All I Want is Defense

miltonap

Starter
Why can't we defend? I want to see the team give a crap. Why is defense never important to this organization? Past 10 years, offense offense offense. Small ball. Pace. I hate watching this.

We're never going to win like this. We haven't in 10 years. I don't get it.

I honestly wouldn't mind scrapping the team and starting over with a defense first foundation. I want to watch a team that cares.
 
Why can't we defend? I want to see the team give a crap. Why is defense never important to this organization? Past 10 years, offense offense offense. Small ball. Pace. I hate watching this.

We're never going to win like this. We haven't in 10 years. I don't get it.

I honestly wouldn't mind scrapping the team and starting over with a defense first foundation. I want to watch a team that cares.

Ignorant owners = ignorant organizations. You saw what happened to the only coach to stress defense. He was quite literally, and famously, FIRED FOR IT. That's what you get when you have stupid children running organizations.
 
Heart and hustle, energy and effort. Sometimes they have it, other times they act as though they don't even know the meanings of those words.

I want consistency, be it good, bad or so horrible I want to gouge my eyes out with toothpicks. I'm mad as hell. I had hope again, the first in a very long time. And what happened? Somebody on the Kings saw that spark of hope and they jumped up and rushed over to pee on it.

I've been a fan of the NBA for over 50 years. I've been a LOYAL Kings fan since 1985. I've watched through thick and thin, the rare days of winning and the seemingly never-ending days of losing. Now, though, I find myself not even wanting to turn on the game. And that's not me. That's not who I am.

All I want is MY FREAKING TEAM BACK! And right now I don't care what they have to do to get it done.
 
George "let's switch on every possible opportunity and play 3-guard, small-ball as much as possible" Karl will not work as a coach of this team, with this personnel.

I don't know if he's senile, ignorant, delusional, or resistant to change (or all 4 of them), but IMO it has been proven without the shred of a doubt that he will not adjust what he's doing out there, despite the blatant and repeated failures.
 
This team has the emotional stability of a teenage girl on her period.

Demarcus Cousins has no on the court leadership skills period. Rondo can only do so much to lead, but he has to carry a hell of a load. We looked like we wanted to be anywhere else but the basketball court. Really really disappointing from all angles.
 
George Karl's doesn't know what defense is, doesn't care about it enough, his defensive philosophy isn't working.
 
Malone couldn't get us to play d either. What was our ranking during his tenure. Last? Middling.

I don't doubt he's a better fit for this team than Karl but still. This team hasn't played d for a very long time.
 
This team has the emotional stability of a teenage girl on her period.

Demarcus Cousins has no on the court leadership skills period. Rondo can only do so much to lead, but he has to carry a hell of a load. We looked like we wanted to be anywhere else but the basketball court. Really really disappointing from all angles.
On a positive note, Rondo's proving the doubters wrong; no doubt the best acquisition of the summer.

O Casspi, where art thou?
 
This team has the emotional stability of a teenage girl on her period.

Demarcus Cousins has no on the court leadership skills period. Rondo can only do so much to lead, but he has to carry a hell of a load. We looked like we wanted to be anywhere else but the basketball court. Really really disappointing from all angles.

Bingo. I've been saying this for a long time but I just don't think you can underestimate the affect that your best player (DeMarcus) has on the rest of the team when he's as immature and emotional as he is on (and lately off) the court. Couple that with a coach who looks like he's completely lost and the game has passed him by and you have a disaster on your hands. I'm just not convinced that he's the guy that we continue to build around. He finally has a roster talented enough that is more than capable of making the playoffs yet it seems as though every other game they play with no heart, no passion, and no effort on defense. At what point do you stop making excuses and just pull the plug and trade him and start building around another core? I mean, seriously, is it realistic to think that this guy is going to lead us into a deep playoff run? He can't even maintain his composure on simple plays during a game when he thinks he's been fouled or called for a foul. Imagine how he would unravel during a heated and intense NBA playoff series. You have to be mentally tough to succeed at that level.
 
Because Thibodeau isn't exciting enough. I mean yeah we'd have a winning record and make the playoffs and all that garbage but who really wants to watch games where both teams only score in the 90's? That's so boring and very un Warrior like.

Now winning is everything, I don't want to see Points Per Game of Kings is 4th, but Points Allowed Per Game is 29th
 
Because Thibodeau isn't exciting enough. I mean yeah we'd have a winning record and make the playoffs and all that garbage but who really wants to watch games where both teams only score in the 90's? That's so boring and very un Warrior like.
And you can guarantee those things?
 
Ignorant owners = ignorant organizations. You saw what happened to the only coach to stress defense. He was quite literally, and famously, FIRED FOR IT. That's what you get when you have stupid children running organizations.

Exactly. A fish rots from the head.
 
Heart and hustle, energy and effort. Sometimes they have it, other times they act as though they don't even know the meanings of those words.

I want consistency, be it good, bad or so horrible I want to gouge my eyes out with toothpicks. I'm mad as hell. I had hope again, the first in a very long time. And what happened? Somebody on the Kings saw that spark of hope and they jumped up and rushed over to pee on it.

I've been a fan of the NBA for over 50 years. I've been a LOYAL Kings fan since 1985. I've watched through thick and thin, the rare days of winning and the seemingly never-ending days of losing. Now, though, I find myself not even wanting to turn on the game. And that's not me. That's not who I am.

All I want is MY FREAKING TEAM BACK! And right now I don't care what they have to do to get it done.

Apathy is a dangerous thing for an organization. Especially when it is starting to affect the die hard fans.
 
Apathy is a dangerous thing for an organization. Especially when it is starting to affect the die hard fans.

Exactly.
When you fans start feeling "meh, what else is new?" with a shoulder shrug, then that organization is entering dangerous territory. That's kinda where I am.
 
Malone couldn't get us to play d either. What was our ranking during his tenure. Last? Middling.
Huh? We were top 10 in opponent FG%.

The change in focus was apparent as soon as Malone was canned and all the talk of pace/tempo was forced on the team. Even Jason Jones saw it.

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/kings-blog/article5092995.html

Our DRTG went from 104.2 to 113.5 within weeks of Malone getting fired.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/12/30/7467703/sacramento-kings-defense-mike-malone-tyrone-corbin

And what this goes back to is good team defense is a product of preparation and priorities, from the coach. For us, it's also the higher-ups who haven't valued defense in a decade. People seem to think it's simply about players going out there and trying. And that would be wrong.
 
Bingo. I've been saying this for a long time but I just don't think you can underestimate the affect that your best player (DeMarcus) has on the rest of the team when he's as immature and emotional as he is on (and lately off) the court. Couple that with a coach who looks like he's completely lost and the game has passed him by and you have a disaster on your hands. I'm just not convinced that he's the guy that we continue to build around. He finally has a roster talented enough that is more than capable of making the playoffs yet it seems as though every other game they play with no heart, no passion, and no effort on defense. At what point do you stop making excuses and just pull the plug and trade him and start building around another core? I mean, seriously, is it realistic to think that this guy is going to lead us into a deep playoff run? He can't even maintain his composure on simple plays during a game when he thinks he's been fouled or called for a foul. Imagine how he would unravel during a heated and intense NBA playoff series. You have to be mentally tough to succeed at that level.

The very LAST person who gets trashed in our organization for defense is DeMarcus Cousins. Not that that would stop you from trashing him anyway.
 
I think most of us are aware that you can't run a zone defense too long in the NBA because the shooters are to good and it gets exploited. What the Kings run is a glorified matchup zone defense. The whole point of a zone is to force teams to shoot from the perimeter. And that's exactly what teams do to us. Thing is, we get all of the negatives of the zone defense and lose any positives by allowing our big men to switch out and play the perimiter. So not only can teams shoot uncontested from the perimeter, the can also post up our guards with their big men in the paint. Our problems are not effort or attitude.

It's a truly poor defensive scheme for an NBA team. Might be awesome in high school though.
 
Huh? We were top 10 in opponent FG%.

The change in focus was apparent as soon as Malone was canned and all the talk of pace/tempo was forced on the team. Even Jason Jones saw it.

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/kings-blog/article5092995.html

Our DRTG went from 104.2 to 113.5 within weeks of Malone getting fired.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/12/30/7467703/sacramento-kings-defense-mike-malone-tyrone-corbin

And what this goes back to is good team defense is a product of preparation and priorities, from the coach. For us, it's also the higher-ups who haven't valued defense in a decade. People seem to think it's simply about players going out there and trying. And that would be wrong.

I'm pretty sure we weren't top 10 in opponent field goal percentage over Malones tenure.
 
Huh? We were top 10 in opponent FG%.

The change in focus was apparent as soon as Malone was canned and all the talk of pace/tempo was forced on the team. Even Jason Jones saw it.

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/kings-blog/article5092995.html

Our DRTG went from 104.2 to 113.5 within weeks of Malone getting fired.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/12/30/7467703/sacramento-kings-defense-mike-malone-tyrone-corbin

And what this goes back to is good team defense is a product of preparation and priorities, from the coach. For us, it's also the higher-ups who haven't valued defense in a decade. People seem to think it's simply about players going out there and trying. And that would be wrong.

well-stated.
 
He's questioning Malones defense than I'll jump to a conclusion that
A. He wasn't around
B. he hates defense and wants the fast pace nonsense.

That definitely is jumping to conclusions.

Although Malone had our opponent FG% at .439 in his second year here (which would have been good for a tie for 6-8th at the end of the season), the FG% over Malone's tenure here - which was the stated term - was .456 (league average over that time, .451). So the statement was correct.

Malone was probably the best press-conference defensive coach I've ever seen. He talked a real good game. But the elephant in the room is that his results aren't really there. In his first season as coach, the Kings were 23rd in DRating. So far in his third season as coach, the Nuggets are 25th in DRating. He had very good results over a partial season during his second season (can't go back to see what the DRating was when he was fired, but given the FG% it was probably between 5-10). Does this mean that it takes his teams a full year to learn his defense (and that they immediately forgot it once he left), or was there possibly a small sample size effect going on in the 2014-2015 season? Time will give us a better answer on this, but so far the lionization of Malone is based on a 24-game sample. Based on a 24-game sample, Jeremy Lin was once one of the best players in the NBA. I think it's a bit presumptuous to accuse somebody of "hating defense" when all they really did was question an assertion that stands on pretty shaky statistical ground to start with.
 
That definitely is jumping to conclusions.

Although Malone had our opponent FG% at .439 in his second year here (which would have been good for a tie for 6-8th at the end of the season), the FG% over Malone's tenure here - which was the stated term - was .456 (league average over that time, .451). So the statement was correct.

Malone was probably the best press-conference defensive coach I've ever seen. He talked a real good game. But the elephant in the room is that his results aren't really there. In his first season as coach, the Kings were 23rd in DRating. So far in his third season as coach, the Nuggets are 25th in DRating. He had very good results over a partial season during his second season (can't go back to see what the DRating was when he was fired, but given the FG% it was probably between 5-10). Does this mean that it takes his teams a full year to learn his defense (and that they immediately forgot it once he left), or was there possibly a small sample size effect going on in the 2014-2015 season? Time will give us a better answer on this, but so far the lionization of Malone is based on a 24-game sample. Based on a 24-game sample, Jeremy Lin was once one of the best players in the NBA. I think it's a bit presumptuous to accuse somebody of "hating defense" when all they really did was question an assertion that stands on pretty shaky statistical ground to start with.

Since NBA.com allows you to sort the data by data (click here), you can actually check that(!) and we weren't even close to top 10, in fact we were 19th in the league under Malone last season in Defensive Rating.
And even during the 9-6 record run before Cousins went out we were only average at 15th.
 
Again, **** statistics.

All of us saw last year how, for the first time in ten years, a Kings team actually played hustling team defense.

That was not a fluke, it wasn't an accident, and it it means something that the players don't want to play that kind of defense for any other coach the Kings have trotted out there.
(Btw - it's asinine to look at defensive Kings statistics when Cousins was out with viral meningitis).

Have any of you been noticing the coded language the Kings' players have been using?
Go look up Rudy's post-game on-air interview after that game he played great on (Bucks?) : he said "It's all about the defense. Defense wins games."

Go look up Demarcus' post-game on-air interview after the Dallas game: he said "It's all about the defense. Defense wins games."

As any knowledgeable KF knows, Malone was famously fired lasy year immediately after stating in his post-game interview, "I don;t care about the analytics - it's all bull$hit. Defense wins games in the NBA : PERIOD."

If I had to read the tea leaves, I think there's a civil war going on with the Kings this year - the players HATE the system George Karl has, and his rotations, and the guy's attitude.
I think the players are subtly protesting with their coded language after wins, directly reinforcing that things need to change with the coaching, to a more defensively-oriented, slow-it-down type of system.

As a matter of fact, for the first time I can remember recently, in the pre-game before the Dallas game, Grant Napear himself mentioned the need for a focus on defense and used the same language the players have been using (focusing on the coach and system, not just complaining about the player's lack of defense which he always done). He mentioned it again at the beginning of his radio show today, specifically saying the Kings should slow down the pace and stop the focus on threes and get Demarcus into the lane.

I am guessing that the players have the ear of management, and management is starting to pressure Grant to start changing the public narrative and start questioning the horrendous defensive coaching.
I believe this is a lead-in to the firing of Karl, or at the least, the strong-arming of him into slowing the pace down by walking it up and getting Demarcus in the post/elbow.
 
That definitely is jumping to conclusions.

Although Malone had our opponent FG% at .439 in his second year here (which would have been good for a tie for 6-8th at the end of the season), the FG% over Malone's tenure here - which was the stated term - was .456 (league average over that time, .451). So the statement was correct.

Malone was probably the best press-conference defensive coach I've ever seen. He talked a real good game. But the elephant in the room is that his results aren't really there. In his first season as coach, the Kings were 23rd in DRating. So far in his third season as coach, the Nuggets are 25th in DRating. He had very good results over a partial season during his second season (can't go back to see what the DRating was when he was fired, but given the FG% it was probably between 5-10). Does this mean that it takes his teams a full year to learn his defense (and that they immediately forgot it once he left), or was there possibly a small sample size effect going on in the 2014-2015 season? Time will give us a better answer on this, but so far the lionization of Malone is based on a 24-game sample. Based on a 24-game sample, Jeremy Lin was once one of the best players in the NBA. I think it's a bit presumptuous to accuse somebody of "hating defense" when all they really did was question an assertion that stands on pretty shaky statistical ground to start with.

They're playing Faried at PF and JJ Hickson at Center, and they still have a better defensive rating than the Kings. I think we can all agree the Kings have a better defensive roster than the Nuggets, but aren't showing it. I wonder why.

Being 19th in the league in defensive rating is better than what we have this year, and we had a much worse roster last year to boot.
 
Again, **** statistics.

All of us saw last year how, for the first time in ten years, a Kings team actually played hustling team defense.

That was not a fluke, it wasn't an accident, and it it means something that the players don't want to play that kind of defense for any other coach the Kings have trotted out there.
(Btw - it's asinine to look at defensive Kings statistics when Cousins was out with viral meningitis).

Have any of you been noticing the coded language the Kings' players have been using?
Go look up Rudy's post-game on-air interview after that game he played great on (Bucks?) : he said "It's all about the defense. Defense wins games."

Go look up Demarcus' post-game on-air interview after the Dallas game: he said "It's all about the defense. Defense wins games."

As any knowledgeable KF knows, Malone was famously fired lasy year immediately after stating in his post-game interview, "I don;t care about the analytics - it's all bull$hit. Defense wins games in the NBA : PERIOD."

If defense wins games than the stat (which for some strange reason you hate) that measure it is quite important... nothing gimmicky about this stat either, just the amount of points your opponent scored adjusted for pace.
And since I also put up the stats regarding the team's state before Cousins got sick I'm not sure how that is in any way "asinine" (and while we're at it, it's a little asinine to only mention Cousins games out last year but not this year).

They're playing Faried at PF and JJ Hickson at Center, and they still have a better defensive rating than the Kings. I think we can all agree the Kings have a better defensive roster than the Nuggets, but aren't showing it. I wonder why.

Being 19th in the league in defensive rating is better than what we have this year, and we had a much worse roster last year to boot.

That is no doubt true, and I don't think anyone will claim this team has played better defense under Karl... but like Capt said, this team was nothing more than average all the way through Malone's tenure.... and while average is far better than terrible (I'll gladly take an average defense right now), we should remember things as they really were.

I liked Malone, I think it was a huge mistake to fire him (more about his relationship with Cousins for me than about X's and O's) and I'd much rather have him over Karl... but let's not get carried away about how good a defense we played under him.
 
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