[Game] 31/82: Kings vs. Pistons 26 DEC 2024, 7pm PT/10pm ET

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iowamcnabb said:
Rewatched that last play this morning. Yeh Mike was right to wonder why Fox was not tight on Ivey in that situation. Definition of not being locked in.
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Even worse. Fox was just standing about six or seven feet from Ivey, who was parked in the corner. He did not see that the ball was being passed left to right and headed for the corner. By the time he realized what was happening, it was too late to close out. What he was doing in no-man's-land on that play is beyond my ken. Also, beyond Coach Brown's comprehension:

<"I need to go back and watch the film and see exactly where Fox was but there was no reason for there to be a hard closeout. We were O.K. with them scoring a two at the rim, so you should not be in position to help at all. You should be hogged up to your man at the three-point line, everybody should.">

<Sacramento coach Mike Brown gave a scathing review of his unit on the floor to end the game, suggesting that the instruction was for the Kings to foul on the floor if possible. "They dribbled for eight seconds and we didn't foul them," Brown said.>

But neither Keon nor Trey attempted to foul on the play, which suggests that the instructions were not clear.

https://www.si.com/nba/mike-brown-a...gs-incredible-implosion-vs-pistons-jaden-ivey
 
Caccia said:
Even worse. Fox was just standing about six or seven feet from Ivey, who was parked in the corner. He did not see that the ball was being passed left to right and headed for the corner. By the time he realized what was happening, it was too late to close out. What he was doing in no-man's-land on that play is beyond my ken. Also, beyond Coach Brown's comprehension:

<"I need to go back and watch the film and see exactly where Fox was but there was no reason for there to be a hard closeout. We were O.K. with them scoring a two at the rim, so you should not be in position to help at all. You should be hogged up to your man at the three-point line, everybody should.">

<Sacramento coach Mike Brown gave a scathing review of his unit on the floor to end the game, suggesting that the instruction was for the Kings to foul on the floor if possible. "They dribbled for eight seconds and we didn't foul them," Brown said.>

But neither Keon nor Trey attempted to foul on the play, which suggests that the instructions were not clear.

https://www.si.com/nba/mike-brown-a...gs-incredible-implosion-vs-pistons-jaden-ivey
Click to expand...

The instructions were to stay connected to your player at the 3pt line and/or foul if your man gets the ball with his back to the basket. The play started with over 10 seconds on the clock and they didn't want a foul right away on the inbound.....too much time left. Once the second pass got to Beasley with him faced up, a foul was not the right play, as he's looking to get into a quick shot.

There's no good reason or excuse for anything that Fox did on that last play. Sagging off and on his heels. Everybody else was good there
 
This is not a 1 time thing. Fox is a good man defender, but off the ball he CONSISTENTLY falls asleep, ball watches and loses his man. It’s just now being brought to light because the Kings lost on a 4 pt play. Maybe it’s a good thing because Fox can focus on fixing it, although I’m not sure if it’s something that can be fixed or if his IQ is what it is at this point.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
The instructions were to stay connected to your player at the 3pt line and/or foul if your man gets the ball with his back to the basket. The play started with over 10 seconds on the clock and they didn't want a foul right away on the inbound.....too much time left. Once the second pass got to Beasley with him faced up, a foul was not the right play, as he's looking to get into a quick shot.

There's no good reason or excuse for anything that Fox did on that last play. Sagging off and on his heels. Everybody else was good there
Click to expand...
i think he was peaking at the ball thinking beasley would be forced to drive for the 2 points and he could make a game ending steal. Totally boneheaded and selfish (assuming my hunch is right and he wanted to make the big game sealing play….if not it was just a terrible brain fart). When he got up in the air on the close out, I think he then for some reason thought he should take a foul. Thats why his initial reaction was to indicate to the ref that the foul was on the ground/before the shooting motion. it Was a play I would have expected from Buddy Hield, not DeAaron.
 
TaxMan said:
i think he was peaking at the ball thinking beasley would be forced to drive for the 2 points and he could make a game ending steal. Totally boneheaded and selfish (assuming my hunch is right and he wanted to make the big game sealing play….if not it was just a terrible brain fart). When he got up in the air on the close out, I think he then for some reason thought he should take a foul. Thats why his initial reaction was to indicate to the ref that the foul was on the ground/before the shooting motion. it Was a play I would have expected from Buddy Hield, not DeAaron.
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Whatever he was thinking or not thinking, he must have totally zoned out during the timeout, when the coaches told everyone exactly what to do.

It's part of being "checked out"
 
I brought up in another thread and I’ve been a Fox fan from the start. Uber talented guy but why is it that other similar PG’s and lesser have brought their teams to playoff wins while Fox can’t? I don’t buy not enough talent around him because there is. I don’t buy that the coach is the problem because Brown is and has been capable.
There has been visible signs for all of us to see. Effort level comes and goes. Remember the 2 or 3 week disinterest in post game pressers. This Klutch/contract issue is a thing. If I’m his teammates, I’m wondering what the deal is because there is NOT a lack of talent on this team. I don’t buy DDR is a fit issue….freaking offense was ranked high.
Fox seems like a good dude and no one can question how good of a 2 way player he is but maybe this has run its course like many things in the NBA. Coaches don’t last forever except for a few, players get traded except for a select few.

What I do know is that this group has been good but there are no series playoff wins. I dont think a rebuild needs to be the answer but moving Fox for the Houston group or say younger but already productive wings and picks may be the answer to the leap we all hope for. If Carter can play as advertised, he and Monk and Keon and Huerter and DDR can more than handle the backcourt as long as there is an infusion of talent at the other positions.

It looks like the next progression may involve the trading of Fox.
 
Wow! 19 pages...quite a read. A variety of emotions, thoughts, and recommendations from start to end.

Now it is prudent to look ahead to the Lakers game. A good showing in that game could mollify a lot of hurt, at least temporarily. It also could be a step-up to a level that would bring the team to a play off/play-in opportunity. Hope and possibility are still alive.

To achieve success at this point in the season, and given the insights gained from the first third of the season, some adjustments need to be made. Who makes the adjustments and what they are is the issue. Clearly, the current path is somehow flawed.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
Whatever he was thinking or not thinking, he must have totally zoned out during the timeout, when the coaches told everyone exactly what to do.

It's part of being "checked out"
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I honestly don’t think it’s him being checked out. I think it’s the way his brain processes things in a split second and he has to make a read then react to it. It’s what makes guys like LeBron, CP3, Draymond special.
 
dude12 said:
I brought up in another thread and I’ve been a Fox fan from the start. Uber talented guy but why is it that other similar PG’s and lesser have brought their teams to playoff wins while Fox can’t? I don’t buy not enough talent around him because there is. I don’t buy that the coach is the problem because Brown is and has been capable.
There has been visible signs for all of us to see. Effort level comes and goes. Remember the 2 or 3 week disinterest in post game pressers. This Klutch/contract issue is a thing. If I’m his teammates, I’m wondering what the deal is because there is NOT a lack of talent on this team. I don’t buy DDR is a fit issue….freaking offense was ranked high.
Fox seems like a good dude and no one can question how good of a 2 way player he is but maybe this has run its course like many things in the NBA. Coaches don’t last forever except for a few, players get traded except for a select few.

What I do know is that this group has been good but there are no series playoff wins. I dont think a rebuild needs to be the answer but moving Fox for the Houston group or say younger but already productive wings and picks may be the answer to the leap we all hope for. If Carter can play as advertised, he and Monk and Keon and Huerter and DDR can more than handle the backcourt as long as there is an infusion of talent at the other positions.

It looks like the next progression may involve the trading of Fox.
Click to expand...

It's not personal. I'm a Fox fan. Sometimes a change is needed for all sides. No idea if Fox will be traded or won't. But if Fox wants to leave, I'd rather not drag it out. We don't want a situation where he is doing something to force his way out.
 
TheMobb said:
I honestly don’t think it’s him being checked out. I think it’s the way his brain processes things in a split second and he has to make a read then react to it. It’s what makes guys like LeBron, CP3, Draymond special.
Click to expand...

At the least then, he's not taking instruction from the coaching staff on a game deciding play. Unless he can justify what he was doing on that play (he can't, he won't), it's completely inexcusable
 
dude12 said:
If anything, and we are speculating, signs point to Fox being a disruptive presence. Kayte said on the game that the team is tight and on board with Mike. On the other hand, since that Klutch situation, we are seeing cracks. Is the source Brown or is it Fox? It sure appears to be a lot of frustration with Fox. Super talented, but when you are a big contract guy looking for an even bigger contract, you aren’t really allowed to be passive and disinterested when you feel like it.

And I actually do agree with Brown in his presser about slowing down the offense. It’s an issue on Fox. Sure, bring Keon in but he can’t stop multiple guys. Cunningham was going off and guarded by several guys. Beasley became unconscience, knocking down a 3 over Keegan. Just don’t think this team locks down another team in cru ch time and the best way to go about it is to keep up pressure offensively but Fox does what he wants.
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And yeah, if that's the case then the choice is probably easier since the timeline has been so drawn out with Fox. He's entering that amount of years where most players get canned by their team. Especially when the GM has done as much as he has. For anyone knocking Monte, be glad he's not been sitting on his hands like prior GM's.

Keon isn't going to solve all the problems, but again, on the surface he represents attacking one of the main issues philosophically. That's the main issue. It's like Browns answer to fighting this fire is throwing more fire on it. Yeah, that can work and I was even a proponent at one point, but if it doesn't? Time to change gears. And as for Keegan. It's the same thing. Someone even posted the stats of Keon as the POA not too long agao and he's much, much more effective than even Keegan. The Kings defense is the issue considering the Kings seem to be just a bit short most games. A bit short most games = no playoffs.
 
Caccia said:
Even worse. Fox was just standing about six or seven feet from Ivey, who was parked in the corner. He did not see that the ball was being passed left to right and headed for the corner. By the time he realized what was happening, it was too late to close out. What he was doing in no-man's-land on that play is beyond my ken. Also, beyond Coach Brown's comprehension:

<"I need to go back and watch the film and see exactly where Fox was but there was no reason for there to be a hard closeout. We were O.K. with them scoring a two at the rim, so you should not be in position to help at all. You should be hogged up to your man at the three-point line, everybody should.">

<Sacramento coach Mike Brown gave a scathing review of his unit on the floor to end the game, suggesting that the instruction was for the Kings to foul on the floor if possible. "They dribbled for eight seconds and we didn't foul them," Brown said.>

But neither Keon nor Trey attempted to foul on the play, which suggests that the instructions were not clear.

https://www.si.com/nba/mike-brown-a...gs-incredible-implosion-vs-pistons-jaden-ivey
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that's the Brown defense. Now, if he told Fox to do something else in that moment fine. But if Brown is trying to convince anyone that the Kings defensive strategy ISN'T to sag off the corners he's either full of **** or this is indeed the dumbest team in the history of Kings BBall.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
The instructions were to stay connected to your player at the 3pt line and/or foul if your man gets the ball with his back to the basket. The play started with over 10 seconds on the clock and they didn't want a foul right away on the inbound.....too much time left. Once the second pass got to Beasley with him faced up, a foul was not the right play, as he's looking to get into a quick shot.

There's no good reason or excuse for anything that Fox did on that last play. Sagging off and on his heels. Everybody else was good there
Click to expand...

Bad habits and strategies come back to bite you in the worst of times. What's Browns normal protocol on the corners?
 
Fox is a veteran point guard. He's not a rookie with a year of college experience. He shouldn't even have to hear "three-point instructions." He should know it and enact it on the court with NO coach instruction. In fact, he should be reiterating to everyone on the floor that it's not a close-out situation, it's a close-up situation. All that said, he was told *SEVERAL* times by Brown to stay close to his man and that this was NOT a close-out situation. There is no freaking close-out because obviously everybody should be already *close* to their man at the three point line. He was told. He was told. He was told. It's ridiculously absurd that he not only closed-out on Ivey, but also did his best to jump as high as possible and leave his feet. It's a clown act. He was also instructed toward the end of the game to run the ball up the floor, just like they did successfully in the first half. His response: roll the ball on the floor and walk it up. I think it's safe to say that he doesn't give a **** what Brown tells him.

Most teams will mirror the effort, grit and seriousness of the best player on the floor, so it's no wonder that the Kings can't win against the Pistons on their home floor.

It's time for a change.
 
SacTownKid said:
Sorry, but that's the Brown defense. Now, if he told Fox to do something else in that moment fine. But if Brown is trying to convince anyone that the Kings defensive strategy ISN'T to sag off the corners he's either full of **** or this is indeed the dumbest team in the history of Kings BBall.
Click to expand...

Have you listened to what Brown said after this game? He called out Fox by name, for the last play. He's not making up a story here for the media.

Late game situations up by 3, are always a different strategy. Any player/coach with any iQ, who is focused and not zoned out, knows that
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
Have you listened to what Brown said after this game? He called out Fox by name, for the last play. He's not making up a story here for the media.

Late game situations up by 3, are always a different strategy. Any player/coach with any iQ, who is focused and not zoned out, knows that
Click to expand...

I always say that the stuff you see on TV is not the half of what you see behind the scenes. I think Brown had just had enough of Fox. He couldn't stomach his insubordination any longer, no matter that it would cost him his job. How can a coach tolerate the open insubordination of a player? It totally undermines the entire team. At some point, Brown figured he had nothing to lose because a job in which Fox continually punked him was nothing that he would want anyway.
 
Kingster said:
I always say that the stuff you see on TV is not the half of what you see behind the scenes. I think Brown had just had enough of Fox. He couldn't stomach his insubordination any longer, no matter that it would cost him his job. How can a coach tolerate the open insubordination of a player? It totally undermines the entire team. At some point, Brown figured he had nothing to lose because a job in which Fox continually punked him was nothing that he would want anyway.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I'm just glad Brown went ahead and called out Fox publicly for that brain dead play last night
 
Kingster said:
I always say that the stuff you see on TV is not the half of what you see behind the scenes. I think Brown had just had enough of Fox. He couldn't stomach his insubordination any longer, no matter that it would cost him his job. How can a coach tolerate the open insubordination of a player? It totally undermines the entire team. At some point, Brown figured he had nothing to lose because a job in which Fox continually punked him was nothing that he would want anyway.
Click to expand...

You called it, man. Something had to give after last night. I could care less about the "timing."
 
Kingster said:
I always say that the stuff you see on TV is not the half of what you see behind the scenes. I think Brown had just had enough of Fox. He couldn't stomach his insubordination any longer, no matter that it would cost him his job. How can a coach tolerate the open insubordination of a player? It totally undermines the entire team. At some point, Brown figured he had nothing to lose because a job in which Fox continually punked him was nothing that he would want anyway.
Click to expand...
Also he has the best job in pro sports as he'll be cashing our checks from his couch the next 2.5 seasons.
 
TaxMan said:
And if that’s correct, then he is bradley beal 2.0 and you cant give him a massive deal.… even if he is “worth it “
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absolutely needs to be moved. We will see in the coming years that he won't be a winner as a number 1 option, he needs the right situation to excel, whether he does we won't know instantly.
 
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