#5 & Fodder for Deng?

[MANoICE]

Real GM has a story about Luol Deng might be available in trade for a lottery pick. So...

#5 + choice of Salmons/Hayes/Garcia, for Deng and #29.

Deng is 27, due $13.3 & $14.3 for the next two years. He is a long strong defender, solid rebounder and passer and a so-so 3pt. shooter.

Pick up the BPA that slipped in the draft for depth while adding a very good over-all veteran player (in his prime) at a position we have been lacking for quite a while.

Not sure I am in on this. I just had not seen anyone else bring it up and wanted to guage interest.

 

[ElRey]

Real GM has a story about Luol Deng might be available in trade for a lottery pick. So...

#5 + choice of Salmons/Hayes/Garcia, for Deng and #29.

Deng is 27, due $13.3 & $14.3 for the next two years. He is a long strong defender, solid rebounder and passer and a so-so 3pt. shooter.

Pick up the BPA that slipped in the draft for depth while adding a very good over-all veteran player (in his prime) at a position we have been lacking for quite a while.

Not sure I am in on this. I just had not seen anyone else bring it up and wanted to guage interest.

If MKG or Barnes is available, I don't know why the Kings would do this trade. Both guys project to be as good as Deng, and they will come much much cheaper than Deng. You have to think cheap, like a Maloof

Perhaps if they take on one of our contracts (Salmons, Outlaw), and get us a mid first round pick.

 

[Boogie-havoc]

I'd do the Philly trade way before i'd do this one.

I think this is selling us short in terms of value.

 

[roasthawg]

Both mkg and barnes are better options at this point than deng imo... no way i do this trade.

 

[bajaden]

Deng just had surgery, and is expected to miss part of the season. I seriously doubt the Kings want to trade for a player thats coming off surgery.

 

[Tetsujin]

why? Just why?

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Deng is extremely overrated and not worth his salary. He is aging and there is no way I would even give up just the 5th pick in this year's deep draft for him.

I would think twice even if the Bulls just gave him up for salary dump.

 

[rainmaker]

Deng just had surgery, and is expected to miss part of the season. I seriously doubt the Kings want to trade for a player thats coming off surgery.

I thought he was holding off until after the Olympics and that's why Chi isn't too happy about it. He's practicing with GB right now.

 

[The_Jamal]

Deng is extremely overrated and not worth his salary. He is aging and there is no way I would even give up just the 5th pick in this year's deep draft for him.

I would think twice even if the Bulls just gave him up for salary dump.

It amazes me how much everyone sceams "defense, defense, defense!" and then you spit on deals for the best defender on a top 3 defensive team in basketball. If you buy into Reke and Cousins as our franchise cornerstones, then Deng is absolutely the perfect player for this team. Rebounds well, defends at a high level, and is perfectly content with being a 3rd option on offense. Not to mention, he has a high b-ball IQ and would instantly become a team leader for us

If Deng were healthy, i'd jump all over this trade offer.

 

[mac]

It amazes me how much everyone sceams "defense, defense, defense!" and then you spit on deals for the best defender on a top 3 defensive team in basketball. If you buy into Reke and Cousins as our franchise cornerstones, Deng is absolutely the perfect player for this team. Rebounds well, defends at a high level, and is perfectly content with being a 3rd option on offense. Not to mention, he has a high b-ball IQ and would instantly become a team leader for us

If Deng were healthy, i'd jump all over this trade offer.

It is less about Deng's play than it is about his salary (and the resulting opportunity cost) and the added fact that we may be able to get a good pick at #5 to fill those very needs at a third the price.

 

[The_Jamal]

It is less about Deng's play than it is about his salary (and the resulting opportunity cost) and the added fact that we may be able to get a good pick at #5 to fill those very needs at a third the price.

Barnes and MKG are the only 2 guys we're likely looking at who fit that mold, and neither will be on Deng's level for at least another 2 years. It's getting to the point where the Maloofs and this team need to go field a winner, we have plenty of young talent already. Deng, at 27 years old, has another good 3-4 years of elite defense and being a valuable player to any contending team.

I'd gladly move forward with IT, Reke, Deng, JT, Cousins, T-will, Thornton moving forward with only needing to find another defensive big to come off the bench

 

[Bricklayer]

It amazes me how much everyone sceams "defense, defense, defense!" and then you spit on deals for the best defender on a top 3 defensive team in basketball. If you buy into Reke and Cousins as our franchise cornerstones, then Deng is absolutely the perfect player for this team. Rebounds well, defends at a high level, and is perfectly content with being a 3rd option on offense. Not to mention, he has a high b-ball IQ and would instantly become a team leader for us

If Deng were healthy, i'd jump all over this trade offer.

I am not as wildly against the idea as some, but his injury status is a concern, and as I've said with Barnes, if you bring in Deng then you probably have to trade Thornton, and move IT to the bench. The clear pecking order you have to hope for is:

Option 1: Cousins 20+pts
Option 2: Reke 18-20+pts
Option 3: Deng 15-17pts

and that compeltes the offensive portion of your starting lineup. then its defensive shotblocker next to Cousins, and pass first 10-12pt type PG or 7-9pt defensive specialist SG next to Reke. You get one more major offensive spot in your lineup at 6th man. I guess that could be Thornton. Otherwise its IT. And that's your scoring. So getting Deng is not offensive to me as a third opotion and defensive stiffener, but if you add any player who eats a lot of shots it has consequences to the shotmunchers we already have.

 

[ParniValjak]

It is less about Deng's play than it is about his salary (and the resulting opportunity cost) and the added fact that we may be able to get a good pick at #5 to fill those very needs at a third the price.

But if you burn a bad contract in the process it is not as bad. I really like Deng and what he would bring to the team provided that he is healthy. He is a great size for a SF and brings a lot of the things that we desperately need.

If given a choice, I would rather get Noah out of Chicago but then again, they are unlikely to trade him unless of course they have a raging love for Drummond.

 

[Gilles]

I thought he was holding off until after the Olympics and that's why Chi isn't too happy about it. He's practicing with GB right now.

I think this is true and surgery is not 100% confirmed. He's still thinking but it's very likely.

 

[The_Jamal]

I am not as wildly against the idea as some, but his injury status is a concern, and as I've said with Barnes, if you bring in Deng then you probably have to trade Thornton, and move IT to the bench. The clear pecking order you have to hope for is:

Option 1: Cousins 20+pts
Option 2: Reke 18-20+pts
Option 3: Deng 15-17pts

and that compeltes the offensive portion of your starting lineup. then its defensive shotblocker next to Cousins, and pass first 10-12pt type PG or 7-9pt defensive specialist SG next to Reke. You get one more major offensive spot in your lineup at 6th man. I guess that could be Thornton. Otherwise its IT. And that's your scoring. So getting Deng is not offensive to me as a third opotion and defensive stiffener, but if you add any player who eats a lot of shots it has consequences to the shotmunchers we already have.

Well, Deng isn't really looking to jack up shots all over the place like most of the guys on our team. He scores within the context of the game, and a lot of his increased shooting was due to Rose being injured. He's certainly not a selfish player, and I don't see him as a problem with disrupting our mess of an offense. If anything he'll help solve a lot of offensive cohesion problems.

However, his scoring ability does make Thornton expendable to find a big or look for a PG if we want to move IT back to the bench. Reke-Deng-Cousins is easily good enough to be a playoff trio and IT-JT-T-will-Healthy Hayes more than qualify as playoff caliber role players. Add in a strong deep shooter (hopefully Jimmer) a 15-20 min defensive big (Camby, Dally, Haywood mold) and we're in business. It's not a championship contender, but it's a team that can get us into the playoffs to hopefully start changing the losing culture we have around here.

 

[Anthony1]

I think peeps should stop putting Hayes in the mix as a salary dump. He's not as bad as he looked last year. He had a bad wing for the majority of the year and never got in his groove. Salmons and Garcia are the salary dumps. Not Hayes.

 

[hrdboild]

I am not as wildly against the idea as some, but his injury status is a concern, and as I've said with Barnes, if you bring in Deng then you probably have to trade Thornton, and move IT to the bench. The clear pecking order you have to hope for is:

Option 1: Cousins 20+pts
Option 2: Reke 18-20+pts
Option 3: Deng 15-17pts

and that compeltes the offensive portion of your starting lineup. then its defensive shotblocker next to Cousins, and pass first 10-12pt type PG or 7-9pt defensive specialist SG next to Reke. You get one more major offensive spot in your lineup at 6th man. I guess that could be Thornton. Otherwise its IT. And that's your scoring. So getting Deng is not offensive to me as a third opotion and defensive stiffener, but if you add any player who eats a lot of shots it has consequences to the shotmunchers we already have.

This is basically how I see it too. Whether that third option guy is Thornton or some as yet undetermined SF or PF depends on what opportunities present themselves in the draft or through the trade market. If we luck into MKG for instance than it's easier to see Thornton and Tyreke co-existing in the starting lineup since you already have your role-player defensive wing in place who isn't going to need a lot of shots. If it's Barnes, Robinson, or Beal than other moves are going to need to happen to balance the roster. I'm old-fashioned in this way, but ideally I want to construct a roster where my first, second, and third options are spaced out a bit in terms of role and position on the floor. So all other things being equal talentwise, I'd prefer something like Tyreke/SG/Barnes/PF/Cousins as the offensive core and then defensive specialists at the other two positions. That's all things being equal though and realistically talent is still the great mediator.*

As for Deng, he fits pretty well into that ideal scenario as well though he's not a great 3pt shooter. My concern with him is that he's eligible for a raise in two years and he's already got 8 years of NBA experience under his belt so he's going to get more expensive. Also, though he's only 27 right now, I do still worry about putting a ticking timeclock on our window of contention. In 2002 it looked like we were set for another 5 years but it all blew up relatively quickly. Now you look at a guy like Nash and it's tempting to think the age issues are overblown, but Deng doesn't have a stellar injury history up to this point and he's got surgery coming up this off-season so that's discouraging. That's why I tend to lean more towards spending that $12-14 million Deng is going to cost on Batum, who could be as good as Deng next year, and we get to keep our pick in that scenario -- possibly getting Drummond as the defensive PF we need.

*As a sidenote here, I'd also appreciate a Detroit Pistons model where you stack the deck defensively at every position and let the offense take care of itself. We could be heading that way with Evans/MKG though we'd still have a huge need at PF for a monster defender down low and that's the hardest spot to fill. At the opposite end of the spectrum is what we saw this year with multiple guards and shot creators on the floor at all times -- a lineup which scored a lot of points but didn't win very many games. My point being -- roster balance is important. It's very hard to build a team that can win consistently by only excelling on one half of the court. If you manage to find yourself a once-in-a-generation talent like Ben Wallace or Steve Nash though it's worth a shot.

 

[Section 101]

I am not as wildly against the idea as some, but his injury status is a concern, and as I've said with Barnes, if you bring in Deng then you probably have to trade Thornton, and move IT to the bench. The clear pecking order you have to hope for is:

Option 1: Cousins 20+pts
Option 2: Reke 18-20+pts
Option 3: Deng 15-17pts

and that compeltes the offensive portion of your starting lineup. then its defensive shotblocker next to Cousins, and pass first 10-12pt type PG or 7-9pt defensive specialist SG next to Reke. You get one more major offensive spot in your lineup at 6th man. I guess that could be Thornton. Otherwise its IT. And that's your scoring. So getting Deng is not offensive to me as a third opotion and defensive stiffener, but if you add any player who eats a lot of shots it has consequences to the shotmunchers we already have.

You sure do like putting IT on the bench. I don't disagree long term that is more likely his role, but until there is another PG on the team that is better than him (as a PG) then he is the starter.

 

[mac]

You sure do like putting IT on the bench. I don't disagree long term that is more likely his role, but until there is another PG on the team that is better than him (as a PG) then he is the starter.

Would you accept the alternative that we start a lesser PG but play better as a team? I honestly think Thomas is/ will be a better player than Derek Fisher or Chalmers, but both have started/ start for championship calibre teams. It's all about results for me. I have my own opinion of course as to what would be the best way to utilise the personnel and talent we have on the team, but as long as the results are there in the form of wins I can put my ego aside.

 

[Kingster]

Would you accept the alternative that we start a lesser PG but play better as a team? I honestly think Thomas is/ will be a better player than Derek Fisher or Chalmers, but both have started/ start for championship calibre teams. It's all about results for me. I have my own opinion of course as to what would be the best way to utilise the personnel and talent we have on the team, but as long as the results are there in the form of wins I can put my ego aside.

Same for me. If Kings trade for or get a superior PG to Thomas and Thomas goes to the bench, so be it. Until that time, IT needs to get a lot of minutes at PG.

 

[Section 101]

Would you accept the alternative that we start a lesser PG but play better as a team? I honestly think Thomas is/ will be a better player than Derek Fisher or Chalmers, but both have started/ start for championship calibre teams. It's all about results for me. I have my own opinion of course as to what would be the best way to utilise the personnel and talent we have on the team, but as long as the results are there in the form of wins I can put my ego aside.

Depends on the PG. As long as they know that Cuz is the first option and can see other mismatches that arise. Chalmers hasn't had a post player. Fisher had Shaq early and Gasol as second option to Kobe.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I am fare more interested in Iguodala than Deng. And if were talking to the Bulls, I'm more interested in Noah then Deng.

That being said ... I'd make a move for Deng if he was going for cheap.

Thornton for Deng straight up is about the most I'd be willing to deal, and I don't expect the Bulls to take that offer.

 

[Telemachus]

Would you accept the alternative that we start a lesser PG but play better as a team? I honestly think Thomas is/ will be a better player than Derek Fisher or Chalmers, but both have started/ start for championship calibre teams. It's all about results for me. I have my own opinion of course as to what would be the best way to utilise the personnel and talent we have on the team, but as long as the results are there in the form of wins I can put my ego aside.

The problem with both of those examples is that neither of them play like true pgs. Both Wade and LaBron averag more assists than Chalmers, and Fisher has never been big on getting a lot of assists. Neithe ever had to be the leader on the floor. If we ask IT to be the leader on the floor for the Kings, then he needs to be one of the better players on the team. As much as I liked how he played last season, I don't see him as one of the best players on the team right now. That may change in the near future as we are always hoping for players to improve every year.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

It amazes me how much everyone sceams "defense, defense, defense!" and then you spit on deals for the best defender on a top 3 defensive team in basketball. If you buy into Reke and Cousins as our franchise cornerstones, then Deng is absolutely the perfect player for this team. Rebounds well, defends at a high level, and is perfectly content with being a 3rd option on offense. Not to mention, he has a high b-ball IQ and would instantly become a team leader for us

If Deng were healthy, i'd jump all over this trade offer.

Deng looks like a great defender because he plays for the Bulls under Thibodeau (probably the best defensive coach in the NBA right now). Derrick Rose's defense was horrible before Thibodeau's team defensive schemes. Though still not good, Rose looks a lot better on defense now.

Deng is a good defender, but he is not any better than Salmons (when he wants to play hard). There are a lot of good but not great defenders out there and they don't worth $13 million of cap space on a young, still rebuilding team. Think back to how effective Salmons was in his short stint with the Bulls.

 

[The_Jamal]

Deng looks like a great defender because he plays for the Bulls under Thibodeau (probably the best defensive coach in the NBA right now). Derrick Rose's defense was horrible before Thibodeau's team defensive schemes. Though still not good, Rose looks a lot better on defense now.

Deng is a good defender, but he is not any better than Salmons (when he wants to play hard). There are a lot of good but not great defenders out there and they don't worth $13 million of cap space on a young, still rebuilding team. Think back to how effective Salmons was in his short stint with the Bulls.

yikes.

I'll just avoid this one, but you couldn't be more wrong. Thibs plays a huge role for them, but Chicago isn't near the same defensive team they are now without Deng

 

[roasthawg]

I am fare more interested in Iguodala than Deng. And if were talking to the Bulls, I'm more interested in Noah then Deng.

That being said ... I'd make a move for Deng if he was going for cheap.

Thornton for Deng straight up is about the most I'd be willing to deal, and I don't expect the Bulls to take that offer.

Agree with all of this... word for word.

 

[Bricklayer]

yikes.

I'll just avoid this one, but you couldn't be more wrong. Thibs plays a huge role for them, but Chicago isn't near the same defensive team they are now without Deng

this is true, but I think his point was that before Thibs Deng wasn't nearly the same defender. The question is would it translate if removed form that setting? He was always known as a solid defender, but he wasn't on anybody's All Defense radar. Deng would be a definite upgrade over what we've had, but I trust a guy like Iggy far more on the defensive side of the ball because he was consistently one of the better SF defenders even before Collins arrived and topok it to a whole other level.

 

[The_Jamal]

this is true, but I think his point was that before Thibs Deng wasn't nearly the same defender. The question is would it translate if removed form that setting? He was always known as a solid defender, but he wasn't on anybody's All Defense radar. Deng would be a definite upgrade over what we've had, but I trust a guy like Iggy far more on the defensive side of the ball because he was consistently one of the better SF defenders even before Collins arrived and topok it to a whole other level.

I agree, i'd rather have Iggy as well. But to call Deng, one of the elite defensive players in this league, is at the same level defensively as Salmons is an utter joke. I'll have to see if I can find it, but I recall reading an article about how stinking good Deng is on defense

 

[The_Jamal]

Also, it's important to note that these defensive guys we're talking about (Deng, Iggy, and Noah) will look a lot worse here. One good defensive player isn't going to change the culture on the worst defensive team in basketball, and all 3 of those guys are apart of brilliant defensive coaches and top 3 defensive units in the NBA. It'll be a step in the right direction certainly, but we have to maintain reasonable expectations

 

[hrdboild]

With Deng I think you see the effect of an excellent team defender on a team that has an effective team defense. Probably he's not as good individually if you take him out of that system, but on the other hand does the system work as well as it does without him at SF? Maybe not. Adding him to our team would improve our defense. How much we probably won't know until we acquire him and see how he fits. Doug Christie for instance was solid but not an all-defense team guy before he came to Sacramento (from what I recall that is, I'm a little fuzzy on general NBA knowledge that far back).