Analyzing the Murray pick (Split from the Welcome thread)

[Albatros]

Always kinda liked Ham back in his cowbell kingdom days. Guess he's gotten bitter with age cos something seemed wrong on that podcast.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Ok I'm officially on the Murray train. After contemplating life the last two days, he was the better choice. Not the flashy choice but the better player for our team right now.

"Hes not the player we Need, but he's the player we deserve "

 

[Rob-The-Great]

I just hope the Kings Start him day 1 instead of this bring him along slowly crap I've been accustomed too that never pan out for the Kings

 

[MizzouKing]

Jimmer's career may have been different if he were 6'8 with a 6'11 wingspan

And not spending his rookie season with the overwhelming toxicity of DMC.

 

[upinsmoke]

Always kinda liked Ham back in his cowbell kingdom days. Guess he's gotten bitter with age cos something seemed wrong on that podcast.

I did too but now hes seems to be trying to portray himself as something hes not. Maybe I'm not contextualizing it the right way but I'm definitely not a fan of his anymore. I used to really look forward to his Friday podcast a few years back.

 

[KainLear]

Ham going HAM. Key is Sean Cunningham agreeing with him.

Media is self righteous and have tremendous ego's. I mentioned before that cutting out the media would not be in the Kings best interest. Everything going to Woj and nothing to locals will kill PR in your own town.

James Ham is in the process of switching from the puppy dog reporter who was supposed to just say what he was told and nothing else, to a sports pundit. And in this day and age, many would consider "Skip Bayless" and "Stephen A Smith" successful sports pundits to copy from.

So long story short, I think he is doing exactly what he thinks a pundit's job is, just as Ozymandias here putting it elegantly:

The Medias job is not to inform you, its to sell you.. They love to "set expectations" and then "revisit them" n try to drag in suckers into a never ending whirlpool of half-baked narrative bias..

Just like many of us here, he sets expectations with his limited scope, basing it on his own experience, and then when the people in charge aren't doing exactly according to the "expectation" he set, he can now use his platform (forums, podcasts, tv shows etc) to tell the rest of the world how wrong their decisions were, by revisiting the preexisting expectation he set as if it was now being spoken enough to be treated as facts, completely ignoring how closely involved and thus how much more extra information the person in charge can have.


It's why I always say, sports pundit is one of the best jobs in the world, where you can be loud and obnoxious with any and all of the points you make, and never have to suffer from consequences of being wrong or the aforementioned "loud and obnoxious".

 

[sactowndog]

From my perspective he's been slowly improving the whole time but he gets blamed for everything that goes wrong. I think his early mistake was not listening to the basketball people when he should have, followed by hiring bad basketball people and listening to them.

For better or worse he seems to be listening to Monte, so let's just hope he got this coach and pick right.

i think Vivek is still involved in basketball decisions behind the scenes and impacting the basketball operations. I think the constant selling of 2nd round picks is a result of him. I also think trades haven’t happened due to Vivek and his insistence on trying to make the play-offs no matter how long the odds.

 

[sactowndog]

James Ham is in the process of switching from the puppy dog reporter who was supposed to just say what he was told and nothing else, to a sports pundit. And in this day and age, many would consider "Skip Bayless" and "Stephen A Smith" successful sports pundits to copy from.

So long story short, I think he is doing exactly what he thinks a pundit's job is, just as Ozymandias here putting it elegantly:



Just like many of us here, he sets expectations with his limited scope, basing it on his own experience, and then when the people in charge aren't doing exactly according to the "expectation" he set, he can now use his platform (forums, podcasts, tv shows etc) to tell the rest of the world how wrong their decisions were, by revisiting the preexisting expectation he set as if it was now being spoken enough to be treated as facts, completely ignoring how closely involved and thus how much more extra information the person in charge can have.


It's why I always say, sports pundit is one of the best jobs in the world, where you can be loud and obnoxious with any and all of the points you make, and never have to suffer from consequences of being wrong or the aforementioned "loud and obnoxious".

Their criticism of what the Kings did with their 2nd round pick was right on.

 

[KainLear]

Their criticism of what the Kings did with their 2nd round pick was right on.

Well...

According to what? Did you get any facts to support that statement?

(PS: Sorry... in case that sounded too confrontational. I just wanted to ask if you have any facts that can support their criticism. )

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Average fan is still getting plenty. It’s just not coming from traditional outlets. Guys like Kings Film Room are providing insightful breakdowns of players and schemes on Twitter and YouTube. Others like the Daily Sabonis are hosting Twitter spaces and boosting Kings content via memes and discussion. My dude Jrue is out here posting in-depth player/coach breakdowns one moment and then breaking the internet with absolutely ridiculous crapposts the next. Deuce and Mo just did a twelve hour livestream of the entire draft. There is more good content out there for the average fan to enjoy than ever (There are even two whole sports radio networks with local programming on in Sacramento alone), it’s just not coming from the guys getting paid to cover the team/trying to justify still having active press credentials despite having been let go by NBC a year ago.

Being out of market I have to agree that the content is out there. We have choices and calling yourself the insider without credible inside dirt and repeating stale analysis doesn't endear one to a loyal audience when there are guys breaking down tapes with a high level understanding of Xs and Os that an opinion based reporter just can't bring.

 

[KainLear]

Being out of market I have to agree that the content is out there. We have choices and calling yourself the insider without credible inside dirt and repeating stale analysis doesn't endear one to a loyal audience when there are guys breaking down tapes with a high level understanding of Xs and Os that an opinion based reporter just can't bring.

I agree with this sentiment 1000%. It's not much but the well-studied content is definitely out there.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Their criticism of what the Kings did with their 2nd round pick was right on.

I don't think it was frankly.

Ham keeps insisting that we have tons of roster space, we actually don't. We have a crap ton of expiring contracts that need to be moved, we do have both of our two-way spots in use, and I am almost certain Brown was promised the opportunity to go after some free agents he has connections to. Ham talks a lot about how we need ~3 guys that can step in and play now as part of a core 8 man rotation and then says we need to go after players we can stash. Unfortunately you can only stash guys once you have enough guys to actually play.

He talks a lot about how Sacramento isn't a free agent destination, and he's correct that we don't make splashy signings. But guys like Richaun Holmes can come in and make an immediate impact that a guy who left college 2 years to early can't and I think if Brown has a list of targets from his previous jobs in GS and Nigeria those are worth pursuing.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

i think Vivek is still involved in basketball decisions behind the scenes and impacting the basketball operations. I think the constant selling of 2nd round picks is a result of him. I also think trades haven’t happened due to Vivek and his insistence on trying to make the play-offs no matter how long the odds.

We also just made the splashiest coaching hire we've made since he arrived, had a huge 4th overall pick on draft night, and brought the player into town yesterday and had a big presser for him today and Vivek is nowhere to be seen.

It is actually possible Monte is calling the shots.

I mean Vivek just made his daughter go work in Stockton and learn the game from the ground up, if he was scheming the way people think he is, she'd have been making the second round picks Thursday night because those kids are going to wind up in Stockton anyways.

 

[sactowndog]

I don't think it was frankly.

Ham keeps insisting that we have tons of roster space, we actually don't. We have a crap ton of expiring contracts that need to be moved, we do have both of our two-way spots in use, and I am almost certain Brown was promised the opportunity to go after some free agents he has connections to. Ham talks a lot about how we need ~3 guys that can step in and play now as part of a core 8 man rotation and then says we need to go after players we can stash. Unfortunately you can only stash guys once you have enough guys to actually play.

He talks a lot about how Sacramento isn't a free agent destination, and he's correct that we don't make splashy signings. But guys like Richaun Holmes can come in and make an immediate impact that a guy who left college 2 years to early can't and I think if Brown has a list of targets from his previous jobs in GS and Nigeria those are worth pursuing.

To pass on Hardy and sign the Alabama kid will be a poor decision.

 

[sactowndog]

Well...

According to what? Did you get any facts to support that statement?

(PS: Sorry... in case that sounded too confrontational. I just wanted to ask if you have any facts that can support their criticism. )

yes I think multiple teams think Hardy or some others were worth developing at 37. Trading that pick for 2 Dallas seconds is a repeat of Trent Jr. and Tillman.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

To pass on Hardy and sign the Alabama kid will be a poor decision.

Save for the magnificence of one Luka Doncic the Dallas organization has been in free fall since Dirk retired. Every other org also passed on Hardy it seems and there is likely a good reason.

Incidentally, a real "insider" would know why

 

[SacTownKid]

Reading between the lines I think here's how it worked out. Monte was in love with Murray from the start and way before the draft process started. The reason no players were considered and brought in was because his mind was made up. Now, this is a problem in some ways but if he's that sold on his peoples talent evaulation then cool. However, that's bit this franchise before. The negative side could say WTF, stay flexible, make moves, be aggressive and don't play your cards that far out in the open. Monte basically had one option to trade back and still get Murray, so the trade thing was basically a 2% chance and as soon as it was known that Murray was hanging around with this franchise guys it was over. The Pistons were feeling great. The moved Grant elsewhere and got the guy they wanted. The key now is to not treat Murray like the new Metu/Lyles. Let him perform. I think he and Harrison could really work together moving on as system guys. If they don't then moves are still possible.

 

[Kings49ers]

To pass on Hardy and sign the Alabama kid will be a poor decision.

While I agree passing on the opportunity to add a player such as Hardy at 37 was pretty foolish, I think Keon Ellis was an amazing add as a UDFA. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s seeing minutes sooner rather than later.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Reading between the lines I think here's how it worked out. Monte was in love with Murray from the start and way before the draft process started. The reason no players were considered and brought in was because his mind was made up..

I see it differently. I believe McNair and his staff trust the longterm work they‘ve done scouting all these players and don’t feel the need to allow private workouts to possibly interfere/override the countless hours of actual game footage they’ve already poured over.

They’ve seen plenty on the majority of the top level guys. The prospects they tend to bring in most are those they haven’t had the time to scout near as in-depth if at all.

 

[Kingster]

It is, indeed. Most strong, well-organized NBA front offices engage in processes that exist a world apart from the punditry and armchair GM'ing. They don't abandon their process because of "consensus." They don't ignore their process because of fear of ridicule. Like all Kings fans, I'm tired of the losing. But even more than the losing, I'm tired of feeling like the franchise is rudderless, unstable, and driven by petty internal power struggles. Since Monte McNair's hiring, I feel much more confident that the Kings have both direction and stability, and that they are driven by a desire to win above all else. Will they reach the playoffs before Vivek gets impatient enough or bored enough to can yet another GM? I don't know. But I am relieved by the feeling that there are adults in the room, that they're running the show, and that they can deliver results if given the time to see their process through.

I'd feel a lot better about the McNair vision if I could understand how their so-called stable process driven to win caused them to trade their 37th pick in the 2nd round for a 2024 and a 2028 second rounder. 2028? You've got to be freaking kidding me. Seriously, why not 2038? If you want a make an impression, then go for it, baby! Was the rationale for that move based on a baby boom in 2009 that is expected to to cause a demographic surge in 2028 causing there to be the deepest draft in the history of the NBA? If someone could give me a coherent reasonable explanation for that trade I would feel a lot more confident in McNair and his process. As of now, I'm hanging on the train by my pinky while it speeds down the tracks.

 

[SacTownKid]

I see it differently. I believe McNair and his staff trust the longterm work they‘ve done scouting all these players and don’t feel the need to allow private workouts to possibly interfere/override the countless hours of actual game footage they’ve already poured over.

They’ve seen plenty on the majority of the top level guys. The prospects they tend to bring in most are those they haven’t had the time to scout near as in-depth if at all.

Well almost every single NBA team sees that process differently too. I agree though, but still, getting guys in can be a pipeline down the line in a lot of ways.

 

[Tetsujin]

Thread

https://twitter.com/x/status/1540806048981737473

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Well almost every single NBA team sees that process differently too. I agree though, but still, getting guys in can be a pipeline down the line in a lot of ways.

For what it's worth, the process that the Kings followed is supposedly Morey's process as well.

It's also worth noting that the Kings did bring in other guys, most of them were some type of PF archetype, it seems they weren't interested in drafting someone who is primarily a guard.

 

[Tetsujin]

Another thing that's gone completely unmentioned is how Keegan's only missed one game in two years.

As with all injury stuff, a lot of that is probably luck but hypothetically, the Kings have acquired 10+ points for every single game going forward.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

i ain’t gonna feel bad about the kings not getting some dude that didn’t wanna be here.. Even if Ivey does end up the better player.

Keegan on the other hand wants to resurrect this team, and just seems to have super positive energy like Hali. You can’t deny his talent, versatility and potential. I know i said he was soft but Tim Duncan also had that demeanour on the court.. and look how great he was. Im happy with the draft and hopefully monte can add another player like OG or Huerter. Hyped for next season.

 

[SacTownKid]

For what it's worth, the process that the Kings followed is supposedly Morey's process as well.

It's also worth noting that the Kings did bring in other guys, most of them were some type of PF archetype, it seems they weren't interested in drafting someone who is primarily a guard.

I don't think Morey ever had a pick this high. He was known to trade some picks though.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don't think Morey ever had a pick this high. He was known to trade some picks though.

The philosophy was supposedly that they get all their information on these guys during the season and the pre-draft stuff is really just a distraction that might tip their hand. I actually believe that, whether or not it's the right way to go is something different.

But it is a separate thing than Ham and others baselessly speculating that Monte passes over guys that don't kiss his ring. We didn't work out Haliburton or Mitchell. Mitchell in fact had no clue he was a target and seemed really confused when we drafted him, but I get the impression that he is fairly happy so far?

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Always kinda liked Ham back in his cowbell kingdom days. Guess he's gotten bitter with age cos something seemed wrong on that podcast.

He's become sick and tired of this organization. As most of us would, if we had to cover them for over a decade of their nonsense

 

[pdxKingsFan]

He's become sick and tired of this organization. As most of us would, if we had to cover them for over a decade of their nonsense

That's not exactly the whole story. James is mad that as the self proclaimed "Kings Insider" he is no longer privy to inside dirt because Monte cut all the leaks out. James doesn't care about the Kings, James cares about James.

For years we've heard from the folks who worked on the Bigger than Basketball and Crown Downtown projects what James was like to work with and we've had to take them at their word.

Yesterday, on his post draft podcast, in his airing of grievances, Ham actually claimed that he doesn't really care about Monte, if he wants to tank his own career that's his prerogative, but he's very upset that he is ruining other people's livelihoods in the process. And in case you weren't sure what that meant, he cleared it up by stating that as a direct result of the Kings sucking and losing fan engagement poor little James lost his TV job.

Seriously, he said this. Out loud.

F* James Ham. The Kings were always a vehicle for him to feed whatever need it was for him to be a big man about town and the well has run dry.

 

[midtowner]

That's not exactly the whole story. James is mad that as the self proclaimed "Kings Insider" he is no longer privy to inside dirt because Monte cut all the leaks out. James doesn't care about the Kings, James cares about James.

For years we've heard from the folks who worked on the Bigger than Basketball and Crown Downtown projects what James was like to work with and we've had to take them at their word.

Yesterday, on his post draft podcast, in his airing of grievances, Ham actually claimed that he doesn't really care about Monte, if he wants to tank his own career that's his prerogative, but he's very upset that he is ruining other people's livelihoods in the process. And in case you weren't sure what that meant, he cleared it up by stating that as a direct result of the Kings sucking and losing fan engagement poor little James lost his TV job.

Seriously, he said this. Out loud.

F* James Ham. The Kings were always a vehicle for him to feed whatever need it was for him to be a big man about town and the well has run dry.

He did say that. But he did have a point. I’m pissed Mr. Jason Jones doesn’t cover the Kings for the Athletic anymore. And it’s because our team has been crap for too long.