New info. Says 4 developers agreed the deal is doable when the economy gets better.
http://www.sacbee.com/latest/story/2050904.html
http://www.sacbee.com/latest/story/2050904.html
4 developers talked with cal expo
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Not sure what to make of this. Sounds like it's just confirming what we know already. Best case scenario is that it's profitable but that it's hard to speculate this early and is therefore quite risky.
I would hope that if someone is willing to put their neck on the line, we could get things done while waiting for the economy to bounce back. Traffic studies, environmental impact reports and things of that nature could be taken care of while waiting. Hopefully, ground would break by 2011 in that scenario.
I would hope that if someone is willing to put their neck on the line, we could get things done while waiting for the economy to bounce back. Traffic studies, environmental impact reports and things of that nature could be taken care of while waiting. Hopefully, ground would break by 2011 in that scenario.
I think that's obviously good news -- means the plan is viable. Unfortunately the good news has to be tempered a bit by the implication that its a no go until the economy turns, and did Arnie ever decide whether to sell Cal Expo off to Zimbabwe or whatever back there? Might be more frustrating than anything else to know that we had a viable plan in place, and the team was still lost because of bad timing.
Checkout http://www.surplusproperty.dgs.ca.gov/
Cal Expo isn't on this list. I wonder if they guy who posted that the land goes back to the family that donated it if the state has no use for it was right.
On the plus side, Spanos was one of the developers. He has done alot for the community already. I could only hope he wants a football stadium too for the Chargers.
Checkout http://www.surplusproperty.dgs.ca.gov/
Cal Expo isn't on this list. I wonder if they guy who posted that the land goes back to the family that donated it if the state has no use for it was right.
On the plus side, Spanos was one of the developers. He has done alot for the community already. I could only hope he wants a football stadium too for the Chargers.
Cal Expo isn't on this list. I wonder if they guy who posted that the land goes back to the family that donated it if the state has no use for it was right.
On the plus side, Spanos was one of the developers. He has done alot for the community already. I could only hope he wants a football stadium too for the Chargers.
Realistically, I don't think anyone is expecting a lot of sellouts, especially with the economy the way it is right now.
I expect to see more value deals as far as ticket packages go and I suspect we'll be seeing a more aggressive outreach to fans, stressing Tyreke, Omri, Jon and Sergio as new faces along with Coach Westphal and his new coaching staff.
Fans will come if the product is entertaining, competitive and fun to watch. Wins are great but good basketball will put posteriors in the seats.
I expect to see more value deals as far as ticket packages go and I suspect we'll be seeing a more aggressive outreach to fans, stressing Tyreke, Omri, Jon and Sergio as new faces along with Coach Westphal and his new coaching staff.
Fans will come if the product is entertaining, competitive and fun to watch. Wins are great but good basketball will put posteriors in the seats.
There is really no way -- I think you considerably underestimate the damage to the fanbase rihgt now. Will take years to get it back, in this economy in particular. Only realistic way to have more than a handful of sellouts this season is if Geoff does something really splashy between now and training camp -- brings in a star basically -- and THEN we start winnign at a decent rate. As it is, after opening night there will be no chance for a sellout for months (except Lakers games) unless we are winning 2/3 of our games or some such. Without the recession, I would hope for an uptick this season. With it, just holding our own would be respectable.
Rubio would have given us a better shot -- the hype machine would have helped with early tick sales. Evans might well be the better player and result in more wins down the road, but its going to take him a while to generate excitement amongst the parts of the fanbase that have drifted away.
I think that it may be easier than you think. One advantage of this small market is that there is not much else going on, especially for sports fans in Sactown. One good season with an exciting player and the fans will be back. It's really quite boring around here from a sports perspective when the Kings stink.
We've got a lot of threads about the whole Rubio-Evans scenario so I don't want to take this totally off-topic BUT Rubio might have galvanized the fan base IF he was able to get out of his contract and IF he was able to play right away in the NBA with the same flair and style he showed in the Olympics.
At this point, it's no longer about Evans v. Rubio. It's about Evans/Martin/Casspi/Thompson/Hawes and Coach Westphal putting a product onto the court that will bring the fans back. Of course, there's always the SKDT, but apparently even their skimpy costumes weren't enough last year to entice the fans into the seats.
At this point, it's no longer about Evans v. Rubio. It's about Evans/Martin/Casspi/Thompson/Hawes and Coach Westphal putting a product onto the court that will bring the fans back. Of course, there's always the SKDT, but apparently even their skimpy costumes weren't enough last year to entice the fans into the seats.
You're Crazy
Okay, time to weigh in on this viability conclusion. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble but this project doesn't have an ounce of viability to it.
Let's see, they sent out 14 letters and got 4 developers to respond. One was Mark Friedman who has previously endorsed this project because apparently he thinks it's going to help his Arden Faire mall. So, he's got his own bias going on here.
Now Alex Spanos is a definite player but what could he possibly want out of this supposed endorsement? Who were the other two developers and why no transparency? There's a big difference between a "doable project" and a "viable project". Anything is doable but does it make economic sense and meet the intended objectives?
Opinions are only useful if they are backed up by facts. Have any of these 4 developers actually dug into the numbers and said "wow, this is a slam dunk!"? I don't think so. I am a 20 year real estate professional and financial analyst. I've looked at the plan and the numbers simply don't add up in a good economy let alone a depression like we are in right now. It's a difficult thing for people to admit they are wrong.
Pride preceedith a fall. The Cal Expo Board and staff desperately wanted to save face with this developer outreach effort. The spin they have employed is amazing. John Moag is out of his league and is floundering around having "spent thousands of hours and millions of dollars" on a worthless plan.
I gave the Board a "viable" alternative and at least it gave them pause to stop and reflect upon what they really should do. Unfortunately the Board and especially Cal Expo staff are still looking through rose colored glasses as many of you on this board are doing also. As a committed Kings fans it pains me to see so many of you misled by those with some kind of agenda.
I look forward to hearing who the developers were at the next Board meeting and seeing if there is any validity to their assumptions, opinions and conclusions. I can tell you right now, there will be none.
Okay, time to weigh in on this viability conclusion. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble but this project doesn't have an ounce of viability to it.
Let's see, they sent out 14 letters and got 4 developers to respond. One was Mark Friedman who has previously endorsed this project because apparently he thinks it's going to help his Arden Faire mall. So, he's got his own bias going on here.
Now Alex Spanos is a definite player but what could he possibly want out of this supposed endorsement? Who were the other two developers and why no transparency? There's a big difference between a "doable project" and a "viable project". Anything is doable but does it make economic sense and meet the intended objectives?
Opinions are only useful if they are backed up by facts. Have any of these 4 developers actually dug into the numbers and said "wow, this is a slam dunk!"? I don't think so. I am a 20 year real estate professional and financial analyst. I've looked at the plan and the numbers simply don't add up in a good economy let alone a depression like we are in right now. It's a difficult thing for people to admit they are wrong.
Pride preceedith a fall. The Cal Expo Board and staff desperately wanted to save face with this developer outreach effort. The spin they have employed is amazing. John Moag is out of his league and is floundering around having "spent thousands of hours and millions of dollars" on a worthless plan.
I gave the Board a "viable" alternative and at least it gave them pause to stop and reflect upon what they really should do. Unfortunately the Board and especially Cal Expo staff are still looking through rose colored glasses as many of you on this board are doing also. As a committed Kings fans it pains me to see so many of you misled by those with some kind of agenda.
I look forward to hearing who the developers were at the next Board meeting and seeing if there is any validity to their assumptions, opinions and conclusions. I can tell you right now, there will be none.
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Actually, in this economy I think a 30% (rounded) response is pretty good.
I mean you the individual no offense whatsoever but as far as you the poster on a message board goes, why should we believe that your opinion is worth any more than the professionals quoted in the article?
Again, I do not know YOU so I am only addressing the anonymous persona "Sketcher" in my response, but that sounds a little like sour grapes to me.
Basically then, you're objecting because they didn't consider your alternative to be as viable as you think it is? Differences in opinion in business dealings don't IMHO necessarily mean one side is right or wrong. It means there are differences of opinion. And apparently, your idea for a viable alternative was not as viable as you seemed to believe. It happens...
Again, I am trying very hard to keep this about the topic at hand but I really think you have an agenda here that isn't merely talking about the arena from the viewpoint of being a Kings fan. You've got a horse in the race or, more accurately, you're upset because you weren't allowed to enter your horse in the race. I think if nothing else that toally skews your objectivity in the matter.
I mean you the individual no offense whatsoever but as far as you the poster on a message board goes, why should we believe that your opinion is worth any more than the professionals quoted in the article?
Again, I do not know YOU so I am only addressing the anonymous persona "Sketcher" in my response, but that sounds a little like sour grapes to me.
Basically then, you're objecting because they didn't consider your alternative to be as viable as you think it is? Differences in opinion in business dealings don't IMHO necessarily mean one side is right or wrong. It means there are differences of opinion. And apparently, your idea for a viable alternative was not as viable as you seemed to believe. It happens...
Again, I am trying very hard to keep this about the topic at hand but I really think you have an agenda here that isn't merely talking about the arena from the viewpoint of being a Kings fan. You've got a horse in the race or, more accurately, you're upset because you weren't allowed to enter your horse in the race. I think if nothing else that toally skews your objectivity in the matter.
Proved My Point
Oh VF21, I knew I'd rile you up.
My "horse" in the race was put there for the simple reason I want the Kings to stay here and a new arena built. That typical response of "oh well, you're just jealous they don't want to do your idea" is lame and wrong.
All of my arguments about this project are based upon analytical facts, not emotional or unsupported personal opinions. The problem you and many others have today is that you trust "experts". You think they are free from bias or personal agenda and are acting out of pure motives. Look at what's happened to our economy from the actions of so-called experts. It has imploded. Your trust is misplaced.
A dose of critical thinking is necessary here and always. I could say I don't care if they don't pursue my concept but I'd be lying. Because, I do care that a proposal is put forward that has even a slight chance of happening. My proposal would create permanent jobs and a job multiplier for the future. That's what this area needs. We don't need more stores, offices and high density housing.
Do you get it now? How do you think we are going to escape from this depression? I understand the real estate business better than John Moag, Rex Hime or the entirety of the Board.
Whether you believe that or not is irrelevant. What really is relevant is the fact that spinning this yarn for the folks at Cal Expo is not going to help us get to where we want to be.
Please take some time to look at what the other "experts" had to say about this overly optimistic plan. It's not just me sounding the alarm. This plan is going nowhere but if you want to hang on to that thread of hope, be my guest.
Oh VF21, I knew I'd rile you up.
My "horse" in the race was put there for the simple reason I want the Kings to stay here and a new arena built. That typical response of "oh well, you're just jealous they don't want to do your idea" is lame and wrong.
All of my arguments about this project are based upon analytical facts, not emotional or unsupported personal opinions. The problem you and many others have today is that you trust "experts". You think they are free from bias or personal agenda and are acting out of pure motives. Look at what's happened to our economy from the actions of so-called experts. It has imploded. Your trust is misplaced.
A dose of critical thinking is necessary here and always. I could say I don't care if they don't pursue my concept but I'd be lying. Because, I do care that a proposal is put forward that has even a slight chance of happening. My proposal would create permanent jobs and a job multiplier for the future. That's what this area needs. We don't need more stores, offices and high density housing.
Do you get it now? How do you think we are going to escape from this depression? I understand the real estate business better than John Moag, Rex Hime or the entirety of the Board.
Whether you believe that or not is irrelevant. What really is relevant is the fact that spinning this yarn for the folks at Cal Expo is not going to help us get to where we want to be.
Please take some time to look at what the other "experts" had to say about this overly optimistic plan. It's not just me sounding the alarm. This plan is going nowhere but if you want to hang on to that thread of hope, be my guest.
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Yeah, whatever.
Sorry, dude, but you have NO IDEA of the background of some of the people on this forum. To act as though you and you alone are the one who can see things clearly is an insult.
I did NOT say that you were jealous that they hadn't selected your proposal, although it's pretty clear that's what you're feeling since you chose to put those words into my mouth.
What I said - and have no problem repeating in case you missed it the first time is:
PLEASE show me what part of that is lame. Go ahead ... I'll wait.
You're sounding the alarm? Well, thanks. Message received. You've done your due diligence. I'll still draw my own conclusions, thank you very much. And if it turns out way down the line that you were right, I'm pretty sure you'll be back to point that out, too.
Sorry, dude, but you have NO IDEA of the background of some of the people on this forum. To act as though you and you alone are the one who can see things clearly is an insult.
I did NOT say that you were jealous that they hadn't selected your proposal, although it's pretty clear that's what you're feeling since you chose to put those words into my mouth.
What I said - and have no problem repeating in case you missed it the first time is:
PLEASE show me what part of that is lame. Go ahead ... I'll wait.
You're sounding the alarm? Well, thanks. Message received. You've done your due diligence. I'll still draw my own conclusions, thank you very much. And if it turns out way down the line that you were right, I'm pretty sure you'll be back to point that out, too.
This is true. No use crying over spilled milk.
However, while it is irrelevant now, I do have to think the buyout thing would be different had he been drafted by the Kings. I'll touch on that once here and debate about that on other threads later.
There are 4 advantages that the Kings would have in signing Rubio...
1) He would most likely start here. Trust me, that plays on his mind. Not just him but anyone would prefer to start as opposed to come off the bench.
2) He has a countryman on the team in Rodriguez.
3) He wanted to be here. He made that absolutely clear and has hinted about not wanting to go to cold Minnesota.
4) Most importantly, he'd be making an $400,000 per season as the 4th pick over being the 5th pick. While $400,000 doesn't sound like a lot on NBA terms, it's a ton when you look at the number crunching being done in regards to the buyout. With Minnesota, he needs to get every red cent he possibly can out of the buyout to make ends meet. When the option gets you an extra $400,000, it makes things much easier and less hectic while negotiating the buyout.
However, while it is irrelevant now, I do have to think the buyout thing would be different had he been drafted by the Kings. I'll touch on that once here and debate about that on other threads later.
There are 4 advantages that the Kings would have in signing Rubio...
1) He would most likely start here. Trust me, that plays on his mind. Not just him but anyone would prefer to start as opposed to come off the bench.
2) He has a countryman on the team in Rodriguez.
3) He wanted to be here. He made that absolutely clear and has hinted about not wanting to go to cold Minnesota.
4) Most importantly, he'd be making an $400,000 per season as the 4th pick over being the 5th pick. While $400,000 doesn't sound like a lot on NBA terms, it's a ton when you look at the number crunching being done in regards to the buyout. With Minnesota, he needs to get every red cent he possibly can out of the buyout to make ends meet. When the option gets you an extra $400,000, it makes things much easier and less hectic while negotiating the buyout.
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