[Game] 39/82: Kings @ Bulls 12 JAN 2025, 12:30pm PT/3:30pm ET

[sactowndog]

If his contract is a good value, than that holds value in a trade, right?

The drop off in impact between Fox and Monk is significant, and if we trade Fox, I don’t really see who’s available at the wing/forward spot that will replace that impact.

Posting these again for reference…

Overall
EPM: Fox = +2.7 / Monk = +0.4
DARKO: Fox = +3.5 / Monk = -0.4
LEBRON: Fox = +1.7 / Monk = +0.9
RAPM: Fox = +2.1 / Monk = -1.6
VPM: Fox = +2.3 / Monk = +0.4

Offense
O-EPM: Fox = +2.6 / Monk = +1.3
O-DARKO: Fox = +3.5 / Monk = +0.7
O-LEBRON: Fox = +2.1 / Monk = +0.9
O-RAPM: Fox = +2.4 / Monk = +0.4
O-VPM: Fox = +2.4 / Monk = +0.9

Defense
D-EPM: Fox = +0.1 / Monk = -0.9
D-DARKO: Fox = +0.0 / Monk = -1.1
D-LEBRON: Fox = -0.3 / Monk = -0.1
D-RAPM: Fox = -0.3 / Monk = -2.0
D-VPM: Fox = -0.1 / Monk = -0.5

sort of except most 6’8” guys make more and you might struggle to match salary’s. I’m not fully opposed, and your numbers are telling but given the chemistry of Malik and Domas, the fact you could lose Fox anyway, and you get a better player with Fox I lean the other way.

Regardless we have too many guards and Carter’s development will be impacted getting only 10 minutes a game.

 

[Jkbiker]

If Fox and Monk starts then Fox as the better defender should be on Dame until Ellis comes in for Fox. Keegan needs to be on Giannis all game until he fouls out then Len as our biggest player

 

[NewArena]

I heard Sabonis tell the G-man that Coach is “letting me be creative”. Geez. What the heck was going on with Mike Brown this season?

 

[sactowndog]

Well we fundamentally disagree that Carter can flex up to play SF for stretches (particularly against backup SFs) so I’m sure we’ll disagree with my minutes rotation. Below is what I’d go with assuming we trade Huerter for a backup C or something…

PG - Fox (34) / Monk (14)
SG - Ellis (28) / Monk (14) / Carter (6)
SF - DeRozan (30) / Murray (4) / Carter (14)
PF - Murray (26) / Lyles (22)
C - Sabonis (34) / Len or New C (14)

Fox = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
DeRozan = 30 min
Murray = 30 min
Monk = 28 min
Ellis = 28 min
Lyles = 22 min
Carter = 20 min
Len or New C = 14 min

given Doug played Carter mostly at point I’m not sure Doug would agree on your minutes distribution. I think this hurts Carter’s development not to mention it’s not a winning line-up in my opinion.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I heard Sabonis tell the G-man that Coach is “letting me be creative”. Geez. What the heck was going on with Mike Brown this season?

This began last year as we moved from the DHO and Fox began launching 3s. Whatever Klutch may have done semi-openly I think Domas was doing behind the scenes.

 

[NewArena]

If Fox and Monk starts then Fox as the better defender should be on Dame until Ellis comes in for Fox. Keegan needs to be on Giannis all game until he fouls out then Len as our biggest player

We owe em one, i know that much.

 

[NewArena]

If there is a deal out there to get us a respectible wing, Cam Johnson for instance, that requires Monk as a piece. I'd give him up in a heartbeat.

In a heartbeat?! Hell no. Maybe if Cam was at least known for defense

 

[NewArena]

Monk and Fox are just not players I’d be rushing to trade. You’ll find out very quickly how much one or the other is missed IMO. Having two of them pretty much guarantees playing with some sort of pace and creation that not every team can say they have. The Warriors are literally begging for another shot creator next to curry and would die for Monk or Fox

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I heard Sabonis tell the G-man that Coach is “letting me be creative”. Geez. What the heck was going on with Mike Brown this season?

Wasn't giving the team rope and trust to take ownership of their talents. Christie makes it a top priority.

Most people don't respond well to micro-managing, when they are fully confident that they know what they're doing.....and when they make a mistake, they know it and how to fix it

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If Fox and Monk starts then Fox as the better defender should be on Dame until Ellis comes in for Fox. Keegan needs to be on Giannis all game until he fouls out then Len as our biggest player

Welcome back!

 

[twslam07]

given Doug played Carter mostly at point I’m not sure Doug would agree on your minutes distribution. I think this hurts Carter’s development not to mention it’s not a winning line-up in my opinion.

What do you mean? Carter exclusively shared the floor with Fox today. Why would that make you think Doug played him mostly at PG?

 

[ockingsfan]

Monk and Fox are just not players I’d be rushing to trade. You’ll find out very quickly how much one or the other is missed IMO. Having two of them pretty much guarantees playing with some sort of pace and creation that not every team can say they have. The Warriors are literally begging for another shot creator next to curry and would die for Monk or Fox

Agreed. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Monk is the "heart and soul" and the fearless warrior of this team. He gives this team swag and attitude. He's one of the top 2 or 3 most important players on this team.

If we traded him for anything less than a star caliber player, we are going to regret it and feel it right away.

 

[sactowndog]

What do you mean? Carter exclusively shared the floor with Fox today. Why would that make you think Doug played him mostly at PG?

just because he shared time with Fox does not mean he wasn’t the primary ball handler. I would have to go back and see what role he had when he was on the floor.

 

[SacTownKid]

What do you mean? Carter exclusively shared the floor with Fox today. Why would that make you think Doug played him mostly at PG?

Exactly. This is why Carter not completely looking lost is pretty significant. He's not only a rookie learning the hardest position (PG/SG), he's really played all roles so far. Off and on the ball. Defending up, defending down. Being a swing passer and a playmaker.

 

[twslam07]

just because he shared time with Fox does not mean he wasn’t the primary ball handler. I would have to go back and see what role he had when he was on the floor.

Why would their role on offense matter when we’re discussing Carter’s ability to defend and log minutes at SF?

 

[sactowndog]

Monk and Fox are just not players I’d be rushing to trade. You’ll find out very quickly how much one or the other is missed IMO. Having two of them pretty much guarantees playing with some sort of pace and creation that not every team can say they have. The Warriors are literally begging for another shot creator next to curry and would die for Monk or Fox

sadly you can’t play everyone and you are really light in the front court. You are also up against a salary cap as the Kings are close to the cap. So how do you propose to solve it?

 

[SacTownKid]

Why would their role on offense matter when we’re discussing Carter’s ability to defend and log minutes at SF?

And essentially he's just playing his game. In college he played next a PG in a system not too dissimilar to the Kings. He might bring the ball up, but he'll often swing it over to the other guard and then space. Then come back to the ball if need be.

 

[sactowndog]

Why would their role on offense matter when we’re discussing Carter’s ability to defend and log minutes at SF?

because you already have an issue with Fox and Monk preferring to operate with the ball in their hands. Also I’m tired of arguing whether Carter can guard the three for significant minutes.

 

[twslam07]

Agreed. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Monk is the "heart and soul" and the fearless warrior of this team. He gives this team swag and attitude. He's one of the top 2 or 3 most important players on this team.

If we traded him for anything less than a star caliber player, we are going to regret it and feel it right away.

Markkanen (in the Vivek “Stauskas” voice)

 

[reptilexcq2]

If there is a deal out there to get us a respectible wing, Cam Johnson for instance, that requires Monk as a piece. I'd give him up in a heartbeat.

You're undervalued how important Monk is to this team. No way Cam Johnson can do what Monk did...the ability to attack relentlessly. The way he works with Sabonis in pick n roll is something Cam Johnson or any other players cannot easily replicate. Cam Johnson is more like the Keegan Murray playing style.

 

[SacTownKid]

sadly you can’t play everyone and you are really light in the front court. You are also up against a salary cap as the Kings are close to the cap. So how do you propose to solve it?

Maybe the cream will rise. In due time.

 

[twslam07]

because you already have an issue with Fox and Monk preferring to operate with the ball in their hands. Also I’m tired of arguing whether Carter can guard the three for significant minutes.

Do you feel the same way about DeRozan and Sabonis since they also like to operate with the ball in their hands?

 

[sactowndog]

Do you feel the same way about DeRozan and Sabonis since they also like to operate with the ball in their hands?

well we clearly had troubles with ball movement before

 

[SacTownKid]

The Kings didn't have any problems moving the ball, they had problems hitting shots. The Kings under Brown were top 10 in passes made, and under Christie they're 3rd.

 

[twslam07]

well we clearly had troubles with ball movement before

We did?

 

[Caccia]

We did?

More like troubles with off-the-movement. This brand of basketball is fun to watch.

 

[The_Jamal]

Also, why are we even having this conversation during a 7-game winning streak? Whatever switch Christie flipped, it's working. Let's continue to build off this success, invest in the top 8 of the rotation and see where it goes

In the short-term ( meaning this trade deadline), you look to trade Huerter for a backup wing or backup big. Jval, Bob Williams, cody Martin, caleb Martin. Someone in that vein to get a depth piece where we are weak. I don't want to see any major shakeups *at this point* before the deadline

 

[sactowndog]

More like troubles with off-the-movement. This brand of basketball is fun to watch.

I agree what we currently are seeing. What we saw earlier not so much

 

[sactowndog]

Also, why are we even having this conversation during a 7-game winning streak? Whatever switch Christie flipped, it's working. Let's continue to build off this success, invest in the top 8 of the rotation and see where it goes

In the short-term ( meaning this trade deadline), you look to trade Huerter for a backup wing or backup big. Jval, Bob Williams, cody Martin, caleb Martin. Someone in that vein to get a depth piece where we are weak. I don't want to see any major shakeups *at this point* before the deadline

because we played better without Fox. Our defense today was not good.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

because we played better without Fox. Our defense today was not good.

Keon > Fox >>> Monk defensively.

I think ultimately we see Fox and Carter starting but that is likely next year. In the meantime maybe get Keon in there and let Monk and Carter cook while those two rest. Then maybe you have Monk/Carter/Kev/Keegan/Domas before you get Keegan and Domas some rest while the others rotate in.