Are we overlooking Shump as our SF?

jcassio

jcassio

Starter
#1
#1
We continue to debate Jackson vs Williams, and everyone seems to recognize that we need a starting quality SF, like Otto Porter Jr. Now there's even an article on another Kings site that argues we should consider acquiring Trevor Ariza for that role. I even started a thread a while back about whether we should look at Justise Winslow or Patrick McCaw.

But I'm not so sure that any of these guys would be measurably better than our own Iman Shumpert. Yes, we have to worry about his reliability. But that's true for half the players in the league. Yes, he's a bit undersized against some of the premiere SFs in the league. But let's consider the pro's:
He's a great teammate
He's a strong defender
He's unselfish
He's decent at hitting his 3's (almost 40%)
He's averaging 1.7 steals per 36 min

I thnk we may be overlooking the obvious in our quest to find another Peja or Ron-Ron.

Moderators: Please don't move this to the Personnel Moves forum as I'm not proposing a trade!
 
R

regularkingsfan

G-League
#3
#3
Not a small forward. A shooting guard really.

Horrible rebounder. 6.4% rebound rate from basketball-reference. That rate is decent for a point guard, pathetic for a small forward. Possibly the biggest culprit why the team gets out-rebounded.

https://on.nba.com/2BRW1zB
Very bad defender inside of 10ft.

I like his personality but I think he's gone after this season, if not as soon as the trade deadline.
 
Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#5
#5
Moderately, yes.

If you can get another good SF option, and only Porter comes to mind, than you do it.

All the other mentions like Ariza etc aren’t needed with Shump/Williams/Jackson
 
J

JCTNKINGFAN

Bench
#6
#6
I was just thinking along the same lines that maybe Shump along with the backup combination of JJ and for the time being, Williams may be at least adequate at the 3 for this season.

When Shump goes off offensively like he has on occasion, you can see just how good this team can be. Shump brings it defensively every night, but unfortunately his offense is inconsistent.

JJ had been bashed unmercifully by some, but he has been on an upward trend as of late. If he can continue that trend maybe he can fill in some of the offensive inconsistencies of Shump while the team still reaps the benefits of Shump’s defensive prowess.

The problem with Williams is he is a two-way player and can’t be counted on for the whole season. He brings a lot of energy and does some good things but he also plays out of control at times.

This combination is not a permanent solution, but I would rather see it play out for the season rather than make some move that costs the Kings assets and cap space and doesn’t prove in the final analysis to be an upgrade.
 
Ozymandias

Ozymandias

All-Star
#8
#8
The question really is; Is a Swingman suitable as a starting SF? Cuz Shumpert is suitable as a starting swingman here next to our spacing OBVIOUSLY....

When you have a young team the MORALE boost a player like shumpert provides is incalculable and to me u can see it on/off the eye test...

When Shump is on his game this team looks like it can beat anyone... There's no doubt in my mind this team is at it's most confidence when Shumpert is talking crap and backing it up.

He's shooting 40% from 3 on 5 attempts per game....

The Swingman at the 3, has been and will be, a viable look for long time.. A player with a skillset like Bogdan's holds major weight in the equation too.... The departure of Kahwi and Hayward helps. There was a Knicks team that had skinny 6'5" Latrell Spreewell at SF and they were the 8th seed and got to the finals, that team had crazy fight to it and completely blindsided expectations it took Tim Duncan, David Robinson and a baseline jumper from Avery Johnson to beat them!....

In short; Fast-Forward to Today's NBA, you can throw all the $$$ (or draft picks) at the SF position you want, but in the west you'll run into matchups like Durant, LeBron and George who are basically gonna do whatever the hell their gonna do vs anyone. Shump can guard these guys as well as most anyone you can pay on the open market, Shump holds dominion on the low ground vs taller opponents and is waiting to pounce on any sloppy or telegraphed dribble.

For me in basketball there's too much emphasis on the starting 5, my concern is really a rotation of 7 or 8 and he's easily earning his keep.
 
T

The Hammer

All-Star
#9
#9
The good thing about our SF position, Shump included, is that we can platoon the SF position until a great long term option emerges. Two young guys fighting for it under the guidance of a hard nosed defender type who by all accounts is social butterfly, is about the best you could ask for at this stage, given our difficulty in signing top level FAs. Shump was an excellent pick up, but I wanna see Williams and Jackson go for it over the next year or two. That said, if a trade for Otto Porter opens up without us giving up any of our young guys... INCLUDING WCS... I'd pull the trigger. But not in desperate attempt to get talent, as a favor to a salary burdened team. I'd include any or all (would hurt most giving up Williams as I see him having the highest ceiling) to get Porter. I'd hate to give up on Williams this early though. Kid just has the feel of a killer. A baby Shump that's taller, faster, and can potentially be as good a defender.

What our SF spot needs most is time.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#10
#10
Been stunned at his turnaround this season as he's been flat our washed like the last 3 years of his career. Bad on defense, complete nothing on offense. But it's starting to look like that was more due to health rather than him just not being good anymore.

I don't think he's a starter on a good playoff team though. Not a knock on him, but he doesn't bring enough on the offensive end and we don't have the offensive horses like a Golden State or Houston to carry a low impact offensive player (even if he continues to hit his 3s). He's perfectly suited for that 8th man role off the bench getting 18-22 MPG and flexing in at 3 positions depending where we need the defensive push. With how much money we have to spend this summer, I'd be disappointed if we don't bring him back.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#11
#11
You keep Shump on the grounds of his leadership alone.

While Garrett Temple was a great leader for our young guys, Shump has more than filled his role in the rotation and installed a new swagger in the franchise that has been missing since Ron Ron was forgetting to feed his dogs over a decade ago. Shump's only 28 years old, he's seen a lot in his time in the league, and by almost all accounts has been a big brother/mentor to our collection of young guys.

90% of Shump's contribution to this team isn't going to show up in the stat sheets but he's arguably become the fourth most important player on the team behind our three headed guard monster.

He doesn't need to start past this season but nothing about how he's played this year says "Take this man out of our rotation."
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#12
#12
The_Jamal said:
Been stunned at his turnaround this season as he's been flat our washed like the last 3 years of his career. Bad on defense, complete nothing on offense. But it's starting to look like that was more due to health rather than him just not being good anymore.

I don't think he's a starter on a good playoff team though. He's perfectly suited for that 8th man role off the bench getting 18-22 MPG and flexing in at 3 positions depending where we need the defensive push. With how much money we have to spend this summer, I'd be disappointed if we don't bring him back.
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This. For the longest time, Kings fans have been complaining about a lack of glue guys on our team. Shump is the ultimate glue guy. Considering how far below the cap we are and how unlikely we are to be signing a max money guy in the offseason, there is absolutely no good reason to not offer him a contract going forward.
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#13
#13
Shump is not a small forward, that is where the issue lies. He is a serviceable 3 & D guard though, who I wouldn't mind retaining for the right price. He has managed to stay healthy for the first time since I can remember in his career.
 
T

The Hammer

All-Star
#15
#15
Shump also seems like the kind of guy that's custom built to play an off-the-bench leadership type of role on a playoff team full of youngsters. Let's not forget he has championship experience. It's almost like Vlade signed him with a purpose, rather than the typical grab bag FAs we used to end up with.
 
N

Nokidding

Bench
#16
#16
The_Jamal said:
Been stunned at his turnaround this season as he's been flat our washed like the last 3 years of his career. Bad on defense, complete nothing on offense. But it's starting to look like that was more due to health rather than him just not being good anymore.

I don't think he's a starter on a good playoff team though. Not a knock on him, but he doesn't bring enough on the offensive end and we don't have the offensive horses like a Golden State or Houston to carry a low impact offensive player (even if he continues to hit his 3s). He's perfectly suited for that 8th man role off the bench getting 18-22 MPG and flexing in at 3 positions depending where we need the defensive push. With how much money we have to spend this summer, I'd be disappointed if we don't bring him back.
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He's sort of filled the role we (i think it was you who was on the Marcus Smart train with me and others) hoped Smart (if we signed him) would bring to the Kings although I don't think he's quiet the defender Smart is he's certainly been a better shooter
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#17
#17
I saw the Ariza article. F that. Shump is fine for the time being but he's not our long term answer.

He's like Vernon Maxwell in Y1 of the Glory Years. Maybe we can get 2-3 seasons out of him instead of 1, but he's not the answer.
 
jcassio

jcassio

Starter
#18
#18
pdxKingsFan said:
I saw the Ariza article. F that. Shump is fine for the time being but he's not our long term answer.

He's like Vernon Maxwell in Y1 of the Glory Years. Maybe we can get 2-3 seasons out of him instead of 1, but he's not the answer.
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He’s like Vernon Maxwell? I get your point, but you’ll have to find a better analogy. Maxwell was a placeholder. And nuts. Shump is not the silver bullet, but he’s more than Maxwell.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#20
#20
jcassio said:
He’s like Vernon Maxwell? I get your point, but you’ll have to find a better analogy. Maxwell was a placeholder. And nuts. Shump is not the silver bullet, but he’s more than Maxwell.
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Maxwell was a non-centerpiece vet who made contributions that were huge but underappreciated in the annals of time.

Shump will likely be the same. Sets the table but won't be joining us for dinner.
 
T

The Hammer

All-Star
#21
#21
pdxKingsFan said:
I saw the Ariza article. F that. Shump is fine for the time being but he's not our long term answer.

He's like Vernon Maxwell in Y1 of the Glory Years. Maybe we can get 2-3 seasons out of him instead of 1, but he's not the answer.
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Agree. Ariza is a high end role player. I don't want to replace Shump, or our young SFs, the platoon approach for now, for anything but a star or young stud/draft pick. We have enough time to let the JJ/Williams experiment play out. The beauty of Shump is that he's exactly perfect for right now, the mistake would be to think he's our solution, or that we need to take a flyer on another mid-high level role player.
 
jcassio

jcassio

Starter
#23
#23
pdxKingsFan said:
Maxwell was a non-centerpiece vet who made contributions that were huge but underappreciated in the annals of time.

Shump will likely be the same. Sets the table but won't be joining us for dinner.
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Sorry, but I’m calling BS. Maxwell made no “huge” contribution as you claim in his one year as a King. He played 20 min/game and shot 39%. He had anger issues that led to him getting in all kinds of trouble - eventually getting arrested for kidnapping and beating a woman. Romanticize him if you must, but he’s a pathetic excuse for a man and contributed little as a basketball player in his 30’s.
 
P

ppine

Starter
#24
#24
The bar for SF play on this team has been really low for a long time. I think Shumpert has a lot to do with the Kings' success. He plays defense and has some killer instinct. He is a streaky scorer. His attitude definitely rubs off on the impressionable young guys. Maybe with two guys playing behind him he can limit his minutes and stay healthy.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#26
#26
jcassio said:
Sorry, but I’m calling BS. Maxwell made no “huge” contribution as you claim in his one year as a King. He played 20 min/game and shot 39%. He had anger issues that led to him getting in all kinds of trouble - eventually getting arrested for kidnapping and beating a woman. Romanticize him if you must, but he’s a pathetic excuse for a man and contributed little as a basketball player in his 30’s.
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I believe he was well behaved as a King and started the narrative that Adelman could reclaim anyone. Which helped us rehab our rep.

Not really about him as a person with 20 years of hindsight and evolved social mores or the rest of his tenure in the league. He was a fan favorite during his brief time here and a big part of changing the culture.
 
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#28
#28
pdxKingsFan said:
I saw the Ariza article. F that. Shump is fine for the time being but he's not our long term answer.

He's like Vernon Maxwell in Y1 of the Glory Years. Maybe we can get 2-3 seasons out of him instead of 1, but he's not the answer.
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I think Shump is doing a good job. We don't need all 5 players to average 20ppg. Sometimes when you get all these scorers on one team it screws up the chemistry. So as long as Shump can hit open shots and defend then he's a great asset. Kind of like Bowen on The Spurs some years ago. He's not big enough though imo to play SFfull time. Seems a lot of teams are putting stretch 4s in both the 3 and 4 positions.
 
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