nbrans
All-Star
These two sentences are contradictory (and prove my point).
and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...
- Thread starter RiffRaff
- Start date
These two sentences are contradictory (and prove my point).
nbrans
All-Star
Ha - was just going to post this. Should be really interesting.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
First game I'll get to see of Harden. Haven't seen UCLA in a few weeks either. Looking forward to watching this one tomorrow once I get home from school.
hammystyle
Starter
Not really, Boozer does not have a "traditional" post game or a variety of post moves. He mostly uses his stregth to overpower opponents into a position on the post, then has great touch near the rim. Griffin will have similar strength advantages which is the key, and more athleticism. It remains to be seen whether he can match the touch around the rim.
Griffin will still be stronger and more athletic than most of the guys in the league next year. I'm not saying he's a HOFer, but he's a legit prospect with upside and without nearly as many flaws as the rest of the top 10. He'd be top 3 or 4 in almost any draft...not many other guys like that.
Gary
All-Star
^^ agree.. A good touch around the basket is not considered post play hehe. It's considered a good touch around the basket. Like tip ins, and rebounding with strength and position. I got what you were trying to say. It's not an actual set play that Boozer thrives on. It's more of the down and dirty type inside put backs and positioning in order to grab a quick dunk or lay in.
Gary
All-Star
I think Holiday will play decent D, but he does tend to be a bit over aggressive at times so I am thinking there might be foul trouble for Holiday in this game. So I am not going to watch how much Harden goes for points wise because a lot of the scoring might not be against Holiday. I am going to keep an eye on how Holiday has improved in moving without the ball. He has had issues because he's normally the guy with the ball. But it's essential that he improves there. Also, I want to see Holiday play more when Collison is on the bench. The last couple games I have seen Collison and Holiday were out at the same time. One of them though I believe Holiday had foul trouble though so it was not a big deal.
nbrans
All-Star
I actually don't think Griffin is as strong as a lot of the bigs in the NBA, including and especially Boozer, but it's hard to judge without seeing him go up against those players.
I think you undersell Boozer's post game. Overpowering guys and showing good touch around the hoop is pretty much precisely what a post game is. Boozer can either hit the 15 footer or take it inside and score around the hoop, either with fadeaways or jump hooks.
Griffin's game right now is basically get the ball and dunk it. He shows some flashes of more, including a jump shot, but nothing is consistent and Oklahoma isn't generally able to dump the ball down for him to score when they need a hoop, even when he's not being double-teamed.
Don't get me wrong, I still think Griffin is a very good prospect, I just don't know if he has as high a ceiling as some of the other players in the draft, and until he learns some more skilled moves offensively I think he's much more David Lee than Carlos Boozer.
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nbrans
All-Star
Louisville/Notre Dame-
Uh... did Louisville stay up too late partying in South Bend or something?
It seems that Terrence Williams has resumed "mere mortal" status after playing out of his mind for a few games earlier this season and in particular looking like a potenttial star against UConn. Just couldn't get anything going at all. His point total the last 5 games: 5, 8, 26 (UConn), 3, 5. Yikes. His jump shot looked horrible. Spent a lot of the time just standing around. They said he has a bruise on his arm, but... I don't know. He looked more like I remembered from earlier in the season. Really athletic, but can just fade into the background sometimes.
Clark: If only this guy could shoot. I can't emphasize this enough. The guy is just a horrendous shooter. He's quick, he's athletic, he's tall, he's skilled, he can rebound... he just can't hit the broad side of a barn. Couldn't even hit a free throw. Any time the ball goes in it looks like pure luck. He's Julian Wright all over again (and no, that's not an endorsement in my book).
Harangody looked pretty good out there, just too crafty for Louisville's bigs, hitting all sorts of running hooks and fadeaways.
Uh... did Louisville stay up too late partying in South Bend or something?
It seems that Terrence Williams has resumed "mere mortal" status after playing out of his mind for a few games earlier this season and in particular looking like a potenttial star against UConn. Just couldn't get anything going at all. His point total the last 5 games: 5, 8, 26 (UConn), 3, 5. Yikes. His jump shot looked horrible. Spent a lot of the time just standing around. They said he has a bruise on his arm, but... I don't know. He looked more like I remembered from earlier in the season. Really athletic, but can just fade into the background sometimes.
Clark: If only this guy could shoot. I can't emphasize this enough. The guy is just a horrendous shooter. He's quick, he's athletic, he's tall, he's skilled, he can rebound... he just can't hit the broad side of a barn. Couldn't even hit a free throw. Any time the ball goes in it looks like pure luck. He's Julian Wright all over again (and no, that's not an endorsement in my book).
Harangody looked pretty good out there, just too crafty for Louisville's bigs, hitting all sorts of running hooks and fadeaways.
Sigh...were he only 3 inches taller.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
The more I watch Jrue, the more I wonder if the people that like him actually watch him play .. he continues to show nothing. The very occasional 'flash' of good play scares me, and to be honest, I really hope we dont pick him at this point.
Sptsjunkie
Starter
I agree. I still hope my Bruins pull this one out, but this should pretty effectively end the Holliday-Harden debate. Harden is only one year older, but is owning this game. Holliday is a non-factor offensively. He has some base skills, but I am concerned as always he doesn not have the physical tools to be a star player. At the very least he still needs a lot more development.
It looks like Harden is too slow and an average ball handler to beat the defenders off the dribble, but somehow, someway, he penetrates and makes things happen. He sets up his teammates every well(10AS today). He gets sloppy often because he's not a good ball handler, but he can improve it easily IMO. He has very long range, and also he can create his own offense. Not sure if he is a good defender because ASU played zone.
He just dominated the game from start to end. If we get #2 pick in the draft and Rubio is not coming, then Harden is my pick.
He just dominated the game from start to end. If we get #2 pick in the draft and Rubio is not coming, then Harden is my pick.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Harden is another x-factor for us (and Holiday just has to be slipping down the Top 10 at this point -- its all potential, if that, at this point). But for us, Griffin (active young rebounding but shaky defense pure PF) and Harden (pure OG) are clearly 2 of the top 5 prospects in the draft this year, but also guys who play positions that we have covered with our best younger players. I do think Harden does a lot of things Kevin does not -- and the vision and ability to create for others combined with that Mitch Richmondesque body are intriguing, but are you really going to swap out a proven 20ppg scorer on the hope that the guy you draft might be one some day too? Nor can they really play together -- both are pure OGs for different reasons -- Kevin lacks the ballhandling to play the point or the strength/oughness ot play SF, and Harden lacks the quickness/height.
nbrans
All-Star
UCLA/ASU-
Don't know why UCLA came out double-teaming Pendergraph and Harden. First off, Pendergraph isn't really much of a post threat. And Harden wasn't really penetrating against Holiday. So why give ASU a bunch of open threes by double-teaming? Come on, Ben Howland. ASU dialed in, and UCLA started in a hole.
Harden: The best thing about him is his vision. He really makes things happen with his passing and just knows where to make the right pass. UCLA keyed on him and he just picked them apart. He's a really crafty finisher and can score inside even on bigs.
But I still question how his game is going to translate to the NBA. He's just not very quick and explosive. He was able to muscle in sometimes against Holiday and he makes things happen because he's such a smart player, but none of that is going to come easily in the NBA. How is he going to get his points?
Still like Pendergraph with a 2nd Rounder. He makes things happen.
Collison: seriously pesky defense and really kept UCLA in it in the first half despite a complete no-show by Holiday and plenty of stupidity by Shipp.
Holiday: Um, just forget it. Guy is not ready, and I think it's becoming increasingly clear that he was overhyped. Time to move on until next year. 0 points. 0.
Don't know why UCLA came out double-teaming Pendergraph and Harden. First off, Pendergraph isn't really much of a post threat. And Harden wasn't really penetrating against Holiday. So why give ASU a bunch of open threes by double-teaming? Come on, Ben Howland. ASU dialed in, and UCLA started in a hole.
Harden: The best thing about him is his vision. He really makes things happen with his passing and just knows where to make the right pass. UCLA keyed on him and he just picked them apart. He's a really crafty finisher and can score inside even on bigs.
But I still question how his game is going to translate to the NBA. He's just not very quick and explosive. He was able to muscle in sometimes against Holiday and he makes things happen because he's such a smart player, but none of that is going to come easily in the NBA. How is he going to get his points?
Still like Pendergraph with a 2nd Rounder. He makes things happen.
Collison: seriously pesky defense and really kept UCLA in it in the first half despite a complete no-show by Holiday and plenty of stupidity by Shipp.
Holiday: Um, just forget it. Guy is not ready, and I think it's becoming increasingly clear that he was overhyped. Time to move on until next year. 0 points. 0.
Hell YEAH! Why not? If we get #2 or #3 pick in the draft, Harden should be picked and Kevin should be traded. Look, I know many of you like Martin, but he won't be an all star nor a player that can carry the team to the playoff. I'm not saying Harden can, but atleast Harden can create his own shots, makes his teammates much much better. I would rather have 18PPG,5APG,5RPG(Roylike?) than 24PPG,2APG,3RPG guy. I'm telling you 18PPG,5APG,5RPG guy will make his team better than 24PPG, 2APG, 3RPG guy. Also Harden can play much much much better defense
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
No doubt harden is talented.
However, I only see us grabbing a player like that if we somehow trade kevin martin, and we were already told that wasnt going to happen.
I mean, if there is one kind of player this team didnt need (aside from another jump shooting big man ), its a player like harden. Again, I like him, but he doesnt fit. If it turns out his stock goes crazy high, and he is clearly the BPA at #2 ( assuming we dont get #1 and take griffin ) then we should probly trade the pick .. thats the only situation were I really see trading the pick as the best option.
However, I only see us grabbing a player like that if we somehow trade kevin martin, and we were already told that wasnt going to happen.
I mean, if there is one kind of player this team didnt need (aside from another jump shooting big man ), its a player like harden. Again, I like him, but he doesnt fit. If it turns out his stock goes crazy high, and he is clearly the BPA at #2 ( assuming we dont get #1 and take griffin ) then we should probly trade the pick .. thats the only situation were I really see trading the pick as the best option.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
It's like deja vu. A lot of the same things were said when Petrie drafted Francisco Garcia. "Cisco and Kevin play the same position" "yadda yadda yadda". Just like with Cisco and Kevin, I think Harden and Kevin could play together. Harden could run the point on offense and Martin could guard the PG on defense. He's probably best when defending them anyway.
I don't see Harden playing PG. His ball handling isn't that good. He can improve it, but not to PG like. Harden could play PG roll like Garcia, but not longer than 5mins IMO.
nbrans
All-Star
Hell YEAH! Why not? If we get #2 or #3 pick in the draft, Harden should be picked and Kevin should be traded. Look, I know many of you like Martin, but he won't be an all star nor a player that can carry the team to the playoff. I'm not saying Harden can, but atleast Harden can create his own shots, makes his teammates much much better. I would rather have 18PPG,5APG,5RPG(Roylike?) than 24PPG,2APG,3RPG guy. I'm telling you 18PPG,5APG,5RPG guy will make his team better than 24PPG, 2APG, 3RPG guy. Also Harden can play much much much better defense
This is so absurd I spent the last five minutes trying to figure out if you were kidding or not.
kf4l
G-League
lol same thing here. Why would we trade a proven player maybe potential allstar in Martin to draft a guy who seems like a solid prospect but hasn't even played an NBA game yet.
The kings wing positions are solid if not impressive with Martin a big time scorer and Garcia comming off the bench with energy and scoring. What we really need is a shot blocker and pg.
well, I'm not liking what I'm seeing from K-Mart and this team so....
nbrans
All-Star
I'm not opposed to trading KMart in the right deal, but you'd better be sure you're replacing him with something. You don't declare a 6'4" shooting guard with shaky athleticism the future of the franchise before he's played a single game.
I wouldn't even be opposed to drafting a SG or SF in this draft if there were a clear-cut talent/potential difference between, say, Harden, and some of the PGs or Cs. But when all question-marks are equal, which I think they are, I think you have to draft for need because the rookie is going to have the best chance at getting minutes and thriving. Kind of pointless to draft Harden when he's just going to play 10 minutes a game behind KMart.
kf4l
G-League
I'm just curious as to what you don't like about Kevin Martin and I don't think its fair to blame most of the team's struggle on Kevin Martin. You could put a star like Dwayne Wade in place of martin on this team and we still wouldn't be much better.
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Harden looks like Brandon Roy without the handle. And considering so much of what Roy is able to do relies on his handle, I'm not sure how that's going to work out. It looks like he needs a lot of work to even be average for a SG in the NBA much less a combo guard. That being said, he did a terrific job setting up his teammates today. But all those assists are somewhat negated by the 8 turnovers. I wouldn't do anything as drastic as trading Kevin and then hoping Harden can take his place.
I didn't say Harden could be a francise player. I just believe that Harden could be a better player FOR the team than Martin is now. You are right tough. I was really hyped after watching how well Harden played today. We do need PG and C. It's just there is no strong player that I like to have in this year's draft unlike last two years, Durant, Oden, Rose. It's very irritating.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Harden has neither the quickness nor handle to play the point. He's got good vision as an OG, but just no chance to use it to any great effect trying to bring the ball up against the darts. He and Kevin would be the worst ballhandling backcourt in basketball.
One point of interest in how this plays out on draft night is that Geoff, somewhat surprisingly given his finesse preferences everywhere else, seems to have always had a soft spot for power guards, whether it be Mitch (obviously inherited) Nick Anderson, Jimmy Jackson or Bonzi Wells (oe even BJax). Our GM is a strange duck -- wants his bigs to be soft, but seems to have an appreciation for guards who can dish it out.
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