2022 California Classic Day 3 7/5/2022 (Kings vs Lakers 2:30PM Pacific, NBATV)

[pdxKingsFan]

In order for Ivey to produce at the level sports fandom wants, he needs to have the keys to the car. Ain't happening with Fox and Sabonis taking up the first two seats, and a coaching staff looking for the playoffs.

Detroit is a great landing spot for him, personal narrative aside (which I think is more of a detriment). He's not being counted on to produce wins this year, just stats, and is surrounded by players like Cunningham and Bey, who provide complimentary skills.

Detroit is definitely good for him to flex his offensive skill set. I see a team that may try to go for it for 20 games but will also likely enter tank mode soon after. If they were serious about winning I would think they would replace Casey. Maybe I am wrong but has any tank commander actually turned around and started to coach the other side of the rebuild? I would think that would be a near impossible task.

 

[SacTownKid]

Is it just me or does Keegan Murray give Pascal Siakam vibes? I’m not saying he will be as good as him but imagine if Keegan was able to develop into a player at that caliber level

I see some of that, Pascal is quicker and more athletic though and has legit passing/playmaking abilities. I still see a modern stretch 4 version of Elton Brand. It's always hard to pinpoint 6'8" guys that have some face up skills as a shooter, post abilities, but that can also block shots while not being above the rim types. It's a very unusual combination.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Not sure how anyone could watch these 3 games and have a negative takeaway on him so far.

We're talking the whole process, although we obviously have folks who are lukewarm still which is their prerogative.

 

[The_Jamal]

Keon needs a year in the G-League, but he absolutely should have been drafted. His defense is going to play at the NBA level and a good year of development on his offense and he's got a shot to be a 3&D in the NBA. He's only 20 too, which surprised me a bit as a senior; thought he was 22.

 

[SacTownKid]

Even if Jaden Ivey becomes the breakout star of this draft - something I'm hardly convinced - and knowing that we sent DDV packing, I still don't see how we wouldn't have been left with a huge hole in one of the 3/4 spots. It's still our weakest position even after adding Murray and an extreme premium in the NBA.

But a lot of the people dogging the pick think we could have traded down to at least 7 and still got Murray ignoring reports that at least two of the teams trading up were targeting him. And we'd have missed out on Mathurin the next most exciting prospect if we had done that unless we traded to 6, and I'm not uber excited about Duarte who was one of the of the most talked about rooks for the first 2 months or so and then fell off the rookie radars.

And then there's the multitude of Tuckers on YouTube who have clearly never watched a Kings game in their lives.

I think for a lot of people it was more about flexibility seeing as nobody thought for sure it was Murray or nothing. Like trading down and getting all of what would come. Instead, Monte went straight forward in all of his moves and left very little wiggle room to be flexible from here on. This is basically the incarnation of this team and if it flops, which would be extremely disappointing and yes, this time will be on Fox unless Brown ends up as bad as previous Kings coaches when it comes to player usage, it will also spell major difficulties in getting all the way back out to start over.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Fan consensus is a really interesting discussion. I think it probably has to do with the fan demographics for the Kings who are likely a bit older and don't spend as much time on Twitter or reddit.

that would play a role for sure. A certain type of personality is more vocal on those platforms as well.

 

[The_Jamal]

I think for a lot of people it was more about flexibility seeing as nobody thought for sure it was Murray or nothing. Like trading down and getting all of what would come. Instead, Monte went straight forward in all of his moves and left very little wiggle room to be flexible from here on. This is basically the incarnation of this team and if it flops, which would be extremely disappointing and yes, this time will be on Fox unless Brown ends up as bad as previous Kings coaches when it comes to player usage, it will also spell major difficulties in getting all the way back out to start over.

I think the spot where we're truly stuck is if we sign Barnes to another 4 year/80 mil and then Sabonis ends up walking. If Sabonis doesn't walk, then we're good; we'll have a real like 5-7 year window to start putting playoff teams on the floor. But right now? Davion rookie contract, Keegan rookie contract, Monk 2 year deal, Fox has 4 years on his max but it's actually looking like a reasonably good value with some of the current max contracts being thrown out. Huerter at 4/60 is basically your starter cost and the cap is only going to go up. I don't see much issue if we had to move Huerter in 2 years. Holmes has 3 years, but he'll be an expiring by the time this "blows up".

Where you get in trouble is resigning older Barnes to a big deal and the Kings have to reset the following season. I don't think you'd be able to move him at like 3/60 remaining on his deal.

 

[funkykingston]

Anyone else think Murray went to the perfect landing spot? If he were drafted to most bottom 10 teams, they'd immediately push for him to develop his face-up game and ball skills. With the Kings, we don't need him to immediately add that part of his game. I think we'll see him in an expedited Kawhi-Spurs role. All he has to do is play good defense and make his shots.

Fox and Sabonis will cover up for any weaknesses he has, specifically his playmaking.

It feels awfully strange to say this, but I think we were a perfect landing spot for any rookie.

If you're looking for ideal players next to Fox and Sabonis, you want guys who are relatively low usage, good shooters, smart cutters, good defenders (especially solid team defenders), and guys who can get up and down the floor.

At the SG spot you'd like some secondary playmaking and at PF ideally you'd have good rebounding and weakside rim protection.

It remains to be seen how Huerter and Murray defend as Kings/in Brown's system, and Keegan won't be a big shotblocker at the next level, but otherwise it seems like both guys check all the boxes.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think the spot where we're truly stuck is if we sign Barnes to another 4 year/80 mil and then Sabonis ends up walking. If Sabonis doesn't walk, then we're good; we'll have a real like 5-7 year window to start putting playoff teams on the floor. But right now? Davion rookie contract, Keegan rookie contract, Monk 2 year deal, Fox has 4 years on his max but it's actually looking like a reasonably good value with some of the current max contracts being thrown out. Huerter at 4/60 is basically your starter cost and the cap is only going to go up. I don't see much issue if we had to move Huerter in 2 years. Holmes has 3 years, but he'll be an expiring by the time this "blows up".

Where you get in trouble is resigning older Barnes to a big deal and the Kings have to reset the following season. I don't think you'd be able to move him at like 3/60 remaining on his deal.

Honestly think that unless we are chasing a home court playoff series Barnes probably needs to be shipped prior to the end of the season for a more permanent/younger and more traditional "3". Unless it is Holmes used to acquire such a piece. Really we need a pure 3 and then we might be able to get by with Huerter in a 3 guard set. Otherwise maybe we can draft that player next year if Barnes comes back at 15 or less. I think most indications are he's not going to re-sign and certainly not on team friendly terms.

 

[KainLear]

I think for a lot of people it was more about flexibility seeing as nobody thought for sure it was Murray or nothing. Like trading down and getting all of what would come. Instead, Monte went straight forward in all of his moves and left very little wiggle room to be flexible from here on. This is basically the incarnation of this team and if it flops, which would be extremely disappointing and yes, this time will be on Fox unless Brown ends up as bad as previous Kings coaches when it comes to player usage, it will also spell major difficulties in getting all the way back out to start over.

You'd only want wiggle room if you are unsure. Seems pretty obvious to me how Monte McNair wants this team to be at this point; defense comes first and foremost, but that's not the be-all-end-all factor (as seen by him giving up on DDV), character matters too. (Not saying anything about DDV since you wouldn't know for sure unless you are within the organization... or James Ham) Guys with the fighting spirit, guys who might not have been ascending from star to superstar before even stepping into the league.

Plus if this version doesn't pan out, it'd spell the end of McNair's tenure with the Kings anyway so why leave wiggle room so one can ponder and regret it later?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think for a lot of people it was more about flexibility seeing as nobody thought for sure it was Murray or nothing. Like trading down and getting all of what would come. Instead, Monte went straight forward in all of his moves and left very little wiggle room to be flexible from here on. This is basically the incarnation of this team and if it flops, which would be extremely disappointing and yes, this time will be on Fox unless Brown ends up as bad as previous Kings coaches when it comes to player usage, it will also spell major difficulties in getting all the way back out to start over.

I'm not sure it was Murray or nothing but nobody wanted to break the bank open either. Not sure what San Antonio was offering but we know Indy's offer was Duarte plus 6. I really like Mathurin and think he has some star potential in 2-3 years but Murray has a chance to provide immediate impact right between our 3 best players. Couple that with Monk and Huerter and we presumably have 5 genuine NBA starters on this squad plus a capable guard rotation. Frontcourt still thin, but there's almost no scenario where it isn't thinner with any known deals on the table.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think the spot where we're truly stuck is if we sign Barnes to another 4 year/80 mil and then Sabonis ends up walking. If Sabonis doesn't walk, then we're good; we'll have a real like 5-7 year window to start putting playoff teams on the floor. But right now? Davion rookie contract, Keegan rookie contract, Monk 2 year deal, Fox has 4 years on his max but it's actually looking like a reasonably good value with some of the current max contracts being thrown out. Huerter at 4/60 is basically your starter cost and the cap is only going to go up. I don't see much issue if we had to move Huerter in 2 years. Holmes has 3 years, but he'll be an expiring by the time this "blows up".

Where you get in trouble is resigning older Barnes to a big deal and the Kings have to reset the following season. I don't think you'd be able to move him at like 3/60 remaining on his deal.

That's the good thing about Barnes, before that happens you'll know if you suck. This team should know roughly 2 months into next season. If they don't suck, bringing Barnes back will be pretty much mandatory more than likely. Barnes is every bit the type that will be just as solid as he heads towards the back of his career as he was in the middle. If they do suck? Well, putting together a package for a potential star baited on the line without touching your core isn't probably happening because of that Huerter move. Of course if things are that dire I doubt the Kings don't finally bite the bullet on a rebuild anyway. Then it gets into that sticky area where you have youngish players, but not young enough to be truly bad and get to where you want to be in the lottery for a few years. All in all, Monte clearly saw these playoffs and loaded up at the 3 point line which was >>> defense in the end when you looked at it all in totality.

 

[SacTownKid]

I'm not sure it was Murray or nothing but nobody wanted to break the bank open either. Not sure what San Antonio was offering but we know Indy's offer was Duarte plus 6. I really like Mathurin and think he has some star potential in 2-3 years but Murray has a chance to provide immediate impact right between our 3 best players. Couple that with Monk and Huerter and we presumably have 5 genuine NBA starters on this squad plus a capable guard rotation. Frontcourt still thin, but there's almost no scenario where it isn't thinner with any known deals on the table.

Oh, it sure sounded like Murray or nothing haha. When you put out a deal that almost nobody can even compete with in reality you're usually setting a price specifically high so nobody can match. He brought in Murray to talk to Fox and Domas. The writing is completely on the wall with this one even if it's not telling the full story.

 

[sdballer]

You'd only want wiggle room if you are unsure. Seems pretty obvious to me how Monte McNair wants this team to be at this point; defense comes first and foremost, but that's not the be-all-end-all factor (as seen by him giving up on DDV), character matters too. (Not saying anything about DDV since you wouldn't know for sure unless you are within the organization... or James Ham) Guys with the fighting spirit, guys who might not have been ascending from star to superstar before even stepping into the league.

Plus if this version doesn't pan out, it'd spell the end of McNair's tenure with the Kings anyway so why leave wiggle room so one can ponder and regret it later?

you think McNairs moves have signified that he thinks defense first?

 

[kingsboi]

Keon needs a year in the G-League, but he absolutely should have been drafted. His defense is going to play at the NBA level and a good year of development on his offense and he's got a shot to be a 3&D in the NBA. He's only 20 too, which surprised me a bit as a senior; thought he was 22.

maybe Keon will take a path in the same sense Payton II had with multiple G League stints and then finally getting his pay day after proving his worth in the league

 

[macadocious]

So how we feeling @SLAB ?

 

[iowamcnabb]

I don’t think this whole sequence was posted but if it was, too bad, watch it again

https://twitter.com/x/status/1544453886802423808

 

[SLAB]

So how we feeling @SLAB ?

Still middling. I still see a nice professional package, won’t be a bust, but question how high a level his game is going to translate against the elite of the elite in the NBA.

 

[Kings49ers]

Still middling. I still see a nice professional package, won’t be a bust, but question how high a level his game is going to translate against the elite of the elite in the NBA.

ISO/face up, passing, handling, strength need to improve definitely but with his talked about work ethic and BBIQ I feel confident he’ll improve in those areas. How much so is the million dollar question as you said.

 

[kingsfan101]

He's too slow on both ends. Might end up following Hassan Whiteside's arc. G-League, bounces around, gets one big contract, then the bench.

Hassan was an all-star. If Queta can achieve that level, I'll be ecstatic (as long as it's with us).

 

[NiNetNiNe]

Hassan was an all-star. If Queta can achieve that level, I'll be ecstatic (as long as it's with us).

Queta has shown flashes of everything you could want from a big man: being able to handle guards on the switch, shooting, passing, defense and post moves. But all of it is at a average to below average level. I'm hoping our new set of coaches can get him to process things and get better, because he has improved but he needs to improve more.

 

[SacTownKid]

ISO/face up, passing, handling, strength need to improve definitely but with his talked about work ethic and BBIQ I feel confident he’ll improve in those areas. How much so is the million dollar question as you said.

I just hope they don't force the issue too much and risk wrecking his game like this franchise did with Bagley. If you draft a fairly developed 21-22 year old, play to his strengths above all else. I liked what I saw in terms of handling it so far by coach Fernandez. First game was strengths, 2nd game was a test, then back to finish it off positively after looking at the gaps again earlier.

 

[NYKingsfan57]

I love the way Keegan conducts himself. All business all the time. Doesn't bring attention to himself. That is refreshing in today's NBA. He's very easy to root for. As to the player comp, that is very difficult. If he was two inches taller, my comp would be Al Horford. My closest comp, as others have suggested, is Tobias Harris (who I know personally...but I diverge). He looks solid, the stroke is sweet, the defensive awareness seems present. There is alot to like. Monte got this one right.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

ISO/face up, passing, handling, strength need to improve definitely but with his talked about work ethic and BBIQ I feel confident he’ll improve in those areas. How much so is the million dollar question as you said.

the good thing is all of those areas are pretty easy to improve upon if he puts in the work.. Passing is probably the hardest.. but playing beside Sabonis will be contagious and i'm sure he'll learn a lot from him. He just needs a cuple go to shots off the bounce, i'm sure he'll add a pull up J and some sort of floater.

 

[Ozymandias]

In order for Ivey to produce at the level sports fandom wants, he needs to have the keys to the car. Ain't happening with Fox and Sabonis taking up the first two seats, and a coaching staff looking for the playoffs.

Detroit is a great landing spot for him, personal narrative aside (which I think is more of a detriment). He's not being counted on to produce wins this year, just stats, and is surrounded by players like Cunningham and Bey, who provide complimentary skills.

If thats the case, it's probably not going to happen in detroit either... With Cade around he's going to be the complimentary piece..

 

[Kings49ers]

the good thing is all of those areas are pretty easy to improve upon if he puts in the work.. Passing is probably the hardest.. but playing beside Sabonis will be contagious and i'm sure he'll learn a lot from him. He just needs a cuple go to shots off the bounce in the midrange, i'm sure he'll add a pull up J and some sort of floater.

Like Sactownkid said I don’t think the coaching staff will force the playmaking aspect of his game, it would be extremely unnecessary with Fox, Mitchell, Sabonis and even Monk to a degree on the team he shouldn’t really have to. Brown will push him defensively but on offense he’s here for his shot right now, he’s already very active on the boards.

But as you touched on having Sabonis and even Holmes here for Keegan to learn from will be huge, both bring different skill sets to the table who he can learn from and grow to be. I really hope the work ethic we heard so much about wasn’t all pre-draft coach talk, his past make up and career so far lead me to believe it isn’t. If he has that work ethic to not only develop his game but himself physically we might really have something here with the skills he already brings to the table.

 

[KainLear]

you think McNairs moves have signified that he thinks defense first?

I think so, yes. The way he chased after DDV at first, picking Davion Mitchell, hiring Mike Brown (who kinda low-key called out Fox in his press about that dog defensively), I think that McNair wants to start everything from defense and runs a fast-paced simple offense (high post with Sabonis holding helm, if you ask me, and score easy points with all the moving and cutting). Speaking of, I miss Jaeger's run-you-out-of-the-gym style... haha

 

[iowamcnabb]

I don’t have anything to base this on but Sabonis strikes me as someone who could teach the game, just a gut feeling really. I could see him having a huge impact on Keegan’s development as a passer

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Like Sactownkid said I don’t think the coaching staff will force the playmaking aspect of his game, it would be extremely unnecessary with Fox, Mitchell, Sabonis and even Monk to a degree on the team he shouldn’t really have to. Brown will push him defensively but on offense he’s here for his shot right now, he’s already very active on the boards.

But as you touched on having Sabonis and even Holmes here for Keegan to learn from will be huge, both bring different skill sets to the table who he can learn from and grow to be. I really hope the work ethic we heard so much about wasn’t all pre-draft coach talk, his past make up and career so far lead me to believe it isn’t. If he has that work ethic to not only develop his game but himself physically we might really have something here with the skills he already brings to the table.

Huerters a really good passer aswell, thats one area i think they really improved on this offseason. The ball movement has potential to be great next year.. Murrays a system player his passing will come naturally to him once he learns the offense and his teammates tendencies. Summer league is just hectic.. im not surprised by his increased T/Os.. His work ethic will be elite tho, hes a basketball cyborg

 

[gilly420]

Whoever ends up starting, I feel like we are pretty deep. Our second unit should be a plus unit, some combo of Mitchell/Td/Monk/Murray/Liles/Holmes/Metu should be fun to watch against other teams bench players.