Anyone upset they could have had Knight?

The Kings got the guy they wanted and a guy I liked the more I looked at him. Knight was the opposite. The more I looked, the less I liked. Time will tell, but I tend to agree with the pick.
 
BMiller52 said:
LOL at the post saying that Geoff wanted Knight. In one of Jerry Reynolds youtube videos or whatever he supposedly said that they couldnt learn too much about Knight because he didnt work out against anyone and they directly traded back to 10 where they knew they had no shot at Knight. Jimmer was Geoff's guy all along and people only fell in love with Knight because he is a "name guy" and they like to criticize. Neither Jimmer or Knight played any defense last year, and Jimmer had to carry his team. Jimmer will be a better fit than Knight because he's a better shooter and more experienced player, and he tested out as one of the most athletic players at the combine so it's not like he wont be able to learn to play D.
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See but this is BS, and I hear this from our front office every year. Brandon Knight has been a high profile prospect at least since his freshman year of high school. He won player of the year for two straight years for god's sake. To say that they don't know enough about him because of one workout? Come on. I know they watched some games over the course of his career. Petrie has consistently overvalued the significance of the team workout in the draft process. There's not a lot you can learn about any of these guys by having them do some drills in a gym for a couple hours, whether it's against other prospects or not. Knight being a "name guy" had nothing to do with him being projected as the third best player. You get the name recognition by being really really good.
 
I'm upset that they could have gotten Walker, but I'm really upset that they just traded for some huge *** contract for absolutely no reason at all.
 
Some might but I'm not. Very pleased with this move upward. I'm sorry it doesn't seem to live up to everyone's expections.
 
hrdboild said:
See but this is BS, and I hear this from our front office every year. Brandon Knight has been a high profile prospect at least since his freshman year of high school. He won player of the year for two straight years for god's sake. To say that they don't know enough about him because of one workout? Come on. I know they watched some games over the course of his career. Petrie has consistently overvalued the significance of the team workout in the draft process. There's not a lot you can learn about any of these guys by having them do some drills in a gym for a couple hours, whether it's against other prospects or not. Knight being a "name guy" had nothing to do with him being projected as the third best player. You get the name recognition by being really really good.
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I think they know him. They just didn't like him as much as you did. And I think you are overstating the problems with the front office drafting process. Seems to have done pretty good outside of the Douby pick. Even that one is not a red flag.
 
hrdboild said:
See but this is BS, and I hear this from our front office every year. Brandon Knight has been a high profile prospect at least since his freshman year of high school. He won player of the year for two straight years for god's sake. To say that they don't know enough about him because of one workout? Come on. I know they watched some games over the course of his career. Petrie has consistently overvalued the significance of the team workout in the draft process. There's not a lot you can learn about any of these guys by having them do some drills in a gym for a couple hours, whether it's against other prospects or not. Knight being a "name guy" had nothing to do with him being projected as the third best player. You get the name recognition by being really really good.
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Here's why also I don't buy that Petrie loved Knight. Tristan Thompson went #4 and was never projected higher than #7 anywhere. I think it is very likely we could have sent Casspi and #7 to the Cavs for #4 since they could have gotten TT there. I just think they could have gotten Knight if they really wanted him. And there is always a chance he slips and Petrie made the move down anyway. I doubt he does that if he loves Knight. Pretty sure Knight was below Jimmer on Petrie's board. We'll see if he is right.
 
Just as a sidenote mini-rant. I think people put WAY too much faith in these mock drafts. Ever notice how useless they are right up until hours before the draft? Which means that they constantly change based upon rumors that get floated about. Most of which are started by sources with agendas. Drafting is also not such an exact science otherwise no team would ever make a mistake. In the end it comes down to beauty in the eye of the beholder. Making absolute statements about picks the day after a draft that are anything but absolute, is just nonsense.

Even many years later it's still open to debate. For example I'm sure you would get strong arguments on all sides whether Jason Williams was the right pick in '98 or they should have gone with Nowitzki or Pierce.
 
Vlade4GM said:
It is when when it's for 3+ more years and for a 32 year old player who is not that good. Huge is a relative term in this case.
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It's not as bad as people are making it out to be. Signing a player like Salmons in free agency wouldn't be much cheaper than what his current contact is. He may be overpaid by a million or two a year, or even three but this is not a Rashard Lewis caliber franchise crippling contract. And if Salmons works out next year and the team is winning games, people will forget all about his contract and how upset they were over this trade.
 
RookieOfTheDay said:
It's not as bad as people are making it out to be. Signing a player like Salmons in free agency wouldn't be much cheaper than what his current contact is. He may be overpaid by a million or two a year, or even three but this is not a Rashard Lewis caliber franchise crippling contract. And if Salmons works out next year and the team is winning games, people will forget all about his contract and how upset they were over this trade.
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Signing Salmons in free agency for that contract would have been almost as stupid as the trade was, regardless of what you think his market value would have been.
 
Vlade4GM said:
Signing Salmons in free agency for that contract would have been almost as stupid as the trade was, regardless of what you think his market value would have been.
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How is the trade stupider than a FA signing would have been? At least with the trade you moved one contract to make room for another.
 
sidney said:
Here's why also I don't buy that Petrie loved Knight. Tristan Thompson went #4 and was never projected higher than #7 anywhere. I think it is very likely we could have sent Casspi and #7 to the Cavs for #4 since they could have gotten TT there. I just think they could have gotten Knight if they really wanted him. And there is always a chance he slips and Petrie made the move down anyway. I doubt he does that if he loves Knight. Pretty sure Knight was below Jimmer on Petrie's board. We'll see if he is right.
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Thompson was projected at the fourth pick by at least one analyst. I saw that two weeks before the draft. We knew Cleveland liked him. Apparently they couldn't find a trade they liked so they just took the guy they wanted with their pick. I had Thompson ranked fifth myself with only Knight above him left on the board and they already picked a PG in Irving so it was also the smart pick I think. Not the bombshell some people think it was.

But I agree with you that the Kings wanted Jimmer more than Knight. I'm not clear if that was a Petrie decision or a Maloof decision though. In either case I think the (mistaken) assumption that we needed to get better right away ("We will never be in the lottery again") instead of drafting the player with the most long-term potential played a big role in the decision. Jimmer will make this team better next season than Brandon Knight would have. But in 5 years? Knight will probably be a better NBA player I think (and most scouts agree on that). With our two best players being 20 and 21 years old right now, that long-term potential makes Knight a slam dunk pick to me.
 
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RookieOfTheDay said:
How is the trade stupider than a FA signing would have been? At least with the trade you moved one contract to make room for another.
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Because they took it on for the privilege of moving down 3 spots in the draft. I suppose moving Beno's contract does make it better financially than if we signed him outright, but it's still stupid either way, so I don't see the point in splitting hairs here.
 
hrdboild said:
Thompson was projected at the fourth pick by at least one analyst. I saw that two weeks before the draft. We knew Cleveland liked him. Apparently they couldn't find a trade they liked so they just took the guy they wanted with their pick. I had Thompson ranked fifth myself with only Knight above him left on the board and they already picked a PG in Irving so it was also the smart pick I think. Not the bombshell some people think it was.

But I agree with you that the Kings wanted Jimmer more than Knight. I'm not clear if that was a Petrie decision or a Maloof decision though. In either case I think the (mistaken) assumption that we needed to get better right away ("We will never be in the lottery again") instead of drafting the player with the most long-term potential played a big role in the decision. Jimmer will make this team better next season than Brandon Knight would have. But in 5 years? Knight will probably be a better NBA player I think (and most scouts agree on that). With our two best players being 20 and 21 years old right now, that long-term potential makes Knight a slam dunk pick to me.
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Even if that's true, The Kings are in no position to be thinking about five years down the road. They have to get better ASAP. The future of the franchise in Sacramento could depend on it.
 
Vlade4GM said:
Because they took it on for the privilege of moving down 3 spots in the draft. I suppose moving Beno's contract does make it better financially than if we signed him outright, but it's still stupid either way, so I don't see the point in splitting hairs here.
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So what? People focus too much on draft position. From the look of it, The Kings liked Jimmer and were fairly certain he'd be there at 10. It really doesn't matter if the picked him at 5, 10, or 15 if that's who they wanted.
 
RookieOfTheDay said:
So what? People focus too much on draft position. From the look of it, The Kings liked Jimmer and were fairly certain he'd be there at 10. It really doesn't matter if the picked him at 5, 10, or 15 if that's who they wanted.
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It matters when they missed out on Walker because of it. I'm not just complaining about a number here.
 
Vlade4GM said:
It matters when they missed out on Walker because of it. I'm not just complaining about a number here.
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Again there is no evidence we were going to take Walker, even if he had been there at #10. Fns has their favorites. So did Petrie. And I think he got his guy. Now whether his guy is the best guy or not we will have to see, but history suggests its not a high percentage thing to go against Geoff's draft instincts. Of course on the flipside I think if he's got an Achilles drafting a pure shooter making him all misty eyed about his own shooting, defenseless past, would be the way to cloud his vision.
 
RookieOfTheDay said:
Even if that's true, The Kings are in no position to be thinking about five years down the road. They have to get better ASAP. The future of the franchise in Sacramento could depend on it.
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Yes and even if that's true, it's not an argument that the Kings made the best basketball related decision here. But I don't think it matters much if the Kings sell out every game next year. No arena deal means the team is gone regardless.
 
We got what we wanted. If someone thinks they know more basketball than our FO, that's their arrogance. Also, Knight or his agent shot themselves in the foot by the cowardice of not competing against their peers in the pre-draft workouts. Someone's character is lacking.
 
bajaden said:
You and I normally agree, but your dead wrong on a few things. Salmons is an excellent passer, and he was AI's setup man at Philly before he came to the Kings. For one year, he might have been the best player on the Kings. Everyone only remembers his final year and half here, when our talent base was deteriorating. Salmons has always been a very good defender. And although he did dominate the ball his last season here, he also shot over 40% from behind the 3 pt line.

That team was made up of Martin, Artest, and Salmons. Oh yeah, we had a less than interested Miller still there, and the great Mikki Moore. A rookie JT, and a Spencer Hawes. So yes, Salmons became a scorer, because he needed to be.

As for our capspace, I'm not sure what your talking about. We still have it. The trade hardly affected it. The trade doesn't stop us form going out and signing another SF if there's a good one to be had. I'm really having a hard time understanding exactly what you mean.
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Baja, we may disagree, but saying I'm dead wrong is a leap. How can you say I'm dead wrong about Salmons not being a good passer, or won't pass? You say he's excellent, yet he has a career ast average of 2.5 apg, and an ast/to ratio of 1.71. My eyes tell me he's not a great passer, and his numbers back that up.

He didn't just dominate the ball here. His playing style is to dominate the ball. He pounds the ball, and is better with the ball in his hands then he is playing off the ball. How can I be dead wrong about something which is subjective, and many have witnessed? The pounding the ball complaints have followed him from Philly, to Sac, to Chi, to Mil. I'm not the only one who see's it.

You don't think he signing affects our ability to use cap space. I do. Of course the cap space is still there. But we no longer have a gaping hole at sf, we have Salmons and his contract, along with 4 other sf's. You think that's attractive for an AK or Prince? You don't think that would have any bearing on them coming here? Of course we could sign AK, but then we have Salmons contract coming off the bench? You may like that, but I don't.

Judging by your response to me, having Omri/Donte/Cisco/Honeycutt/Salmons at sf is not a deterent in any way for AK or Prince or Battier to sign with us, and you'd be more than comfortable with Salmons contract coming off the bench. I disagree. It's either that, or you're comfortable with Salmons being our major upgrade at sf for the next 3 years. I'm not.
 
Bricklayer said:
Again there is no evidence we were going to take Walker, even if he had been there at #10. Fns has their favorites. So did Petrie. And I think he got his guy. Now whether his guy is the best guy or not we will have to see, but history suggests its not a high percentage thing to go against Geoff's draft instincts. Of course on the flipside I think if he's got an Achilles drafting a pure shooter making him all misty eyed about his own shooting, defenseless past, would be the way to cloud his vision.
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Ha! So true. But he DID trade for Salmons and drafted JT and Cuz. In any case, yes, he tends to go for shooters but also he seems to be a good judge of shooters. Peja who?
 
Bricklayer said:
Again there is no evidence we were going to take Walker, even if he had been there at #10. Fns has their favorites. So did Petrie. And I think he got his guy. Now whether his guy is the best guy or not we will have to see, but history suggests its not a high percentage thing to go against Geoff's draft instincts. Of course on the flipside I think if he's got an Achilles drafting a pure shooter making him all misty eyed about his own shooting, defenseless past, would be the way to cloud his vision.
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Assuming Fredette was even his guy, I still think he made the wrong move. Walker is the better PG, and Fredette is going to have to play PG because Tyreke can't.
 
Bricklayer said:
Again there is no evidence we were going to take Walker, even if he had been there at #10. Fns has their favorites. So did Petrie. And I think he got his guy. Now whether his guy is the best guy or not we will have to see, but history suggests its not a high percentage thing to go against Geoff's draft instincts. Of course on the flipside I think if he's got an Achilles drafting a pure shooter making him all misty eyed about his own shooting, defenseless past, would be the way to cloud his vision.
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Yeah but this is a team without enough shooters in the first place, whose 2 best players operate in the paint and need a reliable shooter on the perimeter. Jimmer is a great fit for the Kings. I'm kinda surprised at all the whining about Knight and Walker. They are good players but it's not like they are sure things either.
 
Bricklayer said:
Again there is no evidence we were going to take Walker, even if he had been there at #10. Fns has their favorites. So did Petrie. And I think he got his guy. Now whether his guy is the best guy or not we will have to see, but history suggests its not a high percentage thing to go against Geoff's draft instincts. Of course on the flipside I think if he's got an Achilles drafting a pure shooter making him all misty eyed about his own shooting, defenseless past, would be the way to cloud his vision.
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There's also no evidence that we wouldn't have taken Walker if we had the chance. We just don't know.
 
Glenn said:
We got what we wanted. If someone thinks they know more basketball than our FO, that's their arrogance. Also, Knight or his agent shot themselves in the foot by the cowardice of not competing against their peers in the pre-draft workouts. Someone's character is lacking.
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Someone...almost everyone...eh, why split hairs. ;)

But now I'm just trolling so I'll stop. I know I've set myself up to be wrong, but that's better than asserting nothing and claiming victory after the fact so I'm fine with that. I liked Knight a lot so can you blame me for being bummed that the Kings did everything possible to ensure that we did not draft him?
 
hrdboild said:
Yes and even if that's true, it's not an argument that the Kings made the best basketball related decision here. But I don't think it matters much if the Kings sell out every game next year. No arena deal means the team is gone regardless.
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Not necessarily. Joe Maloof commented on that not long after they "decided" to stay in Sacramento. He said they don't know what will happen next year until they get there. Basically, they'll cross that bridge when they get to it. As long as things are moving forward with an arena plan and no major obstacles come up, they'll be here for the 2012/2013 season as well. It's not like shovels have to be in the ground by next March.
 
Vlade4GM said:
Assuming Fredette was even his guy, I still think he made the wrong move. Walker is the better PG, and Fredette is going to have to play PG because Tyreke can't.
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Still the same tired old saw, and still the front office doesn't agree and isn't giving up the Reke PG experiment yet.

I felt more comfortable with Beno back there than Jimmer, but loading up the team with a variety of guys who can create for themselves or others is another way to approach thigns and compensate for Reke not being a pure PG. Out of our entire starting linuep who needs Reke to create their offense for them now? Basically just Daly. Also suspect we plan on running a lot of offense through Cousins in the future.
 
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