2017 Team Discussion and Possible Trades

[Jeremy Fraser]

Do you guys really think we need to/should include Gay in a Millsap deal?

We would have to give them WCS, but couldn't McLemore be enough to get the deal done? They want to go younger, and they get someone to try out as a Korver replacement. With Gay, they just get a contract to dump.

Plus, I am hesitant to trade Gay while Dragic is available since Miami supposedly wants him.

There's 0 chance we get Millsap without Gay being involved. Ben has 0 value and WCS has very little value. We'd have to start including guys like Skal/Malachi, Kosta and Temple with a trade centered around WCS and half a season of Millsap is in no way worth that.

If Gay would be the centerpiece of a Dragic or Millsap trade, I don't see why you'd take the Dragic one. We are competent at PG. Dragic is an upgrade, but not significant enough to put us over the top. On the other hand, our best PF of the past decade is Jason Thompson. He was so clearly the best PF we have had the past decade that he managed to play the most games in Sacramento Kings history. Jason Thompson was abysmal. So what I'm saying is that Millsap might be that piece who actually can take us over the top. We've had Collison/Rondo/IT at point. Nothing special, but not a severe lack of talent. We have yet to see a competent PF next to Cuz let alone a really good one like Millsap.

 

[Blob]

There's 0 chance we get Millsap without Gay being involved. Ben has 0 value and WCS has very little value. We'd have to start including guys like Skal/Malachi, Kosta and Temple with a trade centered around WCS and half a season of Millsap is in no way worth that.

If Gay would be the centerpiece of a Dragic or Millsap trade, I don't see why you'd take the Dragic one. We are competent at PG. Dragic is an upgrade, but not significant enough to put us over the top. On the other hand, our best PF of the past decade is Jason Thompson. He was so clearly the best PF we have had the past decade that he managed to play the most games in Sacramento Kings history. Jason Thompson was abysmal. So what I'm saying is that Millsap might be that piece who actually can take us over the top. We've had Collison/Rondo/IT at point. Nothing special, but not a severe lack of talent. We have yet to see a competent PF next to Cuz let alone a really good one like Millsap.

Spot-on. Koufos and Willie can't direct an offense from the top of the key. They are pick and roll players, not high post players, and one reason Willie has struggled in this system. He's not comfortable with the ball away from the hoop. Millsap is, and would fit nicely into Joerger scheme, with him and Boogie interchangeable. The last time I check his assist to turnover was 2.3 twice rate of Boogie, who is passing and handling the ball well. We haven't had a PF like Millsap who can play inside and outside since I don't know when. Jason Thompson and Willie are similar in being befuddled as running high post offense, treating the ball like a hot potato that can't wait to get rid of, telegraphing passes two seconds before they occur. The issue would be mitigated if they were low post threats, but that's a negative too. Pick and roll game is Willie's strength, but he doesn't have Rondo to make him look better than he is. Hence the need for a guy like Millsap to fill the biggest void on the team.

 

[NoBonus]

Thinking about Millsap for Gay & pieces...

Why would the Kings do this? Is Millsap that good? Gay and Millsap are free agents, so... does getting Millsap improve the Kings enough to get into the playoffs?

If Millsap is not enough to secure the 8th seed, why give up prospects to get him? If the Kings could trade someone other than Gay and get Millsap, you could make a wave in the playoffs in the hopes you resign one or both of Gay/Millsap, sure.

 

[ESP47]

There's 0 chance we get Millsap without Gay being involved. Ben has 0 value and WCS has very little value. We'd have to start including guys like Skal/Malachi, Kosta and Temple with a trade centered around WCS and half a season of Millsap is in no way worth that.

If Gay would be the centerpiece of a Dragic or Millsap trade, I don't see why you'd take the Dragic one. We are competent at PG. Dragic is an upgrade, but not significant enough to put us over the top. On the other hand, our best PF of the past decade is Jason Thompson. He was so clearly the best PF we have had the past decade that he managed to play the most games in Sacramento Kings history. Jason Thompson was abysmal. So what I'm saying is that Millsap might be that piece who actually can take us over the top. We've had Collison/Rondo/IT at point. Nothing special, but not a severe lack of talent. We have yet to see a competent PF next to Cuz let alone a really good one like Millsap.

The only knock on Millsap, as you said, is the fact that we would only be getting him for half a season. Dragic is on a longer term contract. He wouldn't upgrade the team as much as Millsap would but lets face it, Millsap isn't resigning here. So basically we would be trading away Gay for a half season rental of a guy who would legitimately help us get comfortable into the #8 seed, only to win 1 game or get swept in the first round of the playoffs. After that he's gone and we're left with nothing to show for it other than a first round exit and a depleted team.

I'd rather get the guy who can stay here next to Cuz for a few years. I don't think Miami is going to deal us Dragic, but his age + contract scare me. The good is that he's on a multi year contract but the bad is that he's already 3o. Would hate to get stuck under a bad contract but would also hate to deal our trade pieces away for next to nothing as well. It'll be interesting to see what happens here. We just can't rely on trading for guys in the hopes that they'll resign with us because the odds of that are low.

 

[biltalent]

Again more whispers that Atlanta is not interested in blowing their team up completely. According to Keith Smith they do want to get younger but they also don't want to wait for these players.

Keith Smith ‏@KeithSmithNBA 3 Std.Vor 3 Stunden
Nothing new on the Millsap front early this morning. Lots of teams talking to Atlanta who is patiently sorting through offers.

Keith Smith ‏@KeithSmithNBA 3 Std.Vor 3 Stunden
No firm details. ATL wants young but ready to play players & "good" contracts. Either expiring or non-prohibitive ones. ATL is not tanking.

If that is the case, it increases the value of our offer, especially compared to New Orleans/Denver. We can offer expirings in Afflalo/Gay and we have young talent that may hasn't set the world on fire yet but can contribute now in WCS/Ben. New Orleans and Denver on the other hand can/will probably only offer future picks (New Orleans) or has to include long term contracts (Denver).

 

[CelticsFan]

There's 0 chance we get Millsap without Gay being involved. Ben has 0 value and WCS has very little value. We'd have to start including guys like Skal/Malachi, Kosta and Temple with a trade centered around WCS and half a season of Millsap is in no way worth that.

If Gay would be the centerpiece of a Dragic or Millsap trade, I don't see why you'd take the Dragic one. We are competent at PG. Dragic is an upgrade, but not significant enough to put us over the top. On the other hand, our best PF of the past decade is Jason Thompson. He was so clearly the best PF we have had the past decade that he managed to play the most games in Sacramento Kings history. Jason Thompson was abysmal. So what I'm saying is that Millsap might be that piece who actually can take us over the top. We've had Collison/Rondo/IT at point. Nothing special, but not a severe lack of talent. We have yet to see a competent PF next to Cuz let alone a really good one like Millsap.

Why would Gay be a centerpiece for an ATL trade? He's expiring, if they trade Milsap won't they go into some sort of rebuild? Kings have to decide are you looking to compete for the playoffs or are you looking to rebuild? If your looking to make the playoffs then like most teams trying to compete you need to get better by the deadline. You have to give up something to get something. Are most fans that want to make the playoffs really worried about giving up any of the players we drafted this season? Guys drafted in the 20's you hope turn into role players. Yes of course some guys drafted that late turn into really good players but most of the time they are roll players or out of the NBA in a few years. I'm surprised at how much people are in love with the rookies, these guys have literally done nothing and can't even make the rotation today.

If Kings just miss the playoffs then they lose their pick. You have to choose if you're going to make a run or not you can't go half ass.

 

[CelticsFan]

Why would Gay be a centerpiece for an ATL trade? He's expiring, if they trade Milsap won't they go into some sort of rebuild? Kings have to decide are you looking to compete for the playoffs or are you looking to rebuild? If your looking to make the playoffs then like most teams trying to compete you need to get better by the deadline. You have to give up something to get something. Are most fans that want to make the playoffs really worried about giving up any of the players we drafted this season? Guys drafted in the 20's you hope turn into role players. Yes of course some guys drafted that late turn into really good players but most of the time they are roll players or out of the NBA in a few years. I'm surprised at how much people are in love with the rookies, these guys have literally done nothing and can't even make the rotation today.

If Kings just miss the playoffs then they lose their pick. You have to choose if you're going to make a run or not you can't go half ass.

I also wanted to add that other teams want Milsap too, to think we are just going to get Milsap without giving anything up of real value is crazy.

 

[dude12]

Why would Gay be a centerpiece for an ATL trade? He's expiring, if they trade Milsap won't they go into some sort of rebuild? Kings have to decide are you looking to compete for the playoffs or are you looking to rebuild? If your looking to make the playoffs then like most teams trying to compete you need to get better by the deadline. You have to give up something to get something. Are most fans that want to make the playoffs really worried about giving up any of the players we drafted this season? Guys drafted in the 20's you hope turn into role players. Yes of course some guys drafted that late turn into really good players but most of the time they are roll players or out of the NBA in a few years. I'm surprised at how much people are in love with the rookies, these guys have literally done nothing and can't even make the rotation today.

If Kings just miss the playoffs then they lose their pick. You have to choose if you're going to make a run or not you can't go half ass.

Funny how you talk about the Kings rookies this year but if they were on the Celtics, then their value would be much greater...because they are a Celtic. Remember all the talk about Rozier and his value.....he's a possible starter in the future but more likely a role player and there's nothing wrong with that. Not trying to bust your chops or pick on you.

I'd be hesitant to deal the rookies this year for a rental of Millsap. I'd be willing to deal Ben obviously but WCS too as he doesn't really fit what Joerger wants to do. Joerger has won with role players sprinkled with Gasol, Zbo and Conley. We aren't too far off....really could use a Millsap under contract and a new PG rotation.

Gay, Collison and WCS should get it done.
Sign Farmer to come off bench as backup PG behind Lawson
Activate or have Skal or Papa as depth

We would be instantly better right now with that.

 

[whozit]

I also wanted to add that other teams want Milsap too, to think we are just going to get Milsap without giving anything up of real value is crazy.

On the Jim Rome show this subject was brought up with Vlade. It didn't sound like Vlade was willing to sacrifice the future for short term gains. Stated it would have to make sense.

He also didn't absolutely rule out trading Cousins. Left a slight sliver for a "godfather deal," if offered.

 

[Kingster]

It's hard to conceive that Gay has much value. He's still injured. It seems like he's injured every year for a good stretch of time. Certainly doesn't have what it takes in crunch time. He's a lot of hat and no cattle kind of guy.

 

[CelticsFan]

Funny how you talk about the Kings rookies this year but if they were on the Celtics, then their value would be much greater...because they are a Celtic. Remember all the talk about Rozier and his value.....he's a possible starter in the future but more likely a role player and there's nothing wrong with that.

Not a Celtics thread but with Rozier it isn't about talent its about numbers. Unfortunately he's stuck behind an all star PG and a young PG in Smart that somehow learned to play PG in the offseason (Smart was projected to play off the ball). It's hard to get minutes as a 3rd string PG.

When it comes to Celtics rookies Jaylen Brown is young and doesn't get much playing time but you can see why he was drafted 3rd overall, the talent is there. Celtics also drafted Zizic and Yabusele in the 1st round. Both guys are having good seasons overseas but overseas and the D league are a hell of a lot different then the NBA. Will those guys pan out, who knows? I can tell you that I would be more then willing to give up either one of those guys for a rental of Milsap.

Do any of these players excite you if you were another team looking to trade a fan favorite and all star? Do you think all these players have as high value as the Kings pics or do you think we just happened to draft the best out of the group? Point is most likely the players listed here will turn into roll players or be out of the league in a few years, IMO they don't have a TON of value like some posters think.

 

[whozit]

Not a Celtics thread but with Rozier it isn't about talent its about numbers. Unfortunately he's stuck behind an all star PG and a young PG in Smart that somehow learned to play PG in the offseason (Smart was projected to play off the ball). It's hard to get minutes as a 3rd string PG.

When it comes to Celtics rookies Jaylen Brown is young and doesn't get much playing time but you can see why he was drafted 3rd overall, the talent is there. Celtics also drafted Zizic and Yabusele in the 1st round. Both guys are having good seasons overseas but overseas and the D league are a hell of a lot different then the NBA. Will those guys pan out, who knows? I can tell you that I would be more then willing to give up either one of those guys for a rental of Milsap.

Do any of these players excite you if you were another team looking to trade a fan favorite and all star? Do you think all these players have as high value as the Kings pics or do you think we just happened to draft the best out of the group? Point is most likely the players listed here will turn into roll players or be out of the league in a few years, IMO they don't have a TON of value like some posters think.

View attachment 6164

Value is in the eye of the beholder. They may not have much value to Atlanta but they quite possibly might be too high a cost for the Kings whose cupboard is mightily bare.

Atlanta on the other hand probably values Milsap more than just an exchange of expirings. And if that is the case, I don't see an exchange that is good for the Kings in terms of risk/reward.

 

[CelticsFan]

[quote="whozit, post: 1294006, member: 267"]Value is in the eye of the beholder[/quote]

Yes I agree with you value is in the eye of the beholder but unfortunately when making a trade it doesn't matter what we think of our assets it matters what the other team thinks of them

 

[biltalent]

Yes I agree with you value is in the eye of the beholder but unfortunately when making a trade it doesn't matter what we think of our assets it matters what the other team thinks of them

Exactly, and the best evidence we have right now is that the Kings can actually put together a decent package that is more valuable to the Hawks than for any other team. That is because it seems they want ending contracts plus young players that are ready to play, as I pointed out before. Not saying a deal is going to happen but I don't see New Orleans or Orlando being able to offer that.

 

[whozit]

[quote="whozit, post: 1294006, member: 267"]Value is in the eye of the beholder

Yes I agree with you value is in the eye of the beholder but unfortunately when making a trade it doesn't matter what we think of our assets it matters what the other team thinks of them

It's why I don't think a trade between the teams is feasible. If the Kings trade what little youth they have and Milsap walks, that causes just a little more than a bit of problem.

 

[whozit]

Exactly, and the best evidence we have right now is that the Kings can actually put together a decent package that is more valuable to the Hawks than for any other team. That is because it seems they want ending contracts plus young players that are ready to play, as I pointed out before. Not saying a deal is going to happen but I don't see New Orleans or Orlando being able to offer that.

Divac in his interview with Rome stated that the Kings have to keep the future in mind when making any deal. (paraphrasing)

 

[CelticsFan]

Exactly, and the best evidence we have right now is that the Kings can actually put together a decent package that is more valuable to the Hawks than for any other team. That is because it seems they want ending contracts plus young players that are ready to play, as I pointed out before. Not saying a deal is going to happen but I don't see New Orleans or Orlando being able to offer that.

What good young players ready to play players do the Kings have? What players on good contract do you think the ATL would be interested in?

 

[biltalent]

What good young players ready to play players do the Kings have? What players on good contract do you think the ATL would be interested in?

Well, you and I both know that you are not going to agree with me, but yes, I would consider Mclemore and Cauley-Stein young players (both are still on their rookie deals) that are ready to play (both played more minutes than you expect at their age). Now whether you consider them to be "good" or to have "potential" is a subjective judgement and as you said yourself, that is in the eye of the beholder. Who knows what the Hawks are thinking? Maybe they like the option of looking at Mclemore for half a season before deciding whether to bring him back for 4 years more than expected?

Let me direct the question back to you as well: Which team do you think can offer a better package of "play now" young players without having to send back long term contracts?

 

[Hoovtrain]

On the Jim Rome show this subject was brought up with Vlade. It didn't sound like Vlade was willing to sacrifice the future for short term gains. Stated it would have to make sense.

He also didn't absolutely rule out trading Cousins. Left a slight sliver for a "godfather deal," if offered.

On one hand I get not wanting to mortgage the future, but on the other hand they don't really seem to have any promising young talent. Then couple that with the fact I'm any other setting they would most likely not be able to land a player of Milsaps caliber without making a trade like this.

 

[whozit]

On one hand I get not wanting to mortgage the future, but on the other hand they don't really seem to have any promising young talent. Then couple that with the fact I'm any other setting they would most likely not be able to land a player of Milsaps caliber without making a trade like this.

And if they were able to make the trade, what would you put the odds of resigning him? That is the huge question coupled with at what cost.

 

[Hoovtrain]

And if they were able to make the trade, what would you put the odds of resigning him? That is the huge question coupled with at what cost.

My guess is they would have to max him out...but when you factor in that they most likely wouldn't be players in FA anyways, I guess it wouldn't be too far fetched

 

[biltalent]

According to Woj Denver just cleared a roster spot by waiving Gee.

 

[CelticsFan]

Well, you and I both know that you are not going to agree with me, but yes, I would consider Mclemore and Cauley-Stein young players (both are still on their rookie deals) that are ready to play (both played more minutes than you expect at their age). Now whether you consider them to be "good" or to have "potential" is a subjective judgement and as you said yourself, that is in the eye of the beholder. Who knows what the Hawks are thinking? Maybe they like the option of looking at Mclemore for half a season before deciding whether to bring him back for 4 years more than expected?

Let me direct the question back to you as well: Which team do you think can offer a better package of "play now" young players without having to send back long term contracts?

NO-They own all of their picks could offer T Jones, Tyreke, Solomon Hill, Buddy Hield, Cheick Diallo
Raps-2017 Clips pick, All of their own, Delon Wright, Powell, Bruno, Patterson, Nogueira, Poelti, Siakam
Nuggets-Ton of assets, we know them don't need to list them

 

[biltalent]

NO-They own all of their picks could offer T Jones, Tyreke, Solomon Hill, Buddy Hield, Cheick Diallo
Raps-2017 Clips pick, All of their own, Delon Wright, Powell, Bruno, Patterson, Nogueira, Poelti, Siakam
Nuggets-Ton of assets, we know them don't need to list them

Got me. I should have included the condition that the respective team would be willing to trade them, what I dont see them doing. NO offer apparently is their first + 76ers secound rounder. Toronto doesnt want to include Ross/Patterson. But thats just based on reports of course. Who knows if they are true. I guess we will just have to wait and see

 

[Kingsfan23]

It would have to stop at around WCS for me.. Milsap is 32 and expiring

The one advantage the Kings might have is their ability to overpay Milsap out if others are questionable on doing so. It might give other teams pause in trading for him if it is known that the Kings will overpay this summer

Still don't see how the Hawks are super leveraged to trade him, and on the Rome show today Vlade made clear he won't overpay with youth for a few month rental

 

[itzcoatl]

NO-They own all of their picks could offer T Jones, Tyreke, Solomon Hill, Buddy Hield, Cheick Diallo
Raps-2017 Clips pick, All of their own, Delon Wright, Powell, Bruno, Patterson, Nogueira, Poelti, Siakam
Nuggets-Ton of assets, we know them don't need to list them

If I was the GM of any of those teams I doubt that I'd be willing to throw in a young asset like Hield or Poeltl or whoever for a half-season of Millsap when I could just try to sign him in the off-season anyway. I could be off base. I do think those are good packages but I just don't see those being offered. We'll find out soon!

 

[dude12]

Well, you and I both know that you are not going to agree with me, but yes, I would consider Mclemore and Cauley-Stein young players (both are still on their rookie deals) that are ready to play (both played more minutes than you expect at their age). Now whether you consider them to be "good" or to have "potential" is a subjective judgement and as you said yourself, that is in the eye of the beholder. Who knows what the Hawks are thinking? Maybe they like the option of looking at Mclemore for half a season before deciding whether to bring him back for 4 years more than expected?

Let me direct the question back to you as well: Which team do you think can offer a better package of "play now" young players without having to send back long term contracts?

Agreed on Ben and WCS.....Ben needs a change of scenery and a different system and he would fit in with a team that is tank mode who can play him and allow him to make mistakes while seeing if he can become a role player.

WCS is not a fit here in Joerger's system. Put him in another system and I think he contributes. I think it's a team that will run where he can have some success as he did with Karl.

So I'm not of the opinion that these 2 guys have zero value. Might not be high value but with Millsap being an expiring, then yes, these guys could be enough.

 

[kingsboi]

I'm glad to hear that Vlade came out and said it himself that he is not willing to give away what young assets the Kings do possess for a expiring contract, that's asinine IMO. I honestly want to keep the roster in tact sans Gay and move forward with that and hope that it's good enough to remain in the lottery, otherwise...it's a lost season even if they get the 8th seed IMO.

 

[KingMilz]

Thinking about Millsap for Gay & pieces...

Why would the Kings do this? Is Millsap that good? Gay and Millsap are free agents, so... does getting Millsap improve the Kings enough to get into the playoffs?

If Millsap is not enough to secure the 8th seed, why give up prospects to get him? If the Kings could trade someone other than Gay and get Millsap, you could make a wave in the playoffs in the hopes you resign one or both of Gay/Millsap, sure.

Yes Millsap is the best player on a team 4 games over 500. and was a few seasons ago arguably the best player on a 60 win team the guy is really good I'm not saying we should trade for him but Millsap is one of the most criminally underrated players in the last 5-10 years to me if we get Millsap we 100% lose our pick and make the playoffs he's currently that good

 

[twslam07]

Yes Millsap is the best player on a team 4 games over 500. and was a few seasons ago arguably the best player on a 60 win team the guy is really good I'm not saying we should trade for him but Millsap is one of the most criminally underrated players in the last 5-10 years to me if we get Millsap we 100% lose our pick and make the playoffs he's currently that good

Yeah, I'd put him like top 20 or 25 player pretty easily. He's good enough to be an elite #2 guy. Cousins & Millsap would easily be the best frontcourt in the league. It would be a lot of fun watching them play.