didn’t happen for them right away in the NBA.

It’s unbelievable how shortsighted and reactionary some fans are.

Lucky for them that most other members of the board don’t employ that same logic by ignoring them as forever irrelevant and not useful. SMH.
 
#37
Which is exactly why you take the lottery ticket on the massive question mark with lottery potential.
Well... Can you really make a distinction between physical capabilities and basketball ones? In one case, you're betting on significant improvement from a medical standpoint. In the other, you're betting on improvement from a skills standpoint. These other "non-potential" guys can still improve, and there have been no few examples of guys taken in the second round, never projected to be lottery picks who become very good players.

If it's a minor injury concern, then sure maybe you could argue that the scales are tipped in favour of medical improvement. But given the number of teams that passed, the medical history of really tall guys etc, I don't think it's so clear cut to say betting on lottery potential with crappy legs is better than betting on fully functional player with some skills. Then you consider fit and need etc.
 
#38
Which is exactly why you take the lottery ticket on the massive question mark with lottery potential.
Which is a viable tactic for some. But not necessarily in all situations.

Didn’t the KINGS do it with Harry Giles? And yet there are factions here still damning that pick and impatient that he hasn’t developed into what they had hoped for this soon.

I don’t pretend to know Bol’s medical. But unlike Harry Giles, the dude slipped well into the 2nd round. Which means numerous other teams shared the KINGS opinion on the medical odds and potential fit with their team. So I think it’s a bit over the top to keep railing them over it.

I mean, they didn’t like the player for whatever reasons. Hence why they didn’t take him. Isn’t it silly to be upset with them for not taking a player they didn’t like enough to draft? Even if he becomes a good player, it doesn’t mean he would have fit well with the KINGS. I’d be more upset with Vlade and the FO if they caved to public opinion instead of sticking to their own plan.

Many here aren’t old enough to remember, but there was a time in 1996 when an arena full of KINGS fans were chanting John Wallace’s name only to end up with some unknown dude named Predrag Stojakovic. Despite all the loud boos and the 2 years before he actually signed a contract with the team, the decision to stick with their own plan kinda worked out — didn’t it?

Not saying James will ever be a player, but rather making the point that a GM / FO should always stick to their plan and take the player they believe in most. We as fans may not always like their choice, but if it ends up working out — should we really complain?
 
#39
Well... Can you really make a distinction between physical capabilities and basketball ones? In one case, you're betting on significant improvement from a medical standpoint. In the other, you're betting on improvement from a skills standpoint. These other "non-potential" guys can still improve, and there have been no few examples of guys taken in the second round, never projected to be lottery picks who become very good players.

If it's a minor injury concern, then sure maybe you could argue that the scales are tipped in favour of medical improvement. But given the number of teams that passed, the medical history of really tall guys etc, I don't think it's so clear cut to say betting on lottery potential with crappy legs is better than betting on fully functional player with some skills. Then you consider fit and need etc.
If Bol Bol's medical problems were that of a typical big who might have chronic leg issues, I don't think he falls into the 40s. Unfortunately, the rumors are that he has the same degenerative knee problems that Brandon Roy suffered from, only much worse at the same point in time.
 
#40
Justin James was a Kangz pick. He's about as useful as jared cunningham. Just doesnt have it. Guy is a great shooter no doubt, it's a tragedy he isn't 6'6- 6'8. Need to give chances to gain confidence. He'll always be a defensive liability.
Yeah! Let’s condemn a guy who is still trying to adjust, that’s the kind of sense that doesn’t make any. I’m sure no one has ever needed an adjustment period, everyone is perfect from day one.

If you took off your hate-filled glasses you’d see that the guy has skills, the main one being that he has been a near lockdown defender. His shot will come back to him in time.

Guy has been doing fine in his role. I don’t know why you think he will be a defensive liability when he hasn’t been one in summer league. If he gets a run with the main team he would be coming off the bench with Bogi. Guy has the speed and agility to defend the PG spot, he’s even shown he is very good in the P&R. He’s also shown he can handle heavy ball pressure, playing the backup PG is not impossible for him with some more work.
 
#41
If Bol Bol's medical problems were that of a typical big who might have chronic leg issues, I don't think he falls into the 40s. Unfortunately, the rumors are that he has the same degenerative knee problems that Brandon Roy suffered from, only much worse at the same point in time.
There was obviously some info out there that concerned and scared away many teams. Could they be proven wrong over time? Certainly.

But it's a like a game of poker in which a good player weighs odds and probabilities when making a decision. Sometimes the lower percentage play works out. But more often than not, it doesn't.
 
#42
Yeah! Let’s condemn a guy who is still trying to adjust, that’s the kind of sense that doesn’t make any. I’m sure no one has ever needed an adjustment period, everyone is perfect from day one.

If you took off your hate-filled glasses you’d see that the guy has skills, the main one being that he has been a near lockdown defender. His shot will come back to him in time.

Guy has been doing fine in his role. I don’t know why you think he will be a defensive liability when he hasn’t been one in summer league. If he gets a run with the main team he would be coming off the bench with Bogi. Guy has the speed and agility to defend the PG spot, he’s even shown he is very good in the P&R. He’s also shown he can handle heavy ball pressure, playing the backup PG is not impossible for him with some more work.
It's just a ridiculous level of fandom. It really is.

I don't pretend to know whether Justin James or Kyle Guy will ever amount to a thing in the NBA. History and odds say they won't.

The only thing I do know is that we won't find out for quite a while.

The most classic example I can think of is Steve Nash. Who was the 15th pick in the 1996 draft right behind some dudes named Kobe Bryant and Peja Stojakovic. Nash was clearly a much more highly regarded prospect than either of the KINGS 2nd round picks.

4 seasons into his career, he was labeled a complete bust. Just the mention of his name prompted many fans to mock.

His averages were as follows:

1996: 3.3 ppg, 2.1 apg at 22 years old
1997: 9.1 ppg, 3.4 apg at 23 years old
1998: 7.9 ppg, 5.5 apg at 24 years old
1999: 8.6 ppg, 4.9 apg at 25 years old

Then something magical happened at 26 years old and while on a new team with another budding star player. He figured things out. Most of all, the hard work he put in over numerous years started to pay off.

By ages 30 and 31, he was a 2-time League MVP.

Point is, you never know how things are going to play out. I'll bet anything there were many PHX and DAL fans throwing in the towel on Nash real early into his career. After all, he had shown next to nothing. He was a worthless player in their eyes. I'll bet you anything none of those fans would admit it now.

None of the above means that the KINGS 2nd round picks or any of their other players are ever going to rival Steve Nash's development and accomplishments. But it does go to show that it sometimes takes time. And patience. And a player willing to put in the necessary work. Even that doesn't guarantee success.

All the above proves is these the fans drawing conclusions this early into a career just don't know what the hell they are talking about. They're just playing the odds and hoping to be right so they can say "See, I told you so".

Anybody with at least a brain cell remaining in their 10 gallon head can research the history of the draft to discover that most players don't pan out. A very, very small percentage become HOF'ers. Many carve out multi-year careers. But many more than that don't wind up playing long, if at all.

Considering that, it's super easy to go out on the short limb to make the proclamations these short-sighted fans make.
 
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#43
Do you guys watch closley. Bryce brown has enter the last 2 games and gave sparks. Took a 2 point lead to 13 against miami & a 1 point to a 21 point lead in the game against LA. Team lost when he went to bench. If mika finishes down low brown stat line read 12 & 4 dimes in limited action. Hes the only gaurd that slowed down LA’s gaurd yesterday.
 
#44
Watching SL is kind of like watching the regular Kings warm up before a game. There is anticipation about the future.
The SL is hard to watch. Guys are trying to prove themselves and commit a lot of fouls. The play tends to be a little out of control.
Few guys really look good. The ones that do, probably have a hard time against regular NBA players. It is a weeding out process.
Most of them end up packing their bags or on the end of the bench somewhere.
Guy can shoot it. I can relate to a player like Mika a lot. He may look a lot different against journeymen players.
 
#46
And this is a classic Kangz post. Forming a concrete, absolute opinion on a player 3 SL games into a career.

It sure does stagger the imagination how any player developed into a prominent NBA talent after stints in the G League, Summer League and/or overseas since it didn’t happen for them right away in the NBA.

It’s unbelievable how shortsighted and reactionary some fans are.

Lucky for them that most other members of the board don’t employ that same logic by ignoring them as forever irrelevant and not useful. SMH.
I'm pretty sure you're talking about a poster that I recently set to "Ignore." I'm always hesitant to put posters on my "Ignore" list, because I often enjoy reading opinions that challenge my own. But this poster is off the charts. In fact, I wonder sometimes if posters like this are real people? Or is it some low-tier form of AI? (and I mean LOW TIER)
 
#47
It's just a ridiculous level of fandom. It really is.

I don't pretend to know whether Justin James or Kyle Guy will ever amount to a thing in the NBA. History and odds say they won't.

The only thing I do know is that we won't find out for quite a while.

The most classic example I can think of is Steve Nash. Who was the 15th pick in the 1996 draft right behind some dudes named Kobe Bryant and Peja Stojakovic. Nash was clearly a much more highly regarded prospect than either of the KINGS 2nd round picks.

4 seasons into his career, he was labeled a complete bust. Just the mention of his name prompted many fans to mock.

His averages were as follows:

1996: 3.3 ppg, 2.1 apg at 22 years old
1997: 9.1 ppg, 3.4 apg at 23 years old
1998: 7.9 ppg, 5.5 apg at 24 years old
1999: 8.6 ppg, 4.9 apg at 25 years old

Then something magical happened at 26 years old and while on a new team with another budding star player. He figured things out. Most of all, the hard work he put in over numerous years started to pay off.

By ages 30 and 31, he was a 2-time League MVP.

Point is, you never know how things are going to play out. I'll bet anything there were many PHX and DAL fans throwing in the towel on Nash real early into his career. After all, he had shown next to nothing. He was a worthless player in their eyes. I'll bet you anything none of those fans would admit it now.

None of the above means that the KINGS 2nd round picks or any of their other players are ever going to rival Steve Nash's development and accomplishments. But it does go to show that it sometimes takes time. And patience. And a player willing to put in the necessary work. Even that doesn't guarantee success.

All the above proves is these the fans drawing conclusions this early into a career just don't know what the hell they are talking about. They're just playing the odds and hoping to be right so they can say "See, I told you so".

Anybody with at least a brain cell remaining in their 10 gallon head can research the history of the draft to discover that most players don't pan out. A very, very small percentage become HOF'ers. Many carve out multi-year careers. But many more than that don't wind up playing long, if at all.

Considering that, it's super easy to go out on the short limb to make the proclamations these short-sighted fans make.
But you well know that for every Steve Nash situation, there are a couple hundred other "regular" situations where the player isn't putting up stats because they just aren't very good. Nash is a very rare situation. A bad rookie season is very normal but taking 5 years to become a decent player is rare and not the norm. The same as people comparing Luka's rookie season to Tyreke's. It's so rare to have a Tyreke like situation happen, yet people make a point out of it as if it happens all the time.

I roll my eyes as much at the people labeling these guys as busts as I do when people talk about these guys getting minutes on the NBA roster this year. Not a single player other than Gabriel has shown enough skill to even sniff playing time on an NBA roster so far. But like we saw with Bagley last year, a player can look night and day different from Summer League to the regular season. Hell, look at Giles. Defended like Draymond in summer league and then looked hopeless for the first couple months in the NBA. You just never know.

All I know is there would have to be major injuries on the squad this year in order for any of these guys to receive playing time.
 
#48
But you well know that for every Steve Nash situation, there are a couple hundred other "regular" situations where the player isn't putting up stats because they just aren't very good. Nash is a very rare situation. A bad rookie season is very normal but taking 5 years to become a decent player is rare and not the norm. The same as people comparing Luka's rookie season to Tyreke's. It's so rare to have a Tyreke like situation happen, yet people make a point out of it as if it happens all the time.

I roll my eyes as much at the people labeling these guys as busts as I do when people talk about these guys getting minutes on the NBA roster this year. Not a single player other than Gabriel has shown enough skill to even sniff playing time on an NBA roster so far. But like we saw with Bagley last year, a player can look night and day different from Summer League to the regular season. Hell, look at Giles. Defended like Draymond in summer league and then looked hopeless for the first couple months in the NBA. You just never know.

All I know is there would have to be major injuries on the squad this year in order for any of these guys to receive playing time.
It happens more often than might think, but not usually the route of Nash. Most of the time they end up in the G League or over seas for a few years and then break back into the NBA.
 
#49
It happens more often than might think, but not usually the route of Nash. Most of the time they end up in the G League or over seas for a few years and then break back into the NBA.
I'm not saying it never happens, it's just you need to make the decisions based off potential. If you just let every player play it out, we would have been stuck with Stauskas, TRob and Jimmer for years waiting for a development that never came.

McLemore, I understood. He was raw but had a sweet shooting stroke and exceptional athleticism. The Kings were waiting for him to be able to apply that athleticism to the game of basketball and he never could. It was worth the wait. The other guys would have been a massive waste of time.

There are always players that prove you wrong but you can't just hold on to every player you have for years because some other player took years to develop. If the coaches don't think that Justin James has it but a guy like Bryce Brown does, then you just hope Vlade doesn't hold on to James just so he can "not be wrong" and picks the player he thinks will be the best in the end.
 
#51
But you well know that for every Steve Nash situation, there are a couple hundred other "regular" situations where the player isn't putting up stats because they just aren't very good. Nash is a very rare situation. A bad rookie season is very normal but taking 5 years to become a decent player is rare and not the norm.
Naturally, I agree with you about the rarity of a Nash situation. But the point was, if a lottery pick could take a while to develop and eventually did — then so could anyone. Especially a 2nd round pick coming in without the same fanfare or lofty expectations.

In short, fans expect too much right away. Just because a player doesn’t look much like one right away doesn’t mean they won’t be one. I fully remember Dirk Nowitzki not looking like much of a player his 1st season and he was a top 10 pick.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#52
Gotta love how a newbie who rarely posts managed to do a drive-by troll comment about "Kangz" stuff and some of you bit on it. :p
 
#55
You guys are usually quicker to detect those things. Look at his body of work and you'll see he has very little good to say about our Kings, instead dumping on Dedmon, Ariza, and virtually anything else the Kings have done. I just suspect he may be living under a bridge somewhere. ;)
That or trolling is his entertainment.
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
#58
Justin James is a massive bust. Probably the biggest bust in franchise history TBH.
?? I have never considered a 2nd rounder anything. Bust are considered only if a top 10 maybe even top 5 pick. 2nd round is just garrauntee camp invite. Nothing more. Anybody expecting much from the 2nd are dillusional to begin with
 
#60
You guys are usually quicker to detect those things. Look at his body of work and you'll see he has very little good to say about our Kings, instead dumping on Dedmon, Ariza, and virtually anything else the Kings have done. I just suspect he may be living under a bridge somewhere. ;)
I thought the same exact thing you did. (Tbh) indeed.

I believe he wanted James when he did and who am I to assume I know more than the people making the decisions and everything else since then has pleased me somewhat.