Brad Miller

LPKingsFan

All-Star
It seems that a lot of people on this board, myself included at times, are really down on Brad. Yet I remember two summers ago being estatic because the Kings had pulled off a sign and trade for the big guy. He seemed to bring the qualities we needed to replace Vlade, the passing, the shooting, but with a toughness we saw in his years with the Bulls and the Pacers (remember, Shaq did try to fight him).

Now, after a season where he only played 56 games, a player once considered central to the Kings' future is among those considered a liability. Where has the toughness gone? Is the new "pouty" Brad a temporary product of injury driven frustration, or a sign of a conatgiously soft Kings mindset? Will the Triple Double Threat Brad ever return? (one would think the departures of Divac, Webb and Christie would have created more assists for him, not less). Will the tough mofo Brad come back with a healthy leg? Or are his weakneses too much without an athletic shotblocker like Jermaine at his side in the paint? Discuss.
 
brad is a great player, but i don't see his toughness anymore. it's all about the pieces. we can still use brad if we can get another starter like christie that can handle the ball and set a tempo. brad was a great replacement for vlade, but we also had big time webber. i love miller, but don't get me wrong; i wouldn't mind seeing him go if we brought some toughness to the team.
 
Personally, I perceive Brad to be more of a asset than liability and it would take one heck of a deal for me to be happy about trading him. However, when you combine his liabilities with those of his front line teammates they all look horrible at the same time. And in a off season following such a traumatic turn of events re; players traded, injuries, lack of practice time for new players to learn the system and the resulting uncerimonious bouncing out of the playoffs in the first round folks are demanding fundamental changes, especially on defense and rebounding...our long term achilles heel. And Brad is perceived as part of the problem in that area.
 
People are mistaken when they dont think Miller is tough, he was a hard *** before he got hurt last year, our best rebounder and shooter and people expected too much when he came back, IMO , i think he will be fine, sure he whines, but so does everyone else on our team...
 
Brad as been all over the place here and you can't blame him, I think this season hes going to find his place again, as our Center, he's the least soft on the starting line-up .. This has nothing to do with lack of jumping ability, Miller , Dives, Sets HARD picks (see Luke Ridnour), and he rarely makes mistakes, If we wanna get anywhere we need Miller healthy and running our offence, I think were going to see the All-Star Miller we saw when he came here. I'm glad to have Miller and I hope he stays a longgggg time :D
 
I would agree i think that a healty brad is one great piece we need on our offense and i hope he stays healthy and stays a kings for along time.
 
My problem has always been his conditioning. Not neccessarily his stamina, he proved that with some LONG minute play last year at times.

It's his work out. He could be more muscular and defined. Therefore putting a bit more weight and strength with him, making him more solid. But right after the season he said yeah I'll be workin out with my brother in a gym i have in a barn in Indiana. I won't increase the weight I use though, I've never believed in working out with heavy weights, but I'll increase my repititions. That's complete bull****. I've been working out for 13 years. If I use the same weight and just increase repititions, not only will I not get any stronger, I'll lose some weight/muscle mass. All increasing the reps does is increase stamina and possibly tone if done right.
 
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I mean lets just be honest here the reason Brad looked so terrible on D is because he had to always help out on Webbs man and forget about that Jerome James bull****. The reason he looked so good was because Brad was just coming off a broken leg, if Brad would have been healty Jerome would have not been a factor. I hate when people put down the Kings and say they are this and they cant do that, I mean for a team to get 50 wins with all the stuff they went through this year is great. I also think if Brad didn't break his leg we would have got at least 56 wins because i believe Brad was good for at least 6 more wins.
 
Brad is a great piece to build around, but you can't pair him up with another unathletic jumpshooting PF with no help defense (e.g. Webber, Songaila).

And at this point I wouldn't even consider trading him for any non-big man. Right now our bigs are Tag, Brad, Skinner, and Kenny. That's it. We can't afford to lose any one of them without knowing we're getting another big in return, or we're looking at Corliss logging serious minutes at center.
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I think that Brad will be an All-Star this season. Last season, Webber absorbed most of the offense leaving Brad pretty much out of the loop until C-Webb was traded. After the trade, Brad had his freak leg injury. I think Brad will be more involved in the offense this year, tougher defenisvley, and cornerstone for the King's future success.
 
Do you guys remember how Brad was playing before he went down with his injury? Here's his February statline:

18.1 ppg, 4.8 apg, 9.7 rpg, 1.5 bpg, 1.7 spg

That included two back to back flashes of outright dominance against the Warriors (37/17/4 in an OT win) and Knicks (35/9/4).

Incidentally, here are Brad's season stats:

15.6 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 3.9 apg

Here are Yao's season stats:

18.3 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 0.8 apg

Brad may not be as good as Yao and Yao still has a lot of potential, but Brad isn't all that far off. There are not many centers in the league as good as Brad. He's more than a piece in the puzzle, he's crucial to the team's success.

P.S. He's also the only non-Bibby player who can facilitate the offense. Peja would not be the same player without Brad. If you're going to get rid of Brad you'd better get rid of Peja as well, scrap the team and start over.

P.P.S. He's also a (relative) bargain. Would you rather have Brad Miller for the next five years at $52.5 million or Zydrunas Ilgauskas for the next five years at $60 million? Thought so.
 
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nbrans said:
Do you guys remember how Brad was playing before he went down with his injury? Here's his February statline:

18.1 ppg, 4.8 apg, 9.7 rpg, 1.5 bpg, 1.7 spg

That included two back to back flashes of outright dominance against the Warriors (37/17/4 in an OT win) and Knicks (35/9/4).

Incidentally, here are Brad's season stats:

15.6 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 3.9 apg

Here are Yao's season stats:

18.3 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 0.8 apg

Brad may not be as good as Yao and Yao still has a lot of potential, but Brad isn't all that far off. There are not many centers in the league as good as Brad. He's more than a piece in the puzzle, he's crucial to the team's success.

i second that. brad's got a lot of heart, and what he brings to the kings, i believe, far outstrip his shortcomings. the key is to get that athletic 4 to pair with him.
 
Jerryaki said:
i second that. brad's got a lot of heart, and what he brings to the kings, i believe, far outstrip his shortcomings. the key is to get that athletic 4 to pair with him.


That quote is right on point. Thats the key right there, we have to get a bigger more athletic 4.
 
come on if anyones questioning his conditioning just look at what he did in game 5 against seattle, he came back and played nearly the entire game and did a pretty decent job and thats saying something for missing 26 games before that. Also you guys can't forget about that pick he set on devin harris that was hilarious lol. But he'll back next year draining mid range shots because hes automatic at that range, hell be back getting 5 assists a game and 9 or 10 boards he'll have his toughness and conditioning back also, this will be an all star type of season for him next year.
 
oh and docholliday, increasing reps and not weight will give you strength and definition, you learn about that stuff when your in the military for 4 years.
 
Brad is a limited player, and a problematic one in some ways. But he's still hard to replace. In no partiuclar order:

1) he takes being unathletic to an extreme. Think he has bad legs. Cannot jump, gets knocked to the ground all the time.
2) he LOOKS strong, but really is not -- got outmuscled all year long and was eaten up by borderline players such as Chris Kaman, Joel Pryzbilla and Jerome James. That had NOTHING to do with Webb, was just weak. Players his own size routinely outmuscle him.
3) Brad's rebounding was merely mediocre last year. One-legged Webb was a better rebounder. I started several threads about our rebounding, and both times Brad ranked around #55 of all NBA centers in the league in per/48 rebounding (of about 100 guys). I have this sneaking suspicion his superior rebounding performance two years ago was because he was playing at PF. Again, he seems surprisingly weak in there. Not awful, but not helping, and not the big ole rebounding hoss I briefly thought we had last year.
4) He has no post game. At ALL. He has repeatedly shown an inability to post up OGs. Literally. That is just amazing for a player of his size, and a major difference between he and Vlade.
5) His interior defense was terrible last year. I mentioned several times that it looked like players were running right up his chest with absolute disregard for his defensive presence. Just charge right at him, jump right over him, and finish no problem. And there it suddenly makes you keenly aware that before hitting Sacto Brad ALWAYS had outstanding frontcourt defenders surrounding him. Brand, Artest, Oakley, J. O'Neal. Think they may have been covering for his deficiencies to a large degree. And also think they may have inspired him -- Brad seems to be a follower, not a leader.
6) The temper/pouting thing is also a probelm, but a lesser one. Nonetheless he is not really trustworthy and is prone to meltdowns (Danny Fortson got under his skin EVERY time). He certainly does not have that saavy self control and control of the game Vlade did.
7) He is very injury prone, and really, aren't we all just tired of that trait now? EVERY single year he gets hurt in the 2nd half of the year. Even when he still suits up, he is banged up and hobbled and not the player he normally is. His body breaks down, and he's nto getting younger. At 29 and the oldest of our "core" this might not be an amazing Vlade old man story where he continues to amazing play in every game despite age and no conditiioning. Could see him by his early 30's really begin to struggle to play 60 games a year. He's averaged about 63 games a year over his career (pulled down a bit by playing in 38 of 50 possible in '99.

SO, you just trade him right? Dump him first chance you get? Well, not so much:
1) and obviously the biggest reason not is that, outside of KG, Brad might still be the single best big man in the whole league to run our offense. If you trade Brad (without bringing back KG), you are in essence deciding to scrap the offense. He is not quite the brilliant all-time intuitive passer that Vlade and Webb were, and he lacks their presence -- both those guys could get on rolls where they were surveying the whole court and simply controlling the game with their passing. Running a team like that is a bit beyond Brad. But making smart crisp unselfish passes is not. And he can make them from the high post where his jumper is most effective.
2) of the remaining core, he may well have the greatest effect on the rest o f the guys. Bibby NEEDS a big guy to play pick and roll with -- the last one now is Brad. Makes Mike much more effective. And Peja NEEDS somebody to hit him with on those backdoor cuts or he is NOT going to average 25. And again, that man is largely Brad.
3) Brad's limitations are being badly exposed now because he's surrounded by players which do not compliment him (as with the rest of the "core"). Brad and Peja together are a real problem athletically, defensively, and in the post. Brad and Peja and Kenny together is a joke. But given the right type of teammates up front, let's say Ron Artest and Jermaine O'Neal, you hide his weaknesses and benefit from his strengths. And since one of his strengths happens to be as the last glue guy really holding the old offense together, maybe that should be the effort rather than trading him.
4) I can imagine a best case scenario next year where Brad blossoms, is called upon to do more an dalmsot forced to by teammates, and puts up maybe 17, 9.5 and 4.5. Those are still considerable numbers.

Bottomline, Brad is a player with clear limitations. But he's a good one. If he was not basically holding the keys to the offense, a player at his level is imminently tradeable for a better or younger piece. Not irreplaceable in terms of overall talent. But to US, in our system, he may have far more value than his talent alone dictates. That was why the trade was made to get him as Vlade's replacement. Not because he was the absolute best or most complete center, but because he was the right type of center + had very rare skills which we needed. And if that's the case, and you are at all interested in trying to run our old offense, if you are a smart GM what you have to do is surround Brad with players who ar ANTI-Brad's. Athletes, rebounders, post players, shot blockers. People who commpliment him and cover up his weaknesses, rather than amplifying them. And if you are going to move him, you damn well better get back a player of enough magnitude to help create a new system/personality for the team. You're not trading away a player in Brad, you're trading away the system.
 
Omaha-King7275 said:
oh and docholliday, increasing reps and not weight will give you strength and definition, you learn about that stuff when your in the military for 4 years.

Increasing reps = definition. Increasing weight = strength + bulk.
 
Brick, excellent analysis of Miller. Pros and cons well stated. I wish Miller would fly back to Indiana, grab his manhood, and come back to the Kings as his fiery old self.
 
LPKingsFan said:
It seems that a lot of people on this board, myself included at times, are really down on Brad.

I don't think it's so much a matter of people being down on Brad as it is people thinking he might actually be better suited at the 4 than the 5 if we could manage to find someone to really play "Center."

I like Brad. I like what he brings and I like how he'll do the dirty work on occason.

The only thing I don't like is the "bitter beer face" pouting.
 
VF21 said:
I don't think it's so much a matter of people being down on Brad as it is people thinking he might actually be better suited at the 4 than the 5 if we could manage to find someone to really play "Center."

I like Brad. I like what he brings and I like how he'll do the dirty work on occason.

The only thing I don't like is the "bitter beer face" pouting.
I'd like to see a pic of Brad when he was little getting scolded by his mother. I bet the facial expressions are priceless.
 
thesanityannex said:
I'd like to see a pic of Brad when he was little getting scolded by his mother. I bet the facial expressions are priceless.



angerchild.jpg
 
Hey I had a quik question for whoever can answer it. I never had a chance to see brad play in indiana or anywhere else, So i was just curious to whether or not hes ever been able to jump or is it somehitng he picked up with us? Cause boy cant just for nothing..i mean 6 inchs off the ground on a good night maybe. I think thats why he doesn't go for blocks he dont want to get posterized. Cant blame him for that though I wouldn't either
 
I have a new idea. Can the Kings and Pacers decide to join forces next year, and play half of their home games in Indy and half in Sac? Think about this starting lineup:

Brad Miller
Jermaine O'Neal
Peja Stojakovic
Ron Artest
Mike Bibby
 
LPKingsFan said:
I have a new idea. Can the Kings and Pacers decide to join forces next year, and play half of their home games in Indy and half in Sac? Think about this starting lineup:

Brad Miller
Jermaine O'Neal
Peja Stojakovic
Ron Artest
Mike Bibby

we'd rule the world with that line up.
 
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