and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...

Bricklayer · Feb 12, 2009

kf4l said:

If Kenyon Martin could not play defense he wouldn't have even been worth a damn. But he was the defensive player of the year his last year in college. Meanwhile Griffin's defense is the weakest part of his game.

Besides whihc, if Griffin is just going to be 15 and 8 we've already got a young PF who can probably reach those numbers. If you draft Griffin to this team, it would just have to be on the theory he is gong to be a star, otherwise its no real upgrade.

Warhawk · Feb 12, 2009

Bricklayer said:

Harden has neither the quickness nor handle to play the point. He's got good vision as an OG, but just no chance to use it to any great effect trying to bring the ball up against the darts. He and Kevin would be the worst ballhandling backcourt in basketball.

One point of interest in how this plays out on draft night is that Geoff, somewhat surprisingly given his finesse preferences everywhere else, seems to have always had a soft spot for power guards, whether it be Mitch (obviously inherited) Nick Anderson, Jimmy Jackson or Bonzi Wells (oe even BJax). Our GM is a strange duck -- wants his bigs to be soft, but seems to have an appreciation for guards who can dish it out.

Might make a little sense when you think about high posting bigs and slashing guards....

nbrans · Feb 12, 2009

Bricklayer said:

Agreed. Kenyon Martin without the defense is the consensus #1? Yikes. What a draft year. We're not lucky enough to get the #1, but if we do... TRADE. Teague and Thabeet are where it's at.

Bricklayer · Feb 12, 2009

Warhawk said:

Oh indeed...makes sense if you are a queer duck still reliving your glory days playing college ball in the bleeping Ivy Leagues (hey I went to an Ivy League school, but I am not so foolish as to suggest we should all be attempting to replicate their athletic prowess).

Vlade4GM · Feb 12, 2009

Ugh, that was a very disappointing game from Jrue. Barring something dramatically changing, he needs to stay in school. If the the draft is held right now, I want the Kings to walk away with Teague.

beb0p · Feb 12, 2009

Bricklayer said:

I beg to differ (the soft big part), Petrie has always had an affinity for the blue-collar type, be it guards or bigs. He drafted Brian Grant, Michael Smith, Gerald Wallace, and JT. He signed Frank Brickowski, Scott Pollard, Oliver Miller, Ostertag and Mikki Moore. I don't think our bigs are soft as much as they just suck, with the exception of Brad Miller, who is both soft and suck. But that's the point, Miller didn't start out as soft, certainly wasn't soft when Petrie traded for him.

Harden is definitely a Petrie type player for the obvious reasons, but Thabeet is a Petrie player too. Petrie always like those rebounder/shotblocker even if one kept eluding him. For similar reason, he'll probably like Jordan Hill too. (Notice I'm not predicting who he'll pick.) I know there are fans who scratched their heads at the selection of Patrick Ewing Jr. But it makes perfect sense. Ewing Jr., or at least EJr's type of athletic hustling 6th man, is exactly the type that make Petrie starry eyed.

Capt. Factorial · Feb 12, 2009

nbrans said:

Granted Griffin does not block shots like Kenyon Martin, but it's not fair to say that Kenyon is his peer in everything else. If you take Martin's senior year at Cincy (age 22, and by far his best college season) he had 18.9 pts, 9.7 rebounds and 1.4 assists. Griffin's sophomore year so far (age 19, turns 20 in a month) is looking like this: 22.1 pts, 13.8 rebounds, 2.5 assists. At 2.5 years younger, he's clearly got the upper hand in both rebounding and passing, and seems to be at least equal in scoring. He's blocking 1.4 shots per game instead of 3.4, but there's not a lot to suggest that Griffin won't be a better scorer and rebounder than Martin at the NBA level.

nbrans · Feb 12, 2009

Capt. Factorial said:

I don't think you can really compare the stats in that neat a fashion. They were different times in college basketball, and it's impossible to say, well, Griffin has better stats at X age so he is definitely going to be the better player. Martin was more explosive, he had a worse supporting cast, and he brought some awesome and imposing defense.

I mean, look at this highlight reel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn4u2EhaZDg

Griffin is the ultimate college garbage player. I'm not ruling out that Griffin will become a good player, even one better than Martin. But he is really going to have to develop his skills, and I don't think it's a sure thing that he will.

bajaden · Feb 12, 2009

Call me crazy, and I'm sure some of you will, but at some point in time, Harden will be a better player in the NBA than Martin is. I'm not saying he'll ever score more points per game, but that he'll have more impact on his team than Martin does.

People see what they want to see. If they're in love with a player, they see all the good things and not the bad. If they don't like a player for whatever reason, they ignore all the good things and point out anything they can find to pick on. I don't have a dog in this hunt. I just want the best player for the Kings. I think Harden is a very good basketball player, and more athletic than people think. He's a better ballhandler than some of you think. I actualy think he'll be a better player in the NBA, where the defense of the other team isn't directed right at him.

Think for a moment. Take Harden off of Arizona St's team and how many games do they win? Who else on that team just leaps out at you. He is the team. Just as Patrick Mills is the team with St. Mary's. He makes everyone else better. I'm not advocating that we pick Harden, but that we at least give him his due. He played a very good game. He's played better than any shooting guard that I can think of in the country all year, and yet, he can't jump high enough. He's not quick enough. He's not tall enough. He's not athletic enough. It's absoultely amazing he's been able to do all the things he's done with all those things going against him.

I think Harden is a special player. The Kings don't need another shooting guard, so I won't cry when they pick someone else. But I will enjoy following his career. And by the way, you don't need a 42" vertical jump to be special. Just ask Justin Williams.

Bricklayer · Feb 13, 2009

I won't call you crazy, because Harden has the much more rounded game, and that ability to see and set up teammates is a special skill. It could happen.

But the lack of ballhandling and athleticism are major obstacles to overcome. If you are Dwayne Wade/Brandon Roy, except slower and without a great handle, where does that leave you in the NBA? I actually like what the kid brings and will be watching to see how it turns out for him, but given that we already have a bird in the hand I don't see the point in us taking the chance unless we can turn that bird into a special player at another position before draft day.

KingsCitizen · Feb 13, 2009

I may jump on the Harden bandwagon....If and only if Petrie manages to get at least 3 excellent/all-star caliber players for moving Martin and the rest of the unneeded baggage. Otherwise, even if we trade Martin for another star we will most likely just return to our current sucking status even with the addition of the unproven Harden.

My opinion is trade/get for a vet pt. guard (Hinrich/Sessions), keep Martin, sign a good FA wing (Marion/M. Williams), draft that big Tanzanian as our top pick(The Gambit), draft Daye(with Houston's), draft another SG/PG in the second round , keep Thompson, keep Hawes, keep Garcia, keep Udrih. Trade Salmons, Brad, Thomas, and Moore for expirings and future draft picks.

Dustinlikestodance · Feb 13, 2009

What's good fellas. First post here. ^^ I mostly agree with you.

Here's my opinion:

1. Go after Sessions with a front-loaded deal/contract. If it looks like Milwaukee is making moves to keep Sessions (like moving Jefferson), go after Marvin Williams with another front loaded contract. I seriously doubt Atlanta will match that with Bibby, Smith, AND Johnson's contracts ending either this year or next.

2. If we land Sessions, draft Thabeet. If we land Williams, draft Rubio/Holiday. If we don't land either, we draft BPA (most likely Griffin or Harden).

3.Draft Terrence Williams with Houston's pick (may not be Houston;s if we decide to package it to get a F.A. or facilitate a trade). It's a reach, as he's projected to go in the second round, but IMO he'll DEF. go before our pick there.

4. Draft Dionte Christmas/ Craig Brackins with our 2nd round pick.

Disclaimer: This is all assuming Miller, Salmons,Thomas have been traded and maybe Beno/Moore as well for expirings/better contracts. We are just as likely to straight up trade for Sessions or M. Williams.

Rant is over. Hope it was a good first post and that I didn't offend many of you.

Capt. Factorial · Feb 13, 2009

Dustinlikestodance said:

Unfortunately the order is wrong here, because the draft happens before free agency.

hammystyle · Feb 13, 2009

nbrans said:

Fair enough...I think he's actually got the highest ceiling in the draft and he's the most likely to reach it.

I don't know how much everyone benches, but if you look at Griffin's build, who's more muscular than him at the PF spot? Boozer basically. There's probly 5-10 guys more quick and athletic. But that basically means no matter who he plays he will have either a strength or athleticism advantage and probably both. And he gives a crap.

Sptsjunkie · Feb 13, 2009

Dustinlikestodance said:

Welcome to the board. Nice first post. As Capt. Factoral pointed out, the draft happens before free agency, so we would need to tweak the order a bit. We also will need to make trades happen for expiring contracts to go after Sessions or Marvin Williams.

You'll make a lot of friend here though with your endorsement of Thabeet and Brackins. That would be one tough front line.

Dustinlikestodance · Feb 13, 2009

Ohhh my bad fellas. Okay, so changes to #2

2. Draft Thabeet if Milwaukee looks like they won't be able to keep Sessions (a la moving someone else). Draft Rubio/Holiday if Sessions looks like he's going to be locked up.

Oh, and then move #1 to the bottom after #4, because the draft does indeed come first.

I actually thought I was in the minority for wanting to draft Thabeet haha! Looking at that Houston game, their bigs just steamrolled us like every other big in the NBA. No interior defense at all. And not just the Houston game, but almost every single game, and I'm sure most of you have already noticed this. Thabeet can change that. I'm willing to wait for him to break out in 2-3 years.

Oh, and if people are worried that the Maloofs will move the team because there's not enough excitement to interest the fans, either Sessions, Rubio/Holiday, or M. Williams would bring enough flair to convince them to stick around. Thabeet, maybe not so much now, but potentially HUGE in the future. But then again, Kings fans are STARVING for interior defense. In fact, if he just blocks shots and doesn't play any fundamental defense at all (which I doubt), he'll still get fans rabid for more.

And I included the disclaimer in my previous post so that people would know that my plan would be illegitimate if we didn't end up getting some midmajor-major expiring's and unloading some of our worse contracts.

This forum is so friggin educated compared to the one at realgm haha! Love it!

Vlade4GM · Feb 14, 2009

I guess Thabeet had a big game. Got 25-21 with 9 blocks against seton hall.

I missed the 1st half of the g'town game. It's hard to get a gauge on Monroe offensively in g'towns offense, it seemed like they just refused to go through Monroe. Monroe got his points late in the game on drives and dishes mainly. What worries me most about Monroe (other than the lack of rebounding) is that he has too much of an Odom mentality in that it seems he'd always rather pass instead of score and he'd rather lay it up than throw it down with authority. That can be overcome though if more focus was put on him, but he needs to get more fire in him; attack the rim, go after rebounds, etc. If your'e thinking needs for the Kings, Monroe doesn't fit because he doesn't have that go-to mentality, and he doesn't provide the role playing skills that we lack in our frontcourt (rebounding, post defense.) From a BPA standpoint I think Monroe definitely has to be in the equation, he's got some of the best potential as an all-around player in the whole draft.

fnordius · Feb 14, 2009

hammystyle said:

Peter_Gibbons · Feb 14, 2009

Though there is a lot of talk of Blake Griffin may not be a franchise player, comparing to the rest of the class.... we would have to pick him at #1. James Harden is good but seems too much of a "solid" player to be a superstar.

Griffin just dropped a 40 pt, 23 reb game today.

HighTopKicks · Feb 14, 2009

fnordius said:

I don't remember the exact number, but Shelden had one of the highest number of bench presses of anyone in the last 5yrs. I believe it was in the low 20's.

jimbodan · Feb 14, 2009

So what's the story with Rubio? Will he be draft eligible this year or is he staying overseas another year?

Vlade4GM · Feb 14, 2009

jimbodan said:

He is draft eligible this year, but he's likely staying overseas because of a very expensive buyout in his contract.

nbrans · Feb 14, 2009

Iowa St./Oklahoma St.-

OSU came out fronting Brackins and doubling him as soon as he caught the ball, and he showed some very good passing out of the doubles. Made the right pass and Iowa St. got some good shots, but really struggled scoring in the first half other than a few times when he used his length to score inside. Really fought to get the ball in the 2nd Half and went to work with Iowa St. down. Hit a tough turnaround off the glass, a fadeaway in the lane, a runner and-one off the dribble, left-handed (!) jump hook in the lane, followed up a nice block by banking in a three (whoops), tough jumper across his body in the lane going to his left, drained a 3, and hit all 7 of his free throws. Just a huge variety of scoring moves.

Finished with 27/9 on 9-20 shooting, and a pretty good game, particularly considering the defense. He's good at using his jumping ability and long arms to snag tough rebounds.

James Anderson for OSU is a another sleeper I haven't really seen people talk about. He's averaging 17 points a game. He's a good but not super athlete, but he has good size for a shooting guard at 6'6", can really shoot and has some good moves to the hoop.

jimbodan · Feb 14, 2009

Vlade4GM said:

Thanks, although not the news I was hoping for

nbrans · Feb 14, 2009

UCLA/Arizona-

Man, Darren Collison looked awesome early, hitting outside shots, playing tough defense, and a nice breakaway dunk. He's really dialed back in after having a mid-season shooting slump, but wasn't really able to take command and get UCLA to slow it down and play their style -- UCLA willingly turned it into a Arizona scrap-fest, which obviously played to Zona's strengths. Hit some really tough shots though, including taking one in strong against Hill.

Jrue Holiday -- it's a broken record: great passing, solid defense, nothing quick/creative with the ball and very little scoring.

Hill - just way too big for UCLA's front line. Didn't always show great skill when got the ball and he had 5 turnovers, but he had some nice moves including a fadeaway in the lane and some good-looking jump hooks, not to mention some ferocious throwdowns. He definitely keeps improving. He has good touch around the hoop and this was a great dirty-work game, although his rebounding total was a liiiiiitle misleading considering he got at least 4 offensive rebounds off of his own point blank misses.

Budinger had a pretty scrappy game, slashing into the lane and hitting some outside shots. I don't really think he's a great prospect because he's so slow, but he sure does have good hops.

Gary · Feb 14, 2009

I think Holiday does well (not in the last couple games) with what his role has been on this UCLA team. He clearly looks to have more potential than Collison. Also, I believe that Holiday looks slow compared to others because he's so damn long.. He's like a miniature Mutumbo out there in re: to how long his arms are. They are freakishly long, and I think that makes him look slower than he actually is. When he wants to he is able to get around others, and has nice layup moves. Based on potential alone he's got to be a top 10.

If he sticks with UCLA one more year I wouldn't be surprised if he earns that top 10 draft position with his play next year.

MassachusettsKingsFan · Feb 14, 2009

Just wanted to stop in and back up Nbrans, Hill looked good today and pretty much dominated UCLA, who is steadily declining as a team. Im not really interested in anyone on that roster at this point.

I'd like to have a few more looks at hill. He is an interesting prospect, but I wouldnt consider him with a top 5 pick like some sites have him ranked.

The top prospects in this draft are starting to show something. Although the draft is weak overall, you have to be happy that were looking at the number 1 pick right now ( fingers crossed) .. Griffen and Thabeet had HUGE games today. Granted they were against weak opponents, you want that to happen.

nbrans · Feb 14, 2009

I think you have to give props to Collison though. The guy is having a terrific season, and I really wouldn't mind snagging him with Houston's pick if we can't get Brackins. I don't think it's a sure thing that Holiday has more potential than him at this point.

SacKings7 · Feb 14, 2009

Ok I am officially on the Thabeet bandwagon, but not just because of his monster game tonight, although it didn't hurt. I still want Rubio but I'm positive he isn't going to declare, so let's get Thabeet, and hopefully grab Collison with Houston's pick

kingsnation · Feb 14, 2009

THABEET. I can't believe the game he had today. Actually I can - the guy is a beast.

THABEAST.

I am hoping we can get him.

and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...

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