2016 NBA Draft Lottery Selection -- May 17th

Where will we pick this year?

  • 2 -- The curse of Arco has been lifted!

    Votes: 21 27.6%

  • 3 -- I'll take it!

    Votes: 8 10.5%

  • 8 -- Meh

    Votes: 30 39.5%

  • 9 -- Really?

    Votes: 9 11.8%

  • 10 -- I wouldn't be surprised...

    Votes: 2 2.6%

  • 11 -- Burn it all down!!!

    Votes: 3 3.9%

  • 4 -- We won! But we lost! Yes!

    Votes: 3 3.9%
  • Total voters
    76
Best case tonight is we get 1st pick Philly gets 2nd pick and they swap. We than ship #2 and Ben for Jimmy Butler.
Or Gay/2 for Blake Griffin
 
randymoss1881 said:
Best case tonight is we get 1st pick Philly gets 2nd pick and they swap. We than ship #2 and Ben for Jimmy Butler.
Or Gay/2 for Blake Griffin
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fixed it for you.

my season tickets are all on sale if Blake is a King.

I do hope we trade the pick tho - whatever position it falls.
 
Do people really want to trade the pick? We tried the 'win now and at all cost' route and we're right back in the lottery.

I think the KHTK morning show talked about our roster if we had kept all of our picks since 2009. We would have been just fine right now. Probably in the playoffs.
 
we did keep all of our picks. we just picked the wrong people. would we have been fine if we kept Jimmer, Stauskas, and Thomas Robinson? We kept Boogie, WCS, and Mclemore. only other first rounder was Tyreke and we didn't trade him. just didn't sign when contract was up.
 
I will not suffer one moment of angst if the Kings land the #1 pick. That's a loser's mentality. What's done is done. So if we have to swap and end up with #2 to #4, oh well. That's a win! That's better than not moving up. You can't look back. You can only look forward. (Trite but true)

And look at it this way: Maybe the guy we land at #4 is a better player than #1. It happened in the Steph Curry draft and it can happen again. So these myopic commenters not here but on StR who say something to the effect "if we move up only to have to surrender our pick...yada yada...would be such a Kangz thing to happen" are only myopic in their thought process. These are the same fans who thought Jason Thompson was a good player and ignore the fact he has been waived twice and can't beat out Biyombo and Noguera for playing time.....LOL LOL LOL.

That said, I expect us to get the 8th pick tonight.....and target Dunn (if he falls), Jaylen Brown or Sabonis. Any of these guys will be great!!!!!
 
funkykingston said:
I originally thought I'd be really upset if the Kings landed the top pick and were forced to swap with the Sixers. But now I don't think so. Jumping from 8 to 4 would still improve the Kings chances of getting Dunn or Hield or Bender or Murray if he's the guy.

And for a "two man draft" the reality is that I only really want one of them. I think Simmons is an incredibly talented kid but he'd be a horrible fit with Cousins. In fact, the only way Ben Simmons works for the Kings is if they decide to blow everything up. Trade Cousins, trade Rudy, let Rondo walk etc. Because Simmons is essentially Rondo in a SF/PF body. On running team with shooters - maybe Boston or Phoenix I could see him being something special, but unless the Kings are willing to start over I don't see him as the right player for this team.

Brandon Ingram could be fantastic with Cousins and eventually the true #2 option the team needs. But he's not the only player that could help this team.

When we get upset that the Kings missed out on guys like CJ McCollum, Andre Drummond, Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, etc it's worth noting that all of those guys went 8th or later in the draft. I don't really care where the Kings pick - I would just really like this to be another year (like 2010 with Cousins or last year with WCS) where I'm happy with the Kings pick and I'm not looking back at the draft pining for 2 or 3 guys that the team passed on who have become great players.

It will be nice to have the lottery over with so we can have a clearer picture of where the Kings stand. Two years ago I went into the season with low expectations only to see the team rebound from a opening night blowout and show some real signs of life under Malone before he was bizarrely fired. Last year I went into the season with relatively high expectations (7th or 8th seed team) only to watch the wheels come off completely.

I'd like to finish this offseason with high expectations AND see that actually translate to success on the court next year in a season short on drama and high on entertainment.

Draft. Trades. Free Agency.

Come on Divac, Catanella, Joerger, Stojakovic, Bratz & co. Let's go three for three this offseason.
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You are way underselling Ben Simmons, IMHO. You know why this kid does not shoot or make jumpers? One of the main reasons is he doesn't have to. He's physically dominant and so skilled at his size against collegiate opponents that he does not have to settle for perimeter jumpers. I think where your analysis is slightly off is to conclude that he can't shoot from the outside, when in fact, it is more due to the fact he doesn't have to. Now he needs to improve that aspect of his game, no doubt, but at his age and his display of coordination and agility, there's no reason to think he cannot get better. I liken Simmons to a more advanced version of Lamar Odom, and before that guy had all sorts of personal issues, he was a heck of a player. I'd take a Lamar Odom on my team in his prime any day (WITH BOOGIE), and Simmons can be better than that.
 
whoopdeedoo said:
Do the Sixers have the option to decline the pick swap and use it next year if the Kings pick ahead of them? Say they would be happy with Ingram or Simmons (or anyone else), it might be in their best interest to save the swap for a future year if allowed. This disregards the possibility of another team offering them a King's ransom to trade up which could also be a possibility.
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My understanding is that the Sixers have the option to use the pick swap in 2017 regardless of whether or not they use it in 2016 - in other words, I believe it is two separate pick swaps, not one pick swap with flexible timing. (I equivocate because reporting on such issues sometimes turns out a bit fuzzy - if the reporting is right, it's two separate pick swaps.)
 
Entity said:
we did keep all of our picks. we just picked the wrong people. would we have been fine if we kept Jimmer, Stauskas, and Thomas Robinson? We kept Boogie, WCS, and Mclemore. only other first rounder was Tyreke and we didn't trade him. just didn't sign when contract was up.
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We didn't keep Tyreke or IT or Whiteside either. You have a starting lineup there. I didn't specify 1st rounder. Draft smart and show the appropriate amount of patience.
 
Yeah, I can't get excited for the draft anymore. Not with our franchise's record.

Of course those idiots are all gone now and Vlade picked a good one last year, so. .... I reckon if I'm not excited, at least I'm optimistic!

Anyways, here's to our annual drop in positioning!
 
Capt. Factorial said:
My understanding is that the Sixers have the option to use the pick swap in 2017 regardless of whether or not they use it in 2016 - in other words, I believe it is two separate pick swaps, not one pick swap with flexible timing. (I equivocate because reporting on such issues sometimes turns out a bit fuzzy - if the reporting is right, it's two separate pick swaps.)
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Thanks. I have heard / read it a few different ways but have not kept up on it and seen anything recently that seemed definitive. Do you know if there are any rules in place that say trades have to be made public? The details always seem to come out from secondary sources and are normally pretty clear with little disagreement. I can't actually recall there being as much confusion as I had seen with the parameters of this Kings swap before. But again, I have not actually looked into it for some months so maybe it's been cleared up since.
 
whoopdeedoo said:
Thanks. I have heard / read it a few different ways but have not kept up on it and seen anything recently that seemed definitive. Do you know if there are any rules in place that say trades have to be made public? The details always seem to come out from secondary sources and are normally pretty clear with little disagreement. I can't actually recall there being as much confusion as I had seen with the parameters of this Kings swap before. But again, I have not actually looked into it for some months so maybe it's been cleared up since.
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I'm not really sure if there's any specific rule that says that trades have to be made public. Obviously if a player is dealt, people will figure it out. But reporting often gets a bit muddy, especially on complicated draft pick trades like our swap(s) with Philly. I like the following site:

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

as a definitive resource, but I'm not really sure where they get their info - they probably get it from media reports. For instance, they claim that we can only convey a 2018 first round pick to Philly if we convey the 2016 pick to Chicago. This would naturally be because if we convey the 2017 first round pick to Chicago, the Stepien rule would prevent us from trading the 2018 first rounder. However, it's perfectly plausible that we might not convey either a 2016 or a 2017 first rounder to Chicago, because the 2017 pick is also top-10 protected. In that case it would be Stepien-legal for us to trade our 2018 first to Philly if it fell outside of its protection window. The trade could have been written like that, but we don't really know if it was.

I'm unaware (but would love to be made aware) of any official league site that lists detailed trade transactions where things like this could be definitively cleared up. So we have to go with the best we can figure unless it turns out otherwise.
 
I don't think there is any official wording of Stepien rule available as, I believe, it's a by-law and those are not made public.
Here's Larry Coon's take on it:
When dealing with protected picks, the Stepien rule is interpreted to mean that teams can't trade a pick if there is any chance it will leave the team without a first round pick in consecutive future drafts.
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This explains why, if Kings keep the pick today, Sixers will have unprotected pick in 2019.
 
So... What does Dikembe know that we dont...?

Just posted to his twitter:

upload_2016-5-17_13-49-17.png


And I'm glad i took a screenshot. Looks like the tweet was deleted.
 
Gilles said:
I don't think there is any official wording of Stepien rule available as, I believe, it's a by-law and those are not made public.
Here's Larry Coon's take on it:

"When dealing with protected picks, the Stepien rule is interpreted to mean that teams can't trade a pick if there is any chance it will leave the team without a first round pick in consecutive future drafts."

This explains why, if Kings keep the pick today, Sixers will have unprotected pick in 2019.
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I don't think there's any conflict with the scenario I proposed above and the Stepien Rule.

Teams have been using conditional trades for years to avoid running afoul of the Stepien Rule. In fact, the very trade in question is already a conditional trade. The real question is what the exact conditions are.

To be specific, the trade is typically reported as "2018 protected if 2016 to Chicago, otherwise 2019". This would mean we would keep 2017 and potentially trade 2018, Stepien Rule is satisfied.

However, the trade could also have been worded "2018 protected if Kings keep 2017 pick, otherwise 2019". This would ALSO mean we would keep 2017 and potentially trade 2018, and should be just as firmly legal under the Stepien Rule as the first formulation.

The difference between the two trade wordings is that the first covers only one scenario under which we keep our 2017 first rounder - that we send the 2016 first to Chicago. The second covers both scenarios under which we keep our 2017 pick - sending the 2016 to Chicago OR keeping the 2017 first round pick because it falls between 1-10 and sending a 2017 second round pick to satisfy the JJ Hickson trade. Both trades are conditional, both are equally legal under the Stepien Rule, but one has what you could call incomplete coverage. And to the best of my knowledge we don't know how the actual trade is literally worded.
 
chasen4r1 said:
So... What does Dikembe know that we dont...?
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Considering the lottery hasn't been done yet, that was probably an error. Like he looked on Wikipedia, saw the Sixers in the first spot, and thought the lottery had already been done.
 
Blob said:
You are way underselling Ben Simmons, IMHO. You know why this kid does not shoot or make jumpers? One of the main reasons is he doesn't have to. He's physically dominant and so skilled at his size against collegiate opponents that he does not have to settle for perimeter jumpers. I think where your analysis is slightly off is to conclude that he can't shoot from the outside, when in fact, it is more due to the fact he doesn't have to. Now he needs to improve that aspect of his game, no doubt, but at his age and his display of coordination and agility, there's no reason to think he cannot get better. I liken Simmons to a more advanced version of Lamar Odom, and before that guy had all sorts of personal issues, he was a heck of a player. I'd take a Lamar Odom on my team in his prime any day (WITH BOOGIE), and Simmons can be better than that.
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Lamar Odom was a better shooter coming out of Rhode Island. LO took 3 threes per game and hit them at a 33% clip (33/100 for the year). Ben Simmons also averaged 33% on threes. But he was 1 for 3 on the season. That's 0.1 attempts per game. And he only averaged about 1.5 jump shots per game. There are some who wonder if he's not even shooting with the correct hand since he finishes almost all his drives with his right but shoots jumpers as a lefty.

Toward the end of the year teams were giving him the Rajon Rondo treatment - sagging off him and daring him to shoot and the vast majority of the time he wouldn't. There's a LOT to like about Simmons (rebounding, passing, ball handling, attacking the basket etc) but I honestly think there are two ways that he can succeed in the NBA.

(1) a team gives him the ball, plays an uptempo style and surrounds him with shooters and/or
(2) he develops a reliable jump shot

That said, there's nothing in Simmon's motion that looks broken and he's a very young kid. There have been a LOT of college players that were terrible shooters and became consistent shooters in the NBA.

I still don't see him as a great fit on a team with DeMarcus Cousins, but since the only likely way the Kings get Simmons is by trading DMC for him, that's kind of a moot point.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
Considering the lottery hasn't been done yet, that was probably an error. Like he looked on Wikipedia, saw the Sixers in the first spot, and thought the lottery had already been done.
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Doesn't the ping pong ball drawing take place before the telecast? ;)

Edit: I see that it hasn't, in fact, happened yet (or at least that's what they want us to think!!)
 
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I hope the Kings get #1, and Phila gets #2. I hope Phila switches with us so that we are forever rid of that encumbrance. And then I hope that Phila does something stupid and drafts some player that no one expected them to draft and we get the best player anyway.
 
Livinthedream said:
Do people really want to trade the pick? We tried the 'win now and at all cost' route and we're right back in the lottery.

I think the KHTK morning show talked about our roster if we had kept all of our picks since 2009. We would have been just fine right now. Probably in the playoffs.
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we're not really in the lottery. We had a team able to compete last year. It was hamstrung. That is over. And we are DEFINITELY in win now mode with a winning coach, new building, and eager Boogie nearing the end of his deal.

All depends on whether there is a rookie who can come in and with a fairly high degree of assurance contribute this season and next, not 3 years from now.

Obviously if you could actually somehow score an in-prime Top 15 payer for the pick and change, you just flat do that. Boogie and another Top 15 guy and a winning coach = playoffs and maybe more.
 
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