BPA or need?

[BMiller52]

Well, I've been thinking about it and we may just have a problem... lets say Hawes/Conley are available where we're picking. Who do we choose? We have a need at both PG and C. We've always wanted a C that can score in the post(since Vlade left anyway) but this team has also needed a pass first PG like Conley for a while, who by the way has a ton of length and athleticism which would REALLY help our D. IMO, Conley is clearly the better player. The problem is, next year's draft(08) has a ton of PGs(Collison, Lawson, Rose, Gordon) and only a few Cs(Hibbert, Jordan?, Lopez?). BTW, assume you like Conley as much as I do in this scenario. Who do you choose?

Also just in general, do you like taking the best player available or going by need? Back when we were picking in the 20-30 area I think we had to take the BPA, because we already had a bunch of depth and didn't need to fill out our starting 5. We were figuring it would be great if that player could be a rotation guy off the bench in 1-2 years. Now that we're rebuilding, we need guys to contribute at certain positions immediately IMO so I'm not so sure we can do that any more.

 

[VF21]

We've got to address our gaping oozing wound of a frontcourt. Until/unless we do, we're going to keep getting players we simply cannot utilize properly because we don't have room for them.

We address the need through the draft if there's anyone left with any real potential for the frontcourt when we draft.

And the idea we have to address the PG position is making an assumption I don't think we can make at this point. Bibby being shopped last year doesn't mean a thing now. He's our PG until he's gone. Our more pressing need almost to the point of desperation is finding a power forward who really IS a power forward. And figuring out what to do with Miller might become much more of a need, too, especially if his plantar fasciitis becomes problematic.

There are no easy fixes for the Kings. It's going to be a work in progress for a while. For that reason, I think we need to start addressing our needs and not just grab spare parts.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Build towards the future, draft with the mindset that the only position locked up is SG. IF we're serious about a complete rebuild we can't be worried about whether the players talents mix well with Artest, Bibby or Miller, it shouldn't matter. Build towards the future and let the chips fall where they may next year.

 

[BMiller52]

Well, Conley has a ton of potential. When we draft the good PFs(Jianlian, Horford, Wright, maybe Green) are probably all picked. So out of Hawes(C) or Conley(PG), who do you take considering Conley has a ton of potential IMO.

edit: yeah I posted this before I read your post Vlade4GM. I kind of agree, I mean it would suck to end up with a role player because we had to get a big this year and then watch a player we passed up turn into a star. On the other hand, I dunno if we can afford to keep passing up players in the frontcourt but also there should be some good PFs in next years draft also(Arthur, Gibson, Jordan).

 

[Vlade4GM]

Well, Conley has a ton of potential. When we draft the good PFs(Jianlian, Horford, Wright, maybe Green) are probably all picked. So out of Hawes(C) or Conley(PG), who do you take considering Conley has a ton of potential IMO.

edit: yeah I posted this before I read your post Vlade4GM. I kind of agree, I mean it would suck to end up with a role player because we had to get a big this year and then watch a player we passed up turn into a star. On the other hand, I dunno if we can afford to keep passing up players in the frontcourt but also there should be some good PFs in next years draft also(Arthur, Gibson, Jordan).

Well I think there should be an edge to bigs (like there should most of the time) but only because they're more rare of a find not because of our temporary roster needs. I just don't think we should overdraft just to get a big for the sake of a big. We need someone who will serve our future best, it's futile to pick someone just because because they will help us most now because we're not anywhere close to contention. We don't know where we're going to pick next year or who will eventually be enterting the draft (unless they're seniors), so we have to pick BPA within reason. Title contenders pick towards need. We're not contenders, we're a rebuilding team (hopefully).

 

[ParniValjak]

Best Player Available unless he is a SG.

I could actually see us picking Hawes if he is still available. A genuine 7" center with excellent post game, decent shot blocking ability and a bit of mongrel in him.

Sure he might not be able to jump out of the gym but he is very sound fundamentaly and its the sort of player Petrie likes. And if someone compares him to Miller, please go and watch some tapes of this kid and you will quickly change your mind.

 

[Bricklayer]

We need forntcourt help. LOTS of frontcourt help. And this is the draft to get it.

Now does that mean you pass up a clearly BPA to get it? No. But it does mean that if you CAN'T get it from the #10, then Geoff has to try his damndest to do something he's never done before -- trade up. You can't just sit back and let the chips fall where they may. You have to make your own luck sometimes.

 

[Vlade4GM]

We need forntcourt help. LOTS of frontcourt help. And this is the draft to get it.

Now does that mean you pass up a clearly BPA to get it? No. But it does mean that if you CAN'T get it from the #10, then Geoff has to try his damndest to do something he's never done before -- trade up. You can't just sit back and let the chips fall where they may. You have to make your own luck sometimes.

Trade up to where? Who wants to move down for Ron Artest or Brad Miller?

 

[Smills91]

Trade up to where? Who wants to move down for Ron Artest or Brad Miller?

Celtics

 

[Bricklayer]

Trade up to where? Who wants to move down for Ron Artest or Brad Miller?

Or Bibby two days after the trade.

Half the teams ahead of us are targets.

Boston, Atlanta, Memphis, Chicago, maybe even Minny. The way the draft worked out there are few teams who's draft position matches up nicely with their needs. Atlanta, Boston, Memphis alreayd have their PFs of the future, yet PFs are projected to go intheir spots. Chiacgo is ready to win now. Lots of possibilities.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Or Bibby two days after the trade.

Half the teams ahead of us are targets.

Boston, Atlanta, Memphis, Chicago, maybe even Minny. The way the draft worked out there are few teams who's draft position matches up nicely with their needs. Atlanta, Boston, Memphis alreayd have their PFs of the future, yet PFs are projected to go intheir spots. Chiacgo is ready to win now. Lots of possibilities.

Boston? I don't see them wanting Bibby, doesn't really solve anything for them. They already have a good young shoot first PG in D. West and have a good young pass first PG in Rondo, they're taken care of there. Don't think they'll make a move for a PG unless it's an elite PG which Bibby is not.

Atlanta? Maybe. Still don't think that Bibby is worth the no.3 though, but I have no idea how they view Bibby, I would think they would want a pure PG over Bibby but that's just my guess.

Memphis? Perhaps, I'm hearing that West likes Horford quite a bit and it's very possibe they see him as a potential C, especially if they're running an up tempo offense. I think they'd rather take Conley than trade for Bibby who has an expensive and uncertain contract.

Chicago? I don't know who you really had in mind on who they would want and would it be worth the trouble trading up for Hawes?

 

[Gary]

Need. Definitely need. BPA will be a 6'8 200lbs SF which we have too many of to begin with.

I see us taking (in this order if available at 10)
1. Yi jianlian
2. Joakim Noah
3. Jason Smith

Good thing about all the three listed above is that we won't need to invest in a backup Center because we can move any of those three over to the C spot when resting out center. This of course in a smaller lineup. But all three are legit 7 footers.

I can't see the Kings really competing for anythign this year so it would be neat if we did get Hibbert next year to go along with a PF this year.

Another thing that might be nice is to grab the Heat's #20 and take Acie Law, and maybe grab the Rockets #26 as well and get Fazekas.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Need. Definitely need. BPA will be a 6'8 200lbs SF which we have too many of to begin with.

I see us taking (in this order if available at 10)
1. Yi jianlian
2. Joakim Noah
3. Jason Smith

Good thing about all the three listed above is that we won't need to invest in a backup Center because we can move any of those three over to the C spot when resting out center. This of course in a smaller lineup. But all three are legit 7 footers.

I can't see the Kings really competing for anythign this year so it would be neat if we did get Hibbert next year to go along with a PF this year.

Another thing that might be nice is to grab the Heat's #20 and take Acie Law, and maybe grab the Rockets #26 as well and get Fazekas.

So we're going to use our lottery pick to save us money on having to get a backup center in order to compete for the 8th seed? I'd much rather get someone who has much more long term value.

Acie Law won't fall to 20, probably won't even fall past LAC.

 

[Entity]

I am like VF21 pg is an afterthougt with our hole in the frontcourt. Bibby played very well with a decent frontcourt in fact some say he carried us to the WCF that year. so if need be he can fill the pg spot until we get the players in the frontcourt we need. then we address that issue. NOW if both can happen at the same time or the same offseaon then I am all for it. But First Things First.

 

[chelle]

We NEED frontcourt help. For years, we have drafted BPA and it has given us sme good players, but we still suffer season after season with the same weaknesses- frontcourt and defense. If we can get help at the 4 or even 5, we should grab it. If there are no frontcourt players of any value left at our spot, then you go for the best available. If we pick another guard or small forward and there are quality big guys left, I WILL SCREAM!!!!!!

 

[Gary]

So we're going to use our lottery pick to save us money on having to get a backup center in order to compete for the 8th seed? I'd much rather get someone who has much more long term value.

Acie Law won't fall to 20, probably won't even fall past LAC.

No no .. Backup C when our C is on the bench. Starting PF. A guy that can play both PF, and C.. Any of the three above could probally play for short periods at C, and start for us at PF.

 

[Vlade4GM]

No no .. Backup C when our C is on the bench. Starting PF. A guy that can play both PF, and C.. Any of the three above could probally play for short periods at C, and start for us at PF.

We need a difference maker that isn't a SG. People are acting as if we're competing for something next year, we're not. We need to build towards the future, not for the present because no matter how we draft or if we keep all our veterans we're still going to accomplish jack next year. I'm not against drafting a big, I'm against overdrafting a big just for the sake of a big. As far as I'm concerned Artest, Bibby, and Miller are not part of our future team and we need to think of them on draft night as if they weren't on the roster. All spots are open minus SG. Whether we get a big this year, next year, or the year after that makes little difference from my POV. I'll take Julian Wright, Thad Young, or Mike Conley over a Jason Smith any day of th week and twice on Sunday.

 

[Vlade4GM]

We NEED frontcourt help. For years, we have drafted BPA and it has given us sme good players, but we still suffer season after season with the same weaknesses- frontcourt and defense. If we can get help at the 4 or even 5, we should grab it. If there are no frontcourt players of any value left at our spot, then you go for the best available. If we pick another guard or small forward and there are quality big guys left, I WILL SCREAM!!!!!!

By your definition, what is a quality big man in this draft?

 

[vfettke]

in the right system (by right i mean "pretty much anything but Muss's") Bibby will still be an effective, if not great, PG. we don't have anyone like that at the 5. Miller just isn't all that useful anymore. i'd take Hawes over Conley just to help that weakness

besides... you can't teach 7'0"

 

[chelle]

By your definition, what is a quality big man in this draft?

Honestly, at this point, I'll settle for anybody over 6'8" that can manage rebound the ball and knock a few players from the other team out of the lane from time to time.

 

[BMiller52]

Yeah but Hawes is never going to run a team. Look at Chris Paul and Deron Williams, they REALLY make a difference. I'm not saying it's a sure thing for him to be as good as those guys, but he has the potential to be. Good PGs(no, not Bibbyish shoot 1st 2nd opton PGs) make a difference. They control the game. Utah wasn't any better than us last year but then Deron Williams explodes and they're in the Western Conference finals. Chris Paul immediately put the Hornets on his back and almost made the playoffs. I think Conley has A LOT more potential than Hawes(who I won't be uspet if we pick). You go by need and eventually you are going to be screwed because you won't have the talent you need. There are decent/good PF prospects in next year's draft like Darrel Arthur, DeAndre Jordan, Michael Beasley, and Taj Gibson. I don't know if we should pick a lesser player this year because he's a big man(Hawes) when we could definitely pick one next year anyway.

I mean yeah if Jianlian/B. Wright/Horford or even Noah are there when we pick and it's either them or Conley, you pick the big man. But those guys all have a bunch of potential. Hawes can be a good player IMO, but he doesn't have the potential Conley does. And if you're being realistic you'll realize they probably won't be there when we pick. Hey I guess it's possible, Rudy Gay slipped last year for example, but I doubt it'll happen.

 

[fnordius]

Unless you're Portland, you won't be getting both a big and the BPA. Smaller guys who play really good basketball are much easier to come by, and that's all there is to it. If we stick with BPA every time, we might be waiting another decade for a big. That's half of the reason that people say to draft big and trade small (the other half is that the best bigs almost never get traded).

So if there's a huge talent discrepency, especially if the #2 pick were to be a pass-first PG, then I suppose it's gotta be the BPA, but if the difference is less than enormous, especially if we're talking a tweener, then I want a big.

 

[Merdiesel]

You always take the best available player.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Honestly, at this point, I'll settle for anybody over 6'8" that can manage rebound the ball and knock a few players from the other team out of the lane from time to time.

I'm sure you can find someone like that in the free agent market, we don't have to waste our lotto pick just to add a role player for "now" when the "now" is irrelevant since we won't compete for anything worthwhile.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Yeah but Hawes is never going to run a team. Look at Chris Paul and Deron Williams, they REALLY make a difference. I'm not saying it's a sure thing for him to be as good as those guys, but he has the potential to be. Good PGs(no, not Bibbyish shoot 1st 2nd opton PGs) make a difference. They control the game. Utah wasn't any better than us last year but then Deron Williams explodes and they're in the Western Conference finals. Chris Paul immediately put the Hornets on his back and almost made the playoffs. I think Conley has A LOT more potential than Hawes(who I won't be uspet if we pick). You go by need and eventually you are going to be screwed because you won't have the talent you need. There are decent/good PF prospects in next year's draft like Darrel Arthur, DeAndre Jordan, Michael Beasley, and Taj Gibson. I don't know if we should pick a lesser player this year because he's a big man(Hawes) when we could definitely pick one next year anyway.

I mean yeah if Jianlian/B. Wright/Horford or even Noah are there when we pick and it's either them or Conley, you pick the big man. But those guys all have a bunch of potential. Hawes can be a good player IMO, but he doesn't have the potential Conley does. And if you're being realistic you'll realize they probably won't be there when we pick. Hey I guess it's possible, Rudy Gay slipped last year for example, but I doubt it'll happen.

Yea, size should be a tie breaker, nothing more.

 

[BMiller52]

I'm sure you can find someone like that in the free agent market, we don't have to waste our lotto pick just to add a role player for "now" when the "now" is irrelevant since we won't compete for anything worthwhile.

That's definitely my opinion. Heck we already have a guy like that, Justin Williams. We need to add talent IMO, because in the end talent wins games. Then again I don't know because there'll be a ton of great guards next year also, so who knows. But I also like the PFs in next year's draft.