KingsFanSince85
All-Star
None of that qualifies him as a true, full-time starting caliber PG.
A point guard log jam
- Thread starter sactowndog
- Start date
None of that qualifies him as a true, full-time starting caliber PG.
Monk will have already made $37M by the end of this contract. If he plays next year like he did this year, I doubt we'll go much below the max we can offer him on Early Bird, which is about 4/$78M. But even if we lowball and go something like 3/$50M...excluding taxes, agent, etc (but not including endorsements) that's a spitballed $87-105M...that's not generational money?
sactowndog
All-Star
depends on what you are trading him for.
Here is the logic…..
1) Malik has surprised with his ability to playmake.
2) the lead guard role typically makes quite a bit more money than a 6th man role so if he can play that role it could mean a substantial pay raise…
3) that role is currently filled by Fox on the Kings.
4) a team needing a lead guard may offer something that becomes a win-win-win for Team A, Malik and the Kings.
So let's flip this. You're the GM of any NBA team you want. What starter level player (that the Kings would view as good enough to be a win-win if they trade Monk for him) are you willing to trade to make Malik your starting PG of the future with the big salary increase/extension that likely goes along with it?
sactowndog
All-Star
It is but not compared to 4/$100 or 4/$120 which he could make if he could play that role
sactowndog
All-Star
well some Orlando posters posited 11. In this draft I would consider Isaac and 11 for Monk and Holmes….
macadocious
Starter
Monk is not a PG.
Monk is a combo guard.
Monk can play some PG minutes here and there.
Just because Monk handles while he and DeArron are on the floor together does not make him the PG.
If a team gives Monk 25MM+ to be their lead guard, that is a lottery team, probably a bad lottery team,
Monk is a combo guard.
Monk can play some PG minutes here and there.
Just because Monk handles while he and DeArron are on the floor together does not make him the PG.
If a team gives Monk 25MM+ to be their lead guard, that is a lottery team, probably a bad lottery team,
I wouldn't.
Caccia
Starter
I agree that Monk is a combo guard. If you look at the Net Rating for the playoffs, the twenty-one two-man teams that had the most minutes were mostly negative, with the exception of: Fox & Monk + 9.5; Sabonis and Monk +.7; Huerter & Murray +1.2; Lyles & Monk +11.5; Lyles & Fox + 14.9; Monk & Murray +11.4; Monk & Huerter +10.7.
The +- rankings for two-man tandems having the most minutes against Golden State show very similar results, but with Mitchell & Monk also in positive territory. This tells me that Monk plays well with nearly everyone on the team. Next year, putting him in the starting lineup and getting him more minutes should be a priority of the coaching staff. Also, Lyles absolutely has to be re-signed. Fortunately, he also really wants to stay.
The +- rankings for two-man tandems having the most minutes against Golden State show very similar results, but with Mitchell & Monk also in positive territory. This tells me that Monk plays well with nearly everyone on the team. Next year, putting him in the starting lineup and getting him more minutes should be a priority of the coaching staff. Also, Lyles absolutely has to be re-signed. Fortunately, he also really wants to stay.
I'd put money on him resigning due to his Fox connection and the general enjoyment it seemed he had playing here. I can see teams offering him some cash but not to play as the primary point guard.
Well yeah but I wasn't making the point that he's a starting caliber PG. I was saying it seemed like he played backup PG more often than Davion did. I don't have a problem with calling him the Kings primary ball handler off the bench. Whether we want to call that point guard or combo guard, I don't really care either way. He played point guard duties as much as many other backup points did.
Chupacabra
Starter
Monk is a point guard the way that Jimmy Butler is a point guard, which is not at all. They do create offense though!
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I agree about Monk in theory, but the way that Brown used Monk was indeed essentially as a backup PG. His pick and roll frequency was 3rd right behind Davion during the regular season, but once the playoffs came around he jumped way ahead of Davion and challenged Fox actually in terms of pnr frequency at almost 37%. Is that ideal? I don't know. In the playoffs Monk was actually far more exceptional than Fox in pnr but he also got to play a bench role whereas Fox had to pretty much do it all before fading due to injury.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
That's the thing pretty much in the modern NBA true PG's are mostly dead and gone. If you create offense nowadays you are basically the PG, even if you aren't the smallest on your team. The top 30 scorers have a very common thing among then and it's essentially running a teams offense unless you are more PF/shooter/iso driver in nature like Markkanen or KP.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
I'm not arguing against the point that he was used in that manner. I'm just saying he's not of the ilk of a true, full-time PG. He's not a dude you want bringing up the ball against heavy full-court or trap pressure. He's not a guy you want running the offense for 35 minutes per game. That's what Swipa is.
That's not what MM is best at or made for. He's literally a scoring 2-guard with some PG skills that can be used in that capacity in certain situations and for limited amounts of time. You wouldn't want to see him bring up the ball for 35 minutes while being defended by Jrue Holiday or even our own Davion Mitchell.
Malik is at his best while in assassin mode, trying to put the ball in the basket. He's great at catch and shoot, creating his own shot or puting his head down and driving into the heart of the defense with his quickness, speed and body control.
But he's also a bit reckless in that regard, as well.
To be clear, MM has been a favorite of mine since his days at Kentucky. I was so hoping the KINGS trade up to get him after drafting Fox in 2017. I've always loved his unflappable shooting/scoring ability. And during his time with the KINGS, I love the chemistry he's developed with Domas.
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LT-Sac-Town
G-League
Sooooo we want to trade our 2nd best playoff performer and the best friend of our best player for the 11th overall pick? Pass... Monk is a huge part of our core going forward
I think its fine. No log jam imo.
Monk plays 1 or 2 where you need him or if he's hotter than whoever's starting at 2. Davion plays every minute Steph and similar small guards are on the floor, along with spelling Fox.
They need that 2-3 wing and a back up C many if us have been talking about. And for Red Velvet to shoot 25% or better from 3 in next years playoffs.
Monk plays 1 or 2 where you need him or if he's hotter than whoever's starting at 2. Davion plays every minute Steph and similar small guards are on the floor, along with spelling Fox.
They need that 2-3 wing and a back up C many if us have been talking about. And for Red Velvet to shoot 25% or better from 3 in next years playoffs.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, I essentially agree. This is why I thought from a very early point the Kings need another star. I will say perhaps if the Kings can fill in around the edges with defense that Monk could be that guy. As is? Nah, I'm not seeing it even though it's possible. Just too much of a question mark IMO. I will stick by the reality that Fox had to go full "Jordan" to even get this team competitive with a contender on it's way down. Once Fox got a little banged up it was over. 4 out of 5 to the Dubs who went out in the 2nd round pretty handily.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
For reference, the Kings played a team more than willing to G up the rotation. Trust me, if the playoffs were any indication one of Davion or Monk is getting their minutes cut against almost any of the teams teams that made it to the conference finals. Trying to match up against teams like the Warriors is a dangerous proposition. They aren't on top of the heap at the moment. But doing so is still basically guessing.
If I was given the choice of 4 years at 85 million with a defined role on a contending team with one of my best friends and good chemistry or 4 at 100 million for a team desperate to make a splash, I'm leaving the extra money on the table every day of the week and twice on Sunday. That's probably only 6-7 million net to the player after taxes and agent fees.
But I guess it depends on if you actually want to spend all that money. I'd be pretty hard pressed not to have everything I want in life and more if I got to about half that.
But I guess it depends on if you actually want to spend all that money. I'd be pretty hard pressed not to have everything I want in life and more if I got to about half that.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Well, I think context is important. Yes, we lost to a team that went down in the second round, but there were circumstances IMO that contributed to it that can’t be quantified or proven.
One, the KINGS pace over 7 games wore down an older Warriors team. Two, the LAL just happened to matchup well against GSW.
Conversely I believe the KINGS would have been a harder matchup for LAL because their strengths were the LAL biggest weakness. Transition defense. Fox, Monk and Co. would have feasted.
Defensively for the KINGS, the LAL didn’t have a Steph Curry to get hot and bail them out. AD and LBJ would have done damage, but not enough to keep up with the KINGS frantic pace and would gotten worn down too.
So I don’t think the way you positioned above is the way to look at it.
And our two all-stars were playing with BROKEN HANDS and one of them with a chest contusion and a shiner you could see from the moon with your naked eye.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, but the Kings also actually matched up against the Warriors just as well. The Kings best lineup in the end was a G oriented one. The Kings ain't playing Fox, Monk, and Davion against these bigger wing teams unless the offense is unstoppable. The only unstoppable offense we saw in the post season went by the name De'Aaron Fox. And then he got injured.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Fox earned that injury though. I haven't seen that kind of carrying since Jordan perhaps. Dude went all out. IMO way beyond what you should have to rely on if you're a legit contender. He CAN do it which is great, now Monte has to figure out how to make sure it's not necessary until at least the later rounds.
Also... the Warriors were allowed to foul the Kings with impunity and half of those fouls were not called. That doesn't work against the league darlings in LA.
#1 is Lavine
#2 is Monk
#3 is Beal
Now the big obvious elephant in the room is Monk only played 22 MPG during the regular season. That's a large gap to expect everything in his rates to stay the same. BUT we did just get a tremendous 7-game sample in the playoffs where he was able to sustain that scoring success in a much bigger role in a much tougher context in the playoffs. It's very rare for guys to play better in the playoffs than in the regular season. Numbers almost universally go down.
Where things get tricky is navigating Huerter. So, if we do think Monk is potentially an elite scorer, do you give him that opportunity and start him for 30+ MPG? Do you just abandon the DHO 2-man game Huerter and Domas had that was one of our most effective sets all year? What do you do with Monk if you bring him off the bench backing up Huerter again? Is he someone you have to pay 15+mil/season for as a 20ish MPG guy? I do think you have to factor in his friendship with Fox as he's shown tremendous chemistry with him on the court and obviously would keep him happy here.
Also, our guard pay structure is going to get messy pretty quick here. It works perfectly right now because of defined roles: Fox max, Huerter 15ish mil/season, Monk 10mil/season, Davion rookie deal. That gets real messy if/when Monk signs a 4/60 deal and Davion wants like 4/40. It's just too much allocation to the guard slot where only 1 guy is a sure-fire star.
Not after that playoff run, absolutely not. You figure out if that scoring and drawing contact at the rim is something he can kind of maintain over the course of a season. That was EYE-OPENING how effective he was at attacking the rim. Didn't matter who was down there, Monk just went at him. He flashed that during the season, but he went full "IDGAF" and just became prime James Harden with drawing fouls. I really also don't want to discount getting statistically better during the playoffs. That's incredibly rare; even most star players have trouble maintaining their regular season form during the playoffs.
Also, somewhat sneaky, is that if we did decide to start him and he got more burn with Fox and Domas on the floor... I think you see that elite shooting return too. Part of the shooting struggle imo was he was asked to handle a much bigger playmaking and on-ball scoring role than expected.
Is it though? In a year (the 2024-2025 season) when it comes time to re-sign Monk the salary cap could be as high as $175 million according to current projections (the big bump coming from expected increases in TV revenue) and it would continue to go up every year from there. Let's make the Monk contract 4/80 instead and the Mitchell contract 4/50. Spending roughly half the salary cap on one half of an 8 man playoff rotation seems reasonable doesn't it? And that's not even accounting for the luxury tax cushion which will be significantly higher. A contending team should expect to be spending more than the salary cap.
Monk is our 6th man which for most good teams is a starter quality player. Huerter is an elite shooter who has great on-court chemistry running the two-man game with our star center. Davion is an elite defender. All of these guys are critical to our ability to win playoff games.
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Caccia
Starter
Monk started 37 of 76 games in LA the previous season. He shot .568 from two and .391 from three. His TS% was .597. He also racked up 2.8 assists per game and 3.7 assists per 36 minutes on a largely dysfunctional team. So yeah, he can do it across a full season. His assists went way up this year, a real improvement in his game.
By way of comparison, Fox shot .584 from two (unreal) this season, and .324 from three. His TS% was .599 and the assists were 6.1 per game.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Another excellent callout I’d already put out of mind.
