Bogi vs Luka per 36?

#31
Who knows but Luka has been better than Bogie at every age despite what per36 says
Id rather have Bogi as he’s capable of playing defense and the Kings don’t have to hide him on that side of the ball. Wrap,your head around that. But really, nothing against Doncic as I was high on him too but when it comes to the Kings, I don’t give an eff about the kid anymore. I’m all in on Bagley and Fox and Hield and Bogi.
 
#32
I am lost here. You’re comparing a 19 year old Phenom to a 26 year old player? Doncic scored 11 straight points last night to seal the deal for Dallas.

Bogdan will never, ever be as good as this kid. I will bet my rental properties in it.

Doncic has generational talent written all over him. He will put that Dallas team on his back and possibly lead them to the playoffs this year. That, in itself is Amazing.

Neither Bogdan nor Bagley have that kind of talent.

Comparison of the 2 would make sense if they weren’t almost a decade apart in age.
 
#33
I think the Kings simply thought Bagley was the better player and from what we have seen so far they could well be correct.

Luka plays like the polished pro he is. His timing on the gather, his multidirectional step back, his overall court vision are things a seasoned pro has. Which like Bogi, Luka was when he came over.

Bagley by contrast skipped his senior year of high school, joined Duke in September, played on an AAU team coached by his dad (a football player).

Even given those differences, Bagley’s per 36 numbers are remarkably close to Luka’s.

https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular Season&PerMode=Per36&PlayerExperience=Rookie

We may well be saying in 3 years, I’m so glad we picked Bagley just like we are saying the same about Fox who has a worse rookie season than Bagley.
Per 36 does not take into account intangibles and is not a very accurate gauge of a players effectiveness. If that’s the Case Justin Jackson is a great Sf.

Doncic is generational. He’s a kid. He’s taking over games. Did you bother to watch what he did last night. That’s star quality. If the Mavs make the playoffs this year., it will be in large part To Doncic.

I like Bagley and I hope he can be great one day. But, right now the chasm of talent between Doncic and Bagley is massive.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#34
I am lost here. You’re comparing a 19 year old Phenom to a 26 year old player? Doncic scored 11 straight points last night to seal the deal for Dallas.

Bogdan will never, ever be as good as this kid. I will bet my rental properties in it.

Doncic has generational talent written all over him. He will put that Dallas team on his back and possibly lead them to the playoffs this year. That, in itself is Amazing.

Neither Bogdan nor Bagley have that kind of talent.

Comparison of the 2 would make sense if they weren’t almost a decade apart in age.
No, you're not lost. You're just adamant in your belief that any post that doesn't unabashedly declare Luka to be the greatest thing since sliced bread is either irrelevant or wrong.

Some of us are going to wait a bit longer before we quit criticizing, analyzing, etc. As upsetting as it is to you, you're just gonna have to deal with it.
 
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#35
Per 36 does not take into account intangibles and is not a very accurate gauge of a players effectiveness. If that’s the Case Justin Jackson is a great Sf.

Doncic is generational. He’s a kid. He’s taking over games. Did you bother to watch what he did last night. That’s star quality. If the Mavs make the playoffs this year., it will be in large part To Doncic.

I like Bagley and I hope he can be great one day. But, right now the chasm of talent between Doncic and Bagley is massive.
I don’t think Doncic is markedly better than Bogdan this instant, but who wouldn’t love to have a 19 year old Bogdan with size? I agree that per 36 is not the most effective stat either.

I understand also the fit argument on draft night. If you had two prospects who you thought were around the same talent, you’d take the better fit. We have multiple ball handlers already, Luka would ostensibly take the ball out of Fox’s hands. Bagley fits the uptempo style of ball too.

The problem, as you say, is that the chasm between what Luka/Bagley is showing is too great now. Which calls into question prudence and accountability if it continues. Would be a lot healthier environment if the chasm slimmed over the course of the year.

But to the original point, I think Bogdan/Luka are around the same tier of talent this instant, which speaks to what Bogdan is doing. Though doesn’t IMO make the chasm of what Luka/Bagley have done to date as of tonight less hard hitting for me
 
#36
Per 36 does not take into account intangibles and is not a very accurate gauge of a players effectiveness. If that’s the Case Justin Jackson is a great Sf.

Doncic is generational. He’s a kid. He’s taking over games. Did you bother to watch what he did last night. That’s star quality. If the Mavs make the playoffs this year., it will be in large part To Doncic.

I like Bagley and I hope he can be great one day. But, right now the chasm of talent between Doncic and Bagley is massive.
Per 36 is useless when comparing a 30 min guy to a 5 min guy. In that case the starts are mere outliers. It’s more relevant in Bagley’s case because he is playing 20-25 min a game and will clearly see a boost with more minutes.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#39
The only places on the internet you'll find fans underselling Luka is on Kings, Suns and Hawks forums.

I love Bogdan and he's a top 2 player for the Kings, completely underutilized, but Luka is an entirely differently class of player.

I wasn't lying when I said in person he was one of the most impressive 18 yr olds I've ever seen. I'd like to know WTF people are looking at when they watch him. The talent is clear as day. He's doing stuff at 19, less than 30 games into his NBA career that top 15 NBA players can't do.
 
#40
The only places on the internet you'll find fans underselling Luka is on Kings, Suns and Hawks forums.

I love Bogdan and he's a top 2 player for the Kings, completely underutilized, but Luka is an entirely differently class of player.

I wasn't lying when I said in person he was one of the most impressive 18 yr olds I've ever seen. I'd like to know WTF people are looking at when they watch him. The talent is clear as day. He's doing stuff at 19, less than 30 games into his NBA career that top 15 NBA players can't do.
Haven’t been on Hawks pages yet but Phoenix seems distraught that they passed on him

Its true, if we had the 4 th pick and didn’t pass on Luka he tone in here would be different
 
#41
What might be the point of this thread in this part of the forum? Shouldn’t this go back to one of the 2 Doncic threads in the other area?
I forgot about the board's not crazy not hyper defensive stance that "any" discussion that brings up Luka "regardless of what other player is being discussed" may not be in Kings forum.

And I'm certain this is a long consistent tradition. I'm sure any Peja vs Dirk discussion for example, or Tyreke vs Steph convo for example... I'm pretty sure they were all treated the exact same way.

So I'm super with it... I super understand that Luka Doncic must never be mentioned in the Kings forum no matter what. You do a a great job board monitors - and it can't be easy.
 
#42
I am lost here. You’re comparing a 19 year old Phenom to a 26 year old player? Doncic scored 11 straight points last night to seal the deal for Dallas.

Bogdan will never, ever be as good as this kid. I will bet my rental properties in it.

Doncic has generational talent written all over him. He will put that Dallas team on his back and possibly lead them to the playoffs this year. That, in itself is Amazing.

Neither Bogdan nor Bagley have that kind of talent.

Comparison of the 2 would make sense if they weren’t almost a decade apart in age.
I wanted to see their contributions side-by-side because I was interested in what their contributions look like side-by-side. I didn't realize it would enrage Luka fans and mods alike.

Just was curious how they stacked up right now, for the fun of it.
 
#44
I forgot about the board's not crazy not hyper defensive stance that "any" discussion that brings up Luka "regardless of what other player is being discussed" may not be in Kings forum.

And I'm certain this is a long consistent tradition. I'm sure any Peja vs Dirk discussion for example, or Tyreke vs Steph convo for example... I'm pretty sure they were all treated the exact same way.

So I'm super with it... I super understand that Luka Doncic must never be mentioned in the Kings forum no matter what. You do a a great job board monitors - and it can't be easy.
I’m curious, do you think it’s a done deal that Luka will be better than Bagley in 3 years? Or have you seen enough from Bagley to think differently.

BTW, I’m not saying Bagley is better than Luka today. But I do see flashes with Bagley that hint at something really special.
 
#45
I’m curious, do you think it’s a done deal that Luka will be better than Bagley in 3 years? Or have you seen enough from Bagley to think differently.

BTW, I’m not saying Bagley is better than Luka today. But I do see flashes with Bagley that hint at something really special.
I am glad we got Bagley 100%. I'm just salty at heavy handed modding.

I wanted Luka.

Learned that Thursday on my way to the draft party at G1C that it was gonna be Bagley and made myself get on board.

Am whole-heartedly on board now and I think Kings fans who gnash their teeth and moan every time Luka puts up a hilight reel are damaged and can't be happy :)

I just, merely, honestly, wondered what Bogi/Luka stats looked at side-by-side that's all. I think already having a poor man's Luka AND a franchise stud in Fox changed the equation between Luka and Marvin.

I
AM
GLAD
WE
HAVE
MARVIN
 
#46
I am glad we got Bagley 100%. I'm just salty at heavy handed modding.

I wanted Luka.

Learned that Thursday on my way to the draft party at G1C that it was gonna be Bagley and made myself get on board.

Am whole-heartedly on board now and I think Kings fans who gnash their teeth and moan every time Luka puts up a hilight reel are damaged and can't be happy :)

I just, merely, honestly, wondered what Bogi/Luka stats looked at side-by-side that's all. I think already having a poor man's Luka AND a franchise stud in Fox changed the equation between Luka and Marvin.

I
AM
GLAD
WE
HAVE
MARVIN
Fair point and I agree the moderation on this board is often heavy handed. I agree the Bogdan and Luka comparison is interesting.
 
#47
Am whole-heartedly on board now and I think Kings fans who gnash their teeth and moan every time Luka puts up a hilight reel are damaged and can't be happy :)
Or can’t be happy with the FO :)

I mean, if your someone who personally hasn’t been agreeable to the tenure, and then this..

Actually from my perspective, if Luka shows franchise stuff, and Marvin ’continues’ developing on a bit of a different path, I don’t understand not having enmity for the decision maker and going on as if nothing happened. But maybe I’m a critical Virgo :)

That also gets into the team now and how much acumen you think when into it, which I find subjective/controversial

I’ve 100% accepted and root for Marvin as a player, my bones aren’t with him. Hope he does well
 
#48
No, you're not lost. You're just adamant in your belief that any post that doesn't unabashedly declare Luka to be the greatest thing since sliced bread is either irrelevant or wrong.

Some of us are going to wait a bit longer before we quit criticizing, analyzing, etc. As upsetting as it is to you, you're just gonna have to deal with it.
Just like your gonna have to deal with this is never going to stop. I understand your salty that your savior Vlade Divac will be responsible for passing on what might be the best player that could have played for the kings. Deal with it. It’s gonna get worse for you and those others who are twisting themselves into pretzels trying to convince themselves that bagley will eventually be better or oh yeah, I’d rather have bogie over doncic. That’s a friggin doozy but not surprising at this site.

Passing on doncic will be vlades legacy. Deal with that.
 
#49
Just like your gonna have to deal with this is never going to stop. I understand your salty that your savior Vlade Divac will be responsible for passing on what might be the best player that could have played for the kings. Deal with it. It’s gonna get worse for you and those others who are twisting themselves into pretzels trying to convince themselves that bagley will eventually be better or oh yeah, I’d rather have bogie over doncic. That’s a friggin doozy but not surprising at this site.

Passing on doncic will be vlades legacy. Deal with that.
Right
Bagley will be better than Luka cause Curry ended up better than Tyreke. Haha some people man
 
#50
Just like your gonna have to deal with this is never going to stop. I understand your salty that your savior Vlade Divac will be responsible for passing on what might be the best player that could have played for the kings. Deal with it. It’s gonna get worse for you and those others who are twisting themselves into pretzels trying to convince themselves that bagley will eventually be better or oh yeah, I’d rather have bogie over doncic. That’s a friggin doozy but not surprising at this site.

Passing on doncic will be vlades legacy. Deal with that.
I wanted Luka as much as the next guy, and think he will be awesome, but there is nothing else that can be Vlade's legacy? That's it, it's passing on Luka? If the Kings become a winning team after 12 years could that not be it? If the Kings finally make the playoffs finally after all this time why can't that be his legacy? Are you saying regardless of the level of success that the Kings may end up having, Vlade's legacy will be passing on Luka?
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#52
Just like your gonna have to deal with this is never going to stop. I understand your salty that your savior Vlade Divac will be responsible for passing on what might be the best player that could have played for the kings. Deal with it. It’s gonna get worse for you and those others who are twisting themselves into pretzels trying to convince themselves that bagley will eventually be better or oh yeah, I’d rather have bogie over doncic. That’s a friggin doozy but not surprising at this site.

Passing on doncic will be vlades legacy. Deal with that.
Two things can be true at the same time.

1) Vlade should have picked Luka and screwed up the highest pick this franchise has seen in years.

2) Vlade has put together a pretty good team which looks to be a regular in the playoffs for years to come.
 
#53
Two things can be true at the same time.

1) Vlade should have picked Luka and screwed up the highest pick this franchise has seen in years.

2) Vlade has put together a pretty good team which looks to be a regular in the playoffs for years to come.

I believe both thing a true
 
#54
The only places on the internet you'll find fans underselling Luka is on Kings, Suns and Hawks forums.

I love Bogdan and he's a top 2 player for the Kings, completely underutilized, but Luka is an entirely differently class of player.

I wasn't lying when I said in person he was one of the most impressive 18 yr olds I've ever seen. I'd like to know WTF people are looking at when they watch him. The talent is clear as day. He's doing stuff at 19, less than 30 games into his NBA career that top 15 NBA players can't do.
I don’t think anyone is questioning Luka’s skill. And your comments are correct. His timing and footwork on his gather and steps is already elite right now. He could easily be the most skilled rookie ever.

The question is how much better can he get? His gather can’t really improve much because as we agree it’s already elite. People can learn and improve on Skill. Athleticism and BBIQ can’t be taught. The true super stars are elite in all 3.

It will be a fascinating question to see play out over the next 3 years.
 
#55
The only places on the internet you'll find fans underselling Luka is on Kings, Suns and Hawks forums.

I love Bogdan and he's a top 2 player for the Kings, completely underutilized, but Luka is an entirely differently class of player.

I wasn't lying when I said in person he was one of the most impressive 18 yr olds I've ever seen. I'd like to know WTF people are looking at when they watch him. The talent is clear as day. He's doing stuff at 19, less than 30 games into his NBA career that top 15 NBA players can't do.
I’m curious why you are so confident Luka will be better than Bagley in 3 years. Especially looking at Fox and Mitchell today.

Mitchell came in with 2 years experience to Fox’s one and looked much better year 1. In year 1, Fox was a late addition to the rising stars challenge, didn’t make 1st or 2nd team all rookie. In year 2, he deservedly is getting mentioned for all star consideration and Mitchell appears to have plateaued.

The gap in previous experience between Luka and Bagley is orders of magnitude more than Mitchell and Fox. Like Fox, Bagley has elite quickness and athleticism. It just might be too soon to tell how they will be in 3 years and I’m not discounting Luka.
 
#56
It’s quite possible that the two best players in this draft will be Doncic and Bagley. I’m not down on Ayton either or JJJ. All of these guys have areas to work on.
Doncic, for me, is his body and his defense.
Bagley needs to refine his offensive game and team defense
Ayton....effort level on defense
JJJ....strength and refine offensive game.

I thought we were taking Doncic and had Bags 2. I’m not disappointed in the least though as Bagley looks like a franchise big when it’s all said and done. That has nothing to do with Doncic, Ayton or JJJ.

If we were not playing well and Bagley was looking ordinary then yeah, it would be disheartening but we are not even close to that.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#57
Just like your gonna have to deal with this is never going to stop. I understand your salty that your savior Vlade Divac will be responsible for passing on what might be the best player that could have played for the kings. Deal with it. It’s gonna get worse for you and those others who are twisting themselves into pretzels trying to convince themselves that bagley will eventually be better or oh yeah, I’d rather have bogie over doncic. That’s a friggin doozy but not surprising at this site.

Passing on doncic will be vlades legacy. Deal with that.
I don't have a problem with passing on Luka. I wouldn't have had a problem drafting him. Sorry, but I think Vlade is working on a vision and, based on the results I'm seeing right now, I believe in that vision.

Have a nice day.
 
#58
I’m curious why you are so confident Luka will be better than Bagley in 3 years. Especially looking at Fox and Mitchell today.

Mitchell came in with 2 years experience to Fox’s one and looked much better year 1. In year 1, Fox was a late addition to the rising stars challenge, didn’t make 1st or 2nd team all rookie. In year 2, he deservedly is getting mentioned for all star consideration and Mitchell appears to have plateaued.

The gap in previous experience between Luka and Bagley is orders of magnitude more than Mitchell and Fox. Like Fox, Bagley has elite quickness and athleticism. It just might be too soon to tell how they will be in 3 years and I’m not discounting Luka.
Fox was a top 5 pick by everyone and Mitchell was around 10-14. Mitchell literally came out of nowhere Fox was supposed to be better based on tape. Luka looked worlds better on tape and now showing that in the pros
 
#59
Interesting thread. Bogi is more efficient and the better handler. Luka has more boards, because he plays as a 4.

That said, to do an apples to apples comparison, you have to deflate Bogi's numbers by 7 years. This assumes that Luka will continue to develop and that Bogie has reached his ceiling. Big assumptions, which may just lead to more spinning wheels.
 
#60
Fox was a top 5 pick by everyone and Mitchell was around 10-14. Mitchell literally came out of nowhere Fox was supposed to be better based on tape. Luka looked worlds better on tape and now showing that in the pros
I have a unique perspective, because I wanted either Doncic, Bags, or Miles Bridges. In that order, but would've been fine with any of them.

Doncic was plug and play ready. That was obvious. Thought he was Mike Miller with better handles, a Gordon Hayward (pre-injury) type of player. Nothing that he has done has changed that.

Bags is the kind of big that every WINNING team needs. Frenetic energy. Bouncy, with the best feet of any big since Dennis Rodman. I was a bit scared in SL, but have been completely happy with how he's performed. He's 19 and is going to get much, much better.

Let's see where they are in year 4. Just be glad we got Bags instead of Ayton (go to the Brightsideofthesun.com to see how their fans feel about him) or Trae Young (all of the pros and cons have been bare for all to see).