A McLemore question

[Big Cuz 15]

The claims of Ben's defense are getting incredibly overwrought. I think there is a vested interest to pretend he's Bruce Bowen. He's not. And not even Bruce Bowen would have gotten time let alone starts in the NBA shooting .250 and averaging 3ppg.

bruce was a tactician.. he would get in the opponents heads. ben does not even get close to that. he's putting a ton of effort. ben would probably do better hiring one of those bowen or christie as a defensive mentor to help him accelerate his learning curve.

 

[randymoss1881]

The claims of Ben's defense are getting incredibly overwrought. I think there is a vested interest to pretend he's Bruce Bowen. He's not. And not even Bruce Bowen would have gotten time let alone starts in the NBA shooting .250 and averaging 3ppg.

No his defense isn't being overblown. His defensive rating is 94.0 so far it will go up but by comparison tony Allen's rating was 101 and Bens faced Afflalo/Wes both good offensive players.
I love when the stats back up the eye test.

 

[randymoss1881]

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2014/11/5/7163269/ben-mclemore-has-been-much-better-at-defense

 

[206Fan]

No his defense isn't being overblown. His defensive rating is 94.0 so far it will go up but by comparison tony Allen's rating was 101 and Bens faced Afflalo/Wes both good offensive players.
I love when the stats back up the eye test.

Give Ben where credit is due. We all know he's been shooting bad, but it's not like he's taken 100 shots for us so far and only made 20. He definitely needs to improve on offense, but defense is the reason why the Kings are winning. Let's just go with what works right now. If it doesn't work by Dec, then maybe that's the time where we can start talking about trades.

 

[Bricklayer]

No his defense isn't being overblown. His defensive rating is 94.0 so far it will go up but by comparison tony Allen's rating was 101 and Bens faced Afflalo/Wes both good offensive players.
I love when the stats back up the eye test.

Given sample size and the nature of D-Rtng as a stat that wouldn't be a great argument even if it were true. But its not.

Def Ratings so far:
94 Evans
95 Cousins
95 Williams (!?)
97 Thompson
98 Collison
100 Gay
103 McLemore <---------
104 Casspi
105 Stauskas
106 Landry
108 Sessions

src: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAC/2015.html

Now 103 is not bad at all for a guard. Good even. Its not 94. To the degree using DRtng like that is an accurate assessment that would be, as I say, good solid work, not defensive stopper work.

Tony Allen right now is sitting at an 86. 86. Which is not sustainable by the way, He's normally about 98-100.

We have started off the team playing 4 straight major Western Conference foes all relying on the same basic PG/PF star structure. Lee was out, so it was just Curry, but then Lillard/Aldridge, Paul/Blake, and Lawson/Faried. the keys other than Cousins have been Collison and JT (and even Landry that one game) getting into the other team's star players and holding them down. Everyone's helped, everyone's buying in, but not a single one of Curry (until he padded the stats up late), Lillard, Aldridge, CP3, Blake, Lawson or Faried have gone off on us. That's pretty remarkable really, and a major reason, maybe the major reason, why we are winning these games.

 

[Iced Espresso]

Pete D'Alessandro,....lets get Gerald Henderson and fill out a starting lineup for the here and now

Charlotte fans think Williams will be better for them than Henderson. Looks like he is in the way, and playing out of position at SF some. Mostly yes from fans considering they get out of his player option next season. Most likely a straight up swap for Williams.

 

[Chubbs]

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2014/11/5/7163269/ben-mclemore-has-been-much-better-at-defense

I can't figure out where this guy is getting his numbers.

"Last season, Ben McLemore had a defensive rating of 107.6. Defensive rating was developed by Dean Oliver, who now serves as the Kings' Director of Player Development. It indicates the number of points a player gives up per 100 possessions. 107.6 is, to put it bluntly, awful. It matches up with the poor defense we saw last year."

It was 112 actually.

Then later he calls it defensive efficiency re:Noah.

" I can confidently predict this because last season's NBA leader in defensive efficiency was Joakim Noah, at 95.8. So, sustainable? No. But impressive? You better believe it."

That 95.8 is maybe correct. Basketball reference has Noah's drtg at 96.

I don't know where the numbers came from for Ben. Is this what passes for analysis at STR? Doesn't seem like I'm missing much.

 

[Tetsujin]

Doug Christie talks a bit about Ben's capabilities as a defender.

http://www.nba.com/kings/blog/doug-christie-praises-kings-khtk

 

[hrdboild]

The claims of Ben's defense are getting incredibly overwrought. I think there is a vested interest to pretend he's Bruce Bowen. He's not. And not even Bruce Bowen would have gotten time let alone starts in the NBA shooting .250 and averaging 3ppg.

Why do you insist on being relentlessly negative on this issue? Ben's on the ball defense was already decent last year and he's gotten even better about sliding his feet and not reaching in. With Darren Collison's ability to navigate screens, Ben has no longer been asked to do the impossible and guard two players at once. Consequently we're containing penetration and making guards work to get the ball into the middle. Sure he's still been a little late in closeout situations, relying too much on his speed to make up ground, but the point is he's no longer a liability out there defensively. Some of the potential has actually turned into production and he's still only 21. I'm not about to nominate him for the All-Defense team, nor do I expect to in the future, but Ben and Darren so far has been a plus back court defensively from what I've seen. And compared to last season, that's cause for celebration is it not?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

To be fair, Bricklayer has a pretty consistent track record of being relentlessly negative about every SG we've had since Richmond, except for Bonzi Wells and Tyreke Evans. I think he has a type.

 

[hrdboild]

To be fair, Bricklayer has a pretty consistent track record of being relentlessly negative about every SG we've had since Richmond, except for Bonzi Wells and Tyreke Evans. I think he has a type.

Yes but with those other guys I agreed with him!

And since you brought it up... oh boy did I love me some Bonzi Wells when he was here! It's a shame the smash brothers only lasted one season, or half a season really.

 

[KingMilz]

OK Ben was super impressive his defense was stunning on a super tough vet in AA.

 

[Tetsujin]

Blake Ellington ‏@BlakeEllington 13m13 minutes ago
Ben McLemore:"My offense is going to come, but one of my goals is to be a good defender, one of the best two guard defenders in the league."

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I like how the team showed that they still had trust in McLemore by running some early plays for him. And he repaid that trust with his best offensive game of the season to date.

 

[Kingston Jamaica]

I like how the team showed that they still had trust in McLemore by running some early plays for him. And he repaid that trust with his best offensive game of the season to date.

That's why I love this team so much. There's like a brotherhood not to leave anybody behind. By the end of the season Ben Mac will be a great player and the credit goes to Malone and the team. I'm seeing a similarity with Leonard and Green in SA. It's great for a young player to play for such a strong team that can provide the space to grow up.

 

[dude12]

Ben might end up as a Doug Christie type SG. Has a bit to go defensively as Christie was so damn good on defense but Ben is starting to trend as a pesky all over you guy, he can board fairly well, the offense may always be somewhat inconsistent....but where Christie was capable of running the PG spot in stretches if not all the time, Ben probably doesn't get there in that aspect although he's made strides.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

I can't figure out where this guy is getting his numbers.

"Last season, Ben McLemore had a defensive rating of 107.6. Defensive rating was developed by Dean Oliver, who now serves as the Kings' Director of Player Development. It indicates the number of points a player gives up per 100 possessions. 107.6 is, to put it bluntly, awful. It matches up with the poor defense we saw last year."

It was 112 actually.

Then later he calls it defensive efficiency re:Noah.

" I can confidently predict this because last season's NBA leader in defensive efficiency was Joakim Noah, at 95.8. So, sustainable? No. But impressive? You better believe it."

That 95.8 is maybe correct. Basketball reference has Noah's drtg at 96.

I don't know where the numbers came from for Ben. Is this what passes for analysis at STR? Doesn't seem like I'm missing much.

Defensive rating and defensive efficiency are interchangeable terms. Both refer to number of points given up per 100 possessions to adjust for pace.

Also, Basketball-Reference and NBA.com have different methods of calculating the number of possessions in a game. I forget which one is which, but one site counts an offensive rebound as a brand new possession while the other counts it as a continuation of a possession. Hence the difference in per-possession stats between the two sites.

 

[Merdiesel]

First and foremost, winning changes things.
Less pressure on guys like Ben. Last year he looked uncomfortable the entire season. He looked like he was thinking about every shot. This year he's just playing basketball. Hustling on D, getting after rebounds. Doing the little things. I still truly believe his shot will come around in a big way. His stroke is just to smooth to not.

 

[King Baller]

OK, real quick without checking. What team (s) did Bruce Bowen play for the first FIVE seasons of his career in the Association? I will tell you this much, in those first FIVE seasons he started 12 games, TWELVE Also his career HIGH for PPG average for a SEASON was 8.2

I did not know any of this info but was curious and found it here--> http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bowenbr01.html

Its not a stretch to suggest Ben might turn out to be a pretty good defender.

For info purposes Tony Allen--> http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allento01.html

 

[upinsmoke]

I hope Christie gets to work with Ben now that he's around the franchise again. I LOVE the fact that BJAX & DC are involved with the team again those guys are true Kings. C'mon Divac your up next...