Battle For The Backups

SacDoug

G-League
The Kings have an interresting roster moving into the next season. Since we have a new coach, everyone will have a clean slate to prove themselves. It will be interresting to see who ends up at what positions. Here are the contenders that I can surmise so far.


1 - Bibby start
off the bench 1 - Salmons, Garcia, Hart, Price, Douby


2 - Martin start but I don't see this set in stone. Salmons may get the position.
off the bench 2 - Salmons, Garcia, Hart, Price, Douby, Martin (if he doesn't start)


3 - Artest Start
off the bench 3 - Garcia, Martin, Salmons.


4 - Shareef is the favorate but Thomas may earn this spot in the preseason if he shines enough.
off the bench 4 - Thomas, Shareef (if he doesn't start), Potapenko, Williamson


5 - Miller
off the bench 5 - Potapenko, Shareef



I know that more roster moves are possible. Hopefully we get another center. Who do you think will end up where?
 
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Is anyone else as giddy as I am about potentially having Miller/Potopenko as our center tandem?! I mean, imagine the defense! Imagine the athleticism!

:rolleyes:
 
Is anyone else as giddy as I am about potentially having Miller/Potopenko as our center tandem?! I mean, imagine the defense! Imagine the athleticism!

:rolleyes:

you dont have to imagine, just watch any game from last season
 
That's a pretty weak 5 position and also 4 with KT off the bench. You could put Amundson at the 4 off the bench, that guy is a scrappy fighter and should make the full roster. Justin might make it, but might need some more development in the youth league. This 4/5 position isn't going to get us far. We will most likely need to go over the cap to get the guy we need or obviously make a trade hopefully involving moving our expiring contracts/scrubs.

I've said this before, but with us paying Salmons the big bucks, I think Garcia is the odd man out and will be used in a trade hopefully to get rid of KT and his crappy big contract. Garcia gives the flexibility of playing 3 positions, but had been pretty disappointing since his ankle injury. He is young and still could hold a decent amount of interested in a trade.

Please Geoff make something happen at the 4/5, this lineup isn't going to get us far at all. If you spend your $ wisely, it will pay huge dividends in getting us the new arena and a winner on the court, you don't have to go New York style, but talent will cost you. Maloofs: since you are opening your wallet so big for the new arena, why not spend a little over the cap to get us the personnel to make us proud here in Sacto?

It would sure help getting the new arena with having both Artest and KG :-) I really don't think the ballot would fail with people knowing we have KG on our team. We really need someone like KG because he is big and athletic and can play 4 or 5. I much rather have a guy like this than a slow 5, a 4 with enough muscle and versality to play 4/5 is what we need.

If we cannot get KG, how much would it take to get Dwight Howard? This is the guy we really could use seeing that we have a young team core developing here with KMart, Artest at 26, Price/Douby, Salmons at 26, Bibby/Miller under 30. We would probably need to trade Miller and Garcia, scrubs to get Howard, but this guy would be our franchise player with Artest. A very young stud 4/5 that take care of business with Artest finishing up the SF position with authority and the 1/2 being Bibby/Martin and the Solomans rounding out 1-3 as backup. Douby backing up Martin with his sharp shooting and Price backing up Bibby 2nd or 3rd string. I like this team a lot. :-)

More than just a 4 or a 5 backup. I rather pay more for a guy that can play both and good than 1 or the other. Having a versatile guy that can play 2-3 positions is awesome, we have it at the 1-3 positions with Garcia and Salmons, but really need it at the 4/5. SAR filled this role off the bench last season and got good minutes, do you guys think he should do the same this year and let's get the starter 4/5 guy that plays 4 mostly (will be our starter) and SAR will backup 4/5 again with Brad still being our 5. Will this do it? I think with using Potatoe as a stay at home traditional 5, we could get good athletism in a starter 4, but could move over to the 5 as well. It would be a good overlap to what SAR brings to the table. In short, sorry for the novel, we need versatility, the good teams like SA, and Dallas, Miami have it in spades with a great core of able and willing backups to come in for what the team needs...defense...sharp shooting (Barry)...etc. We need this as our backup are young pups with not much veteran leadership to go around. Sam Cassell brings this to the Clippers in spades. Artest brings this to the Kings, but we need more specialized weapons, past their prime, but still very effective in limited minutes off the bench.
Going along with this, Alonzo Mourning would be huge for us as a 4/5 backup, he comes to mind as someone near the end of his playing years obviously, but still brings it.

I can only hope that Geoff and the Maloofs see that we need a big splash to get us over the hump, maybe not a KG splash, but a Dwight Howard splash, or someone young of that caliber splash, or even a over the hill Mourning splash that is an invaluable guy off the bench and plays 4/5. I stress a 4/5 guy, not another slow non athletic 5, we have that in Potatoe right now off the bench and also in Miller as our starter.

Again sorry for the novel...I like to type..thanks for listening. :-)
 
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4 - Shareef is the favorate but Thomas may earn this spot in the preseason if he shines enough.
off the bench 4 - Thomas, Shareef (if he doesn't start), Potapenko, Williamson


5 - Miller
off the bench 5 - Potapenko, Shareef

Yikes!!! There will be a path the size of a freeway to the basket. No resistance whatsoever.
 
The Kings have an interresting roster moving into the next season. Since we have a new coach, everyone will have a clean slate to prove themselves. It will be interresting to see who ends up at what positions. Here are the contenders that I can surmise so far.

I am getting tired of "interresting" rosters. It sucks.


1 - Bibby start
off the bench 1 - Salmons, Garcia, Hart, Price, Douby

no defense combined with no backup PG really. SCARY


2 - Martin start but I don't see this set in stone. Salmons may get the position.
off the bench 2 - Salmons, Garcia, Hart, Price, Douby, Martin (if he doesn't start)

Let's see how Kevin will play when he is little more defended. Still no defense


3 - Artest Start
off the bench 3 - Garcia, Martin, Salmons.

very good provided that Ron stays healthy and under control


4 - Shareef is the favorate but Thomas may earn this spot in the preseason if he shines enough.
off the bench 4 - Thomas, Shareef (if he doesn't start), Potapenko, Williamson

nauseating, horrible, sad, depressing, agrivating, hopeless, and no defense


5 - Miller
off the bench 5 - Potapenko, Shareef

depressing, borderline suicidal, torturing, unbearable, no shot blocking and no defense and no rebounding



I know that more roster moves are possible. Hopefully we get another center. Who do you think will end up where ?

Noone good unless we trade some "important players." This roster with Bibby and Miller and only Ron to balance the defensive alergy - is just not going anywhere. So - best case scenario - deep lottery (not realistic). Worst case scenario - yet another first round exit after 82 games of opponents layup drills and board domination.

God help us
 
could this shore up the 4-5 spot?

This from Hoopshype.com. I'm not a huge Wilcox fan, but he'd be an improvement over the Kings' current backups. Not sure what the Sonics' cap situation is, but maybe a S&T for Bonzi and something else (Hart?) allows the Kings to get Wilcox and remain under the cap. Sorry if this is old news, but I've been out of the country the last week.

http://www.hoopshype.com/rumors.htm


All over but the signing of Wilcox, says source

By Percy Allen
Seattle Times staff reporter
With trade proposals from at least three teams still on the table, the Sonics may be nearing an end to negotiations with Chris Wilcox on a three-year, $24 million proposal from his Washington, D.C.-based agent Jeff Fried.
According to a team source, an agreement is imminent, with at least one of the team's new owners, G. Edward Evans, planning to return to Seattle this week, possibly for the announcement.
However, Fried and Sonics general manager Rick Sund said on Saturday that speculation that the deal is completed is premature.
"Nothing has been finalized," Fried said. "We want to conclude [contract talks] as soon as possible so Chris can get with a team and begin preparing for the season."
Sund declined to discuss the negotiations in detail, but said: "We've had dialogue this week, but nothing has really changed and no agreement has been reached."
He would not comment on the possibility of agreeing to a sign-and-trade deal.
According to an NBA source, Phoenix, Golden State and Sacramento have contacted Seattle to talk about trade scenarios involving Wilcox, a 23-year-old power forward, who averaged 14.1 points and 8.2 rebounds in 29 games with the Sonics last season.
Although Sund has told teams he'd consider parting with Wilcox only if Seattle receives an All-Star forward in return, the trade rumors continue to linger because the Sonics have been unable to reach an agreement with the four-year veteran after four weeks of negotiations.
Fried cancelled plans to meet with Sund last week and was unsure when they would have face-to-face dialogue again. He made one trip to Seattle and talked with Sund on July 3 when discussions fell apart after his five-year, $62 million offer resulted in a five-year, $40 million counterproposal from the Sonics.
At that time, it seemed certain that Wilcox would sign a one-year tender worth $3.6 million. However, the two sides appeared to have broken the impasse when they focused on a three-year deal.
All that remains is determining the value of the contract. In a short-term contract, the Sonics believe Wilcox is worth about $7 million per year, while Fried favors an $8 million deal.
"If Chris doesn't turn out to be a star player, they cut their risk and move on," Fried said. "But if Chris is a superstar like we believe he will be, then he'll be 26 and in position to get an enhanced contract."
Wilcox is working out in Houston and is prepared to immediately fly to Seattle, Fried said.

EDIT: This particular article has been posted and is being discussed here: http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14449
 
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Nice novel, Troy, it was well thought out.

My one addition would be this. Although many here believe that Petrie is going to make sure Bonzi "pays" for his not signing (by not getting involved in a S&T deal), Bonzi in a S&T remains the best cornerstone/bargaining chip in perhaps a multi-player trade to get that big guy that everybody covets. I mean, Bonzi's gone anyway, and this is business, so I really don't see Geoff having some emotional response to the failed Bonzi signing. He is shrewd and will try to get something out of nothing.

Naturally, as soon as he saw that it wasn't going to work for Bonzi with the Kings a couple weeks ago, he had to explore S&T avenues to get us that big (within the spending boundaries and desires of the Maloofs). Perhaps the S&T "exploration" is over, perhaps not. As each new FA gets signed, the landscape changes for every team trying to make moves this off-season. It's dynamic, so for me, I am still hopeful that: 1) Geoff can pull off something, packaging Bonzi with one or more players, to get that RARE athletic big guy that can help us, and 2) the Maloofs ALLOW Geoff to exceed the lux tax level in a S&T deal to get a desparately needed piece of the puzzle filled in.

I just don't think KT and Garcia or somebody else that is typically considered a middling to throw-away Kings player (Pot, Hart, etc) is going to get us back very much. Nobody wants Kenny's contract, so there needs to be another player, greater than Garcia's stature, to sweeten the pot to get a GM to bite.

I just hope it's not KMart, now that Salmons is on board, because Kevin has shown tremendous potential now, and I could see league GMs trying to craft a deal to take Martin and our undesirable KT contract to do a big guy deal, just to get Martin. My opinion, though, is that, after hearing how Muss wants to play ball, ie, "we will not let the ball hit the floor after an opposing shot falls through and push the tempo", Kevin is the absolute perfect player (maybe already one of the best in the league) to play that kind of game.

Keeping my fingers crossed that Geoff can still get us a good piece of tall timber in a Bonzi S&T...
 
I agree, inorder to get someone good, you will probably have to give up somebody good, but you never know...just like beauty is in the eye of the beholder....some lesser players on one team are obviously more coveted on other teams due to their direction and/or players they already have to create the synergy they are after. I love KMart and hope he has a great season. I sure like Howard though on the Magic and he is a player of now and of the future. Would be the guy we always wanted at the 4/5 so you never know. Would you guys trade Bibby or Miller for him with some other pieces? I think Miller plus Garcia, Hart etc might net us Howard which would be fine with me. This guys is the strong athletic beast that doesn't come around all the often. He looks to be another KG, both in body and athletism. A truely awesome combination of size and ability. :)
 
I agree, inorder to get someone good, you will probably have to give up somebody good, but you never know...just like beauty is in the eye of the beholder....some lesser players on one team are obviously more coveted on other teams due to their direction and/or players they already have to create the synergy they are after. I love KMart and hope he has a great season. I sure like Howard though on the Magic and he is a player of now and of the future. Would be the guy we always wanted at the 4/5 so you never know. Would you guys trade Bibby or Miller for him with some other pieces? I think Miller plus Garcia, Hart etc might net us Howard which would be fine with me. This guys is the strong athletic beast that doesn't come around all the often. He looks to be another KG, both in body and athletism. A truely awesome combination of size and ability. :)


No offense intended, but there is no way that the Magic are that stupid. Howard is an animal! I would give up Bibby and Miller (and more) for that kid. He is the future. He is a franchise player. I don't think the Magic would even listen to any trades involving him. We could offer Artest, Bibby and Miller and I would think that they would reject it. He is one of my favourite players and he will be top 5 in a few years IMO.
 
No offense intended, but there is no way that the Magic are that stupid. Howard is an animal! I would give up Bibby and Miller (and more) for that kid. He is the future. He is a franchise player. I don't think the Magic would even listen to any trades involving him. We could offer Artest, Bibby and Miller and I would think that they would reject it. He is one of my favourite players and he will be top 5 in a few years IMO.

I would take bibby miller and artest for howard....but i get what your getting at. Howard will be a future star no doubt about it.
 
A trade for Willcox sounds good almost too good to be true but it is obvious to ANYONE that the one sport the Kings HAVE to improve at is the 4. It's hard to see what offer the Kings can make that Seatle would take. Reef and an expiring contract or two? Best chance would be a 3 way trade that lands Sactamento Willcox and an exemption whill singing Bonzi and sending either Reef or KT out. At anyrate it seems a long shot and I fear we may start the season with the Reef KT tandem intact. I hope I am wrong.
 
According to Percy Allen of the Seattle Times, the Sacramento Kings were one of the teams who contacted the Seattle Supersonics about the availability of power forward Chris Wilcox.

At any rate, though, the following is a trade proposal involving the Kings and Wilcox:

From Phoenix*
2009 Second-Round Draft Pick (Via Golden State)

From Sacramento
PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim ($5,400,000)
PG Ronnie Price ($664,209)

From Seattle
PF Chris Wilcox (BYC: $3,625,000)
PF Noel Felix ($664,209)

To Phoenix
PF Noel Felix ($664,209)
PG Ronnie Price ($664,209)

To Sacramento
PF Chris Wilcox ($7,250,000)

To Seattle
PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim ($5,400,000)
2009 Second-Round Draft Pick (Via Golden State Through Phoenix)

*The Phoenix Suns have a $1,803,600 trade exception.

don't have link to source, as someone from another board (seattle fan) posted it like that
 
My one addition would be this. Although many here believe that Petrie is going to make sure Bonzi "pays" for his not signing (by not getting involved in a S&T deal), Bonzi in a S&T remains the best cornerstone/bargaining chip in perhaps a multi-player trade to get that big guy that everybody covets. I mean, Bonzi's gone anyway, and this is business, so I really don't see Geoff having some emotional response to the failed Bonzi signing. He is shrewd and will try to get something out of nothing.

And that's where we see the whole thing differently.

Petrie did try to work something out. When it became apparent it wasn't going to happen, Petrie moved on.

IF there had been a chance for a legitimate sign-and-trade to be made, it would have been done. I'm pretty sure Petrie thoroughly explored those avenues before coming to the conclusion it just wasn't going to happen.

Bonzi is gone. And that's what I firmly believe some people around here have to accept. He's gone. His value to the Kings is gone. I'm not particularly happy that we weren't able to get something for him, but I really don't see Petrie as the type to continue to flagellate the deceased equine.

Bonzi hasn't been approached with any legitimate offers or it would have been leaked by someone by now. If anything, he's probably going to sign for much less than he hoped for - maybe for a short-term - and hope to be able to increase his market value at the end of the season.

If some miracle happens, if someone pulls a rabbit out of a hat and we end up doing a sign-and-trade at this point, it will have to be of such magnitude that it will make the Peja for Artest deal look like an everyday occurence. And I just don't see it happening.

EDIT: Of course, this is all strictly IMO only and we could all be pleasantly surprised by some fantastic announcement. I'm just not holding my breath. :p
 
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I think Eddie Griffin would be a great backup if we could get him, he averaged 2.1 blocks per game last year in limited minutes
 
Ooookay...

There's already a thread about Eddie Griffin, which I think you started.

:p
 
I am getting tired of "interresting" rosters. It sucks.




no defense combined with no backup PG really. SCARY




Let's see how Kevin will play when he is little more defended. Still no defense




very good provided that Ron stays healthy and under control




nauseating, horrible, sad, depressing, agrivating, hopeless, and no defense




depressing, borderline suicidal, torturing, unbearable, no shot blocking and no defense and no rebounding





Noone good unless we trade some "important players." This roster with Bibby and Miller and only Ron to balance the defensive alergy - is just not going anywhere. So - best case scenario - deep lottery (not realistic). Worst case scenario - yet another first round exit after 82 games of opponents layup drills and board domination.

God help us

Martin actually has above average defense. Salmons can defend too. Plus his Natural position is PG.

The backcourt is not an issue imo
 
I agree with Gary on the PG spot. It is far from a problem to me. We have more than enough Ball handlers to fill at point while bibby sits for what??? maybe 8 to 10 min.
 
I am comparing him to all the other SGs out there... I truely think that he is an above avg defender.. You sure you are watching the same Martin? :p

Ok, I will just say at the moment he is solid. He has quick hands, and keeps his man in front of him. He does have the chance (esp under Artest) at becoming a great defender.
 
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I don't think he's above average on defense YET, but I think he's got the potential. And that should be more than enough for a Kings fan right now...

And you KNOW I've been watching him.

:p
 
I don't think he's above average on defense YET, but I think he's got the potential. And that should be more than enough for a Kings fan right now...

And you KNOW I've been watching him.

:p
What do you mean? Where have you watched him? I went to some of the Capitol Christian games (summer league) and he was throwing down some sick dunks. However, he will never be able to be a great defender until he puts more muscle on. Someone like Tayshaun Prince, who is just as skinny as Martin, is a great defender because of his height, something Kevin doesnt have the luxury of.

Bruce Bowen is a hell of a defender and he isnt that built, so who knows...
 
He's on and off. Could be a good defender if he wants to I think. But the effort and focus is erratic and he gets burned on it sometimes. Sometimes he'll look to be really competing, and then sometimes..dunno, just asleep at the wheel.

As mentioned it would be nice if he could at least get a little more disruptive and ball-hawky. Bonzi averaged nearly two steals a game last year as a starter, Kevin less than one in more minutes. Yet there's no doubt who's the quicker player.
 
Has there ever been a good defensive 2 guard who is 190 lbs?

I can't think of anyone. There have been plenty of good PG's at that weight (Payton, Kidd), but not 2 guards.

The reason I pose that question is because it is impossible for someone to be a good defender at that weight guarding the best players in the League (LeBron, Kobe, Wade, TMac, Manu) and giving up 25+ pounds.
 
Has there ever been a good defensive 2 guard who is 190 lbs?

I can't think of anyone. There have been plenty of good PG's at that weight (Payton, Kidd), but not 2 guards.

The reason I pose that question is because it is impossible for someone to be a good defender at that weight guarding the best players in the League (LeBron, Kobe, Wade, TMac, Manu) and giving up 25+ pounds.

I'm not sure how much Doug Christie weighed off the top of my head, but he's not any bigger than K-Mart.
 
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