Andrea Bargnani not the next King (merged)

Bargnani becoming a King immediately makes me think of Matt Bonner. Hes only there to act as a release valve for Cousins and in spot minutes. We have players that like to get to the basket. Guys like Bargnani and Belinelli will help them to do that.

We have some pretty serious depth.
 
When your depth chart at the big slot presumably features three of the better defensive bigs in the game you can afford to drop a couple million on a feather-soft big man who can stretch the floor.

Bargs became a total laughing-stock in New York, but New York's media probably blew things a bit out of proportion. People have been clamoring for Ryan Anderson as a stretch big for a while. Well, with this signing, we sorta got that same sort of guy (without some of the intangibles and the whole being from Sacramento angle).
 
swisshh said:
He's a great shooter, but his mental lapses are legendary. Bargs is gonna pee off a lot of Kings fans.

Hope I'm wrong.
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Considering we had to endure a half season of Ramon Sessions playing like the aliens from Space Jam stole his mojo, three seasons of IT giving less than a full effort on defense and almost two seasons of whatever the hell Derrick Williams was doing, I think we'll be able to survive a couple of dumb minutes a game from our fourth big man. Let's remember that this franchise has had plenty of stupid/airheaded players in the past.
 
He's the 4th big (really the 5th with Rudy likely getting a ton of burn at the 4) who fills a need as a specialist for us. I'd be concerned if we were bringing him on to be a 25 MPG guy, but we aren't. In a role where he's here to add veteran depth, he's perfectly fine. Not many guys at the end of a rotation can get hot and drop you 20 points. Decent bullet to turn to on occasion.
 
I'm ok with Bargs. This is a 4th big spot not a starting spot or even a first big off the bench spot. Smith is more talented, but would require some serious balancing of PT from Karl, and could potentially be a tempting way for Karl to mess with Boogie since Smith can run the court, passes ok, and can play Karl Small ball in a way Boogie doesn't. With Bargs, there's no PT balance issue, he's clearly a 4th big, and he brings a skill none of our other bigs have (stretch big). If he plays 2 minutes a game it's not going to affect team chemistry. If he has to play 20 minutes a night, he can compliment any of the other 3 bigs we already have on the roster.
 
Tetsujin said:
When your depth chart at the big slot presumably features three of the better defensive bigs in the game you can afford to drop a couple million on a feather-soft big man who can stretch the floor.

Bargs became a total laughing-stock in New York, but New York's media probably blew things a bit out of proportion. People have been clamoring for Ryan Anderson as a stretch big for a while. Well, with this signing, we sorta got that same sort of guy (without some of the intangibles and the whole being from Sacramento angle).
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Yeah, NYK is hardly the place for a guy like Bargs. He was expected to be the teams top scorer and the defensive presence in the paint last season....which only spells disaster. I think if you take pressure off him as any sort of a lead option and tell him to go camp at the 3pt line, he'll be a nice addition for 10-15 MPG. He'll also always be playing with Koufos, Cuz or WCS, so he won't ever be matched up with the other team's best post player. Another good sign.

The other nice thing is this lets us not rush Moreland. While I'd like to see him on the roster at some point, he'd be better served getting a full year of D-League as a feature player down there.
 
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Gary said:
Yah, I do not want Bargnani here.
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Out all players who played at least 10% of their teams minutes, Bargnani had the worst +/- in the entire league. I know point differential is not much of a stat, but worst? He beat Session by a good -5 point per48.

I hope this is just a smoke screen.
 
'89 Kings Fan said:
Out all players who played at least 10% of their teams minutes, Bargnani had the worst +/- in the entire league. I know point differential is not much of a stat, but worst? He beat Session by a good -5 point per48.

I hope this is just a smoke screen.
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Well he was on the Knicks... Sessions' numbers would have been pulled up when he was with the Wizards
 
'89 Kings Fan said:
Out all players who played at least 10% of their teams minutes, Bargnani had the worst +/- in the entire league. I know point differential is not much of a stat, but worst? He beat Session by a good -5 point per48.

I hope this is just a smoke screen.
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+/- is a bit of an iffy stat when a guy was on a team as bad as the Knicks were last year (plus he was a terrible fit on the Knicks, no low post scoring to get him open looks, a team of terrible defenders around another terrible defender). If you just talk about fit, it makes sense. Do we have defensive bigs to mitigate his weakness? Yes. Do we have low post scorers who could use a complimentary stretch big shooter? Sure. Are we relying on him to play major minutes at all? No.

The shot chart Brick posted earlier in the thread is the more important stat to me. Can he come off the bench for a few minutes and punish teams that try to pack the paint against Boogie/Koufos? The shot chart looks like he can.
 
Wasnt he the starting Center alongside Lou Amundson? Of course its gonna be a disaster. I think one should look at his Toronto seasons as a better indication of what hes about. As long as hes on the floor with DMC, Koufos, or WCS his defense isnt a big issue. Will probably only play 15 min a night.
 
Obviously this is a move to fill the end of our bench. IMO we could do worse for a 4th or 5th big for spot minutes, which is what I think he'll be. Idk. I think we should give him a chance at least before we just write him off.
 
:)Good shooter = floor spacer

From looking at his stats his 3 point % went down along with the number of shots. He came in the first five seasons hitting .373, .345, .409, .372 and .345 and those seasons he shot 200 to 300 threes. Then when he shot around a 100 threes the percentage went down. Stats--> http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2987/andrea-bargnani

I think he will sign for 2 to 3 Mil per. He is a Pro and the other team has to guard him. If he becomes a King the squad is suddenly full of Vets who can play! How great is that:)
 
As I said before, I'm not really happy to bring Bargs on board. He's the softest player you can find, mainly because he does not have a passion for this game. Cuz is going to eat him alive. But hey, if it's only for 10/15 minutes a game, I think I will try to live with that and root for him, as I do for every King.

Injuries also concern me. My opinion is that he's not willing to play through pain, so if he doesn't feel 100% he just won't play. Let's see how it goes...
 
Other than being a low IQ player, not a good passer, bad rebounder, god-awful defender and just a generally soft player who despite being 7 feet doesn't give you any of the advantages being 7 feet gives you baketball wise- I can get him as a situational player since he can strech the floor and is a capable scorer.

He is the first player we added this off-season to have an above league average (15) PER...
 
Oh my god! "Il Mago" ! LOL
I prefer J-Smoove instead of Bargs, but I think the first one wants more money...
I am, well I was, a big fan of Andrea while he played in Italy, but now I'm little scared about him..
I hope (IF we sign him) that with Marco and with all the other "tough" guys Andrea can "improve" his mental skills, even if I do not have good memories about Andrea&Marco when they played together with the Raps (season 09/10, they finished just one step out of the PO, but they were young, so maybe..); but with the italian National Team they played, most of times, very good.
We, probably, need a real stretch #4 and I don't see a lot of "these" players out there, so at vet.min could be a "smart" move...

We'll see..
 
Where is the benefit in playing Bargs as a stretch4 over Gay or Casspi?
Yes he is 7ft. Tall but he doesnt play like it and he lacks energy and toughness.
If we really want more shooting on the floor for stretches, we can go with a combination of Gay, Casspi and Marco/Ben.
Everyone was complaining about the Kings defense. Now we added a couple of solid defensive big man and expect to get away with sub par perimeter defenders? This will not work. We need to add one guy, who can lock down guys like Bron, Durant or even Hayward or Parsons as best as possible.
 
What I'm afraid of is Cauley-Stein and Moreland not being ready at all which puts George Karl in the unfortunate position of having to play a 4 man frontcourt rotation of Cousins, Koufos, Gay, and Bargnani. That's a rotation which is going to be giving up points like a sieve for half the game. Literally anyone who's an average defender would be better. Are we really that obsessed with the idea of a big who can stretch the floor that we're going to add one of the worst defenders in the league into our frontcourt rotation and flirt with the possibility that George Karl plays him 20-30 minutes per game out of simple necessity? Theoretically if Moreland and Cauley-Stein are still on the team 3 years from now and have established themselves as defensive stoppers you can absorb a defensive liability like Bargnani without losing much. Anyone expecting those two guys to captain our defense at this point in their careers though is getting way way way ahead of the game.
 
If Bargs would sign here, I would support coz I know we got a smart coaching staff and GM now, who will put a good leash on his minutes so he can be efficient.

His problem with the Raptors and Knicks is that he has to play long stretches which easily expose his in efficiencies. Here he will be like a 3rd or 4th big, which is more likely gonna be aimed to provide another big man scorer for rotation consistency.

Please stand back and remember this team has veteran coach now. The Reggie Theus era has long been over. So folks stop commenting like we still got so-so coaches, who does not even do player scouting and mis manage player minutes.
 
KingsCitizen said:
Please stand back and remember this team has veteran coach now. The Reggie Theus era has long been over. So folks stop commenting like we still got so-so coaches, who does not even do player scouting and mis manage player minutes.
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Good point. But even the best veteran coach can only work with the pieces he has.
Right now our only good perimeter defender is Collison. Gay is decent, when he is locked in. Casspi is all hustle, but not really good at the defensive end. Ben is still unproven and Rondo needs to prove, that he can get his D back on track.
But to be a good defensive team we need to play good to great perimeter defense. And our bench, even though it's improved, consists only out of sub par to bad defenders for the 2-3 spot.
We got good big man defenders and we got 2 stretch 4's in Gay and Casspi. Where is the benefit in Bargnani?
 
Not a fan of him at all but yes I can see the thinking.

We desperately need people to stretch the floor and he can step into the midrange too flare to the free throw line like Landry used too and actually be a threat.

If it's a reasonable deal it's a smart move and another than will be ridiculed endlessly by sanctimonious New York based wanna be comedians, masquerading as "sports writers" for grant land.
 
'89 Kings Fan said:
Out all players who played at least 10% of their teams minutes, Bargnani had the worst +/- in the entire league. I know point differential is not much of a stat, but worst? He beat Session by a good -5 point per48.

I hope this is just a smoke screen.
Click to expand...

To be fair, the thing about his +/-, which without looking I would assume are bad every year, is that this year he as usual missed half the season, and the half he missed happened to be the half while Melo was still playing. In fact Bargs essentially showed up on the very last game Melo played on the season. So almost all Bargs minutes are on a Meloless Knicks, who also dumped many of their remaining NBA caliber players at the deadline.
 
Bricklayer said:
To be fair, the thing about his +/-, which without looking I would assume are bad every year, is that this year he as usual missed half the season, and the half he missed happened to be the half while Melo was still playing. In fact Bargs essentially showed up on the very last game Melo played on the season. So almost all Bargs minutes are on a Meloless Knicks, who also dumped many of their remaining NBA caliber players at the deadline.
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Using ESPNs adusted real plus minus he was 459 out of 474. It's supposed to account for teammates. Derrick Williams was 461.

Any other big would be better than Bargs.
 
KingsFanGER said:
Good point. But even the best veteran coach can only work with the pieces he has.
Right now our only good perimeter defender is Collison. Gay is decent, when he is locked in. Casspi is all hustle, but not really good at the defensive end. Ben is still unproven and Rondo needs to prove, that he can get his D back on track.
But to be a good defensive team we need to play good to great perimeter defense. And our bench, even though it's improved, consists only out of sub par to bad defenders for the 2-3 spot.
We got good big man defenders and we got 2 stretch 4's in Gay and Casspi. Where is the benefit in Bargnani?
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Bargnani's benefit is that he can put points on the score board. Do you remember how bad the Kings bench has been? Teams would go on runs when the starters were on the bench. Even with all his flaws Bargnani can score. We are talking about a 14 point a game scorer signing for the Vet minimum. My one concern is all the injuries Bargnani has had. At this point the Kings need a strategy where the bench can just play even while the starters rest.

Do you agree the Kings will be better defensively? They have added Koufas, WCS, Rondo, Belenelli, Butler and Moreland should be healthy. So far they gave up JT, Landry and Stauskas. That exchange of talent should bring improvement IMO.

To say nothing of the improvement in Coaching. Yes Coaching. All we need is for Vlade to bring peace between Karl and DeMarcus.

All that said I like Josh Smith too and I would love to have a wing defender who could slow down Lebron or Curry. Those guys are hard to get with Vet minimum deals. Probably we will see the best wing defender from Summer League get the Training Camp invite.
 
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