2016 NBA Draft Lottery Selection -- May 17th
- Thread starter New Era
- Start date
I will not suffer one moment of angst if the Kings land the #1 pick. That's a loser's mentality. What's done is done. So if we have to swap and end up with #2 to #4, oh well. That's a win! That's better than not moving up. You can't look back. You can only look forward. (Trite but true)
And look at it this way: Maybe the guy we land at #4 is a better player than #1. It happened in the Steph Curry draft and it can happen again. So these myopic commenters not here but on StR who say something to the effect "if we move up only to have to surrender our pick...yada yada...would be such a Kangz thing to happen" are only myopic in their thought process. These are the same fans who thought Jason Thompson was a good player and ignore the fact he has been waived twice and can't beat out Biyombo and Noguera for playing time.....LOL LOL LOL.
That said, I expect us to get the 8th pick tonight.....and target Dunn (if he falls), Jaylen Brown or Sabonis. Any of these guys will be great!!!!!
And look at it this way: Maybe the guy we land at #4 is a better player than #1. It happened in the Steph Curry draft and it can happen again. So these myopic commenters not here but on StR who say something to the effect "if we move up only to have to surrender our pick...yada yada...would be such a Kangz thing to happen" are only myopic in their thought process. These are the same fans who thought Jason Thompson was a good player and ignore the fact he has been waived twice and can't beat out Biyombo and Noguera for playing time.....LOL LOL LOL.
That said, I expect us to get the 8th pick tonight.....and target Dunn (if he falls), Jaylen Brown or Sabonis. Any of these guys will be great!!!!!
You are way underselling Ben Simmons, IMHO. You know why this kid does not shoot or make jumpers? One of the main reasons is he doesn't have to. He's physically dominant and so skilled at his size against collegiate opponents that he does not have to settle for perimeter jumpers. I think where your analysis is slightly off is to conclude that he can't shoot from the outside, when in fact, it is more due to the fact he doesn't have to. Now he needs to improve that aspect of his game, no doubt, but at his age and his display of coordination and agility, there's no reason to think he cannot get better. I liken Simmons to a more advanced version of Lamar Odom, and before that guy had all sorts of personal issues, he was a heck of a player. I'd take a Lamar Odom on my team in his prime any day (WITH BOOGIE), and Simmons can be better than that.
My understanding is that the Sixers have the option to use the pick swap in 2017 regardless of whether or not they use it in 2016 - in other words, I believe it is two separate pick swaps, not one pick swap with flexible timing. (I equivocate because reporting on such issues sometimes turns out a bit fuzzy - if the reporting is right, it's two separate pick swaps.)
Thanks. I have heard / read it a few different ways but have not kept up on it and seen anything recently that seemed definitive. Do you know if there are any rules in place that say trades have to be made public? The details always seem to come out from secondary sources and are normally pretty clear with little disagreement. I can't actually recall there being as much confusion as I had seen with the parameters of this Kings swap before. But again, I have not actually looked into it for some months so maybe it's been cleared up since.
I'm not really sure if there's any specific rule that says that trades have to be made public. Obviously if a player is dealt, people will figure it out. But reporting often gets a bit muddy, especially on complicated draft pick trades like our swap(s) with Philly. I like the following site:
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed
as a definitive resource, but I'm not really sure where they get their info - they probably get it from media reports. For instance, they claim that we can only convey a 2018 first round pick to Philly if we convey the 2016 pick to Chicago. This would naturally be because if we convey the 2017 first round pick to Chicago, the Stepien rule would prevent us from trading the 2018 first rounder. However, it's perfectly plausible that we might not convey either a 2016 or a 2017 first rounder to Chicago, because the 2017 pick is also top-10 protected. In that case it would be Stepien-legal for us to trade our 2018 first to Philly if it fell outside of its protection window. The trade could have been written like that, but we don't really know if it was.
I'm unaware (but would love to be made aware) of any official league site that lists detailed trade transactions where things like this could be definitively cleared up. So we have to go with the best we can figure unless it turns out otherwise.
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed
as a definitive resource, but I'm not really sure where they get their info - they probably get it from media reports. For instance, they claim that we can only convey a 2018 first round pick to Philly if we convey the 2016 pick to Chicago. This would naturally be because if we convey the 2017 first round pick to Chicago, the Stepien rule would prevent us from trading the 2018 first rounder. However, it's perfectly plausible that we might not convey either a 2016 or a 2017 first rounder to Chicago, because the 2017 pick is also top-10 protected. In that case it would be Stepien-legal for us to trade our 2018 first to Philly if it fell outside of its protection window. The trade could have been written like that, but we don't really know if it was.
I'm unaware (but would love to be made aware) of any official league site that lists detailed trade transactions where things like this could be definitively cleared up. So we have to go with the best we can figure unless it turns out otherwise.
I don't think there's any conflict with the scenario I proposed above and the Stepien Rule.
Teams have been using conditional trades for years to avoid running afoul of the Stepien Rule. In fact, the very trade in question is already a conditional trade. The real question is what the exact conditions are.
To be specific, the trade is typically reported as "2018 protected if 2016 to Chicago, otherwise 2019". This would mean we would keep 2017 and potentially trade 2018, Stepien Rule is satisfied.
However, the trade could also have been worded "2018 protected if Kings keep 2017 pick, otherwise 2019". This would ALSO mean we would keep 2017 and potentially trade 2018, and should be just as firmly legal under the Stepien Rule as the first formulation.
The difference between the two trade wordings is that the first covers only one scenario under which we keep our 2017 first rounder - that we send the 2016 first to Chicago. The second covers both scenarios under which we keep our 2017 pick - sending the 2016 to Chicago OR keeping the 2017 first round pick because it falls between 1-10 and sending a 2017 second round pick to satisfy the JJ Hickson trade. Both trades are conditional, both are equally legal under the Stepien Rule, but one has what you could call incomplete coverage. And to the best of my knowledge we don't know how the actual trade is literally worded.
Teams have been using conditional trades for years to avoid running afoul of the Stepien Rule. In fact, the very trade in question is already a conditional trade. The real question is what the exact conditions are.
To be specific, the trade is typically reported as "2018 protected if 2016 to Chicago, otherwise 2019". This would mean we would keep 2017 and potentially trade 2018, Stepien Rule is satisfied.
However, the trade could also have been worded "2018 protected if Kings keep 2017 pick, otherwise 2019". This would ALSO mean we would keep 2017 and potentially trade 2018, and should be just as firmly legal under the Stepien Rule as the first formulation.
The difference between the two trade wordings is that the first covers only one scenario under which we keep our 2017 first rounder - that we send the 2016 first to Chicago. The second covers both scenarios under which we keep our 2017 pick - sending the 2016 to Chicago OR keeping the 2017 first round pick because it falls between 1-10 and sending a 2017 second round pick to satisfy the JJ Hickson trade. Both trades are conditional, both are equally legal under the Stepien Rule, but one has what you could call incomplete coverage. And to the best of my knowledge we don't know how the actual trade is literally worded.
Lamar Odom was a better shooter coming out of Rhode Island. LO took 3 threes per game and hit them at a 33% clip (33/100 for the year). Ben Simmons also averaged 33% on threes. But he was 1 for 3 on the season. That's 0.1 attempts per game. And he only averaged about 1.5 jump shots per game. There are some who wonder if he's not even shooting with the correct hand since he finishes almost all his drives with his right but shoots jumpers as a lefty.
Toward the end of the year teams were giving him the Rajon Rondo treatment - sagging off him and daring him to shoot and the vast majority of the time he wouldn't. There's a LOT to like about Simmons (rebounding, passing, ball handling, attacking the basket etc) but I honestly think there are two ways that he can succeed in the NBA.
(1) a team gives him the ball, plays an uptempo style and surrounds him with shooters and/or
(2) he develops a reliable jump shot
That said, there's nothing in Simmon's motion that looks broken and he's a very young kid. There have been a LOT of college players that were terrible shooters and became consistent shooters in the NBA.
I still don't see him as a great fit on a team with DeMarcus Cousins, but since the only likely way the Kings get Simmons is by trading DMC for him, that's kind of a moot point.
Toward the end of the year teams were giving him the Rajon Rondo treatment - sagging off him and daring him to shoot and the vast majority of the time he wouldn't. There's a LOT to like about Simmons (rebounding, passing, ball handling, attacking the basket etc) but I honestly think there are two ways that he can succeed in the NBA.
(1) a team gives him the ball, plays an uptempo style and surrounds him with shooters and/or
(2) he develops a reliable jump shot
That said, there's nothing in Simmon's motion that looks broken and he's a very young kid. There have been a LOT of college players that were terrible shooters and became consistent shooters in the NBA.
I still don't see him as a great fit on a team with DeMarcus Cousins, but since the only likely way the Kings get Simmons is by trading DMC for him, that's kind of a moot point.
we're not really in the lottery. We had a team able to compete last year. It was hamstrung. That is over. And we are DEFINITELY in win now mode with a winning coach, new building, and eager Boogie nearing the end of his deal.
All depends on whether there is a rookie who can come in and with a fairly high degree of assurance contribute this season and next, not 3 years from now.
Obviously if you could actually somehow score an in-prime Top 15 payer for the pick and change, you just flat do that. Boogie and another Top 15 guy and a winning coach = playoffs and maybe more.
All depends on whether there is a rookie who can come in and with a fairly high degree of assurance contribute this season and next, not 3 years from now.
Obviously if you could actually somehow score an in-prime Top 15 payer for the pick and change, you just flat do that. Boogie and another Top 15 guy and a winning coach = playoffs and maybe more.
