Bee: Artest not happy with role last night

[Troy]

Some random thoughts/possibilities:

1) this was some sort of backwards appeal to management to step in and explain to the young coach how it is gonna be
2) in his efforts to control Ron could Muss have resorted to blaming it on word from above? As in "hey Ron, I think you;re great, but management says..."
3) the Kevin Martin phenomenon. Playing off my pet theory of course, but they are marketing Keivn hard, every time I hear the Kings announcers I think they are going to have to excuse themselves to go to the bathroom and get a baby wipe, and maybe that is making Ron insecure. Maybe he is even trying to send a message to Kings management about it of the remember which side your bread is buttered on variety. He's several times referred to Kevin as "All Star", which I took as a compliment, but maybe he just got tired of hearing it and so was almost mocking? dynamic exactly.

Yeah, the All Star thing is interesting, Ron could be feeling like he isn't getting the respect he deserves. Also I feel he is refering to the Maloofs and how they wined and dined him to get him to come to Sac and now he isn't the main option on offense so he is feeling punked I think. Ron is nearly unstoppable going to the hoop with his strength and wide/strong body so why doesn't he keep doing this and defending which he is the best in the league at instead of feeling his is a Kobe or early years Bulls with Jordan needing to carry the team. He isn't this type of player that can make impossible shots and hit them like Kobe and Jordan could. He is good at driving to the hoop and defending and using his muscle and effort, he's isn't lightning fast and athletic like a Kobe or Jordan.

For all the defensive focus being preached, it sure is going in one ear and out the other at least lately. In the early part of the season it was great to see, why cannot we keep this up? Why did we ditch it? We show it from time to time, but not with any regularity. Also our offense is just way out of sync. Too much 1 on 1 and SAR getting double and tripled teamed and not passing out the open guy, and Ron and Mike jacking on shots early into the 24 second allowance that aren't good shots. Why we don't set the pecking order of KMart #1, Mike #2, SAR/Brad #3/4, Ron to be used in here somewhere for his driving to the hoop rather than his shooting ability, especially shooting 3s.

 

[gunks]

I'd love to see Ron get more touches in the post. But the guy just likes chucking up long jumpers too much.

He needs to be more Bonzi less Bibby with his offense. Everytime he gets the ball behind the 3 pt line I wince and mentally prepare myself for a horrible brick.

The dude is big, he needs to just attack more.

 

[Troy]

I'd love to see Ron get more touches in the post. But the guy just likes chucking up long jumpers too much.

He needs to be more Bonzi less Bibby with his offense. Everytime he gets the ball behind the 3 pt line I wince and mentally prepare myself for a horrible brick.

The dude is big, he needs to just attack more.

I'm sorry to beat a dead horse, but I would have loved to see more Bonzi and Artest together shoving the ball down the opponents throats by driving to the hoop.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think what's most interesting is that the first purveyor of your Kevin vs. Ron theory might be Ron. And here I thought it was going to be a hasty fan.

Oh I think hasty fans have already started going there as well. But if this does have anything to do with it...didn't take long. And I think now that Rick can be taken out of the equation as an excuse, a repeat of this dynamic might well be 1 part issues with the fanbase, 1 part organizational tonedeafness, and 2 parts human nature.

 

[BMiller52]

I think it's more of a Bibby vs Ron thing honestly IF there is any thing going on there. It's like they're battling to see who can brick more jumpers or something.

BTW the reason teams are killing us on D now and we were playing good D at the beginning(IMO) is teams have figured out Muss's "defensive scheme". It's like he tried to cover up our problems on the inside by giving up Js but he failed horribly cuz now teams know they only need to drive it inside.

 

[nbrans]

Oh I think hasty fans have already started going there as well. But if this does have anything to do with it...didn't take long. And I think now that Rick can be taken out of the equation as an excuse, a repeat of this dynamic might well be 1 part issues with the fanbase, 1 part organizational tonedeafness, and 2 parts human nature.

I don't understand what you mean here. I haven't seen a single Kings fan suggest that we get rid of Ron or anything like that, nor have I seen any evidence that anyone in the Kings franchise is favoring Kevin. All I've seen are completely rational pleas for Kevin to take more shots and Ron to take better shots. This has nothing to do with the fanbase, the organization or human nature -- this is all in Ron's head.

 

[GoGoGadget]

I think it's more of a Bibby vs Ron thing honestly IF there is any thing going on there. It's like they're battling to see who can brick more jumpers or something.

BTW the reason teams are killing us on D now and we were playing good D at the beginning(IMO) is teams have figured out Muss's "defensive scheme". It's like he tried to cover up our problems on the inside by giving up Js but he failed horribly cuz now teams know they only need to drive it inside.

Aside from Ron's slight dig at Mike's defense a few days ago, I'd be surprised if there was anything there. Ron likes being a top dog, Mike likes having a top dog. Everyone happy.

 

[ezekielbear]

Problem to me is just a lack of roles.

Nobody knows their role. Everybody sans Kevin Martin thinks they are the #1 offensive option.

 

[bibbinator]

Perspective people. At this point I'm happy to see the Kings beating poor-middling teams on a regular basis. Winning against elite teams on away games is possible but not to be expected. This road trip is the hardest 5 days of the Kings schedule. It could easily go 0-4 without some good luck (like Ginobili not playing, but even that might not be enough).

Games against elite squads like the Mavs are best thought of as training at this point.

 

[ezekielbear]

The schedule God's did a number on the month of December for the Kings.

Merry Christmas.

 

[SacTownKid]

When Ron starts playing like "the man" I say give him the ball. "The man" can't shoot 38% for his team and expect to win.

I am as clueless as everyone else in regards to what the hell Muss is doing exactly. I hope and think he is just trying to figure out what players fit in to what he wants to do. I expect some moves being made this season to bring in what he wants.

 

[Entity]

Hmmm interseting that he was happy last year when he averaged less shot attempts than this year. Last season he averaged 15.8 this year he is at 16. Maybe what the real problem is that he isn't making as many as he would like to. Thats on him not the coach or managment. Hey Ron when you can get your fg% over 40% then come back and say your not getting enough touches. He played 26 min last night and had 11 attempts and went to the line 4 times meaning he went for the shot twice but got fouled. so thats 13 attempts in 26 min. thats one attempt every 2 min. At the very most you get 2 offensive possesions in 1 min sometimes less. So he was shooting at least every other possesion for us last night while he was in the game. What more does he want?? All the shots while Bibby, Martin, Miller go 0-0?

 

[SacTownKid]

BTW did anyone else hear Jim Greys report during the game last night about Artest and the Kings.

The Maloofs told him they want to extend Ron before the start of next season. Ron says he wants to stay but Grey said if he signs an extension it can only be for 10% more than he makes now so it probably won't happen.

 

[SacTownKid]

Hmmm interseting that he was happy last year when he averaged less shot attempts than this year. Last season he averaged 15.8 this year he is at 16. Maybe what the real problem is that he isn't making as many as he would like to. Thats on him not the coach or managment. Hey Ron when you can get your fg% over 40% then come back and say your not getting enough touches. He played 26 min last night and had 11 attempts and went to the line 4 times meaning he went for the shot twice but got fouled. so thats 13 attempts in 26 min. thats one attempt every 2 min. At the very most you get 2 offensive possesions in 1 min sometimes less. So he was shooting at least every other possesion for us last night while he was in the game. What more does he want?? All the shots while Bibby, Martin, Miller go 0-0?

Actually his gripe isn't really about shot attempts it's about play calls. I have noticed that quite often his shots are not in the flow of the offense so I can see his point. Getting plays called for him would probably be easier for him because he wouldn't have to create so much.

 

[Honolulu Kings Fan]

Actually his gripe isn't really about shot attempts it's about play calls. I have noticed that quite often his shots are not in the flow of the offense so I can see his point. Getting plays called for him would probably be easier for him because he wouldn't have to create so much.

I'm sort of wondering who is getting the play calls... It seems like we have no plays on offense, just a poor attempt at improv by each player.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't understand what you mean here. I haven't seen a single Kings fan suggest that we get rid of Ron or anything like that, nor have I seen any evidence that anyone in the Kings franchise is favoring Kevin. All I've seen are completely rational pleas for Kevin to take more shots and Ron to take better shots. This has nothing to do with the fanbase, the organization or human nature -- this is all in Ron's head.

!

Uh...well, to be fair you aren't going to see it clearly because you've had one toe dipped in those waters yourself (but only a toe), but its all over the place. And on this board? Absolutely. And overall I should say the trends, the posts, the player fans, the gushing announcers...I've heard this all before some years back. Now no, that doesn't mean that Ron is being discriminated against, but it does mean that if you are Ron and wanting to be the franchise guy (generally a good thing) and all you are hearing is a constant barrage of Kevin this and Kevin that, it opens the doors for this sort of reaction. And yes its on the fans for going wacky wild, and the organization for not having learned and not reaching out to the established star even as the young one is relentlessly hyped, and even more on human nature, because this could be in almost any setting -- aging beauty confronted by nubile newcomer who everybody gawks at, company VP confronted with shining star youngster after his job, etc. Same dynamic, and not even about whether its all right or wrong. Just about how people react.

 

[Packt]

Last year Rick let Ron run a lot of plays and set guys up. I'm pretty sure that's what he's talking about, and not necessarily him wanting more shots.

 

[nbrans]

!

Uh...well, to be fair you aren't going to see it clearly because you've had one toe dipped in those waters yourself (but only a toe), but its all over the place. And on this board? Absolutely. And overall I should say the trends, the posts, the player fans, the gushing announcers...I've heard this all before some years back. Now no, that doesn't mean that Ron is being discriminated against, but it does mean that if you are Ron and wanting to be the franchise guy (generally a good thing) and all you are hearing is a constant barrage of Kevin this and Kevin that, it opens the doors for this sort of reaction. And yes its on the fans for going wacky wild, and the organization for not having learned and not reaching out to the established star even as the young one is relentlessly hyped, and even more on human nature, because this could be in almost any setting -- aging beauty confronted by nubile newcomer who everybody gawks at, company VP confronted with shining star youngster after his job, etc. Same dynamic, and not even about whether its all right or wrong. Just about how people react.

I mean, I guess I can see your point that Ron's pride might be injured if he doesn't think he's considered the franchise anymore. But even if there are whiffs of people getting a little too excited about Kevin, I still think this is largely in Ron's head. I didn't see the Maloofs visiting Zanesville, I don't see Musselman reining in Ron. He's the leading shot taker and undisputed leader of the team. What more does he want? A giant poster of himself outside of Arco? A 75 foot statue? 30 shots a game? People to stop writing and talking about Kevin Martin?

This has nothing to do with the fans and the organization. Ron is the one cataloguing perceived sleights, he is the one comparing himself to Lebron and Kobe, he is the one who thinks his role in the offense is not enough, when in fact it is already too much. The future of the Kings depends on Ron's head -- whether he will play smart offensively, whether he can let his ego coexist with another good player, whether he can take a realistic view of himself and his own capabilities. This franchise hinges on Ron's head. And if my toe is in the water it's because Ron's head is a scary place.

 

[piksi]

I mean, I guess I can see your point that Ron's pride might be injured if he doesn't think he's considered the franchise anymore. But even if there are whiffs of people getting a little too excited about Kevin, I still think this is largely in Ron's head. I didn't see the Maloofs visiting Zanesville, I don't see Musselman reining in Ron. He's the leading shot taker and undisputed leader of the team. What more does he want? A giant poster of himself outside of Arco? A 75 foot statue? 30 shots a game? People to stop writing and talking about Kevin Martin?

This has nothing to do with the fans and the organization. Ron is the one cataloguing perceived sleights, he is the one comparing himself to Lebron and Kobe, he is the one who thinks his role in the offense is not enough, when in fact it is already too much. The future of the Kings depends on Ron's head -- whether he will play smart offensively, whether he can let his ego coexist with another good player, whether he can take a realistic view of himself and his own capabilities. This franchise hinges on Ron's head. And if my toe is in the water it's because Ron's head is a scary place.

I think that he wants everyone to buy his album and wear his clothes

 

[VF21]

I think people are reading waaaaaaaaaaay too much into Ron's comments.

Artest can drive inside, drawing fouls just about every single time. That, in and of itself, should be enough to get him some plays called in his favor. That's what I'm taking from those comments.

As far as calling Kevin "All-Star," it could easily have been kidding at the expense of the national reporter who, for all we know, could be one of those positively gushing about Kevin Martin to the point where it's almost embarassing.

Again, people tend to read way too much into what Artest says.

 

[nbrans]

I think people are reading waaaaaaaaaaay too much into Ron's comments.

Artest can drive inside, drawing fouls just about every single time. That, in and of itself, should be enough to get him some plays called in his favor. That's what I'm taking from those comments.

As far as calling Kevin "All-Star," it could easily have been kidding at the expense of the national reporter who, for all we know, could be one of those positively gushing about Kevin Martin to the point where it's almost embarassing.

Again, people tend to read way too much into what Artest says.

Perhaps, perhaps. But this is also the guy who demanded a trade not even a year ago because he didn't feel like he had a big enough role in the offense.

I mean...

Ron 12/12/05: "I'm so demanding of the ball. It's not my fault," Artest told the Star. "Every time somebody is on me it's a mismatch. It messes up the offense. I like Coach [Carlisle] as a person, but I don't like playing for Coach. I like my team, though."

Ron 12/2/06: "Not to have no plays for the whole second quarter, for the whole second half, that doesn't make me happy at all," said Artest, who scored 15 points on 6-of-11 shooting. "Not from a selfish standpoint. There's got to be a way. We've got to find ways to get me the ball.

"I know that's kind of selfish, but something has to happen. The organization needs to find out which way it wants to go, you know what I'm saying."

 

[VF21]

If you want to place a lot of importance on things that Ron says, I'm not gonna be able to convince you otherwise.

This happens all the time. It happened with Webber, it happened with Peja and it's happening now.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

 

[most_casual_observer]

yep.
We are 8-6, which ain't horrible. Could be 8-9 here in a few games, or if we sneak one out maybe 9-8. Hardly disastrous stuff, but also hardly inspiring. But I thinnk we may be in more delicate shape than that, or rather Muss may be. We're lacking an identity, and Muss seems to be lacking a real plan here on how to get one. And if we start to lose Ron...

I just heard muss on the radio, i think it was his post-game ineterview from last night. He said, loosely quoted, that we got beat in the first quarter, then played them even for the rest of the game. He seemed to be saying that we can play with the Mavs, but just got off to a slow start. Whatever this fella smokes, i need some, because i'm nowhere near as happy as he seems to be.

 

[VF21]

Again, people are mistaking what is said to reporters - both print and other media - for fact.

If a coach has ANY sense at all, he doesn't air the team weaknesses in a post-game interview. That's for the coaching staff and the players to work out, not the arm-chair quarterbacks listening to the radio.

 

[GoGoGadget]

If you want to place a lot of importance on things that Ron says, I'm not gonna be able to convince you otherwise.

This happens all the time. It happened with Webber, it happened with Peja and it's happening now.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Yes. But neither Webber or Peja believed it so sincerely as to make themselves a problem for the organization (well... I think Peja did make himself a problem for the organization, but not necessarily intentionally and not for this reason). Ron has.

Again -- I love what Ron brought to this team and fully supported the trade, but his history didn't disappear the second he put on the purple. He's nutty. He's got a huge ego. He's got a VERY shaky grip on reality. And he's got a penchant for rather dramatic temper tantrums. While I certainly don't think that these comments are the end of the world, there's too much of a past behind them to pretend that they're not possibly the signs of a whole bunch of future ugliness.

 

[VF21]

You're certainly entitled to that opinion. I personally am not going to put much stock in something said right after a game, put through the Amick filter and printed in the Bee. Just not enough in the ol' credibility bank on the publication's part, IMHO.

 

[BigSong]

Problem to me is just a lack of roles.

Nobody knows their role. Everybody sans Kevin Martin thinks they are the #1 offensive option.

this is basically whats the problem offensively. too many wannabe/former all-stars. bibby wants to be an all star, Artest thinks hes one, everyone wants Martin to be one, you might as well throw in Shareef too, everytime he gets the ball you know hes thinking "score,score,score". Right now i feel that if bibby and shareef were moved for more well rounded guys such as watson and przybilla wed be a better team.

 

[rumpled]

Yeah.....eww. Probably not a good sign. Lot of reading between the lines to do here. My guess is the non-start for discipline set it off more than anything on the court. Lebron James don't miss a start for showing up late!

It's tough to break in as a disciplinarian coach, harder than it is for established guys like Sloan or Popovich to do the same thing. If your best players don't want to be good soldiers and follow along, there's gonna be trouble. I can't fault Muss for that because I feel like that's the right way to coach and that players who act like primadonnas are just unprofessional.

I also don't think Artest has shown enough game to even compare himself to the Lebrons and Kobes of the league. Love his work when he's into the game, but if he's ready to move on I'm not going to cry about it.

 

[gunks]

Was the non start for discipline? Pregame they said it was due to his back spasms.

 

[VF21]

?????????????

He was out on the court, shooting, and couldn't move well. He told Musselman he wouldn't be able to play and changed into street clothes.

Good grief, some of you people are reading WAAAAAAAAAAY TOO MUCH into things. Sometimes a bad back is ... a bad back.