Bibby to Cleveland...on again, off again, etc.

#1
http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/270946.html

The Mike Bibby trade talks between the Kings and Cleveland Cavaliers have resurfaced, according to a league source.
Although the discussions between Kings basketball president Geoff Petrie and Cavs general manager Danny Ferry have temporarily stalled -- all indications are they will continue -- a three-team deal appears to have come close to taking place. Though all of the terms of the deal are not known, the source said Bibby would have gone to the Cavaliers for forward Drew Gooden, while San Antonio center Jackie Butler also would have been sent to the Kings.
When the deal stalled, the Spurs -- according to numerous reports -- eventually agreed to send Butler and Argentine forward Luis Scola to the Houston Rockets for guard Vassilis Spanoulis, a future second-round pick and cash considerations. The Kings-Cavs deal, however, remains a focal point for both teams. It has been five months since the Kings came so close to trading Bibby to the Cavaliers, with discussions taking place up to the Feb. 22 trading deadline.
Gooden, 25, was long believed to be the centerpiece of the package coming the Kings' way, but his $6.4 million salary for the 2007-08 season is far from enough to make the deal work for Bibby, who will earn $13.5 million this season. Bibby has a player option for the 2008-09 season, but he would be paid $14.5 million if he finishes out his contract. Gooden's deal expires after the 2008-09 season, in which he will be paid $7.1 million.
Asked about the three-team talk and the prospect of Bibby going to Cleveland, Petrie declined to discuss any specifics.
"We're always open to listening to other teams," he said. "That's how, ultimately, things get done. But as far as discussing the specifics of anything like that, we're just really not prepared to talk about those type of specifics until we consummate something and then we'll be more than happy to talk about it."
Ironically, Gooden -- whose Cavs fell to San Antonio in the NBA Finals -- entered UNLV's Cox Pavilion gym with an associate of Kings co-owners Joe and Gavin Maloof before Sacramento's summer-league game against New York. At halftime, the Maloofs and team president John Thomas merrily chatted with Gooden in the corner of the gym. The Kings lost the game 96-84.
The 6-foot-10, 250-pound Gooden is entering his sixth NBA season. He instantly would aid the Kings' woeful rebounding efforts, as he has averaged 7.9 rebounds during his career and is known for his strong efforts on the offensive glass. He also has a career average of 12.1 points.
Gooden's arrival also would produce an even greater glutton of power forwards on the Kings' roster, with Kenny Thomas and Shareef Abdur-Rahim already unhappy splitting time and big man Justin Williams having recently signed a one-year deal with a team option for a second season.
"Whatever happens, happens," said Gooden, who played prep basketball at El Cerrito High School. "I've been hearing talk for six years."
Just as Petrie seemed to have cooled on the notion of trading Ron Artest, it appears moving Bibby is at the top of the priority list. And although the Cavs' Finals appearance seemed to limit the odds of Ferry retaining interest in Bibby, the GM appears motivated to add another piece in an attempt to remain atop the Eastern Conference. The emergence of rookie guard Daniel Gibson during the playoffs seemed to dispel the notion that Bibby would be coveted by Cleveland, but after being swept in the Finals, the Cavs were left knowing they need more.


Bibby, who turned 29 in May, is coming off a season in which he shot a career-low 40.4 percent from the field and averaged 17.1 points. A hand and thumb injury suffered during the exhibition season, though, contributed to a slow start, and it lingered throughout much of the season.
About the writer:


Drew Gooden

 
#2
and big man Justin Williams having recently signed a one-year deal with a team option for a second season.


SO justin has been signed..sweet!:D Love bibby and all but its time to move on, so hopefully something gets done soon.
 
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#6
I sure hope SAR or Thomas is going in this deal as well. Not too many 1 for 1 trades these days. Who else could the Cavs send our way? And I guess this would mean we aren't getting Yi.

PG-Garcia?
SG-Martin
C-Miller
PF-Gooden
SF-Artest
 
#7
I sure hope SAR or Thomas is going in this deal as well. Not too many 1 for 1 trades these days. Who else could the Cavs send our way? And I guess this would mean we aren't getting Yi.
It can't be a 1 for 1 trade. Bibby earns way more than Gooden does. To get Bibby, the Cavs would have to give us more than just Gooden.
 
#8
Don't want Gooden, no D and inconsistent offense.
Gooden plays defense, and he plays it well. He'll put his body into people and sometimes pick up a block too.

This guy averaged 8.5 rebounds a game. Now this number might not sound all that impressive at first, but keep in mind the Cavs have Big Z and Varejao running around out there as well.

Z grabs almost 8 boards a game and Varejao coming off the bench gets 6. This is with LeBron getting almost 7 a game as well.

The Cavs are loaded with people who rebound, and Gooden's numbers on the Kings — a team that's horrible in that area — would probably be around 10-12 a game.

OK, sounds like a lot of good stuff I'm mentioning about Gooden, and there's a lot to like. His biggest problem? Consistency.

And as you pointed out, his offensive game is only OK.
 
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#9
Don't want Gooden, no D and inconsistent offense.

Uhh from what I saw in the POs he played very good D against Duncan and Sheed. He also has a pretty good mid range J and a few post moves. He's not great or anything but he is a pretty good player. I think he could get like 14-11 here with .9 blocks or something. I think a decent comparison is a poor man's Horace Grant? He's also still only 25 years old with a reasonable contract that expires the year after next season. He's not nearly as bad as you're making him out to be. He's also a local dude.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#10
Maybe not so much Horace Grant I think -- Grant was long and athletic and a good intimidator. He's more like a poor man's Boozer. Or maybe a softer dumber Brian Grant from back in the day.

He's not much better than the guys we have there now. Its a pointless trade unless we get a significant number of other pieces/picks out of it. Been a long time since we even had an above average PF, and we still wouldn't. Just sorting through it*, Gooden's not Top 15, and may not be Top 20. Better be some pretty sweet candy for us to add our THIRD mediocre too short veteran PF earning $7mil to the team.


P.S. about his defense -- last year he was playing solid man to man defense. Using his body. Or supposedly, because the Cavs really were a team where the whole was far greater than the individual parts on defense. You look at them -- Z is not nown as a good dfender, Gooden is not known as a good defender, LeBron is not known as a good defender, Pavlocic is not known as a good defender...and yet you throw those guys all out on the court together and get them to buy into a (incredibly boring) system, and the defense works. But will it translate if you swap one of those guys out of town? Gooden plays short. He cannot intimidate or challenge up high. He and Spenser together would have little if any hope inside defensively, let alone he and Brad. The rim would be wide open. Again. We would be short and stubby. Again.

* Guys definitely better: Randolph, Amare/Marion, Boozer, Gasol, Duncan, KG, Brand, O'Neal, Howard, Jamison, Dirk, Okafor, Bosh
Guys probably better: Harrington, Odom, Wilcox, Nene, Horford, Jefferson, Sheed, West
Guys who could be better: Aldridge, T. Thomas, Villanueva
Guys/teams not better: Haslem, Cleveland, Nets, Philadelphia, Scola
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#11
Secondary thought BTW:

Both Gooden and Damon Jones (who was also mentioned as part of the deal) look like more Webber trade medicore vet garbage. But one thing they do have is contracts that end after 08-09, thus preserving a free agent push for that offseaosn. Thing is...so does Bibby! So you gain nothing...it just keeps you in the same place. Thsi deal would have to be about more than that. Have to be about the OTHER pieces (kids, picks), or its just pointless.
 
#12
I believe it would be good for the future of the Kings as long as we get a couple more pieces. What I don't understand is we have a boat load of bigs on the roster. Maybe this means there is something else in the works to unload KT, SAR or Miller.
 
#13
Here's more from Amick's blog:

This time, Bibby trade looks likely

So the Mike Bibby to Cleveland trade talk is back in full force, and my gut is telling me for the moment that this deal eventually gets done.

For starters, the recent message from Kings basketball president Geoff Petrie that he's done looking to trade Ron Artest turns all attention to Bibby. And while stranger things have happened, there are very few people within and around this team who believe the Artest-Bibby will continue.

Yet while the Kings-Cavs trade chatter at Las Vegas summer league was discreet, there was nothing more noticeable than the lovefest surrounding Cavs forward Drew Gooden taking place during the Kings game. The Maloofs and Kings team president John Thomas all smiled and spoke with Gooden, who was equally affable.

You almost expected the whole group to walk across the way to the nearest conference room to announce their new player. But if, in fact, Gooden is headed for Sacramento, the questions surrounding Kenny Thomas and Shareef Abdur-Rahim only intensify.

Both players are well into their careers but far from ready to accept a "happy-to-be-here" attitude. They both wanted to play and didn't like sharing time before the Gooden factor, so a deal there seems all the more likely.

Other observations from the day at summer league...

Someone snuck a time machine into UNLV's Cox Pavilion, because I swear that was Rick Adelman, Geoff Petrie, Jerry Reynolds, Wayne Cooper and the rest of the gang chatting in the stands and watching summer league action just like the old days. Adelman's new Houston squad actually took on Dallas, but he visited with his old Kings contingent before and after the game. The absence of new Kings coach Reggie Theus made the scene look even more like it was 2005 all over again, as Theus was out of town for the day.

Admittedly, the Bibby talk meant I had only sporadic viewings of the Kings' 96-84 loss to New York, but at least the second half was much better than the first. Down 57-39 at halftime, point guard Mustafa Shakur (University of Arizona) scored 14 of his 19 points after the break while draft pick center Spencer Hawes (22 points) and point guard Pooh Jeter (22 points) were more steady. Kings assistant Kenny Natt said he had a strong message at halftime to his youngsters that seemed to help turn things. It's a good sign, too, that Natt won't be afraid to have a strong influence whenever it's needed.

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/007623.html
 
#14
They're definitely talking about a 3rd team in any Bibby to cavs deal, so therefore I HAVE to assume that Kenny and/or Shareef is dealt as well. Ideally, I'd LOVE to snag Joakim Noah from the Bulls...

Maybe the principles of the deal being Bibby to cavs, Gooden to Chicago and Noah to the Kings. The filler can be the negotiated portion of the deal I guess.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#15
Okay, as long as this may happen, let's make the damn thing work for us:


Sacto IN ($25.7+):
Drew Gooden $6.4mil (ends 08-09)
Damon Jones $4.2mil (ends 08-09)
Theo Ratliff $11.7mil (ender)
Ira Newble $3.4mil (ender)
+pic or kid from Boston

Sacto OUT($26.5):
Mike Bibby $13.5 (ends 08-09)
John Salmons $4.7 (ends 10-11)
Kenny Thomas $7.3 (ends 09-10)

Cleveland OUT ($26.0):
Larry Hughes $12.0mil
Drew Gooden $6.4mil
Damon Jones $4.2mil
Ira Newble $3.4mil

Cleveland IN ($25.5):
Mike Bibby $13.5mil
John Salmons $4.7mil
Kenny Thomas $7.3mil

Boston OUT ($11.7):
Theo Ratliff $11.7mil
+ pick or kid to Sac

Boston IN ($12.0):
Larry Hughes $12.0mil


WHYS
Sac Why: all about clearing those long term salaries baby. Moiving KT and Salmons in the deal frees up 2 of our 4 bad long termers, and an extra $12mil (which means 1 star) of free agency money for the 08-09 offseason. Gooden replaces Kenny, so shrug. Younger at least. Just a patch until 09 anyway when we hopefully upgrade. Jones is a familair veteran to stablize the point. And we get a little candy (kid or pick) from the Celtics as well.

Cle why: if they add Bibby without moving Hughes they would have FOUR players with $10mil dollar contracts -- 4 guys together earning $48mil (LeBron, Bibby, Hughes, Big Z). Sounds unsustainable to me. They also have been rumored to be shopping Hughes, trying to escape the contract. So this deal let's them unload a bunch fo their mistake contracts (Hughes, Jones, Newble) whiel getting replacements -- KT takes over for Gooden as rebounder, Salmons fills in for what they lost in Hughes, and Bibby is the big upgrade at point. Pavlovic and Bibby become a pair of perimeter guys who can actually shoot.

Bos why: with the Allen trade they are suddenly in win now mode -- Ray's only got a few years left. So take advantage, dump Hughes on them for virtually free, and they have the best set of OG/SFs in the league, without losing much of thier kiddie corps, and with Hughes swinging to the PG parttime to get his minutes.
 
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#16
Okay, as long as this may happen, let's make the damn thing work for us:


Sacto IN:
Drew Gooden $6.4mil (ends 08-09)
Damon Jones $4.2mil (ends 08-09)
Theo Ratliff $11.7mil (ender)
Ira Newble $3.4mil (ender)
+pic or kid from Boston

Sacto OUT:
Mike Bibby $13.5 (ends 08-09)
John Salmons $4.7 (ends 10-11)
Kenny Thomas $7.3 (ends 09-10)

Cleveland OUT:
Larry Hughes $12.0mil
Drew Gooden $6.4mil
Damon Jones $4.2mil
Ira Newble $3.4mil

Cleveland IN:
Mike Bibby $13.5mil
John Salmons $4.7mil
Kenny Thomas $7.3mil

Boston OUT:
Theo Ratliff $11.7mil
+ pick or kid to Sac

Boston IN:
Larry Hughes $12.0mil


WHYS
Sac Why: all about clearing those long term salaries baby. Moiving KT and Salmons in the deal frees up 2 of our 4 bad long termers, and an extra $12mil (which means 1 star) of free agency money for the 08-09 offseason. Gooden replaces Kenny, so shrug. Younger at least. Just a patch until 09 anyway when we hopefully upgrade. Jones is a familair veteran to stablize the point. And we get a little candy (kid or pick) from the Celtics as well.

Cle why: if they add Bibby without moving Hughes they would have FOUR players with $10mil dollar contracts -- 4 guys together earning $48mil (LeBron, Bibby, Hughes, Big Z). Sounds unsustainable to me. They also have been rumored to be shopping Hughes, trying to escape the contract. So this deal let's them unload a bunch fo their mistake contracts (Hughes, Jones, Newble) whiel getting replacements -- KT takes over for Gooden as rebounder, Salmons fills in for what they lost in Hughes, and Bibby is the big upgrade at point. Pavlovic and Bibby become a pair of perimeter guys who can actually shoot.

Bos why: with the Allen trade they are suddenly in win now mode -- ray's only got a few years left. So take advanatage, dump Hughes on them for virtually free, and they have the ebst set of OG/Sfs in the league, without losing much of thier kiddie corps, and with Hughes swinging to the PG parttime to get his minutes.
I'm ready to start a Brick for GM campaign.
 
#17
Kings/Cavs/Bulls

Kings deal:
Mike Bibby
Kenny Thomas

Kings receive:
Rights to Joakim Noah
Chris Duhon
Eric Snow
Ira Newble
David Wesley
Viktor Khryapa

Bulls deal:
Chris Duhon
Viktor Khyrapa
Adrian Griffin
Rights to Joakim Noah

Bulls receive:
Drew Gooden
Damon Jones
Cavs 2008 lotto protected first

Cavs deal:
Gooden
Snow
Newble
Wesley
Jones
2008 lotto protected first

Cavs receive:
Mike Bibby
Kenny Thomas
Adrian Griffin

Kings waive the expirings of Wesley(only partially guaranteed) and Ira Newble.

Kings new roster:
C: Brad Miller, Spencer Hawes, Justin Williams
PF: Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Joakim Noah
SF: Ron Artest, Francisco Garcia, Viktor Khyrapa
SG: Kevin MArtin, John Salmons, Quincy Douby
PG: Chris Duhon, Ronnie Price, Eric Snow

1 of Daryl Watkins/Mustafa Shakur/Pooh Jeter gets the 15th spot.
 
#18
i was thinking:

Artest, Mo Williams to Miami
Bibby to Cleveland
Varejao, someone else to Mil
Yi to us

there would need to be a lot of filler in there to make the contracts work though
 
#20
I don't think there's any way Boston would trade Ratliff for Hughes, especially not at this juncture in the summer, and I don't see why Chicago would trade Noah.

IMO it would be a simpler deal. Something like:

Sac outgoing:
Bibby
KT

Sac incoming:
Gooden
Jones
Newble
??? (Something -- pick, young player, etc., but nothing THAT valuable since Cleveland would take on KT's deal. Jackie Butler is a good measuring stick.)

Cleveland incoming:
Bibby
KT

Cleveland outgoing:
Gooden
Snow
Newble
???
 
#22
there damn well better be picks involved for us then

or AV
Well, a straight up Gooden and Jones for Bibby deal does not work cap wise so something else would have to be involved. I think Jones may have been in the talks that took place yesterday and his salary does match up with Butler's and he may have been the one going to the Spurs. Not really a Pop type of player but you never know.
 
#23
Well, a straight up Gooden and Jones for Bibby deal does not work cap wise so something else would have to be involved. I think Jones may have been in the talks that took place yesterday and his salary does match up with Butler's and he may have been the one going to the Spurs. Not really a Pop type of player but you never know.
I could see the Spurs being interested in Eric Snow as a backup PG more than Jones, but either way, the Spurs clearly they weren't liking what they were seeing since they basically traded Butler for a bag of potato chips.
 
#24
they basically traded Butler for a bag of potato chips.
Which is pretty much what he is worth :p

By the way....Unlike our other "short and stubby"(as Brick would put it) front line Gooden does have some height as he measured a legit 6'10" before the draft. Also had almost a 9 foot standing reach which is probably about 2 feet more than Kenny :D
 
#26
Bibby for Gooden and Jones just doesn't make any sense from the Kings' standpoint. Gooden is an average PF at best and Jones is a journeyman PG, both are overpaid. The Kings are in rebuilding mode and any trade must consist of one or more of these four things.

1. Young players with a lot of potential
2. Future draft picks
3. Expiring contracts or contracts that expire before the ones of the players we give up
4. Willing to take on our bad contracts

This trade does none of those four things and as far as talent goes Bibby is a much better player than those two. The Kings already have Thomas and Shareef at PF and I'm sure Hawes and Miller will see some time there and now Justin Williams is really making a name for himself so there's no room there.

There better be more to it than this or Petrie really has lost it.
 
#27
Hey Brickie/Ryle/NBRANS, questions:

Who do you think is the best player that would "fit the team" best? SAR, KT, or Gooden? If you traded KT or SAR (if we got Gooden), would you still go for Yi or Noah? Also, why cant we get "cash considerations" like Seattle got for Lewis? They got like 9 million. What gives?
 
#28
Bibby for Gooden and Jones just doesn't make any sense from the Kings' standpoint. Gooden is an average PF at best and Jones is a journeyman PG, both are overpaid. The Kings are in rebuilding mode and any trade must consist of one or more of these four things.

1. Young players with a lot of potential
2. Future draft picks
3. Expiring contracts or contracts that expire before the ones of the players we give up
4. Willing to take on our bad contracts

This trade does none of those four things and as far as talent goes Bibby is a much better player than those two. The Kings already have Thomas and Shareef at PF and I'm sure Hawes and Miller will see some time there and now Justin Williams is really making a name for himself so there's no room there.

There better be more to it than this or Petrie really has lost it.
As contracts go Gooden's is pretty reasonable as it's a little more than what the MLE is for this year and he only has one more year left. Jones is overpaid but it's still not too bad in the whole scheme of things.
 
#29
Which is pretty much what he is worth :p

By the way....Unlike our other "short and stubby"(as Brick would put it) front line Gooden does have some height as he measured a legit 6'10" before the draft. Also had almost a 9 foot standing reach which is probably about 2 feet more than Kenny :D
Agreed. Gooden isn't great, but his rebounds per 48 are top 10 in the NBA (14.6 to 12.8 for KT). Gooden also doesn't throw cruise missiles at the rim from 3 feet away. I don't know how trading Bibby for Gooden and Damon Jones makes any sense at all without draft picks or young guys, but Gooden IS better than KT.
 
#30
Not to mention I'd rather play a guy who averaged about 12 points and 8 boards in 30 minutes during the playoffs then a still unproven player(Williams) over the long haul. Williams can provide what we need in limited minutes but he still hasn't shown he can contribute over a lengthy period of time.