49ers thread for 2008-2009
- Thread starter VF21
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JT getting thrown into the deep end?? VF, are you serious? When alex was thrown into the wolves his rookie year with a college roster nobody gave a flying ****! Dude JT is martz' guy and he's been in that system for 2+ years. Im sick of that clown I was saying this would be a huge mistake since pre season go look at the early pages in this thread. Alex had a pretty good year in his second season and he got injured in his third. In 30+ plus games he didn't have as many bonehead mistakes as this retard JT O'suck in a measly 8 games!!
And did I mention I'm digging a coach with some actual balls? Sing is the man!
And did I mention I'm digging a coach with some actual balls? Sing is the man!
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You're certainly entitled to your opinion, cursing, name-calling and all. I just don't happen to agree with it.
J.T. O'Sullivan was NOT the first round draft pick; he was brought in because said pick hasn't thus far shown anything resembling value for what we gave for him.
As far as what you may or may not have said early in the thread, so what? Isn't this a forum to discuss our thoughts and feelings on the team, in this case the Niners? I didn't realize it was all going to boil down to who was right being most important.
EDIT (from VF21 - moderator): The name-calling stops now. It's not germane to the topic at hand and it's certainly not what this board has EVER been about. Thanks ever so...
J.T. O'Sullivan was NOT the first round draft pick; he was brought in because said pick hasn't thus far shown anything resembling value for what we gave for him.
As far as what you may or may not have said early in the thread, so what? Isn't this a forum to discuss our thoughts and feelings on the team, in this case the Niners? I didn't realize it was all going to boil down to who was right being most important.
EDIT (from VF21 - moderator): The name-calling stops now. It's not germane to the topic at hand and it's certainly not what this board has EVER been about. Thanks ever so...
Bummer... sucks that it didn't work out for O'Sullivan. I hope Hill can do well over the next few weeks, but I think a lot of the blame for the turnovers falls on Martz. He needs to tailor the offense around his guys strengths.
I like Davis' hustle on the interception run back. Too bad whatever happened with Singletary happened.
Otherwise another shrug of a game.
I like Davis' hustle on the interception run back. Too bad whatever happened with Singletary happened.
Otherwise another shrug of a game.
Ok...again....Martz being a good O coordinator or not has NOTHING to do with O'Sullivan dropping the ball every other time, or some games EVERY game he is HIT!!!!
The schemes on the Oline may not be right, the plays called may not be right, there may be a lot of things not right, but there is NO excuse for dropping the ball that often, or having such poor field vision that you can't see the guy underneath and that's the guy that ALWAYS gets the interception.
The schemes on the Oline may not be right, the plays called may not be right, there may be a lot of things not right, but there is NO excuse for dropping the ball that often, or having such poor field vision that you can't see the guy underneath and that's the guy that ALWAYS gets the interception.
Doc - To you it's all about JT's mistakes. Fine. We get it. Some of us, though, are looking at the picture from a little different point of view. It doesn't mean the points are mutually exclusive...
You can feel sorry for someone who has failed without it becoming a blanket stamp of approval for all his mistakes. Some of us are expressing a different sentiment. I didn't see any of us saying we want him to continue...
You can feel sorry for someone who has failed without it becoming a blanket stamp of approval for all his mistakes. Some of us are expressing a different sentiment. I didn't see any of us saying we want him to continue...
Doc - To you it's all about JT's mistakes. Fine. We get it. Some of us, though, are looking at the picture from a little different point of view. It doesn't mean the points are mutually exclusive...
You can feel sorry for someone who has failed without it becoming a blanket stamp of approval for all his mistakes. Some of us are expressing a different sentiment. I didn't see any of us saying we want him to continue...
You can feel sorry for someone who has failed without it becoming a blanket stamp of approval for all his mistakes. Some of us are expressing a different sentiment. I didn't see any of us saying we want him to continue...
I have a problem with blaming Martz, Nolan, Singletary, or even the Pope for JTO getting hit and dropping the ball with regularity. it has nothing to do with not feeling sorry for him. I'm just saying don't justify it by Martz not tailoring his offense for his team.
Maybe the offense scheme sucks. None of us are experts here, so it's all speculation. One thing is for certain though. JTO gets hit and he drops the ball, or throws a ball with a defender ALREADY in position to intercept it. The offensive scheme has nothing to do with those two things.
Obviously I'm no expert, but the wrap on Martz's offense before he was hired was that the QB's end up taking a lot of sacks because they have to sit back in the pocket a little longer. Obviously, O'Sullivan should do better at holding on to the ball, but it's also a matter of simple probability. The more often you getting hit the more often you will fumble the ball, especially when you're a quarterback looking downfield trying to make a play or getting hit from your blind side.
So what should Martz be doing? Reduce the number of plays that take a long time to develop. Increase the amount of running plays. Tell his QB to be aware that the third time he uses the same hot read in a game there's a good chance they'll be redy for it.
I don't think I ever excused O'Sullivan for his mistakes, I just said a lot of the blame falls on the guy in charge of identifying his players' strengths and weaknesses and adjusting to them. It's not like J.T. was nicknamed "Just Turnovers" today.
So what should Martz be doing? Reduce the number of plays that take a long time to develop. Increase the amount of running plays. Tell his QB to be aware that the third time he uses the same hot read in a game there's a good chance they'll be redy for it.
I don't think I ever excused O'Sullivan for his mistakes, I just said a lot of the blame falls on the guy in charge of identifying his players' strengths and weaknesses and adjusting to them. It's not like J.T. was nicknamed "Just Turnovers" today.
You can score a lot of points with Mike Martz as your offensive coordinator.
A LOT of points.
You in fact can go to Superbowls with him as your offensive coordinator.
His QBs always get sacked a ton -- that and his tendency to favor the pass over the run are the weaknesses there. But he has repeatedly made major QBs out of less than HOF talents. If a QB (ironically his guy) can't put up good numbers/performances in Martz's offense, I have doubts he could in any offense run by anybody. Kurt Warner = MVP? Twice?? John Kitna = 4000 yd passer? Twice? Really?
A LOT of points.
You in fact can go to Superbowls with him as your offensive coordinator.
His QBs always get sacked a ton -- that and his tendency to favor the pass over the run are the weaknesses there. But he has repeatedly made major QBs out of less than HOF talents. If a QB (ironically his guy) can't put up good numbers/performances in Martz's offense, I have doubts he could in any offense run by anybody. Kurt Warner = MVP? Twice?? John Kitna = 4000 yd passer? Twice? Really?
O'Sullivan was on pace to be a 3600 yard passer.
O'Sullivan has been sacked more times this year (32-29) than Warner was in all of 1999 (Warner was sacked 38 times in his other MVP year). He has fumbled a couple more times as well (11 to 9). Both are about 3 sacks per fumble.
Kitna fumbled 17 times last season and took 51 sacks... 3 sacks per fumble.
There are plenty of other guys with around 3 sacks per fumble this year as well.
So... are you sure that the fumbling is all O'Sullivan's fault?
O'Sullivan has been sacked more times this year (32-29) than Warner was in all of 1999 (Warner was sacked 38 times in his other MVP year). He has fumbled a couple more times as well (11 to 9). Both are about 3 sacks per fumble.
Kitna fumbled 17 times last season and took 51 sacks... 3 sacks per fumble.
There are plenty of other guys with around 3 sacks per fumble this year as well.
So... are you sure that the fumbling is all O'Sullivan's fault?
Interesting insight:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_y...slug=ms-morningrush102708&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
I think there's more than enough blame to go around. While I think JT is clearly in over his head, I think he has also been a victim of poor coaching, coordinating or whatever else it is... I liked what I saw from him at first and I guess, in my mind, I'm trying to figure out a reason why it all went south. He did seem to have potential and vision and enthusiasm, but maybe it was beginner's luck?
I do still think he could have done better if the line did a little better job. When you're standing in the pocket KNOWING you're going to get hit, it's pretty hard to concentrate. He wasn't the QB I had hoped he'd be but I had a lot of hopes for Tim Rattay, too.
I do still think he could have done better if the line did a little better job. When you're standing in the pocket KNOWING you're going to get hit, it's pretty hard to concentrate. He wasn't the QB I had hoped he'd be but I had a lot of hopes for Tim Rattay, too.
well what else do you want to do? Draft another young prospect and throw him in the there? Or watch more JTO/shawn hill BS? I'd rather smith take a pay cut, draft a QB, let him sit while smith plays and then if the smith project fails(I won't say again cause I believe it never failed to begin with) we have a young QB groomed to come in and at least be mentally ready and prepared to play in this legue.
well he could take a pay cut on a renewed contract for a few seasons. Or he could take his ten mil or whatevers while getting cut or stating for one more year. If he does that than that may be the only thing he ever makes in this league. I think the niners are the only team that would offer him a multi-year contract. Look I don't think by any means that alex is the savior. I just think right now he gives us our best chance to win. He's not gonna get you 250-300 yds a game. He may get you 190/1td/1pic a game but he could manage the game way better than JTO. I will however, give hill a chance to show what he's got. He performed well last year in a few meaningless games. Let's see how he does in 8 games(hopefully-that would mean JTO never sees the field again as a niner).
