BawLa
Starter
Well that sucks for us, unless of course if they do see the value of Bibby with CWebb.
Allen Iverson thread - DAY TWO
- Thread starter nbrans
- Start date
Well that sucks for us, unless of course if they do see the value of Bibby with CWebb.
BawLa
Starter
A fair point, but everything you've said recently has been covered....like 24 hours ago.
Sixers aren't getting both Martin/Garcia. That's ridiculous. If anything they're getting one, and from what I've read and what I would guess - it'd be Garcia. If it's Martin then were getting Iguodala back. But that hasn't been talked/rumored about since 2 days ago.
It's not like Garcia will have much of a bigger role there than here. They have..
- Carney (bench SG/SF, future starter at SF/SG)
- Korver (was bench, but for now starter, future bench SF/SG)
- Iguodala (starting SG, plays significant, regular minutes at SF and PG too)
- Green (regular bench SG/PG)
- Louis Williams (SG/PG that will get minutes now, R2 pick in 2005 they like)
There already.
I don't think it's a wide open race, from all that I've read variously over the last day and a half... I'd say it goes 1. Kings - 2. Warriors -- 3. Celts 4. Clips -------- then everyone else.
It's not like Garcia will have much of a bigger role there than here. They have..
- Carney (bench SG/SF, future starter at SF/SG)
- Korver (was bench, but for now starter, future bench SF/SG)
- Iguodala (starting SG, plays significant, regular minutes at SF and PG too)
- Green (regular bench SG/PG)
- Louis Williams (SG/PG that will get minutes now, R2 pick in 2005 they like)
There already.
I don't think it's a wide open race, from all that I've read variously over the last day and a half... I'd say it goes 1. Kings - 2. Warriors -- 3. Celts 4. Clips -------- then everyone else.
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Yeah, but I wonder if we can expect people just jumping in to go back and read over 270 comments in this thread and over 470 in the old one first.
Jespher
Starter
Three Way With Indiana too
So I've been having fun playing with ESPN's trade machine, thinking that Iverson's situation can really go in the Kings favor even if they don't actually land him. A fun 3 team trade I came up with has Iverson and Steven Hunter going to the Pacers, Bibby, Martin, and KT to the 76ers, and Igoudala, Tinsley, Stephen Jackson, Granger, and Jeff Foster heading to the Kings. It would work with the cap and each team would get better from it.
The Kings would get Granger and Foster for front court help(repacing KT), along with another starting pointguard with Bibby leaving (Tinsley). They would have to take the cancerous Jackson, but he gets along well with Artest, so hopefully that would work, and he is a great all around player, nice shooter, and good D. Igoudala also would improve our defense and would replace Martin with his explosiveness. We'd get more athletic, more defensively tough, and deeper. Kings lose 3 starters and get 5 back.
The Pacers would lose some depth, but would acquire a superstar in Iverson, along with Hunter to help their front court losses. They'd still have nice bench support with Jasekevscis, Marquis Daniels, and David Harrington. Their starters would be some of the best in the league, Jermaine O'Neal, Allen Iverson, Al Harrington makes for great trio.
The 76ers get talent back for a superstar (Iverson) in Mike Bibby, and Kevin Martin, for Igoudala. They have cap relief if Bibby does decide to opt out, and they have an up and comming talent in K$ to excite their crowd. They also don't lose much up front, getting a scrappy Kenny Thomas, whom they initially overpaid to begin with back to help their bench, or play next to Webber. 76ers lose 2 starters and get 3 back.
Overall it's painful to think of Kings life without Martin and Bibby, but it would give our front court the kick in the pants it needs, it would improve our depth at every position but maybe the point guard, and would make us much more athletic and defensively tough. Think east coast mid 90s D. If D is the way the Maloofs are heading to rebuild this team on the fly, then it makes sense to part ways with Bibby because he is such a liability on that end.
So I've been having fun playing with ESPN's trade machine, thinking that Iverson's situation can really go in the Kings favor even if they don't actually land him. A fun 3 team trade I came up with has Iverson and Steven Hunter going to the Pacers, Bibby, Martin, and KT to the 76ers, and Igoudala, Tinsley, Stephen Jackson, Granger, and Jeff Foster heading to the Kings. It would work with the cap and each team would get better from it.
The Kings would get Granger and Foster for front court help(repacing KT), along with another starting pointguard with Bibby leaving (Tinsley). They would have to take the cancerous Jackson, but he gets along well with Artest, so hopefully that would work, and he is a great all around player, nice shooter, and good D. Igoudala also would improve our defense and would replace Martin with his explosiveness. We'd get more athletic, more defensively tough, and deeper. Kings lose 3 starters and get 5 back.
The Pacers would lose some depth, but would acquire a superstar in Iverson, along with Hunter to help their front court losses. They'd still have nice bench support with Jasekevscis, Marquis Daniels, and David Harrington. Their starters would be some of the best in the league, Jermaine O'Neal, Allen Iverson, Al Harrington makes for great trio.
The 76ers get talent back for a superstar (Iverson) in Mike Bibby, and Kevin Martin, for Igoudala. They have cap relief if Bibby does decide to opt out, and they have an up and comming talent in K$ to excite their crowd. They also don't lose much up front, getting a scrappy Kenny Thomas, whom they initially overpaid to begin with back to help their bench, or play next to Webber. 76ers lose 2 starters and get 3 back.
Overall it's painful to think of Kings life without Martin and Bibby, but it would give our front court the kick in the pants it needs, it would improve our depth at every position but maybe the point guard, and would make us much more athletic and defensively tough. Think east coast mid 90s D. If D is the way the Maloofs are heading to rebuild this team on the fly, then it makes sense to part ways with Bibby because he is such a liability on that end.
Give them Kmark if needed but make sure you ask for one of their big + this year's 1st and Cisco cannot be included. We need Kmart or Cisco to shoot the 3s.
AI, hunter, 1st x2 + filler for Mike, Kmark, KT + filler
AI
Cisco
Ron
Hunter
Miller
.
SAR, Salmon, Price..
and you still have 10+mil in expire contract.
AI, hunter, 1st x2 + filler for Mike, Kmark, KT + filler
AI
Cisco
Ron
Hunter
Miller
.
SAR, Salmon, Price..
and you still have 10+mil in expire contract.
DavisAggie
G-League
And the 76'ers fans are soft and welcome a rebuilding process; yeah, and we get KG to some how opt out and sign for the MLE next year.
Every team loves to see their “legend” get traded for nothing tangible, right?
Plus, as an owner you play the season in hopes of making the playoffs, it’s called revenue, something the owners are pretty very fond of.
most_casual_observer
G-League
Even Jim Rome is pulling for SAC to get AI
Jim said he would like to see Artest and AI together, as would I.
Jim said he would like to see Artest and AI together, as would I.
Jespher
Starter
Kings Roster Would Look Like This
Jamaal Tinsley (PG)
Andre Igoudala (SG/SF)
Ron Artest (SG/SF/PF)
Danny Granger (PF)
Brad Miller (PF/C)
Ronnie Price (PG)(Expiring)
Steven Jackson (SG/SF)
John Salmons (PG/SG/SF)
Shareef Abdur-Rahim (PF/C)
Jeff Foster (PF/C)
Jason Hart (PG/SG)(Expiring)
Quincy Douby (PG/SG)(Please Develop Douby!)
Fracisco Garcia (PG/SG/SF)
Corliss Williamson (SF/PF)(Expiring)
Vitaly Potapenko (Towlie)(Expiring)
Maurice Taylor (Drugs)(Expiring)(Waive)
We'd be deeper, more veratile, a better rebounding unit, and quicker up front. Foster and Granger also can block some shots eh? Shareef could start in this lineup too, but he gives us a god spark off the bench IMO.
I would miss Kevin though...
Jamaal Tinsley (PG)
Andre Igoudala (SG/SF)
Ron Artest (SG/SF/PF)
Danny Granger (PF)
Brad Miller (PF/C)
Ronnie Price (PG)(Expiring)
Steven Jackson (SG/SF)
John Salmons (PG/SG/SF)
Shareef Abdur-Rahim (PF/C)
Jeff Foster (PF/C)
Jason Hart (PG/SG)(Expiring)
Quincy Douby (PG/SG)(Please Develop Douby!)
Fracisco Garcia (PG/SG/SF)
Corliss Williamson (SF/PF)(Expiring)
Vitaly Potapenko (Towlie)(Expiring)
Maurice Taylor (Drugs)(Expiring)(Waive)
We'd be deeper, more veratile, a better rebounding unit, and quicker up front. Foster and Granger also can block some shots eh? Shareef could start in this lineup too, but he gives us a god spark off the bench IMO.
I would miss Kevin though...
DaMan
Starter
Sixer fans were happy with rebuilding if they traded iverson. A good example of this was during the the offseason when it became possiblitily to trade him to boston for some young players boston were offering.Many sixer fans have welcome the idea of trading him to get away from being stuck in this position they are currently in.
I think we'd only give us KMart for Iggy, but then both teams are just trading good young talent.
I think Bibby, Cisco, Corliss for AI is a great offer with the great chance Bibby exercises his player option and Corliss comes off the books so they are looking at like $18M off the books with a decent FA market and a young Cisco as well. I really think they sign this deal. I know they want KMart, but he is ours. If we had to give him up, we should be no less then Iggy back.
The Hammer
All-Star
Agreed.
ITSCdanimal
G-League
OK, Deftones fan or not, I really have to take exception to this... Baron Davis' career thusfar has amounted to a handful of sportscenter highlights and a reserved table at the IR Bar & Grill. Davis is remarkable at times, and hurt the rest of the time. No, check that..... he's fantastic but erratic as hell when he's healthy, and belongs on Screaming A's list of players with awful shot selection.
Don't get me wrong, the guy is unbelievable at times, but those times seem to be interrupted too often. And Bibby might be a lesser player in that sense, but he's that same player all year long (this year being an exception thusfar). His return from an injury early this season leads me to believe his balls are twice the size of BD's, who seems to sit with the slightest injury.
He's hardly "more than the Kings can offer".
Man, a lot of you guys are smoking something funny.
So a rebuilding team is going to give up two first round draft picks (which will be lottery picks) and take on KT's contract just for Martin? Then Garcia will start at the 2?
Losing Martin will hurt the team in the long run, so they are going to need something that will help them in the long run to give him up. AI will not help in the long run, ditching KT will not help a ton in the long run. No, they would need another good young player in return which is exactly what the Sixers don't want to give up. If they think they can get Bibby and Martin plus whatever else to clear up the salary side of things for AI, they are in a whole lot of trouble.
As far as saying the Kings would have to include Martin as it seems that all other teams are throwing great young players for AI, I have not seen any young players at Martin's level offered out there. Martin is a proven minimum 20/5 player with no baggage at $1mil a year and in his lower 20s.
So a rebuilding team is going to give up two first round draft picks (which will be lottery picks) and take on KT's contract just for Martin? Then Garcia will start at the 2?
Losing Martin will hurt the team in the long run, so they are going to need something that will help them in the long run to give him up. AI will not help in the long run, ditching KT will not help a ton in the long run. No, they would need another good young player in return which is exactly what the Sixers don't want to give up. If they think they can get Bibby and Martin plus whatever else to clear up the salary side of things for AI, they are in a whole lot of trouble.
As far as saying the Kings would have to include Martin as it seems that all other teams are throwing great young players for AI, I have not seen any young players at Martin's level offered out there. Martin is a proven minimum 20/5 player with no baggage at $1mil a year and in his lower 20s.
Padrino
All-Star
hey, you're certainly welcome to your opinion. i got no problem with that.
both davis and bibby show flashes of poor shot selection. neither shoots a particularly high percentage, but both show flashes of greatness at times. i think davis is the better-rounded player, though. he's a better passer, he's a better rebounder (though mike isn't necessarily a slouch for his size), he's more athletic, he's quicker, but of course, health is the most major concern with him. i think bibby is the safer choice, and when trading a player like allen iverson, i'd go with the safer choice, because you want to be sure you see a positive return on your investment. there's no guarantee that davis would be healthy enough at this stage of his career to warrant that kind of vote of confidence, but i still think he's the better player, if a bit overrated.
kennadog
Dog On It!
I was just reporting what the Rise Guys said their "source close to the Kings." I certainly wouldn't want a Bibby, Cisco, Martin trade for AI. Supposedly the Kings didn't, either, so far. My guess, is the Sixers are going to ask for a lot. Doesn't mean that in the end they will get as much as they ask for.
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And my thought, for whatever it's worth, is the Sixers are more likely to go for a proven player and expiring contracts. I don't think it needs to be made anywhere near as complicated as some people are thinking.
Of course they're going to try and get the best possible deal, but at the end of the day they don't really have that many options, especially if they don't want Iverson to remain in the East.
Of course they're going to try and get the best possible deal, but at the end of the day they don't really have that many options, especially if they don't want Iverson to remain in the East.
Folks who think getting AI is going to require some major moves are crazy. Trading big stars will always result in a loss and is usually done for financial reasons. Look at what teams got for Shaq, Webber, Ray Allen, a young T-Mac, etc. The best the Sixers will get is a borderline all star (see Bibby) and they don't (and really shouldn't) want more. Getting Baron Davis and his 3yr/$49 left will only make them continue to be a crappy team with a large salary for a few more years. They need to clear out, let this season burn away, and rebuild.
76er is rebuilding and they have Kmark and Iggy, two young studs do build around. What's wrong with that? And the second 1st don't have to be 07 it could be next year so they still have a late 1st rounder to play with.
As for the King, yes trade Kmark hurt but you get a couple 1st rounder in return and 07 draft is loaded. King is in a win now mode w/ AI/Ron/Miller/SAR in their prime and locked for the next 3yrs + young gun like Hunter/Salmon/Cisco/Price on the rise. That is a solid 8 and can get it done with some luck.
We can offer then lots of $ in expiring contracts as we have around $13.5M not including Bibby most likely to opt out. I'd think they want this more than anything and gives them the flexibility to rebuild as long with a 1st round pick or 2.
nbrans
All-Star
I don't think this is realistic at all. It doesn't even work under the cap.
I've just started a thread in the main forum, but I'll repeat the information here, too.
I've heard that the Kings are definitely OUT of the running for Allen Iverson. So, while all this has been very, very interesting, it doesn't look like we're going to see The Answer in Sacramento, at least in a Kings uniform.
I've heard that the Kings are definitely OUT of the running for Allen Iverson. So, while all this has been very, very interesting, it doesn't look like we're going to see The Answer in Sacramento, at least in a Kings uniform.
What's wrong is that a team in rebuilding mode is giving up two early first round picks. Fine, they have two good, young SGs, but good luck getting more talent around them. It makes no sense for them. Also, AI, Miller, and SAR are not in their prime, nor is Salmons or Price a young gun. I don't know much about Hunter, and Garcia is too inconsistant and would be more valuable to someone else who can concentrate on him (like the Sixers perhaps).
As far as that three team trade, I'm not sure if it works financially, but no thanks. Baron and Dalembert have pretty big contracts. That said, I don't want to take on Baron's $50mil on that glass frame of his and horrific FG%. You thought Bibby was bad this season, try swapping his ending contract with a bigger one that has just as many problems sinking shots.
nbrans
All-Star
Booo
LA King Fan II
Bench
Well, hopefully we're still alive for some kind of change.
BawLa
Starter
Ditto.
If people don't post comments, it will die...
You know, things like "Can this get locked or something"
Seriously? Not everyone is going to believe me or anyone else until they actually see proof that Iverson has signed somewhere. Might as well leave this thread open as opposed to starting new ones for the rumors that will still be floating around. We don't know where he's going to end up yet...
You know, things like "Can this get locked or something"
Seriously? Not everyone is going to believe me or anyone else until they actually see proof that Iverson has signed somewhere. Might as well leave this thread open as opposed to starting new ones for the rumors that will still be floating around. We don't know where he's going to end up yet...
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