Kingston Jamaica
Bench
That last sentence is exactly he thing that makes me want to build the Kings future around him. I actually believe that his loyalty is such that he'll stay even if there are more lucrative options elsewhere.
Anyone else get the feeling...
- Thread starter Merdiesel
- Start date
That last sentence is exactly he thing that makes me want to build the Kings future around him. I actually believe that his loyalty is such that he'll stay even if there are more lucrative options elsewhere.
It's the old saying us Giants fans had about Bonds back in the day... "He may be an ***hole, but he's our ***hole."
If he does stay, the recipe to fix this simple... New coach and a defensive shooting guard.
The rest of the roster is completely serviceable. I still believe we have talent to make waves next year.
Kingston Jamaica
Bench
I'm too still very confident that the talent is there and just for a change, let's not make too many roster changes. These guys clearly like to play together and it is a big, big asset. Next year we'll give Seth more minutes, Quincy has been great with a lot of heart and Collison is just making a fantastic run out there. Willie is my favorite and BenMc will turn it around. I don't believe that the OKC didn't want to win the game.
The coach problem. I don't want anybody to misunderstand me. George Karl is a great coach. Anybody with that kind of record is. There should be no argument about that. However, the man has had his portion (big time) of bad health and probably isn't perfect even now. As somebody who has no inside sources, Karl looks tired and he gives the feeling that he struggles out there. I don't have a clue what the players think about him. I see Rondo discussing with Karl during timeouts and free throws. So clearly there's some respect (especially if it's Rondo). I personally like more defensive coaches, but that's just me. This is Vlade's call and I will respect whatever he decides.
Maybe Ben becomes serviceable, but I have zero confidence he will ever turn out to be anything special.
In terms of George Karl. He WAS a good coach.
You'd have a hard time convincing me any other coach in the league did worse than him this year given the talent. He butchered lineups, played guys out of position, benched Willie and Seth, threw guys under the bus, drew up the worst defensive game plan this city has ever seen... the list goes on. If his health was so god damn bad, he should have done right by the team and stepped down instead of dosing off on the sidelines. Instead, he selfishly sabotaged our final season at Arco Arena. He talked a big game to get this job and completely s*** the bed. What makes this so bad was the fact that we couldn't f'ing fire him! lol
I really wouldn't be this upset if the western conference wasn't so wide open this year. The stars really couldn't have been more aligned for us.
As they were doing the pregame stuff you could see Boogie warming up in the background and he seemed to be missing every shot. Now whether his shot was off and that was affecting his attitude or whether his attitude was off and that was affecting his shot I don't know.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
I'm not just talking about this game. I'm talking about in general through out the years he's been here.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
If him missing shots is a result of his bad attitude, we have some real problems then. It's all psychological and I don't know if you can fix that until you are content with it.
Mike
Bench
There's a good chance that in 2018 he is going to hit free agency and walk away from this team unless we are trending towards a top four seed in the west.
At this point, an argument could be made that we will never achieve that with the roster we have or with the potential realistic additions we can make. But there will be some that will argue that we could achieve that if we get the right head coach and make the right additions to this roster. I am on the fence. There's certainly an argument that this team could have competed for the play offs with better coaching, but there's also an argument that we wouldn't be much better off because the roster is flawed and is too inconsistent. We've been that "maybe they can but they probably won't" team for quite some time, and unless significant changes are made in the off season, that tag won't go away.
But to touch again on the Cousins issue. If we aren't a play off team these next two seasons and trending upwards towards contender status, we will probably lose Cousins because he should want to go somewhere that he can compete for a championship. We may view him as loyal, but we always controlled his future because players go from rookie deals to RFAs, and unless a team lets them walk, they get signed to a new deal with that team. But after their first contract extension ends they become UFAs, at this point even the loyal players can be won away by the right offer - not everyone is like Dirk Nowitzski. Look at Aldridge last off season. He spent nine seasons with Portland, he was playing on a talented team with a rising star PG, but he shuned them and signed with the Spurs to complete one of the best all round starting line ups in the league. Would Cousins do the same if presented with a similar offer?
We might think he'd stay here, but what if the Spurs two years from now come along and say: join Aldridge and Leonard to form a new big three and be coached by Pop. Perhaps the Clippers decide to ditch DeAndre Jordan and persuade Cousins to join Chris Paul and Blake Griffin. The Knicks and Phil Jackson might be able to sell an ageing Melo and rising star in Porzingis, slot Cousins in and that's one of the better front courts. Maybe Miami and Pat Riley make a play for him to join Wade in his final years. Or perhaps the Timberwolves decide to go for a star player and want Cousins at C, Towns at PF, Wiggins at SF and whoever else in their backcourt. Again, this is all speculation and maybe there are better options for him that emerge in the coming years, but all it takes is a Spurs and Aldridge like offer to sway Cousins away from us. The only thing that might keep him here is us ascending towards top four and title contender status. Unless of course he takes the big pay and is motivated by money, though frankly I think Cousins would be more motivated by competing for titles and if we can't offer him that he's as good as gone.
With that in mind, maybe we would consider an offer that is too good to refuse (eg if the Celtics offer us a boatload of draft picks and some young talent), then again with arguably no LeBron like talent at the top of this year's draft I doubt we'd be tempted to trade Cousins.
At this point, an argument could be made that we will never achieve that with the roster we have or with the potential realistic additions we can make. But there will be some that will argue that we could achieve that if we get the right head coach and make the right additions to this roster. I am on the fence. There's certainly an argument that this team could have competed for the play offs with better coaching, but there's also an argument that we wouldn't be much better off because the roster is flawed and is too inconsistent. We've been that "maybe they can but they probably won't" team for quite some time, and unless significant changes are made in the off season, that tag won't go away.
But to touch again on the Cousins issue. If we aren't a play off team these next two seasons and trending upwards towards contender status, we will probably lose Cousins because he should want to go somewhere that he can compete for a championship. We may view him as loyal, but we always controlled his future because players go from rookie deals to RFAs, and unless a team lets them walk, they get signed to a new deal with that team. But after their first contract extension ends they become UFAs, at this point even the loyal players can be won away by the right offer - not everyone is like Dirk Nowitzski. Look at Aldridge last off season. He spent nine seasons with Portland, he was playing on a talented team with a rising star PG, but he shuned them and signed with the Spurs to complete one of the best all round starting line ups in the league. Would Cousins do the same if presented with a similar offer?
We might think he'd stay here, but what if the Spurs two years from now come along and say: join Aldridge and Leonard to form a new big three and be coached by Pop. Perhaps the Clippers decide to ditch DeAndre Jordan and persuade Cousins to join Chris Paul and Blake Griffin. The Knicks and Phil Jackson might be able to sell an ageing Melo and rising star in Porzingis, slot Cousins in and that's one of the better front courts. Maybe Miami and Pat Riley make a play for him to join Wade in his final years. Or perhaps the Timberwolves decide to go for a star player and want Cousins at C, Towns at PF, Wiggins at SF and whoever else in their backcourt. Again, this is all speculation and maybe there are better options for him that emerge in the coming years, but all it takes is a Spurs and Aldridge like offer to sway Cousins away from us. The only thing that might keep him here is us ascending towards top four and title contender status. Unless of course he takes the big pay and is motivated by money, though frankly I think Cousins would be more motivated by competing for titles and if we can't offer him that he's as good as gone.
With that in mind, maybe we would consider an offer that is too good to refuse (eg if the Celtics offer us a boatload of draft picks and some young talent), then again with arguably no LeBron like talent at the top of this year's draft I doubt we'd be tempted to trade Cousins.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
See...that's our insecurity talking more than Cousins.
To the point of this whole thread, here was a Blake Ellington tweet from after the game on Saturday:
Now again, does that sound like a guy with one foot out the door?
Its the fans. I've been saying it for a while. Its a message that goes over better if I say "us", but people know too well where I stand for that to be credible.
See...that's our insecurity talking more than Cousins.
To the point of this whole thread, here was a Blake Ellington tweet from after the game on Saturday:
Now again, does that sound like a guy with one foot out the door?
Its the fans. I've been saying it for a while. Its a message that goes over better if I say "us", but people know too well where I stand for that to be credible.
This is why I love this kid.
I never said I think Cousins would be gone because he wants to leave btw... I just think the chance of the FO starting with a clean slate in the new arena is strong is all.
Mike
Bench
See...that's our insecurity talking more than Cousins.
To the point of this whole thread, here was a Blake Ellington tweet from after the game on Saturday:
Now again, does that sound like a guy with one foot out the door?
Its the fans. I've been saying it for a while. Its a message that goes over better if I say "us", but people know too well where I stand for that to be credible.
If Cousins shuns money and opportunity to compete for a championship to stay here in Sacramento because he loves it here like Dirk Nowitzski has done in Dallas - then Cousins is one of a kind to do that. I hope he does stay, but we can't discount the fact that another team can turn his head by offering the chance of competing for a championship, and if we aren't, then all we are counting on is his loyalty to Sacramento and that family like atmosphere.
But like I said, maybe the Spurs say come join Leonard and Aldridge to form a new big three, with Danny Green at SG and maybe Parker is still going at PG. Pop has 5 rings, maybe he has another by then, but even if he doesn't he's still a hall of fame coach that is well respected by his players and people around the league. As much as Cousins may love Sacramento, the Spurs would be an amazing and tempting place to go play your prime years competing for championships. Then of course there's always a Warriors scenario where he goes to play with Curry, Thompson and Green...
At the end of the day it's not me being insecure that makes me think he could leave in two years time, rather it's me seeing a very talented player in Cousins getting drawn away to go play on a very well run, coached, and talented team. Obviously I don't expect him to walk away and join Philly in rebuild mode, but an elite team like the Spurs are light years ahead of us at the minute and that might be what Cousins wants in the next chapter of his career.
Ultimately it comes down to what Cousins wants. Either he wants the best chance to win championships, or he wants to stay with one team and try and lead it to one even though the odds may be stacked against him with the super teams around.
Telemachus
Starter
I think Cousins comes from the same mold as Walter Payton. Many thought Payton would leave for a better team, but he felt like it was his job to get his team over the top. Leaving for a better team was simply admitting failure.
sono
Starter
I'm more worried about if the franchise can build a roster worthy around him the next two seasons, rather than if he wants to stay or leave afterwards. I don't want this unique talent to rot in one place, if the franchise fails to do their homework.
IfAt1st
Starter
Seriously - why would Cousins want to stay here any longer than necessary, with Napear dominating the local discourse as much as he does who is hell-bent on driving Demarcus out of town and poisoning the fanbase against him?
There is literally nothing Demarcus could do on or off the court that is enough to satisfy Grant or satiate his bloodlust for demonizing Demarcus.
There is no way one player can compete with the level of propaganda that Napear has been spewing for six years now.
It would take the franchise to work together, the coach to be good, and the players to all play well for them to become a winning team - and you know that Napear would still be blaming Cousins for every slight he could and make the fanbase even MORE hyper-critical of every mistake, if the team ever started to win. And he'd give all the credit to the front office, the coach and the other players if they did start to win.
I just don;t see Demarcus being able to withstand the thousands of hours of massive disinformation and slander pumps out every year against him, even if/when the Kings ever get their heads out of their asses and start winning.
I don;t see Demarcus staying a King if Grant Napear is still seated high on his bully-pulpit, looking down on him and lording his status above every fan.
There is literally nothing Demarcus could do on or off the court that is enough to satisfy Grant or satiate his bloodlust for demonizing Demarcus.
There is no way one player can compete with the level of propaganda that Napear has been spewing for six years now.
It would take the franchise to work together, the coach to be good, and the players to all play well for them to become a winning team - and you know that Napear would still be blaming Cousins for every slight he could and make the fanbase even MORE hyper-critical of every mistake, if the team ever started to win. And he'd give all the credit to the front office, the coach and the other players if they did start to win.
I just don;t see Demarcus being able to withstand the thousands of hours of massive disinformation and slander pumps out every year against him, even if/when the Kings ever get their heads out of their asses and start winning.
I don;t see Demarcus staying a King if Grant Napear is still seated high on his bully-pulpit, looking down on him and lording his status above every fan.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I haven't read the whole thread. Cousins has over and over and over said he would not leave Sacramento. In fact he sees it as a personal failure if the team doesn't do well. Perhaps he is more different than people can understand.
Head onward on the gloom and doom. Remember though that some people may think you are just stirring up unnecessary anxiety. There is nothing to argue until Cousins changes his mind and lets us know. If we need the fear of his leaving to construct a great team, we are truly a sorry franchise.
I DO wish the red headed jackass would stop his crusade. Why anyone would want to chase away the best player to play here in decades is beyond me.
Head onward on the gloom and doom. Remember though that some people may think you are just stirring up unnecessary anxiety. There is nothing to argue until Cousins changes his mind and lets us know. If we need the fear of his leaving to construct a great team, we are truly a sorry franchise.
I DO wish the red headed jackass would stop his crusade. Why anyone would want to chase away the best player to play here in decades is beyond me.
Blob
Starter
Ibaka and Adams are what happened. Adams plays position defense, doesn't buy fakes and frustrates Boogie with size strength and aggressiveness. Boogie can't bully him and Adams moves his feet pretty well. In 3 other games against OKC, Boogie was:
11-27 FGs
5-20 FGs
14-33 FGs
That's a FG% against OKC of 30-80 or 37.5% . Give those guys credit. 7-24 FGs or 29% is combination of Cousins pressing in the Kings "playoff game" and formidable opposition. I wouldn't read anything more into than that. Of course Boogie tried to suck the life out of the building with his sour demeanor and constant bickering, and given the amount of life in the building that was quite a feat. Only fouling out prevented accomplishment.
In more interesting news, two days until we should fire Karl and immediately begin our pursuit of Thibs before another team hires him under our nose. Vlade cannot delay here. I suspect a grandfather offer is being formulated if not he is being neglectful in his responsibilities. Fans deserve more than one thrilling game to end the season.
I thought about this recently and before you can serious discuss the possibility of hiring a new coach, you have to create an opening. Thibs is too ethical of guy to discuss the possibility while one of his colleagues is at the helm. Therefore Karl must be fired the day after the season ends.
Losing these two games is important because a new coach will feel more optimistic about odds for success if he can be project the 7th pick as an asset. Playing Ben 40 minutes and James Anderson at back-up PG should assure desirable outcome. And Don't Deny the Duje!!!
Kingston Jamaica
Bench
I absolutely agree with you when it comes to his mouth. I didn't follow him enough in the past to know if this is something new for him. Any great coach should not talk about his players like Karl does. You're the coach, so take the responsibility of whatever happens. If you have anything to say, say it to the players directly, never to or via the media. Somehow he reminds me of Byron Scott (not a great coach) who also has a big mouth. I'm simply not good enough basketball analyst to understand his roster adjustments, but before he came here, I was under the impression that he does not like to play rookies. Whatever the truth is, retrospectively he should have used his bench better. However, it is his mouth that have caused me to support the "moving on" camp. A great coach must have integrity and not throw his players under the buss. You would try to live with it if the W/L was great. Like they say, you don't argue with success. That is not the case here.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Prepare yourself for a prolonged process with leaks from all sides and reports of ownership squabbles...
I have heard from a couple of people now who think DMC may have been suffering from some "flu-like symptoms" during the game. It may actually be just that simple: he didn't feel that well but he was NOT going to miss the last home game at STA. Considering how loath Boogie is to discuss his injuries, I can accept that he would not want to use the stomach flu as an excuse either.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Yeah and he got rewarded by his team and coach by not giving him the ball to score the winning touchdown. Well done Chicago!
Telemachus
Starter
You are never going to forgive Coach Ditka for that, are you?
Dude, I don't even like football, and I'm not going to forgive Ditka for that.
To be fair, though, most of that hate is transitive: my dad was born and raised in Chicago.
To be fair, though, most of that hate is transitive: my dad was born and raised in Chicago.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Ditka sucks rotten banana's. No, I'll never forgive him!
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
any twitter emoji's or cryptic tweets?
Telemachus
Starter
Hey! I agree. Ditka went with the gimmick play instead of rewarding a great player who showed great loyalty to the Bears.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Was that actually the winning touchdown in a 46-10 game?
