KingsFanSince85
All-Star
This, my friend, is a prime example why I believe you to be among the better contributors to this site. i dig your pragmatic, straight-forward, stoic yet factual approach.
Andrei Kirilenko
- Thread starter steelevt
- Start date
This, my friend, is a prime example why I believe you to be among the better contributors to this site. i dig your pragmatic, straight-forward, stoic yet factual approach.
Best bet. Have a short memory. What's the outfit done for me lately? Added a couple of possibilities and got rid of a poor player. Did anyone ever think we would or could get AK47? Never very likely. My hope is that Petrie finds a trading partner to change a face or two and balance out the lineup. That may happen one day. On all the rest of the days speculation and hope and negativism will abound, and I'll keep coming back for more and hope for the best.
kingjatt
Starter
Winning fixes alot of negitivity and gives the FO some slack for missing out on a player or 2, messing up a 1st round draft pick, completing a horrible trade or a bad free agent signing here and there, but when the team hasnt won in 6-8 years, and you see teams that were seemingly behind us (timberwolves,hornets,grizz to an extent, etc) in the rebuilding process all getting much better whille our roster is put together all wrong its bound to create alot of negativity. We have winning talent, but we no where near having a winning TEAM. (IMO)
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
im starting to have a really hard time thinking of one team in the western conference that will not have a better record than the Kings next season.....
CaminoChaos
Bench
WOW! $10 mil a year and a player option new cba is doing a great job. Ill take jj and brooks for $6 mil and not pay a luxury tax.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
You can go over the salary cap and not pay the luxury tax. There are two levels involved. Go over $58 mil and it is going over the salary cap. This restricts signing free agents and a few other things. Go over $70 mil and you start paying luxury tax. Most teams go over the salary cap or at least that's the way it used to be. Quite a few are paying luxury tax but the change in the CBA is that the tax is very painful and the more years you go over the luxury tax cap, the more painful it gets.
Minnesota will pay no luxury tax and in fact, and I admit I don't know the details, they couldn't sign AK if his salary took them over the salary cap ($58 mil)
Somebody else mentioned our signing of JJ for $2.8 mil via a trade of a 2nd round draft choice looks good. Who knows? JJ might turn out to be as good as AK especially as AK ages. What JJ will never bring is vet leadership and he might be a bit of a trouble maker. He was with his last team.
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kingjatt
Starter
gotta pay to play....wow the wolves get to dump Wes Johnson and pick up AK, alot of cash but you have to spend to get the pieces that you want and that fit.
steelevt
All-Star
$10 million a year huh? i was very big on us getting AK and probably would have been fine with this price last season, but with him being another year older i find it harder to justify $10 mil a year now. i think the most i would have wanted to spend was 8 mil. i think AK will really help out the timberwolves and hopefully JJ will step up for us too
CaminoChaos
Bench
Oh I see. My bad. Still i wouldn't pay $10 mil for him only to have him for a year or two. He'll be to old by time we become a playoff competitor and I don't think he'll make us a playoff force either. I believe this team goes as far as DeMarcus takes us and when Tyreke gets a jump shot.
King Baller
All-Star
We all watched AK47 play for the Jazz for years. I just don't remember him being that great. What am I missing?
KB
KB
rhythmless
Starter
In regards to the "wait and see" approach that has been bandied about in this thread and many other threads as an argument against opinions and predictions, this is a forum. It's meant to talk about anything and everything. You don't like it, don't read it.
The same guys that say to "wait and see" will also say that "one year isn't enough to judge" and will also say "wait until after his rookie contract." You can also tell people to stop judging until a player's entire career is done. And so on and so forth. Why don't we wait till the end of days so we can judge a player based on a bevy of other players? Where does the sliding scale end? What is fair? This isn't realistic.
Petrie is paid and judged based on what he did, what he could do and what he couldn't do. He's paid for results, not good intentions. He's paid to see the landscape of the NBA and act accordingly. With that comes unknown unknowns and some amount of luck to be successful. But again, that's what he's paid for. It may not be fair (I would say it's completely fair), but that's the job and he's free to leave it. If everyone took a wait till X years approach, nothing would get done. You can say it's a factor of this new informational age, but his product on the court is his product on the court. That's that. Who he gets and doesn't get falls on him. If he doesn't want that scenario, he's in the wrong career.
A player is paid to make shots, not take miss an inordinate amount shots labeled as good selections. An investment banker's job is to bet with other people's money. If he makes a good educated guess, he makes millions. If he guesses wrong, he loses millions. And it's his fault. A car washer's job is to get crap off of cars, not try earnestly to get crap off cars. If these people fail in their professions, it's their fault, regardless of how smartly or idiotically they went about it. Why is Petrie any different? Why do you guys continue to give him so much slack? As I see it, he's used up all of the "In Petrie We Trust" reputation years ago. Once upon a time, we see a dubious move, and chalk it up to a braintrust that knew what he was doing. Some Kenny Thomas salary years later, I don't see how his followers continue to put him on the same pedestal he enjoyed during the CWebb/Vlade years. He got all of the credit then. He should get all of the blame now.
It's been 7 years. Is that enough wait and see time?
The same guys that say to "wait and see" will also say that "one year isn't enough to judge" and will also say "wait until after his rookie contract." You can also tell people to stop judging until a player's entire career is done. And so on and so forth. Why don't we wait till the end of days so we can judge a player based on a bevy of other players? Where does the sliding scale end? What is fair? This isn't realistic.
Petrie is paid and judged based on what he did, what he could do and what he couldn't do. He's paid for results, not good intentions. He's paid to see the landscape of the NBA and act accordingly. With that comes unknown unknowns and some amount of luck to be successful. But again, that's what he's paid for. It may not be fair (I would say it's completely fair), but that's the job and he's free to leave it. If everyone took a wait till X years approach, nothing would get done. You can say it's a factor of this new informational age, but his product on the court is his product on the court. That's that. Who he gets and doesn't get falls on him. If he doesn't want that scenario, he's in the wrong career.
A player is paid to make shots, not take miss an inordinate amount shots labeled as good selections. An investment banker's job is to bet with other people's money. If he makes a good educated guess, he makes millions. If he guesses wrong, he loses millions. And it's his fault. A car washer's job is to get crap off of cars, not try earnestly to get crap off cars. If these people fail in their professions, it's their fault, regardless of how smartly or idiotically they went about it. Why is Petrie any different? Why do you guys continue to give him so much slack? As I see it, he's used up all of the "In Petrie We Trust" reputation years ago. Once upon a time, we see a dubious move, and chalk it up to a braintrust that knew what he was doing. Some Kenny Thomas salary years later, I don't see how his followers continue to put him on the same pedestal he enjoyed during the CWebb/Vlade years. He got all of the credit then. He should get all of the blame now.
It's been 7 years. Is that enough wait and see time?
RussoTuristo
G-League
You are missing a very good defensive SF (one on one, help defense, rim protector), solid ball handler for a guy with a 7+ wingspan, above average ball distributor and average shooter, not ball dominant. Not a super star by any means but he has a pretty amazing resume for a SF. Last year he was absolutely dominant in Europe. IMO he will help Minny tremendously and could have been an ideal SF for our team.
rhythmless
Starter
Compared to the entire league, no, AK was never great. Within the confines of his position and role, however, he was a superstar. Just like Battier was always a great roleplayer, and just as Batum got a large contract this year, the small forward that can be the "defend multiple positions, glue guy, 3pt shooter, effective off ball, doesn't create problems, helps flow of team" is a coveted player. AK has more length than most of his ilk and was a very good shotblocker as well. AK47 isn't worth 10M, but his type of game enables the more skilled players to be better, and that's worth money.
A lengthy defensive 3 that can guard 2s and/or 4s and can hit a good amount of 3pointers is more rare than a 20pt backcourt scorer, designated 2 guard bomber, etc. I would say that after your true stars, a SF 3pt defensive roleplayer and paint defender/blocker/rebounder are the most needed pieces.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Baja, don't be discouraged. Maybe I'm one of the negative nancy's you were talking about - there's no way to know. But even though we may disagree on some (not all) issues, it doesn't mean we can't get on. IMO, you're one of the best posters here. Don't let difference of opinion get you down. You're badly needed here. Just thought it was worth stating as I'd hate to see one of the better posters disappear. I actually agree with you on 90% of things. Brick is probably the only poster I agree with more. That's high praise... Come back!!!
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
One thing you have to take into account is that we were in touch with Ak's agent last wiinter, made him an offer, and he said "niet". And you know, its not impossible he said sorry, niet, I do not want to play in Sacramento for your rebuilding team. That could be an explanation why we don't contract him this offseason. Maybe we already knew what he would say. So we move on and try to fill in the hole through other means. Even if we had room, maybe he is just not interested.
steelevt
All-Star
i dont disagree that he might not have any interest in sac. the only thing i question is your possible reasoning of him not wanting to go to a rebuilding team. i think minny is also rebuilding but are heading in the right direction where as we are either standing still or heading in the right direction very very slowly.
King Baller
All-Star
The things Minny has over Sacto in Order of importance for AK47:
1) $10,000,000 a year.
1A) Owner is spending.
2) Coach Adelman.
3) Other Euro players.
4) Kevin Love is an All Star and on Team USA.
5) Rubio is a pass first PG.
6) Weather like Mother Russia
KB
steelevt
All-Star
The things Minny has over Sacto in Order of importance for AK47:
1) $10,000,000 a year.
1A) Owner is spending.
2) Coach Adelman.
3) Other Euro players.
4) Kevin Love is an All Star and on Team USA.
5) Rubio is a pass first PG.
6) Weather like Mother Russia
KB
haha i was thinking about putting almost every one of your points, but was too lazy. so i just put heading in the right direction.
ParniValjak
All-Star
There is a fine line between optimism and delusion and no I am not saying that you or anyone else who is being optimistic is delusional.
I am just looking at the fact that our own franchise and the front office have been telling us for the last 6 season which we have been in the lottery. Once we started cutting salary and trading proven player for young prospects, picks and expiring contracts, which were absolutely the right moves, the Kings were selling us line that it is all about clearing cap space for the big name free agent class in 2010. Most of us thought, "that is some smart decision making" even though realistically we were never going to get LeBron, Wade, Bosh or anyone else of that calibre. It is reality that the biggest name to sign with the Sacramento Kings as a free agent was Vlade Divac. Were we negative or realistic?!
So when the team came out and said we are not targeting 2011 free agency class some of us thought that is good because there would be some very good free agent in that class that are gettable and would be great fits for this team. For year we as fans have been promised that we will clear this cap space and have to ability to offer 2 max deals and will to quote our team's owner "get the free agent list and start from the top" and how we will "spend it all"! Well that worked out well didn't it?!
Our cap space (which was equivalent of 2 max contracts) and contract flexibility was used on Salmons (and you are right he is a productive player), Chuck Hayes, Travis Outlaw, Aaron Brooks and James Johnson as well as re-signing JT and MT to what are looking like bargain contracts when compared to the rest of the NBA. I do think that Brooks could be a bargain but I am not convinced that he is a good fit on this team because he is yet another player that needs his shots and touches to be effective. One thing we have more than enough off. But he is a cheap contract, a very dynamic player who can be a real bargain. The contract itself is fine but I am yet to be convinced that fit is.
Chuck Hayes signing made absolutely no sense to a lot of us and you know what, its proving to be that way. You called negativity and in this case I call it reality. Another season like last one and that contract becomes more difficult to move especially with the heftier luxury tax penalties for team that under the old CBA would not mind adding a situational role playing vet to get them over the line.
Outlaw was worth a game and might work out as is JJ. Salmons on the other hand was always going to be troublesome despite being an effective and reasonable player. It is about a fit and not necessarily talent when it comes to certain stage of a rebuild. Bruce Bowen fit like a glove in San Antonio but someone like Glen Rice would have been a much talented player.
And here is the problem that we find ourselves in. We spent all the cap room without getting an impact player that clearly makes us better. We spend cap space on our bench without actually getting the starting line up sorted. This team needed to get impact players at positions of need and simply not add talented players that do not fit but those that complement the core we have. To this point we have not done that. Last year we recruited Salmons and Hickson via trades and a lot of us could see issues as soon as the trades were made. Salmons is at his most effective when he has the ball in his hands and goes to work. Hickson needs the ball going though his hands a lot of the time offensively for him to be effective. The problem was that our 3 best players also needed to touch the ball a lot to be effective. I know you have said in the past that everyone needs the ball to be effective but the thing that you don't seem to accept or understand is that there are player who are effective off the ball and those that need the ball. Classic example is JJ Hickson Vs Jason Thompson. JJ is effective or productive only when he gets the ball and its a reason why he was such a failure for us with Cousins. On the other hand, JT is effective player off the ball and does not need to take 10 shots to be effective. You don't have to pass him the ball, he just find a way to get it and score on put backs and clean ups. That is a major difference.
You are absolutely right in saying that this team does have talent and it needs to be used correctly but since the day Adelman was shown the door, this franchise has not shown a single ounce of competency in doing that. Even Smart last year showed that he is not sure what to do and him moving Tyreke to SF is a clear indication of this. How exactly was this going to work out. Many of us called the outcome as soon as the move was made and surprise surprise the end result was pretty much as expected.
You are also right in saying that we might have traded for Johnson at the right time. He COULD be just what the doctor ordered but the problem is for 6 years we have been paddled a PR propaganda by our team and the thing that they ABSOLUTELY needed to do with that cap space (last 2 off seasons) is to get a PROVEN IMPACT PLAYER that fits with this team and provides some much needed leadership. We have not done that and in the process spent some $20 million dollars of cap space on players that are NOT having an impact for us and are unfortunately becoming more difficult to move with their big contracts and the looming luxury tax penalties.
I know that you like to sit on the fence and would like to see it before you make call. Its called having a bet each way but I am convinced that if you put a professional and smart front office like the San Antonio crew into our position at the end of 2010-2011 season and I am willing to bet anything that their moves would have been VERY different to those that we made and I am willing to go a step further and say, that under their guidance we would have made the play off this season. Instead we pissed our cap space on speculative signings and marched our way to yet another average season.
Those that succeed in their professional field are those that make educated decisions with a lot of analysis and assessments. Those that make decisions because they look good or on the lets see how it work out principle often wallow in mediocrity. The worst thing that a rebuilding team can do is not make the most of the draft AND waste cap space on non-impact players. We certainly did the later. Close to $20 million and we STILL have the same deficiencies that we had before it. That is not being negative. That is being a realist.
King Baller
All-Star
OK, I will bite. PROVE to me that Aaron Brooks is not an IMPACT player. Seems like everywhere he goes he is the #1 PG unless he is backing up a HOFer.
KB
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kingjatt
Starter
Im sure he is reffering to the cap space for free agents to compliment our draft picks when he is saying we didnt get impact players. (like minny did by getting ak to compliment rubio and love)
So what if we would have had to overpay 10-12 million for AK, thats still better than a combined salmons and outlaw (11 million) who are dead wieght and on the books for longer than AK would be.
Its like the FO has an ego that we will only sign players for perceived market value or below and if the player doesnt like it well too bad. We are in no place to have an ego and we have zero leverage when trying to get a mid-level free agent given our turmoil and recent history.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I had no intention of making any further posts for a while. I had decided to leave the fourm, at least to get a breath of fresh air. Maybe permantly. But your excellent post fresh out of the oven, demands an immediate response from me. So let me start by saying that I don't disagree with one thing you just stated. And I don't deem what you said as negative. Quite the opposite, it was well thought out and intelligently writen. You see, my post wasn't about what a persons says as much as it was about how its said.
Its about in a small sense, civility, and being informative. You didn't just make a blanket statement about a move, or a move maker, you gave your opinion, and then backed that opinion with intelligent reasons. I will never have a problem with that. I do take small umbrage with referring to me as a fence sitter. I do reserve complete judgement until I see the results, but I have on many occasions voiced my less than favorable position on a move when its originally made. I just don't condemn it at that early stage. I happen to do that, based on past personal experiences. In other words, I've been burned by not giving someone the benefit of the doubt, and by not being given that benefit of doubt.
In short, many folks are posting out of anger. Anger at the Maloofs, and anything that happens to be associated with them. Which is a big circle. I guess the best way of putting it, is the collateral damage from the Maloofs covers a large area. Some of it perhaps unwarranted. I understand the anger! I feel it myself, but its nonproductive. There are many times on this fourm where a post angers me, and 99% of the time, I force myself not to respond till later, after the anger passes. Its the other 1% that gets me in trouble and left me apologizing for what I posted. I try never to offend anyone, which is impossible, but I try. Anyway, excellent post. I wish everyone that posted was as thoughtful. Adios...
I hope you are not leaving for long bajaden, there are few others around her who watch as much hoops as you do and have also been around long enough to exhibit the control and restraint you show at times.
Flopi
Bench
Same here bajaden.
I don't post very often (to say the least) but, as a regular reader, I think you are one of the better posters in this forum.
Unfortunately, it's human nature that angry people are noisier than the happy ones.
That should not cause to forget we are numerous to enjoy your posts.
Take a beer, come back with us and ignore the others
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Take a beer, come back with us and ignore the others
Ignoring them is far easier than trying to convert them. There are certain survival technics necessary to take part especially if you are real active. I personally have cut back on my volume of posts. Leaves me less vulnerable to dumb comments. I have yet to master the art of of shrugging off certain types of comments. I doubt that I am going to mature any more than I have.
Section 101
All-Star
Take a beer, come back with us and ignore the others
He's in mexico they don't have beer just corona.
Ignoring them is far easier than trying to convert them. There are certain survival technics necessary to take part especially if you are real active. I personally have cut back on my volume of posts. Leaves me less vulnerable to dumb comments. I have yet to master the art of of shrugging off certain types of comments. I doubt that I am going to mature any more than I have.
I'm in the same boat, Glenn.
And as an aside for those who may not know, Glenn and I have had some battles royale over the years. The one thing that has remained constant, however, is that we keep coming back. I respect Glenn and his take and his dedication to the Sacramento Kings. He speaks with passion from the heart, much as I do (which is probably one of the reasons we clash). I, too, have recently learned that it's just better to ignore some posters than continually butt heads with them. Life will go on...and in my case my blood pressure will be much better.
GO KINGS!
Krunker
Northernmost Kings Fan
Take a beer, come back with us and ignore the others
Don't you mean reach for a silky smooth Zing Red Velvet Vodka?
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