Boogie named to All-NBA Second Team

Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#31
#31
KingMilz said:
Did you read what I quoted? Neither of them are clutch at the end of games is what I was trying to say. The fact is DJ minus Blake still with Cp3/JJ/Jamal lead the Clippers to one of the better records in the NBA which is why he got the nod over Cousins for NBA first team. It's also why in the past the likes of Marc Gasol/Noah finished ahead of him as well. If winning was not taken into account than Cousins would be #1 and Big KAT would probs be #2 this year in terms of C's but you have to take winning into account since it's the reason (other than enjoying the sport) you play in the first place.
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Winning is a lazy catchall claim in a team sport. Teams win, not individuals. Kobe Bryant once had a losing season averaging 35ppg.

Let's flip things around and see just how well the Clippers do with Boogie on that team instead of Jordan. Oddly I'm thinking they win at least as many, with the only hesitation coming form Jordan's tendency to never get hurt.
 
King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#32
#32
Bricklayer said:
Winning is a lazy catchall claim in a team sport. Teams win, not individuals. Kobe Bryant once had a losing season averaging 35ppg.

Let's flip things around and see just how well the Clippers do with Boogie on that team instead of Jordan. Oddly I'm thinking they win at least as many, with the only hesitation coming form Jordan's tendency to never get hurt.
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How about we visualize DeAndre on the Kings instead of Big Cuz? Now that would be a team that would struggle to score, ugh!

One other thing not being mentioned is DeAndre getting this award after the way he jilted the Mavericks. I'm sure DeAndre would not get many votes in Dallas.
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#35
#35
Bricklayer said:
Winning is a lazy catchall claim in a team sport. Teams win, not individuals.
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I wish more people would understand this simple truth. I've been preaching it for many years, especially when it comes to discussing NFL QB's and MLB pitchers. No matter how good they may be, they can't single handedly win a title. You have to have help. A lot of help. This isn't singles tennis or boxing or MMA.

That said, I do acknowledge that, of the 4 major sports, basketball is the easiest for 1 or 2 players to make a huge difference and carry a team (hockey comes in 2nd). There's only 5 players and each player can make an impact on both offense and defense. Obviously can't do that in football. And baseball has nearly twice as many players and contains more individual aspects to it.

Regardless, it's still a team sport and you often can only be as good as your weakest link.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#36
#36
Yep, not surprised. Winning still and should matter with these award selections. Jordan was not better than Boogie, but he was the 2nd best player on a team that overachieved with Blake out for so long and he was still really damn good this season. You all have said it already; we make the playoffs, Boogie is 1st team
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#37
#37
The_Jamal said:
Yep, not surprised. Winning still and should matter with these award selections. Jordan was not better than Boogie, but he was the 2nd best player on a team that overachieved with Blake out for so long and he was still really damn good this season. You all have said it already; we make the playoffs, Boogie is 1st team
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Soooo, its not how good you are individually, its how good your teammates are. Right? Here's how I would decide. Lets have a game of one on one with Jordan and Cousins. First player to 21 wins first team honors. I know who I'd put my money on.
 
kupman

kupman

Starter
#38
#38
I have been pretty hard on DMC over the past few years. Having said that, the idea the DAJ is better than DMC is somewhere between laughable and absurd. This is an example of why I hardly pay attention to these things anymore.
 
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The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#39
#39
bajaden said:
Soooo, its not how good you are individually, its how good your teammates are. Right? Here's how I would decide. Lets have a game of one on one with Jordan and Cousins. First player to 21 wins first team honors. I know who I'd put my money on.
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Pretty much. Not that it's right or fair, but that's pretty much how every sport decides their individual awards. Team success is one of the most important factors in voting. MVP pool mostly is the top player on the 3-4 best teams. DPOY pool is the best defenses/players from playoff teams. All-NBA is the best in the playoffs (as evidenced by 14/15 this season)
 
A

Amit149

Bench
#40
#40
The_Jamal said:
Pretty much. Not that it's right or fair, but that's pretty much how every sport decides their individual awards. Team success is one of the most important factors in voting. MVP pool mostly is the top player on the 3-4 best teams. DPOY pool is the best defenses/players from playoff teams. All-NBA is the best in the playoffs (as evidenced by 14/15 this season)
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There is at least some reasoning to that- the impact and numbers players make on bad teams usually diminsh on better teams.
It's one thing to be a 20 point scorer on a 25 win team and another to do it on a 60 win team.

I don't think anyone can make a good argument for DeAndre Jordan being better than Cousins though...
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#42
#42
SomebodyDoSomethin said:
Cousins clearly got robbed and we all know it. We can make excuses to feel better about it but there is clear motive. DeAndre Jordan???? Come on...
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If you were to pick the best 5 players this year for the first team: Curry/KD/Lenoard//LeBron/Westbrook he would not make it I'm also not sure Cousins had a better year than guy who made the 3rd team like Lowry/George (both lead average talent teams to good w/l records) than guys like DeMar/Harden that didn't even make it honestly with us not making the playoffs (make excuses to feel better) he might not even be a top 10 player this year so in fact due to his position him/DJ/Drummond are lucky to even have made the All NBA teams. If it were not based on position he would be on the 3rd team at best.
 
SomebodyDoSomethin

SomebodyDoSomethin

Bench
#43
#43
KingMilz said:
If you were to pick the best 5 players this year for the first team: Curry/KD/Lenoard//LeBron/Westbrook he would not make it I'm also not sure Cousins had a better year than guy who made the 3rd team like Lowry/George (both lead average talent teams to good w/l records) than guys like DeMar/Harden that didn't even make it honestly with us not making the playoffs (make excuses to feel better) he might not even be a top 10 player this year so in fact due to his position him/DJ/Drummond are lucky to even have made the All NBA teams. If it were not based on position he would be on the 3rd team at best.
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But it's based on position soooooo...
 
Boogie_Fever

Boogie_Fever

G-League
#46
#46
I was actually worried that Boogie wasn't going to make it to any All NBA team. With how some of the "popular" NBA writers talk about Cousins' "poisonous" attitude thought they would rub off on the rest of the voters and keep him out all together. Good thing most of the voters aren't big doofus' that watched from the stands growing up and actually played basketball at some point in their lives. Zach Lowe and the rest of those pretentious pricks can go kick rocks.
 
PBNJ85

PBNJ85

G-League
#47
#47
Next yr they will toss out the Center position as a voting choice in their planned extinction of dominant big men making the problem moot.
 
N

Npliam

Starter
#48
#48
Amit149 said:
There is at least some reasoning to that- the impact and numbers players make on bad teams usually diminsh on better teams.
It's one thing to be a 20 point scorer on a 25 win team and another to do it on a 60 win team.

I don't think anyone can make a good argument for DeAndre Jordan being better than Cousins though...
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Offensively you couldn't. Impact on the game? Not so sure.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#52
#52
The_Jamal said:
Pretty much. Not that it's right or fair, but that's pretty much how every sport decides their individual awards. Team success is one of the most important factors in voting. MVP pool mostly is the top player on the 3-4 best teams. DPOY pool is the best defenses/players from playoff teams. All-NBA is the best in the playoffs (as evidenced by 14/15 this season)
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The only sport where it's different is baseball. Willie Mays got voted all everything whether his team won or not, and he was on some losing teams. Ditto Ted Williams and Stan Musial. I could go on and on. However, baseball, while a team sport, is more of an individual game. You don't need anyone to pass you the ball, or create a shot for you. You field and bat as an individual. You just happen to be part of team. Actually, as a hitter, being on a bad team with bad hitters, made it tougher because other teams tended to pitch around you. So if you still hit over 300 and had a 100 rbi's, you earned them all on your own. But I digress. In basketball your right. Not fair, it is what it is.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#56
#56
Npliam said:
Yeah, it isn't like defense and offensive efficiency effect games outcomes.
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Getting spoon fed a handful of dunks every game is not offensive efficiency. Its not offense at all. And it is absolutely incapable of replacing a true offensive player. It doesn't scale up. It creates no opportunities for teammates. We had 2 other centers with nice limited offensive games for comparison. Did not work without Cousins. Rondo could spoon feed them a few DeAndre hoops, but Rudy could not function with all the attention on him, Rondo had to turn into a scorer, and the whole thing went to crap every time. Its as dumb as me saying that if the 90s Jazz had replaced Mailman with Dikembe they would have won about the same amount. No they wouldn't.

And the gap between the impact of the two players on defense is not what you think it is. Jordan carried a 4.11 DPRM, which was 6th in the league. Cousins carried a 3.33, which was 12th. Last year Cousins carried a 4.71 (4th) while Jordan carried a 2.43 (37th).

We win at about 15 win pace sans Cousins. Give us Jordan, maybe we can make that 20-22, with Rudy Gay as our featured scorer, and the amazing spacing only a Rondo/Ben/Rudy/Willie/DeAndre lineup can provide. More likely we sacrifice defense and throw Omri out there. Or maybe we can try to run our sexy/defensively disastrous twin-6'1" PG linuep out there to make up the 15-20 missing points a night.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#57
#57
Bricklayer said:
Getting spoon fed a handful of dunks every game is not offensive efficiency. Its not offense at all. And it is absolutely incapable of replacing a true offensive player. It doesn't scale up. It creates no opportunities for teammates. We had 2 other centers with nice limited offensive games for comparison. Did not work without Cousins. Rondo could spoon feed them a few DeAndre hoops, but Rudy could not function with all the attention on him, Rondo had to turn into a scorer, and the whole thing went to poopoo every time. Its as dumb as me saying that if the 90s Jazz had replaced Mailman with Dikembe they would have won about the same amount. No they wouldn't.

And the gap between the impact of the two players on defense is not what you think it is. Jordan carried a 4.11 DPRM, which was 6th in the league. Cousins carried a 3.33, which was 12th. Last year Cousins carried a 4.71 (4th) while Jordan carried a 2.43 (37th).

We win at about 15 win pace sans Cousins. Give us Jordan, maybe we can make that 20-22, with Rudy Gay as our featured scorer, and the amazing spacing only a Rondo/Ben/Rudy/Willie/DeAndre lineup can provide. More likely we sacrifice defense and throw Omri out there. Or maybe we can try to run our sexy/defensively disastrous twin-6'1" PG linuep out there to make up the 15-20 missing points a night.
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Not sure why you bother! This is the same guy who thinks Favors is a better player than Cousins and has been arguing about it "head in the sand style" ever since. It's like Lowe not voting for Cousins at all. Highly predictable!
 
Ron

Ron

Starter
#58
#58
Bricklayer said:
Getting spoon fed a handful of dunks every game is not offensive efficiency. Its not offense at all. And it is absolutely incapable of replacing a true offensive player. It doesn't scale up. It creates no opportunities for teammates. We had 2 other centers with nice limited offensive games for comparison. Did not work without Cousins. Rondo could spoon feed them a few DeAndre hoops, but Rudy could not function with all the attention on him, Rondo had to turn into a scorer, and the whole thing went to poopoo every time. Its as dumb as me saying that if the 90s Jazz had replaced Mailman with Dikembe they would have won about the same amount. No they wouldn't.

And the gap between the impact of the two players on defense is not what you think it is. Jordan carried a 4.11 DPRM, which was 6th in the league. Cousins carried a 3.33, which was 12th. Last year Cousins carried a 4.71 (4th) while Jordan carried a 2.43 (37th).

We win at about 15 win pace sans Cousins. Give us Jordan, maybe we can make that 20-22, with Rudy Gay as our featured scorer, and the amazing spacing only a Rondo/Ben/Rudy/Willie/DeAndre lineup can provide. More likely we sacrifice defense and throw Omri out there. Or maybe we can try to run our sexy/defensively disastrous twin-6'1" PG linuep out there to make up the 15-20 missing points a night.
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Well put,
But you could've just summed it up crisply, to save your breath in the face of borderline TROLLING:

☆ Kings with DMC (actual): 33 Ws.
☆ Kings with DAJ (projected): 20 Ws.
(Down 40%, to Laker-level sucking)
 
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Npliam

Starter
#59
#59
Čarolija said:
Not sure why you bother! This is the same guy who thinks Favors is a better player than Cousins and has been arguing about it "head in the sand style" ever since. It's like Lowe not voting for Cousins at all. Highly predictable!
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This is just patently false to the point of being willfully obtuse or woefully ignorant.
 
N

Npliam

Starter
#60
#60
Ron said:
Well put,
But you could've just summed it up crisply, to save your breath in the face of borderline TROLLING:

☆ Kings with DMC (actual): 33 Ws.
☆ Kings with DAJ (projected): 20 Ws.
(Down 40%, to Laker-level sucking)
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I am just not so sure that is the case. I am not saying that there would be no difference but I am not really sure what the difference would be. They are 2 totally different players playing totally different roles. Jordan can't do what Demarcus can do but the same can be said the other way around.
 
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