Beno Enough With The Turnovers.

[OptimusRhyme]

Beno needs to slow it down and not drive into traffic as much, he gets 2 or 3 stupid turnovers that are avoidable almost everygame. Communicate out there Beno you've got good PG skills use them dude.

I think this team just needs alot more communication and ball movement and that starts at the point guard. Pick it up Beno.

#5th in Total Turnovers (64)
#7th Turnovers per game (3.05)
#8th Turnovers per 48 minutes (4.63)

 

[Jer]

I'd love to sugar-coat it, but Beno is garbage. I lamented bitterly when we gave him the MLE, and his cementing the PG slot here in Sacramento was a significant setback to our rebuild.

It's not just that he turns the ball over consistently, but I see him frequently blaming and yelling at his teammates like they were out of position and it's their fault. Combined with the fact that he's a lousy defender and complains at refs and at the rest of the team while the other team is running the floor, it really makes me wish we had someone else running our offense.

In case you're wondering, his 1.7 AST/TO ratio is 69th among point guards. Guys like Luke Ridnour, Mo Williams, Ronnie Price, and Bobby Brown (at 60th with 1.91) all have better ratios.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

Beno does turn the ball over more than a PG should, and sometimes in the most infuriating ways. However, some of the blame lies with the team's offensive strategy. Numerous times I've seen Beno dribble all the way to the hoop to be challenged by a shotblocker, and the nearest open guy is Spencer or Brad parked out at the corner 3.

Ideally, if our point guard actually manages to collapse the defense by himself, he should have an open passing lane to somebody going to the hoop. As it is, more often than not he just gets himself into trouble and dumps the ball out to our plus-sized shooters.

 

[Kingster]

If a quality pg is available in the draft, it sure would be nice to draft one. The thing that stands out about Beno is his relentless pursuit of dribbling in traffic. How many times has he done that made a turnover because of it? It makes you wonder about his smarts, which is especially important in point guards.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

In case you're wondering, his 1.7 AST/TO ratio is 69th among point guards. Guys like Luke Ridnour, Mo Williams, Ronnie Price, and Bobby Brown (at 60th with 1.91) all have better ratios.

And so do guys like Blake Ahearn and Mike James and Marcus Williams and Will Bynum. Those four guys have 22 assists between them, though. When you find 68 PGs who have better A/Ts than Beno, you do have to keep in mind that there are only 30 teams in the league, so you're looking at a sample that's more than two PGs deep per team - and you start running into sample size problems.

That's not to say that Beno's A/T is good - only Farmar, Jarrett Jack, and Westbrook have a lower A/T with at least 50 assists, which probably puts Beno at 29th among starting PGs - but we shouldn't go around suggesting Blake Ahearn is better just because his A/T is higher.

 

[fnordius]

In Beno's best year at SA, he barely squeaked above a 2.0 A/TO ratio. High A/TO is just not Beno. I think you might as well ask Brad to become famous for his airborne dunks.

 

[tyrant]

im glad people are starting to realize. he isnt anyones starter. i never wanted to give up mike. AND LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING GUYS, to all the guys that wanted mike out....i watched the game between the hawks and the mavericks saturday night. every minute. the hawks were down by 18 in the 4th quarter. bibby and joe johnson scored the final 20-24 points for the hawks to get them within 2. a dumb turnover by smith cost the hawks the game in the finals seconds. hawks are well above .500. and may i add bibbys shooting percentage is higher than its been in a few years.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

im glad people are starting to realize. he isnt anyones starter. i never wanted to give up mike. AND LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING GUYS, to all the guys that wanted mike out....i watched the game between the hawks and the mavericks saturday night. every minute. the hawks were down by 18 in the 4th quarter. bibby and joe johnson scored the final 20-24 points for the hawks to get them within 2. a dumb turnover by smith cost the hawks the game in the finals seconds. hawks are well above .500. and may i add bibbys shooting percentage is higher than its been in a few years.

Bibby is doing quite well (46% FGs ~44% 3FGs ~16 ppg ~3.08 assist per turnover ratio) and are definitely superior to Beno's right now, but a lot of this has to do with environment. The Hawks are chasing after a playoff berth...and we are not. Bibby simply wouldn't have done well in this environment at all--when we traded him he was in a noticeable decline (4 ppg down from the previous year, and I recall he was throwing up absolute stinkers with his increasingly streaky outside shot--stuff like 3-16, 4-15 from the field) and to this day, we made the right move. He's 30, and wouldn't have fit our youth movement--if we're pissed off at most of our vets right now, I wonder if Bibby would've received the same treatment--if I recall many of us were already pissed at his stinkers and were calling for a fresh face when he was traded. We made the right move, and let bygones be bygones

 

[tradepeja]

omg. Beno is bad this year, most likely because his work ethic is way WAY down after securing a long-term deal, but this is no reason to say we should have kept Bibby. At least Beno is only 26 and only costs 5.5 mill a year.

Bibby is one of the top salaries in the league this year.

 

[Bricklayer]

Oh that's ridiculous. Mike Bibby clearly does not belong on this team and would be doing nothing but damage to us at this point.

Now of course that does not mean that Beno is the guy to replace him though. Considerably disappointing start. He's never going to be great, just a solid placeholder a the high end, but the turnovers and defense are making him a liability too many nights. Turnovers at least might be corrected somewhat if we stabilize -- he's pressing, and he does not have that kind of talent. Insert him into a stable winning lineup where he can play within himself, I suspect the turnovers fall back to more reasonable levels. The defense...

 

[VF21]

Bibby is doing quite well (46% FGs ~44% 3FGs ~16 ppg ~3.08 assist per turnover ratio) and are definitely superior to Beno's right now, but a lot of this has to do with environment. The Hawks are chasing after a playoff berth...and we are not. Bibby simply wouldn't have done well in this environment at all--when we traded him he was in a noticeable decline (4 ppg down from the previous year, and I recall he was throwing up absolute stinkers with his increasingly streaky outside shot--stuff like 3-16, 4-15 from the field) and to this day, we made the right move. He's 30, and wouldn't have fit our youth movement--if we're pissed off at most of our vets right now, I wonder if Bibby would've received the same treatment--if I recall many of us were already pissed at his stinkers and were calling for a fresh face when he was traded. We made the right move, and let bygones be bygones

Great post and excellent assessment of the real situation.

I wish Mike Bibby all the luck in the world and I do not regret trading him for even a minute.

 

[Jer]

which probably puts Beno at 29th among starting PGs - but we shouldn't go around suggesting Blake Ahearn is better just because his A/T is higher.

The players I all mentioned get sufficient minutes as to not render their statistics meaningless; I only threw Bobby Brown in there since he's Udrih's backup and many people would like to see him get a bump in minutes.

To put things in perspective among all qualified point guards in the league, Beno is 44th, in front of only Jordan Farmar, Jarrett Jack, and Russell Westbrook.

Westbrook only recently became the starter (replacing Earl Watson, who had a pretty decent ratio), so Beno would either be last or second to last in A/T ratio among starters, depending on how you want to look at it. Either way, it's not pretty.

 

[CruzDude]

omg. Beno is bad this year, most likely because his work ethic is way WAY down after securing a long-term deal, but this is no reason to say we should have kept Bibby. At least Beno is only 26 and only costs 5.5 mill a year.

And Beno has excellent PG size at a true 6-3 and 205 plus he is only 26. He is still learning the starting role and his own role at the most difficult position on any team. I agree he gets 2-3 dumm TO's a game trying to drive to the basket thru 2-3 defenders. BUT if the Kings wings and bigs would go to the basket to give him some easy layoffs for easy layups, they would stop doing that. In most all cases where he gets hammered driving there is not a wing or big in sight anywhere going to the basket as a plan-B.

We are impatient this year for sure but Beno is only 20 games into his first real year starting with the benefit of a training camp AND he is playing with a carousel of other starters each with different abilities and moves. So he is doing OK considering the mess the team is in at the moment.

Another big problem is the Catch 22 that Theus finds himself in: develop the "kids" but win some games to get more fans buying tickets. I think he has to leave Beno in there and show some support to him while he too "develops". Now with Kevin about 80% and Cisco maybe 90% we are a few games away from them being able to take over a closer game late to get a win. Hawes is nearing that point too but not until later this year.

So stick with Beno and get him some dish-off help going to the basket.

 

[bajaden]

Oh that's ridiculous. Mike Bibby clearly does not belong on this team and would be doing nothing but damage to us at this point.

Now of course that does not mean that Beno is the guy to replace him though. Considerably disappointing start. He's never going to be great, just a solid placeholder a the high end, but the turnovers and defense are making him a liability too many nights. Turnovers at least might be corrected somewhat if we stabilize -- he's pressing, and he does not have that kind of talent. Insert him into a stable winning lineup where he can play within himself, I suspect the turnovers fall back to more reasonable levels. The defense...

Ya beat me to it. I couldn't agree more. A lot of Beno's turnovers are unforced and totally his fault. But some are just a result of miscomunication between him and the reciepient of the pass.

This just my opinion, but I think Reggie's idea of playing an uptempo game is having negative results. When you throw a bunch of players that haven't played together for very long and then add in inexperienced young players, your going to get the results your getting in an uptempo game. He might be wise to slow it down and simplify the offense. It might not be as exciting to watch, but it may cut down on the turnovers.

 

[HighTopKicks]

And Beno has excellent PG size at a true 6-3 and 205 plus he is only 26. He is still learning the starting role and his own role at the most difficult position on any team. I agree he gets 2-3 dumm TO's a game trying to drive to the basket thru 2-3 defenders. BUT if the Kings wings and bigs would go to the basket to give him some easy layoffs for easy layups, they would stop doing that. In most all cases where he gets hammered driving there is not a wing or big in sight anywhere going to the basket as a plan-B.

We are impatient this year for sure but Beno is only 20 games into his first real year starting with the benefit of a training camp AND he is playing with a carousel of other starters each with different abilities and moves. So he is doing OK considering the mess the team is in at the moment.

Another big problem is the Catch 22 that Theus finds himself in: develop the "kids" but win some games to get more fans buying tickets. I think he has to leave Beno in there and show some support to him while he too "develops". Now with Kevin about 80% and Cisco maybe 90% we are a few games away from them being able to take over a closer game late to get a win. Hawes is nearing that point too but not until later this year.

So stick with Beno and get him some dish-off help going to the basket.

Great points:

On your idea of driving into traffic, I would add that SAlmons, Martin, & BJax are also failing in this area. And, I think the reason is that we are such a poor 3pt shooting team right now, that teams are packing in on the paint. Also, our lack of offense from the PF lets them play off more and defend the paint.

As far as the A/T ratio, I don't think any Kings PG will ever rank highly here because of our lack of catch & shoot players. Martin, Salmons,& BJax are most likely to dribble before shooting as are most of our bigs.

I would like Beno to stop passing the ball to the bigs at the top of the circle and at the high wing especially Moore & Williams. Offensively they aren't going to do anything there and will have to pass it again which doubles the chances of a turnover. Also, he needs to wait for his screeners, he often moves before they are set. So, that besides not losing his man, he ends up being doubled by the screeners man.

 

[tyrant]

Ya beat me to it. I couldn't agree more. A lot of Beno's turnovers are unforced and totally his fault. But some are just a result of miscomunication between him and the reciepient of the pass.

This just my opinion, but I think Reggie's idea of playing an uptempo game is having negative results. When you throw a bunch of players that haven't played together for very long and then add in inexperienced young players, your going to get the results your getting in an uptempo game. He might be wise to slow it down and simplify the offense. It might not be as exciting to watch, but it may cut down on the turnovers.

and itll cut down on scoring. this team couldnt play an uptempo, half tempo, ford tempo. we dont have anyone good enough to draw a double team. and that creates problems. spencer will begin to command doubles pretty soon. i really think he can be that good. look at the phoenix suns. they stink. they're an uptempo team. porter wants the game slowed down. and they're suffering because of it. he'll be fired soon! we're not in the same boat. when you mix bad players with bad players they're not going to suck because they have no chemistry, they're going to suck because they just suck.

 

[CruzDude]

HighTopKicks, Agree with your additional comments as well. The Bigs and wings don't seem to move toward the basket when Beno drives, whether thats their fault or the coaching remains to be seen.

Hawes is slowing getting better about getting a shot up right away. JT seems to have more an instinct to shoot quickly but has yet to deal with the level of defense he gets sending him into fakes which then make the ball very vulnerable.

But you are right, Beno will become a good servicable PG and will get better when the team around him gets better and moves more to support his drives.

 

[SCKingsfan]

Turnovers at least might be corrected somewhat if we stabilize -- he's pressing, and he does not have that kind of talent. Insert him into a stable winning lineup where he can play within himself, I suspect the turnovers fall back to more reasonable levels

I agree with some of the latter comments in this thread re Beno. he can be careless, but it is clear that part of the problem is that he's trying to do too much. it's hard to captain an offense that sucks and be efficient at it. he's an aggressive offensive player, and that's not a bad thing. right now, there is no penalty for playing careless, sloppy, out of control offense. it's the norm. on a good team, you'd sit somebody on the bench who's playing that way until they got more consistent. the problem is that everyone else is as wildly inconsistent.

beno is not a great defender at this point, but let's not even compare to bibby. At 37, I could wiggle my knees and freeze that guy off the dribble. imho, beno would be a decent offensive captain on a decent team. I don't think I agree with the statement that he shouldn't be starting in this league. but I agree he'd be a very good backup to a superstar point guard (it's his mo, right?) I'd be happy with a lottery pguard to challenge him .

 

[bajaden]

and itll cut down on scoring. this team couldnt play an uptempo, half tempo, ford tempo. we dont have anyone good enough to draw a double team. and that creates problems. spencer will begin to command doubles pretty soon. i really think he can be that good. look at the phoenix suns. they stink. they're an uptempo team. porter wants the game slowed down. and they're suffering because of it. he'll be fired soon! we're not in the same boat. when you mix bad players with bad players they're not going to suck because they have no chemistry, they're going to suck because they just suck.

I'm not so sure it would cut down on the scoring. When the team shoots under 29% for the game, how much worse can it get. Actually, Spencer is getting doubled now. As is Thompson on occasion. Look, your smart and I know you got what I meant, and I'm willing to respond to your posts as long as they stay outside of the extreme. When you use the words suck and bad with All, then your becoming extreme. I understand that it might make you feel better after the last game, but its very hard to respond to.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

We let Beno control a ton of the offense. He plays as if he's Steve Nash out there, and not nearly as good, hence the turnovers. Put him in a position where he can play off of someone else while still getting chances to probe the defense then we'll likely see the turnovers come down.

 

[CruzDude]

WELL, WELL, WELL!!! Beno in Laker game: 12 pts, 5 ast and only 2 TO!!!! And he got every point driving thru their D as he had been kicking out for other easy scores opening the middle some. And tonight the wings and bigs were rotating to the bucket on Beno and Salmons drives. 11 offensive rebs!!!

Beno a bit more a keeping now, eh?

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

WELL, WELL, WELL!!! Beno in Laker game: 12 pts, 5 ast and only 2 TO!!!! And he got every point driving thru their D as he had been kicking out for other easy scores opening the middle some. And tonight the wings and bigs were rotating to the bucket on Beno and Salmons drives. 11 offensive rebs!!!

Beno a bit more a keeping now, eh?

Beno historically always does well against the Lakers. It's the other games.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Beno historically always does well against the Lakers. It's the other games.

Maybe it's because he's now better or as good as Derrick Fisher, especially as that Laker PG ages and Beno continues to grow, get better.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Good job tonight Beno the one turnover wasnt your fault either.. Just a bad call and you showing some hustle.
props keep it up!

 

[Warhawk]

Beno historically always does well against the Lakers. It's the other games.

Maybe we just need to play the Lakers every game? It seems to bring out some good in our team....

 

[Kingster]

Beno historically always does well against the Lakers. It's the other games.

Yep. He plays well against point guards that aren't that quick (Lakers), but against quicker point guards, he really struggles.

 

[Bricklayer]

Yep. He plays well against point guards that aren't that quick (Lakers), but against quicker point guards, he really struggles.

That might be a stereotype -- I don't think there's particulary been a pattern that way at all. He had one of his biggest games against Parker. Did well against A.I. Had Harris contained for 47 minutes just a week or two ago. Yet has struggled against Chauncey and Deron and even Steve Blake -- not really darts.

 

[Kingster]

That might be a stereotype -- I don't think there's particulary been a pattern that way at all. He had one of his biggest games against Parker. Did well against A.I. Had Harris contained for 47 minutes just a week or two ago. Yet has struggled against Chauncey and Deron and even Steve Blake -- not really darts.

That's a good point, though I don't know how well he did against Parker defensively. Personally, I think Harris stopped himself; he just wasn't aggressive at all in that game until the 4th quarter. BJ played well against Paul, not Beno. I just wonder if Beno is a guy who has only so much in the tank and just can't consistently give you good production over many games. Maybe because he does have so-so athleticism and quickness for a point guard he has to put out even more energy every game just to stay even. He's the antithesis of the player that makes it look easy, because it is. He makes it looks difficult, because it is.

 

[bench_blob]

I'd love to sugar-coat it, but Beno is garbage. I lamented bitterly when we gave him the MLE, and his cementing the PG slot here in Sacramento was a significant setback to our rebuild.

It's not just that he turns the ball over consistently, but I see him frequently blaming and yelling at his teammates like they were out of position and it's their fault. Combined with the fact that he's a lousy defender and complains at refs and at the rest of the team while the other team is running the floor, it really makes me wish we had someone else running our offense.

In case you're wondering, his 1.7 AST/TO ratio is 69th among point guards. Guys like Luke Ridnour, Mo Williams, Ronnie Price, and Bobby Brown (at 60th with 1.91) all have better ratios.

Beno is not garbage. Your post is garbage. Some of his TOs have been rather atrocious, granted, but these are correctable mistakes.

Surround him with better talent, put more ballhandlers on the court, esp. Cisco @ 30-35 minutes a game, bring back K-Mart, and with another 10-20 games under his belt with the current unit, these TO woes will take care of themselves.

He's not a 5:1 assist to TO guy like a CP3, but he's not near as bad as we have seen.

 

[ESP47]

I think Beno is the biggest problem on this team right now. He's too old to still be learning how to not turn the ball over. The guy is a great offensive player. He scores with accuracy, can finish, has a nice 3 ball and FT %. His problem is his turnovers and they just kill this team. We would have an extra 3-4 wins even if we had a non scoring PG that could just take care of the ball and get 5-7 AST a game. He costs us 8-10 points a game sometimes with his stupid plays. His offense helps but it's not enough to overcome his TO's and inability to set guys up with easy shots.