and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...

[Vlade4GM]

Holiday played great defense against USC, he looked awkward offensively at times but I don't know how you can knock his defense.

 

[nbrans]

Holiday played great defense against USC, he looked awkward offensively at times but I don't know how you can knock his defense.

I thought he played defense a lot like he played offense -- good potential and some awesome plays, but really raw. He never seemed to know how he should play screens, he was slow back in transition, and he can get a little lost. He's definitely got the athletic tools to be a good defender at the point and he stayed in front of DeRozen, but much like his offense, it's mostly potential at this point. I see why you like the guy, but he's at least a couple years away from being an NBA point guard. He needs more seasoning, and I'd be really nervous about drafting him and thrusting him onto a chaotic team with a lot of pressure due to to the hopes of a franchise that drafted him high.

He's obviously farther along than where Westbrook was as a frosh, but by the time Westbrook was drafted he was much more polished than Holiday, and he was still considered an upside pick. Guys as raw as Holiday have such an uncertain track record.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Collisin Reminds me of a rondo/ devin Harris mix.

Average those two guys this year and you get something like 16.8 points, 7.2 assists (about 2.75 A/T), 1.9 steals, 4.0 rebounds. Those are the kind of numbers that would easily be a top-10 pick in this draft, and likely top-5.

I mean, it seems like most people here would be on board with taking Collison with the Rockets' pick (if he lasts that long) but are pretty cold to the idea of taking him with our pick, assuming it's top-5. But if you honestly believed that Collison would put up those kind of numbers by, say, the '10-'11 season wouldn't he deserve consideration outside of the top 3?

I'm not saying Collison will be that good - I just don't know. But on that assumption he would enter the discussion, right?

 

[nbrans]

I like Collison a lot, but I think he's more of a quicker-Calderon, better-shooting-Brevin Knight, or homeless man's Steve Nash than he is anything like Rondo and Harris. Rondo and Harris are penetrate and dish/finish guys, and while Collison is improving his finishing, that's not really his game. He's more of a probe the defense and pass/shoot type of guy. In the NBA I see him more running pick and rolls and possibly being an ideal triangle/Princeton point rather than being a penetrate and dish player. Defensively I hope he's like Rondo and Harris, but Rondo's entire game is basically geared around compensating for not being able to shoot and Harris would drive first shoot second.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I'm thinking more along the lines of Chris Duhon.

 

[nbrans]

I'm thinking more along the lines of Chris Duhon.

Whaaaaa.... Chris Duhon can't shoot and isn't as quick. He was a 4 year senior who shot 30% from 3 his senior year.

Maybe you mean in terms of impact? I would disagree, but ok. They're really different players.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Ive been against picking Collision since last year, havent seen him play at all this year.

This may have been said here already, but what has he IMPROVED on since last year... or is he just making plays now that westbrook is gone?

 

[Vlade4GM]

Whaaaaa.... Chris Duhon can't shoot and isn't as quick. He was a 4 year senior who shot 30% from 3 his senior year.

Maybe you mean in terms of impact? I would disagree, but ok. They're really different players.

Duhon has shot 36% from 3 in his career and is shooting 40% this year while averaging about 4 attempts per game. Both good defenders, good IQ, solid playmakers, and poor finishers.

 

[nbrans]

Duhon has shot 36% from 3 in his career and is shooting 40% this year while averaging about 4 attempts per game. Both good defenders, good IQ, solid playmakers, and poor finishers.

Right, but he's shooting below 40% from the field from his career, and while he's somehow making shots this season historically he's been pretty bad. I hope that's not Collison's future.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Ive been against picking Collision since last year, havent seen him play at all this year.

This may have been said here already, but what has he IMPROVED on since last year... or is he just making plays now that westbrook is gone?

Part of it was that he got injured early last season and came back and played hurt. It really hampered his speed and explosiveness. Having the offseason to heal up, he seems to have his old attributes back and is playing much better again.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Right, but he's shooting below 40% from the field from his career, and while he's somehow making shots this season historically he's been pretty bad. I hope that's not Collison's future.

Well I think Collison's awkward release is going to trouble him a lot more at the NBA level against quicker and longer defenders, which will lead to a lower percentage. That's really not my point though with the Duhon comparison, I'm not trying to say they're identical, just that they both will be solid role players with similar strengths and weaknesses. A better version probably.

 

[Entity]

Well I think Collison's awkward release is going to trouble him a lot more at the NBA level against quicker and longer defenders, which will lead to a lower percentage. That's really not my point though with the Duhon comparison, I'm not trying to say they're identical, just that they both will be solid role players with similar strengths and weaknesses. A better version probably.

The same was said about Martin and Marion.

 

[Entity]

Collison is just the type pg I was taling about earlier in the thread. the best part is he plays defense.

 

[nbrans]

Watching Memphis/Tulsa-

I see why people like Jerome Jordan with a late 1st or 2nd round pick, but man, he is so skinny and weak. He was muscled around by Shawn Taggart, who is a 6'10" stringbean, before Taggart ran into foul trouble. Establishing good position in the post was an adventure on every possession. Jordan is pretty skilled, good passer, reasonably athletic, ok rebounder, he can run the floor and he shows a really solid jump hook, but until he adds strength he's going to be very limited. Made Memphis adjust some shots because of his shotblocking and length, especially down the stretch, but got seriously abused on the gamewinner when he absolutely should have come up with the block. He doesn't seem like a particularly talented shotblocker. I wouldn't really worry about his strength so much if he were a 19 year old frosh, but for a 22 year old junior...... I'm sure he can add some strength, but this may be who he is.

Tyreke Evans -- Some serious raw talent and great moves to the hoop, but a long way to go before he can really have a role in the NBA. Total knucklehead, and he shoots throwing from his forehead like a sixth grader. John Calipari actually has him running the point for lack of other options. At this point it almost seems like the odds are better that he becomes an And1 legend rather than a player to be taken seriously in the NBA.

Meanwhile, Ben Uzoh from Tulsa made some spectacular highlight reel plays. 6'3" super athletic combo guard, he can really fly and plays tough D, but not really a prospect.

 

[kings4lyfe32]

Dont know if anyone has mentioned this name around here but Jodie Meeks (guard from Kentucky) just went for 54 points, 6 rebounds, and 3 assists against Tennesee. Including 10 threes and also didnt have a single turnover. Any thoughts on this guy?

 

[nbrans]

So much for Meeks flying under the radar. Can't wait to watch that on DVR. He's a bit undersized at 6'4" and he's not the greatest athlete, but he can just do it all. He's particularly good at pulling up off the dribble. That's something you just can't teach. It will be interesting to see how his game translates to the NBA.

 

[SacKings7]

Dont know if anyone has mentioned this name around here but Jodie Meeks (guard from Kentucky) just went for 54 points, 6 rebounds, and 3 assists against Tennesee. Including 10 threes and also didnt have a single turnover. Any thoughts on this guy?

I don't know anything about him, but he's mentioned here in this article

After being plagued by injuries throughout his sophomore season, Jodie Meeks is having an absolutely outstanding junior year. Going from averaging a meager 8.8 points per game last season, he has nearly tripled his scoring average to 24.2 points per contest. Equally as impressive is the substantial improvement that he has shown across the board in the areas of field goal percentage (+15%), three point percentage (+10%), and free throw percentage (+11%).

Meeks is a bit on the small side for a shooting guard at only 6’4, and is not an exceptionally long player. Powerfully built, he owns very nice strength for a guard, but is not an elite athlete by any stretch. His lack of size, length, and athleticism will likely hurt him when evaluating how his physical tools may translate to the next level as an NBA draft prospect.

The bread and butter of the junior’s game is unquestionably his ability to shoot the ball from the perimeter. He is comfortable both coming off of screens and shooting from a standstill, getting the ball off with relative ease and doing a nice job of reading what the defense gives him. Meeks’ shot is fluid with a nice release, also having legit range beyond the NBA three point arc. He has established himself as arguably the top shooter in the SEC (along with Arkansas sniper Rotnei Clarke) and one of the elite shooters in the entire NCAA with his performance thus far this season. He currently ranks 3rd amongst all prospects in our database in 3-pointers made, and is the 12th best shooting guard in true shooting percentage.

Aside from Jodie’s ability to shoot the ball, his offensive game is fairly limited. He struggles to create separation off of the dribble, only possessing an average first step. Not coincidentally, he settles for a number of tough pull-up jumpers, though he very often makes them. The swingman’s limited ball-handling skills don’t particularly help him in this area either, as you will rarely see him get all the way to the rim in half court situations.

On the defensive end, there is a considerable amount of improvement that needs to be made if he’s to see minutes in the NBA. He is not incredibly quick laterally, and often finds himself completely out of position on this end of the hardwood. Meeks does a very nice job of getting in the passing lanes and creating deflections, although this is primarily due to his tendency to gamble so much defensively. This is an area of his game that he will need to work on considerably before he takes his game to the next level.

Meeks statistical production at the highest level of college basketball and perimeter shooting ability are two things that immediately make him a player to keep an eye on. Though he isn’t an elite draft prospect, he is certainly a player who will certainly be scrutinized by NBA teams. Should the NBA not work out, he is likely to have a very successful career in Europe, where his skills might be better appreciated.

 

[Kingster]

Collison is just the type pg I was taling about earlier in the thread. the best part is he plays defense.

He plays way too slow. Watch his off arm to see how many times he uses it to ward off the defender when he drives, which indicates that he doesn't create space from the college defender. It reminds me of the same thing Beno does when he has trouble penetrating. That's going to be a problem in the NBA. Also, he can't come off screens and shoot very well because of his awkward shooting motion. He needs to dribble the ball a lot to make things happen. I don't want him on the Kings. I wouldn't use the second #1 pick on him.
Teague>>Collison. And even though Holliday is raw, I'd take him over Collison. Higher ceiling.

 

[Kingster]

Somehow I get the feeling that the #1 pick in this draft isn't even gonna be in the top 5 best players to come out of this draft. This kinda reminds me of the Roy-Bargnani-Aldridge draft. I'm starting to change my mind on Blake Griffin, and I'm starting to like DeRozan and a few others a lot more

You and me both, brother. If we do end up picking in the 5-7 area, I'm not going to be crying. I think there are some players that will available that could be very good long term.

 

[nbrans]

He plays way too slow. Watch his off arm to see how many times he uses it to ward off the defender when he drives, which indicates that he doesn't create space from the college defender. It reminds me of the same thing Beno does when he has trouble penetrating. That's going to be a problem in the NBA. Also, he can't come off screens and shoot very well because of his awkward shooting motion. He needs to dribble the ball a lot to make things happen. I don't want him on the Kings. I wouldn't use the second #1 pick on him.
Teague>>Collison. And even though Holliday is raw, I'd take him over Collison. Higher ceiling.

I think that's an exaggeration. He's not on the level of Paul or Parker, but he's definitely quick. He does sometimes have his hand out, but he doesn't push off. He dribbles a lot, but that's the offense. He's basically called upon to create the points, either passing or shooting.

I also think the slowness of his release is exaggerated. When he needs to get a shot off he gets it off, as he did on a play as the shot clock was coming down against USC -- he came off a screen and hit a tough jumper. It's kind of a funny motion, but we've seen that work before, haven't we?

 

[wizards]

its funny u all think ur getting the #1 pick because Wiz fans think that too. imo there aren't really many studs in this draft, so maybe if you all want Griffin we could trade him to you along with some undesirable contract for Brad Miller and Salmons. the Wiz need another bruiser. since our 5s are: a poet, a 7 footer who only shoots threes, a rookie, out indefinitelty with wrist problems, and Darius rotfl Songaila.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

So... basically, we're just missing a poet?

 

[wizards]

So... basically, we're just missing a poet?

i highly doubt yall want Etan Thomas. he SUCKS. so does his slam poetry.

My favorite poem from Etan, directed toward Tom Knott of the Washington Times, after Tom bashed Gil and the contract:

The other day I was driving my hybrid through the dilapidated streets of Washington DC, searching for a place to park so that I could enjoy a serving of fresh falafel, free of slaughtered animals, when I encountered a copy of your "great republican" newspaper, serving as a bed-sheet to a homeless transient. Ironic, I thought, that it is Knott's blowhardiness serving to warm this disenfranchised soul. After offering my 20-oz jug of wheat grass juice to the man in exchange for his bedspread (he took 20 dollars instead), I read over your latest bashing of African Americans living in this country. How long will we have to live with your racism, Mr. Knott? My teammate Gilbert Arenas may not have the wherewithal to deliver me the rock when I am free on the low block, but he is true with his intentions as a business person in America. What is wrong with a brother looking to maximize his financial means?

lmfao

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Wheat-grass juice?

 

[Spike]

You're missing the point. I think that was an example of Mr. Etan Thomas as poetry in motion. We are hoping to run a motion offense, er go, Thomas would be a natural fit. However, and what our new poster fails to realize (welcome, btw.) is that we already have a Thomas, thereby exceeding the number of Thomases one can have on an NBA roster.

I, for one, am concerned that what we need may not be found in this draft. Time will tell. I'm not sure how I feel about the BPA theory just yet.

 

[bajaden]

So much for Meeks flying under the radar. Can't wait to watch that on DVR. He's a bit undersized at 6'4" and he's not the greatest athlete, but he can just do it all. He's particularly good at pulling up off the dribble. That's something you just can't teach. It will be interesting to see how his game translates to the NBA.

Hmmm! Sounds similar to James Harden.

 

[bajaden]

So... basically, we're just missing a poet?

Whats his shooting percentage on sonnets?

 

[nbrans]

Hmmm! Sounds similar to James Harden.

Indeed, they are very similar athletically and build-wise, atlhough I think Meeks is the more gifted scorer and Harden the more jack-of-all trades. I have concerns about both at the next level because both lack ideal height and athleticism, but because they bring such unique skills it will be interesting to see how they fare.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Caught some of those highlights of Meeks, he has a good looking form on his shot.

 

[nbrans]

Watching this Tennessee/Kentucky game from last night. Man, it's incredilbe, it was just like any other game for about 12 minutes, and Tennessee was playing Kentucky tough. Then all of a sudden Meeks just started going off. Bad bad (really really) colossally horrendous defense by Tennessee, first not playing him closely enough, and then playing him too closely and fouling him needlessly, then leaving him wide open again. Meeks looked really comfortable driving the lane and is almost Kevin Martin-esque at drawing cheap fouls. He didn't hesitate throwing up threes and they just kept going in. Didn't matter who was guarding him. He's got a great crossover and can pull up from anywhere, including from NBA 3 range. He also threw a sweet alley-oop to Patrick Patterson from outside the 3 point line.

Also, Tennessee is prety athletic, and Patterson had a seriously hard time with them inside, particularly with 6'9" Wayne Chism, who really worked him. Patterson is big and athletic, but I don't know about his NBA prospects.