2016 NBA Draft Discussion
- Thread starter Dime Dropper
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Shumpert is every bit as injury prone as Eric Gordon is, now that Gordon's knees are not keeping him off the court.
And Shump is an absolutely pathetic offensive player as he can't score playing alongside Lebron.
He would be an excellent player, if different lineups played offense and defense like in football, though.
And Shump is an absolutely pathetic offensive player as he can't score playing alongside Lebron.
He would be an excellent player, if different lineups played offense and defense like in football, though.
The only thing that would hold me back from signing him is how crazy he is and whether that would cause problems with Cousins in the locker room. Then again we had the same reservations about Artest and he was about as well behaved and he had ever been in his career while he was here.
Last year Lance was actually pickier with his shots and shot a good percentage from the field and 3. He was really good for Memphis after the Clips traded him. His ball handling skills would be much needed. Only thing that's concerning is his defensive rating has been bad since he left Indy. You can't always trust that stat so I'm not sure if his defense has fallen off or if the stats just aren't accurate. I know he used to be a very good defender but then again, so was Rondo.
Last year Lance was actually pickier with his shots and shot a good percentage from the field and 3. He was really good for Memphis after the Clips traded him. His ball handling skills would be much needed. Only thing that's concerning is his defensive rating has been bad since he left Indy. You can't always trust that stat so I'm not sure if his defense has fallen off or if the stats just aren't accurate. I know he used to be a very good defender but then again, so was Rondo.
It would greatly depend on coach Joerger. If he is comfortable with it, I am all for it. Lance seems to have played well for him for the second half of the season in Memphis but I am not sure if his behavior had anything to do with the coach or the strong veteran leadership from all those veterans in the Memphis locker room.
I'm assuming we're talking about Tyreke here right? Could he be a better player than he ultimately became MAYBE would be the answer here. The wrap up about him will always be his jumper until he proves otherwise and those injuries are adding up. So besides him what other "promising" careers have been destroyed by us? Hawes? JT? Jimmer? T. Robinson? Stauskas? . So out of those guys who was "destroyed" by us? Seems to me its more of a case of drafting the wrong player.
At the end of the day, while I'm not a fan of the pick, I understand it. After Murray was picked, there was nobody left that could come in and immediately help us. While I liked Baldwin, I wasn't high on him, especially compared to most on this site, and never saw him being anything more than Raymond Felton. I was hoping we'd trade the pick for an impact guy, but I'm sure Vlade tried and no one bit.
From what I've heard Big Papa was told he was going to be a top 20 pick regardless. This put Vlade in a rough spot most likely. Bring in a guy who probably didn't work out for us and didn't want to play here, draft a guy who fills a position of need, but won't make much of an impact long term, or draft a guy who grew up a Kings fan, has solid potential for his size, and is good contingency plan if Cousins leaves. From what I've seen George looks like a younger Marc Gasol and has a lot of unique characteristics for being over 7 feet.
I still think he was a reach, but I also think he was underrated as a prospect and should have been considered a late first round prospect.
From what I've heard Big Papa was told he was going to be a top 20 pick regardless. This put Vlade in a rough spot most likely. Bring in a guy who probably didn't work out for us and didn't want to play here, draft a guy who fills a position of need, but won't make much of an impact long term, or draft a guy who grew up a Kings fan, has solid potential for his size, and is good contingency plan if Cousins leaves. From what I've seen George looks like a younger Marc Gasol and has a lot of unique characteristics for being over 7 feet.
I still think he was a reach, but I also think he was underrated as a prospect and should have been considered a late first round prospect.
Destroyed may be strong. Let's try significantly negatively impacted. But in the last 10 years I'll go with Tyreke, Ben Mclemore, yes even TRob, Donte Green. Casspi saved himself by leaving. Thornton's career stalled and never recovered. Those are the young players that I think would have been much better off never coming through this organization. It doesn't even touch on the vets who came through and fell off the face of the earth. As good as Cousins is, we've had a serious impact on his legacy. His saving grace has been that he's been able to play for team USA and gain some valuable knowledge through that route.
T Rob's been here for a few months. I don't think you can ruin a young kid's career in such a short time, even if you're the most dysfunctional franchise in the world.
Donte Greene was just a bad basketball player. Nice guy and all, but he just didn't have it.
Casspi played his best season last year, with us, after he barely played for Cleveland and Houston. So I don't know how he saved himself by leaving.
Thornton had his best seasons for us, and since he left he disappeared.
So, while I agree this team has not been really good in developing talent, I also think the main problem is that we didn't get enough talent to develop.
Donte Greene was just a bad basketball player. Nice guy and all, but he just didn't have it.
Casspi played his best season last year, with us, after he barely played for Cleveland and Houston. So I don't know how he saved himself by leaving.
Thornton had his best seasons for us, and since he left he disappeared.
So, while I agree this team has not been really good in developing talent, I also think the main problem is that we didn't get enough talent to develop.
I think folks should be fair with Vlade here. The man has not made a bad pick yet coz he netted us WCS last year.
I've been a frustrated fan for years as well and got quite a shock with the Papa pick, I have not seen any tape of this kid at all.
But after a round of videos, this kid passes my eye test for high potential big.
He is more agile than Hibbert or Marc Gasol when they were drafted.
He does not have to lose as much body fat when Hibbert or Gasol were drafted.
And he is way more coordinated than Hibbert's offense, when he was drafted.
The point here is that there are already 2 players here above 7 foot that cashed in nicely while slipping down the draft.
GM's won't make that mistake on year to year basis.
Our path to the playoff this year is Joerger's adjustment and a bunch of solid FA signings.
No draft pick at 13 will bring us there. So if no one can take us there, I think it is a good move to bring in high potential big in a league where big men are slowly creeping back in.
I've been a frustrated fan for years as well and got quite a shock with the Papa pick, I have not seen any tape of this kid at all.
But after a round of videos, this kid passes my eye test for high potential big.
He is more agile than Hibbert or Marc Gasol when they were drafted.
He does not have to lose as much body fat when Hibbert or Gasol were drafted.
And he is way more coordinated than Hibbert's offense, when he was drafted.
The point here is that there are already 2 players here above 7 foot that cashed in nicely while slipping down the draft.
GM's won't make that mistake on year to year basis.
Our path to the playoff this year is Joerger's adjustment and a bunch of solid FA signings.
No draft pick at 13 will bring us there. So if no one can take us there, I think it is a good move to bring in high potential big in a league where big men are slowly creeping back in.
Sure we can trade him. You just have to sign a PF in FA. Let's play it out...
SF - Gay (34 min) / Casspi (14 min)
PF - Cauley-Stein (16 min) / Casspi (12 min) / Arthur (20 min) / Skal
C - Cousins (36 min) / Cauley-Stein (12 min) / Papagiannis
In fact, it's preferred if we trade Koufos as it balances out our frontcourt and eases up logjams across the board. I don't expect us to build a roster that relies on either rookie to get time. If they play their way into minutes, great! But I'm sure Vlade is not going to settle on a frontcourt that demands 15-20 minutes a game from Skal/Georgios from day 1.
SF - Gay (34 min) / Casspi (14 min)
PF - Cauley-Stein (16 min) / Casspi (12 min) / Arthur (20 min) / Skal
C - Cousins (36 min) / Cauley-Stein (12 min) / Papagiannis
In fact, it's preferred if we trade Koufos as it balances out our frontcourt and eases up logjams across the board. I don't expect us to build a roster that relies on either rookie to get time. If they play their way into minutes, great! But I'm sure Vlade is not going to settle on a frontcourt that demands 15-20 minutes a game from Skal/Georgios from day 1.
Solomon Hill has the chance to be the steal of this FA period.
His defense & athleticism are stellar and he's a very good rebounder for his position (not to mention he'll be 25 at the start of next season). His shooting has been inconsistent up until now, but once he started getting increased minutes at the end of the year (above 25 minutes a game), he was shooting much more consistently. His last 14 games of the season (including the playoffs) he shot 52% from three on 3.3 attempts per game. Granted it's a small sample size, but you want to see players improving towards the end of the year (not falling off). Also, considering he went from 10-15 mpg to 29 mpg for that last stretch, it bodes well for him.
And it's not like this shooting is coming out of nowhere. He shot 86% from the free throw line and is 83% for his career. That's usually an indicator that he has a good stroke and in time he can develop a reliable jumpshot. He also shot 39% from the college 3 his last two years at Arizona, so again, I don't think his 3pt shooting is as much as an anomaly as some people may think. In this day and age, players understand how valuable it is to have a 3pt shot, and I'm sure Hill has been working very hard at getting it down.
Hill is a bit under the radar compared to players like Bazemore, Crabbe, Fournier, & Lee considering there is that risk with him regressing on his shot, but being Sacramento and being a small market team, we need to take some chances. Again, Hill could be the steal of this FA and turn into one of the best 3&D wings and be on a Crowder like contract that is uber valuable. Having a starting caliber SG/SF that is a ferocious defender, good 3pt shooter, 25 years old, and on an 8-10mil a year deal under the new CBA is ridiculous value.
I really hope the Kings make him their #1 priority this offseason. He's well worth the investment.
EDIT: Just realized I posted this in the wrong thread. Feel free to delete, mods.
His defense & athleticism are stellar and he's a very good rebounder for his position (not to mention he'll be 25 at the start of next season). His shooting has been inconsistent up until now, but once he started getting increased minutes at the end of the year (above 25 minutes a game), he was shooting much more consistently. His last 14 games of the season (including the playoffs) he shot 52% from three on 3.3 attempts per game. Granted it's a small sample size, but you want to see players improving towards the end of the year (not falling off). Also, considering he went from 10-15 mpg to 29 mpg for that last stretch, it bodes well for him.
And it's not like this shooting is coming out of nowhere. He shot 86% from the free throw line and is 83% for his career. That's usually an indicator that he has a good stroke and in time he can develop a reliable jumpshot. He also shot 39% from the college 3 his last two years at Arizona, so again, I don't think his 3pt shooting is as much as an anomaly as some people may think. In this day and age, players understand how valuable it is to have a 3pt shot, and I'm sure Hill has been working very hard at getting it down.
Hill is a bit under the radar compared to players like Bazemore, Crabbe, Fournier, & Lee considering there is that risk with him regressing on his shot, but being Sacramento and being a small market team, we need to take some chances. Again, Hill could be the steal of this FA and turn into one of the best 3&D wings and be on a Crowder like contract that is uber valuable. Having a starting caliber SG/SF that is a ferocious defender, good 3pt shooter, 25 years old, and on an 8-10mil a year deal under the new CBA is ridiculous value.
I really hope the Kings make him their #1 priority this offseason. He's well worth the investment.
EDIT: Just realized I posted this in the wrong thread. Feel free to delete, mods.
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jack @jackhaveitall 2h2 hours ago
hgnhhhh wade baldwin iv!
NO idea how to embed the video. Click on the link if you want to see Wade Baldwin yack on someone in traffic.
K
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jack @jackhaveitall 2h2 hours ago
hgnhhhh wade baldwin iv!
NO idea how to embed the video. Click on the link if you want to see Wade Baldwin yack on someone in traffic.
Chriss has been having a really good preseson so far, he will be forever linked to Big Papa, Skal and Bogdanovic. Last night Chriss started at Center for the Suns and put up a line of 17 points, 6 boards, 1 assist, 2 steals, 4 blocks, and 3 three pointers. Chriss has had a very good preseaon, time will tell who won this trade. I really hope Chriss isn't the hometown guy that got away.
He will probably always be linked with Big Papa and the other two just linked in defense of the trade. But to be fair, you would have to take the total of the three against the one to see who won the trade. It wouldn't surprise me if it is in reality a win-win, regardless of what happens with the "big" dude.
Depending on what happens this season, there could be a chance to redeem ourselves by taking a PG in the lottery (or strike out by inexplicably missing on starting PGs three times in four years). Elfrid Payton and Emmanuel Mudiay looked like solid prospects to me and they've had some success so far, but they have some very significant weaknesses too. Contrast that with this year's crop of PGs which is the best we've seen in awhile. De'Aaron Fox (Kentucky) is my favorite of the bunch and both nbadraft.net and draftexpress.com currently have him as the 4th PG off the board! The waiting game could ultimately work out in our favor. Looking at our roster right now, I'd be surprised if we didn't keep our pick but who knows. Joerger maximized some fringe NBA talent last season but that was in the context of an existing system with a steady experienced PG at the helm. We'll see.
Also, considering Vlade traded his #8 pick for him, I would assume that he envisions Bogdanovic is the starting SG next season. He's not a typical rookie -- he'll be 25 years old and being paid a Free Agent's contract as opposed to late first round rookie scale. With Temple signed for three years already and an option year on Afflalo that means a Ben McLemore trade is all but inevitable and it also means there's a very good chance that we have an entirely new starting back court (and SF) next season. I'd love to see Vlade leverage whatever value is left in Gay and McLemore to try to find us a young defensive wing player we can develop. It's also driving me crazy that Philly is just dangling an elite defensive big man in the wind. If we can somehow swing a trade for Nerlens Noel, I bet we could get a lot from some team for Cauley-Stein (who would become redundant in that scenario). So as unhappy as I am with the way we seem to be moving backward in talent at a remarkable rate, a few quick moves could still send us back in the right direction.
Also, considering Vlade traded his #8 pick for him, I would assume that he envisions Bogdanovic is the starting SG next season. He's not a typical rookie -- he'll be 25 years old and being paid a Free Agent's contract as opposed to late first round rookie scale. With Temple signed for three years already and an option year on Afflalo that means a Ben McLemore trade is all but inevitable and it also means there's a very good chance that we have an entirely new starting back court (and SF) next season. I'd love to see Vlade leverage whatever value is left in Gay and McLemore to try to find us a young defensive wing player we can develop. It's also driving me crazy that Philly is just dangling an elite defensive big man in the wind. If we can somehow swing a trade for Nerlens Noel, I bet we could get a lot from some team for Cauley-Stein (who would become redundant in that scenario). So as unhappy as I am with the way we seem to be moving backward in talent at a remarkable rate, a few quick moves could still send us back in the right direction.
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My gut tells me that we'll lose our pick this year, so my hope is that we make a trade to acquire a first round pick. Your right about this next draft class being a good one for PG's. My favorite right now is Markelle Fultz from Washington, but I like De'Aaron Fox as well. Frank Jackson of Duke is another one to keep and eye on. A few others that I like are Dennis Smith of North Carolina, Monte Morris of Iowa St. and Lonzo Ball of UCLA. A dark horse in the group could be Kobi Simmons from Arizona.
Really too early to make any predictions about any of them. But I expect both Fultz and Fox to be top ten picks in next years draft. But you never know.
Really too early to make any predictions about any of them. But I expect both Fultz and Fox to be top ten picks in next years draft. But you never know.
Definitely too early to tell, but we can be reasonably sure that the first round of the 2017 draft will be littered with quality PG prospects and we'll have no PGs left under contract after this season. At that point you'd really have to be trying to miss on all of them (or lose your pick because of a trade that happened 6 years earlier...) It seems a bit premature to be rooting for losses already 
so I'll just say that another losing season wouldn't be the worst thing the world right now. You can do everything wrong for 10 years and it'll be forgotten once you start winning. If we get an All-Star PG in the door, however we do it, nobody is going to even remember how many guys we passed on (well, unless they happen to win an MVP award playing 90 miles away -- that kind of thing is hard to ignore).
so I'll just say that another losing season wouldn't be the worst thing the world right now. You can do everything wrong for 10 years and it'll be forgotten once you start winning. If we get an All-Star PG in the door, however we do it, nobody is going to even remember how many guys we passed on (well, unless they happen to win an MVP award playing 90 miles away -- that kind of thing is hard to ignore).
Definitely too early to tell, but we can be reasonably sure that the first round of the 2017 draft will be littered with quality PG prospects and we'll have no PGs left under contract after this season. At that point you'd really have to be trying to miss on all of them (or lose your pick because of a trade that happened 6 years earlier...) It seems a bit premature to be rooting for losses already so I'll just say that another losing season wouldn't be the worst thing the world right now. You can do everything wrong for 10 years and it'll be forgotten once you start winning. If we get an All-Star PG in the door, however we do it, nobody is going to even remember how many guys we passed on (well, unless they happen to win an MVP award playing 90 miles away -- that kind of thing is hard to ignore).
so I'll just say that another losing season wouldn't be the worst thing the world right now. You can do everything wrong for 10 years and it'll be forgotten once you start winning. If we get an All-Star PG in the door, however we do it, nobody is going to even remember how many guys we passed on (well, unless they happen to win an MVP award playing 90 miles away -- that kind of thing is hard to ignore).
On the other hand, if the wheels fall off we are going to lose Cuz, and then its a crapstorm. We'll need kids at every position, including PG. I'd prefer not to root for such a disaster. It would mean 2020 would be a new realistic target date for no longer failing.
Honestly, I already see this off-season as a complete disaster so I'm not rooting for anything except a future that tangentially involves winning. And that's really hard to do without a PG -- speaking of which, have you seen what the going rate is for a quality starting PG in Free Agency these days? We have nobody to trade for a star player other than Cousins, which is self-defeating. Our odds of signing a top 20 free agent in any off-season are slim and none. So I'm looking at this draft and thinking... beg, borrow, or steal I don't much care but if we miss out on 4 or 5 of the best up-and-coming PGs in the league because of some stupid technicality, you can forget about hanging a banner in the Golden 1 Center any time soon. Whether Cousins is here or not at that point doesn't matter much to me anymore. If he leaves the front office will have nobody to blame but themselves.