[Game] 32/82: Kings @ lakers 28 DEC 2024 7:30pm PT/10:30pm ET

Best thing about Los Angeles?


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Our worry about Keon starting was his shooting and he’s somehow our best shooter and still not getting minutes


I don't think anyone ever worried about him being a good shooter, just if he could maintain a 40%+ 3pt. We're still dealing with fairly small samples with him, but I think there's enough on the bone now with him as a pro (G-League, his first 2 NBA seasons) that we can pretty confidently call him "starting caliber" as a shooter. And that's literally all you need because he's All-defensive team talent on the other end.
 
I don't know. I can say I don't think past draft night things will be the same. I really don't like the idea of kind of letting a major thing like that be determined by short term markers but if the Kings can get into the play in area and Doug can help turn this around I don't think so. If it continues to tank then yes. It's time. If Monte goes the other route and moves youth/picks for a Fox build again at this point I can't see any justification. Even if they ripped off 10 in a row. It's all too up in the air at the moment. This would simply be a case that Fox and Domas wasn't enough. Maybe shift gears and build around Domas at that point. We already know any team with Domas is going to likely have to have all world defensive talent guarding the perimeter to even have a chance. The Kings already have a great start built in with Keon, Keegan, and Carter. Keep going. Add another player capable of carrying the offensive load and that's all you can really do TBH.

rebuild around defenders? Sign me up. I'd rather watch a gritty, Memphis like squad being built than a finesse, three point chucking squad. Whether its Monte doing the building or another, this would be entertaining hoops for me.
 
If you are considering defensive ratings, Monk comes in at 113.6 in the last twelve games, that is, since he began to start. Among rotation guards, that is behind Ellis (105.5) and Huerter (109.0). That is a little behind Sabonis (112) and one of the team's prime defenders, Keegan Murray (112.3). But it is also better than DeRozan (114.5) and Fox (115.43).

Huerter, Ellis, and Monk--in that order--all have similar defensive rebounding numbers per 36 minutes, between 4.2 and 4.0. Fox is next at 3.7 (minimum 100 minutes). No surprise, but Ellis has been the best on the team at steals per 36 minutes in the past 12 games, at 2.7, with Fox next at 1.7. Monk is way down on the list at .7, the same as Murray. Ellis also leads in blocks (1.4) although Isaac Jones has 2.2 per 36 minutes and has played nearly 100 minutes. Fox and Monk both have .7 blocks.

OK, net ratings among guards for the full season. Keon Ellis again leads the entire team at a phenomenal 9.1. Monk is next among guards at 1.4, Fox comes in at 0.0, and Huerter at -.07.

If you want to improve the team, start Keon Ellis, but there is no reason to trade Malik Monk. I say this as a dedicated fan of Mr. Monk. As Sabonis said before free agency last summer, "We can't lose him. We can't." He ought to know.
I think going all in on Ellis is probably the best option Christie has in putting his imprint on this team midstream. I’m sorry, but you can’t just change the offensive or defensive system mid-year. That just can’t happen without throwing away the season. At this point Doug can change the players that play, rotation patterns, and can try to motivate in different ways.
 
There is an ongoing talk today in social media about MB asking DDR if he could come from the bench and that could have been a part of him getting fired (along with several other things of course).
This stat about DDR can be a bit misleading, since he played 35+ minutes in all those matches that went to crunch time and most of them were defeats at the end (maybe Fox or Domas or Keegan or Monk has similar stats themselves, I know Keon doesn't for sure), and he still has a positive net rating, 4th best in the team behind Keon, Domas and Keegan (Doug is also higher but has only played 9' per game).

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/wh...to-kings-with-the-best-plus-minus-in-nba-2025


Fox reacted to the tweet (not regarding the win/lose stats for DDR)

 
There is an ongoing talk today in social media about MB asking DDR if he could come from the bench and that could have been a part of him getting fired (along with several other things of course).
This stat about DDR can be a bit misleading, since he played 35+ minutes in all those matches that went to crunch time and most of them were defeats at the end (maybe Fox or Domas or Keegan or Monk has similar stats themselves, I know Keon doesn't for sure), and he still has a positive net rating, 4th best in the team behind Keon, Domas and Keegan (Doug is also higher but has only played 9' per game).

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/wh...to-kings-with-the-best-plus-minus-in-nba-2025


Fox reacted to the tweet (not regarding the win/lose stats for DDR)


The DDR stat is a stupid Causation=correlation. You can cherry pick numbers like that pretty much any form you want to. It's like people using individual game +/- to show who played well and who didn't. Just not how any of this works.

Posted this in the other thread, but I really like Fox speaking out here, defending himself and the team. Shows he still cares and is just not a "Klutch robot" waiting to get shipped off.
 
There is an ongoing talk today in social media about MB asking DDR if he could come from the bench and that could have been a part of him getting fired (along with several other things of course).
This stat about DDR can be a bit misleading, since he played 35+ minutes in all those matches that went to crunch time and most of them were defeats at the end (maybe Fox or Domas or Keegan or Monk has similar stats themselves, I know Keon doesn't for sure), and he still has a positive net rating, 4th best in the team behind Keon, Domas and Keegan (Doug is also higher but has only played 9' per game).

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/wh...to-kings-with-the-best-plus-minus-in-nba-2025


Fox reacted to the tweet (not regarding the win/lose stats for DDR)


Another thing Brown was right about smh team would be better with Derozan off the bench
 
The DDR stat is a stupid Causation=correlation. You can cherry pick numbers like that pretty much any form you want to. It's like people using individual game +/- to show who played well and who didn't. Just not how any of this works.

Posted this in the other thread, but I really like Fox speaking out here, defending himself and the team. Shows he still cares and is just not a "Klutch robot" waiting to get shipped off.
I feel like most teams’ records are good whenever their main guys play less minutes because usually that just means that they blew out the other team by enough points that they just sat out the entire fourth quarter or something.
 
The DDR stat is a stupid Causation=correlation. You can cherry pick numbers like that pretty much any form you want to. It's like people using individual game +/- to show who played well and who didn't. Just not how any of this works.

Posted this in the other thread, but I really like Fox speaking out here, defending himself and the team. Shows he still cares and is just not a "Klutch robot" waiting to get shipped off.
I don’t doubt Fox when he says this. I don’t believe he went to management asking for Brown to be fired. At the same time the vibes haven’t been good and I can’t imagine management totally loved Brown coming out hard publicly against Fox. I’m sure there’s a lot of sensitivity given and the contract that they didn’t want something escalated publicly between their coach and their star (regardless of whether fox says he’s OK with it or that he wants to be coached tough).
 
The DDR stat is a stupid Causation=correlation. You can cherry pick numbers like that pretty much any form you want to. It's like people using individual game +/- to show who played well and who didn't. Just not how any of this works.

Posted this in the other thread, but I really like Fox speaking out here, defending himself and the team. Shows he still cares and is just not a "Klutch robot" waiting to get shipped off.
Sorry, doesn’t make Fox a leader and that is what is missing. Fox’s hands are not clean in this. Maybe He could have stood up and said something. Don’t forget Klutch meeting with Monte and Wes. Klutch is Fox’s agent. You don’t think they had conversations?

Right now though it sure looks like Monte = Pete D’Allesandro in this firing.
 
Sorry, doesn’t make Fox a leader and that is what is missing. Fox’s hands are not clean in this. Maybe He could have stood up and said something. Don’t forget Klutch meeting with Monte and Wes. Klutch is Fox’s agent. You don’t think they had conversations?

Right now though it sure looks like Monte = Pete D’Allesandro in this firing.

Explain how it's even remotely similar scenarios/situations
 
Firing a head coach out of the blue. This was a shocking move in my opinion. It appears you don’t feel that way but that’s not the national narrative

The national narrative with regards to the Kings has always been... dumb. Just look at the 3 year discourse on the Hali-Domas trade for proof. Which they've all been weirdly quiet about this season because Hali has struggled.. hmmm.

Agree it was shocking and I voted in thread I would not have fired Brown. But when a team with huge expectations and massively underperforms... the coach is always the first domino to fall. And Brown is certainly not without culpability to our struggles; inconsistent rotations, limited Keon, not addressing the atrocious 3pt defense. Fire-worthy? Of course not. But for an impatient owner, he's going to want to see some change, immediately. And while people complain about this roster, they still have no answer for the level of talent we have and why it's underperforming so heavily. Especially in clutch situations, with 2 of the best clutch players over the last 5 years.
 
The national narrative with regards to the Kings has always been... dumb. Just look at the 3 year discourse on the Hali-Domas trade for proof. Which they've all been weirdly quiet about this season because Hali has struggled.. hmmm.

Agree it was shocking and I voted in thread I would not have fired Brown. But when a team with huge expectations and massively underperforms... the coach is always the first domino to fall. And Brown is certainly not without culpability to our struggles; inconsistent rotations, limited Keon, not addressing the atrocious 3pt defense. Fire-worthy? Of course not. But for an impatient owner, he's going to want to see some change, immediately. And while people complain about this roster, they still have no answer for the level of talent we have and why it's underperforming so heavily. Especially in clutch situations, with 2 of the best clutch players over the last 5 years.
Ok……still want a press conference from the guy who fired him.
 
Firing a head coach out of the blue. This was a shocking move in my opinion. It appears you don’t feel that way but that’s not the national narrative
People all over were calling for his head after the first two LAL games, then the Indiana blowout.

After Detroit something had to be done. I think the answer is still probably trading Fox and starting a soft-reset (before we're forced to make a hard one). But you can't do that in the day off between your next game, and Brown probably doesn't survive a soft-reset. Not even sure Monte will in the end. But it makes sense barring a blockbuster trade the next day that coach goes.

And yeah, I believe that Klutch's selling point to Fox was that they could keep his hands clean in getting him out of Sac when the time came.
 
Firing a head coach out of the blue. This was a shocking move in my opinion. It appears you don’t feel that way but that’s not the national narrative

I don't think I would say 'out of the blue'. We had a Fire Mike Brown thread here that had 445 comments, and 120 comments in the week leading up to his firing, with Christmas in the middle of that to deaden out discussion. Maybe the national talking heads didn't see it coming, but the national talking heads have us on permanent ignore until something noteworthy happens. The folks around here who were watching the games knew the seat was getting pretty damn hot.
 
Firing a head coach out of the blue. This was a shocking move in my opinion. It appears you don’t feel that way but that’s not the national narrative
If any other team with high expectations fired its coach floundered out the gates then put up a terrible 0-5 home stand with each loss getting progressively worse, it would have been absolutely expected but with the Kings it wasn’t?
 
Not to play "get the final word in" here, but I see that today's game thread is up, so I'm going to close this one.
 
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