People always seem to concentrate on offense when suggesting personnel decisions. Calderon will probably improve offense, but on the other end he certainly doesn't change anything. Tyreke and Boogie have more than enough skills to get away with as far as playmaking and creativity go. Sure you have to sneak in another offensive talent in the starting five but he doesn't need to have great floor game but rather off the ball focus(Mclemore in theory fits the mold, especially as despite lacking in handles, he's still a very good passer). And with trade-off on offense you can afford to parse in 3 defenders, two of which should be (no, must be) just finishers.
2013 unrestricted freeagents:
- Thread starter bajaden
- Start date
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I agree that there are a lot of ways you can approach fixing whats broke. One way is to bring in an experienced and proven PG to provide leadership on the floor. Calderon is someone that can do that. I also agree that moving Tyreke back to PG, and drafting McLemore, a very talented player that can kill the other team offensively, but can also be a dominating defensive player is another approach. I can see the benefits of both ways, but honestly can't tell you which way is the best way. I suspect that short term, the Calderon approach is the best, but long term the McLemore, or plug in Oladipo, approach might be the best.
But, if you leave Tyreke at SG, then defensively having IT as the starting PG makes you very vunerable. Not for lack of effort on his part, but because a smart team with a Derron Williams or any smart 6'2" or over PG is going to post him up and break down the defense when the help comes. And I'm talking about the playoffs now. Run and gun never works in the playoffs when teams become serious about winning.
Well, if you're worried about PG defense, Calderon is not going to be much of an upgrade to IT. I do think he would make a great piece, especially for Cousins. I do think PG defense is probably the least important of the 5 positions. An elite PG defender does not have near the impact that a Tyson Chandler or Serge Ibaka does. Or having defensive rotations like Indy and Memphis where they shut down penetration. This is not to excuse IT's defencies, but it is possible to be a highly successful playoff team with a weak defensive PG.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Yeah, I don't think Steve Nash will ever make all defensive 1st or 2nd team. There is no perfect player, and sometimes you have to give up something to get something. You can have a PG thats terrific defensively but weak offensively. Or, a PG that a terrfic assist guy who shoots the ball well, but is weak defensively. Or the worse possible one, the PG thats not a very good assist creater, weak defensively, but shoots the ball well. The last one is sort of where we are. And to be fair to IT, its not always lack of effort on his part. He's stuck with his current height, and thats not his fault. I was critical of him last week for how he defended the pick and roll, but he seems to have corrected it. So I have to give credit where its due.
KevinSalvadori
Bench
I love this idea. I mean, love. I think it's a snowball's chance Smith comes here, but hey, let's experiment another way. What if we sign Tony Allen (3 years, 16m), re-sign 'Reke (5 years, 48.5m), and draft either Otto Porter, Adekotumbo, or Shabazz Mohammad? Basically the same with a new face at the 3. Another idea: Minny will be short on a defensive big. What about Hayes and a future 2nd rounder for Shved and Stiemsma? Contracts match and while it seems like we're ripping them off, remember how valuable defensive depth is on Adelman's teams. He has AK47 as a starter, but the bench could use it.
Imagine doing the above deal as a contingency if we can't score Allen. Then I'd try to pry Horford away from ATL (fat chance, I know) while the Hawks dream up a Dwight/Josh pairing. If they keep that dream, they'll need some major depth. I propose MT, JT and IT for Horford and Mike Scott. ATL takes on salary but gets great pieces, and if you think of the bench they'd line up, it's pretty impressive. We'd become: Cousins/Horford/Porter/Shved/Evans.
To me, Shved is baby Beno (with a worse 3 but better speed), and perhaps a perfect fit with 'Reke.
You have 3 guys playing out of position and 0 perimeter shooting. The defensive potential of Allen-Reke is tantilizing, but you would need an absolute lights-out 3pt shooting SF to compliment them (Kyle Korver esq). While Reke has been lights-out as a spot-up shooter this year (I mean, like top 10 in the NBA good. Crazy!), he's not a guy you want to depend on for floor spacing. Especially if he's playing PG and handling the ball more than he is now.
A better player to pursue than Dally is Tiago Splitter. A much more skilled-offensive big, knows his role offensively, and he's been one of the top defensive anchors in the NBA this year. Best part, we'd be able to get him through his prime as he's only 28 now.
C: DeMarcus Cousins
PF: Tiago Splitter
SF: Kyle Korver/Mike Dunleavy (although this would be a bit weird)
SG: Tony Allen
PG: Tyreke Evans
Bench
Thornton
IT
Ppat
I could live with that 8-man rotation. Although it would require a Salmons amnesty to make happen
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KevinSalvadori
Bench
Let me play with both these ideas a sec. In an alternate universe where we trade DMC, one destination I could imagine is MINN. My package would be Salmons, DMC, and IT for Shved, Kirilenko, and their second 2013 second rounder. I would then do the Splitter signing but perhaps pass on the Allen deal considering we have Shved. My lineup thus would become some semblance of: Splitter/Thompson/Kirilenko/Shved/Evans. Bench of Thornton/Hayes/PPat/Jimmer/DRAFT/DRAFT/Outlaw and a potentially re-signed Aldrich. I think that lineup can both spread the floor and play insane D. The one thing you might sacrifice is a little passing, but we gain a true playmaking PG again.
KevinSalvadori
Bench
Let me play with both these ideas a sec. In an alternate universe where we trade DMC, one destination I could imagine is MINN. My package would be Salmons, DMC, and IT for Shved, Kirilenko, and their second 2013 second rounder. I would then do the Splitter signing but perhaps pass on the Allen deal considering we have Shved. My lineup thus would become some semblance of: Splitter/Thompson/Kirilenko/Shved/Evans. Bench of Hayes/PPat/Jimmer/DRAFT/DRAFT/Outlaw and a potentially re-signed Aldrich. I think that lineup can both spread the floor and play insane D. The one thing you might sacrifice is a little passing, but we gain a true playmaking PG again.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Are you trying to set this franchise back 10 years? That's the most lopsided trade proposal I think I've ever seen on this board!
Thanks, DD. I didn't really want to have to type that.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Your joking? Right! Please tell me your joking.....
KevinSalvadori
Bench
Okay. So maybe I went a little overboard on offering IT in that deal. Maybe. But I DO think we get a little carried away on DMC's valuation at this stage. There are two schools of thought: wait it out, build the team around him even, then maximize the return on a deal once he gets closer to his potential or keep him on a new contract. We'll call this option one. Option two is cutting ties now before his behavior and overzealous self-loathing infect the team to a catastrophic level, bringing his stock (if possible) even lower. I personally do not know which option is better. My gut tells me option one, because I think the kid is at 75% or so of his talent level at present.
But his attitude, demeanor, and prospects for re-signing here suck. The guy goes half speed most games and genuinely seems to make transition sets more belabored at times. I will never argue his talent or potential- he's arguably the most talented front court player this franchise has seen. But if his mere presence makes the others on the floor with him worse off or less capable, it's worth nothing in my book. Call it Iverson Syndrome.
I hope we keep DMC and he figures it out here. I also hope we keep 'Reke. But I think people are turning a DMC deal into something akin to trading Hakeem at his prime and that's not accurate. Other teams see him for the potential talent and the potential headache, and we could do much worse than a package netting us a young, solid playmaking guard with upside (Shved), a starting SF with a big expiring (AK), and a top 20 pick this year or another somewhere down the line. I'd still prefer a deal that gets us Pekovic somehow, but not bloody likely. Time will tell, but I find that homer syndrome often abounds on potential DMC deals.
Just one man's opinion.
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You just don't sell impact players for role players. Until there's a gun at your head...and then you can get some flexible pieces, which 24-year old rookie guard with 10p(.480TS%)+4a, 32-year old SF with expiring contract, who hasn't exactly expressed desire to be in Sacramento, and "their second 2013 second rounder" are. Sorry, but master in acquiring flexible pieces is out the door this summer.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Absurd. Just one man's opinion.
KevinSalvadori
Bench
We'll see. I think we'll keep him and he learns to thrive under a new coach until he sees dollar signs and leaves. I do hope he stays. I like him. He reminds me of the sort of flair players we had here between 1998 and 2006, players I loved and admired. Ideally, you find a way to add players like Shved and AK next to DMC. That's my preference. I'm just trying to form a Devil's Advocate argument of the perceptions that may be out there.
Sorry to add a tangent away from FA conversations!!!
Now back to that- anyone think we could score Korver and Allen? That would be a major enhancement to our starting 5 and combine great D and outside scoring. Our starting 5 would thus become:
C: Cousins/Hayes
PF: Thompson/Patterson
SF: Korver/Salmons Outlaw
PG: Evans/Thomas/Fredette
SG: Allen/Thornton
Vastly improved, IMO. I'd draft a C or SF with our 1st rounder and call it good. Log jam still at PG, but there are worse problems. Thoughts?
First off, above you said a second-round pick, not a first-round pick as you imply here. I don't think that changes the outcome, but it makes it less bad.
When you mention Kirilenko, you talk about his expiring contract (in summer of 2014) as if the contract itself were an asset. But an expiring contract as an expiring contract is only valuable if you 1) send away more future money (which we don't - Salmons is expiring too) or 2) plan to trade it to someone who is going to dump a salary you want. At that point, you may as well trade Cousins for the guy you want in the first place. So either way, the contract looks like a red herring.
That means you're trading Cousins (hotheaded but one of the best centers in the league, who could be locked up on a long-term deal) and IT (a young, exciting PG on a dirt-cheap contract) for a pick (now said to be late first round), one year of Kirilenko, and Shved (a potentially nice guard who could be had for a lot less than Cousins).
Could you do worse than that, as you say? Sure, you could find a worse deal, but it wouldn't be smart to take that worse deal - or the proposed one. My opinion is that we shouldn't trade Cousins just because he's a hothead, though we do need to address his problems. But if we insist on dealing him, it cannot be a fire sale. We need to make out like a bandit because the other team will be.
Darth Divac
Bench
I wish we still had Crash. He was always my favorite. But noooo, we had to let him go in the expansion draft, and now he's on Kris Humphries's entorage.
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KevinSalvadori
Bench
Fair enough, and solid points. I especially agree with the tact of it not being a fire sale, especially if we want any chance of attracting FAs here. Like I said (and this seems to be getting ignored) I like DMC and want to keep him. I think our best tactic is to get complementary parts FOR him. If we could do the deal I mentioned earlier for Shved, something like Hayes and a later pick for he and Stiemsma, then signed Korver and re-signed 'Reke, I think we'd be off and running. I'd then add a C or SF via the draft and a cheap FA, or re-sign Aldrich, who has impressed me, to a cheap 1-year deal around his current salary. That starting 5 is very similar to the above, just: DMC/JT/Korver/Shved/Evans.
More attainable?
Glenn
Hall of Famer
We cannot score any free agent of note. When they are approached by the Kings, they call the Kings players to get an insight about what it's like to play for the Kings and move on to the next team. Our last notable free agent signing was Vlade. The team has disintegrated since then and although people seem to love to chatter and dream about FAs, they aren't coming here unless they are at the end of their career.
ParniValjak
All-Star
You are of course correct but we have hope and that is the new ownership. I am hopeful that Mastrov/Burkle get to buy the Kings and their reputations carry some weight...especially Burkle who has proven himself as a great owner in the NHL.
Once you get the great front office in, a good coach, some stability and a new arena, it will not be far fetched to get good free agents to Sacramento. I am not talking LeBron or Wade or Kobe types but I am more talking about the likes of Kirilenko, Josh Smith, Pekovic etc....so I am talking border line all-stars - good solid dependable players.
When Kings were the biggest show in the NBA, we had good solid FAs wanting to come to us. We signed Brad Miller, Jimmy Jackson, Keon Clark etc... those type of players are what we need to add via FA and get the stars via the draft or trade.
I think with DMC and Reke we have our foundation. Hopefully this year's pick is also someone that we can bank on long term and all we need free agency for is to fill the gaps around those guys. That is how San Antonio have built their empire over the last decade or so. That is how we used the free agency back in the C-Webb days.
We will still have to pay a top dollar for those guys and in some cases like with Vlade and Brad Miller, we would have to overpay for them to consider coming to Sacramento but it still opens the door for it and that level of FA can be swayed by more money and a winning team.
As of right now, I don't think even max contracts would attract anyone here but with the new ownership there is a hope that it will change. The wheel will turn.
KevinSalvadori
Bench
Slazem se, veliki put. I think momentum goes a long way, and young players that experienced vets want to be on the court with. Like the reasons that AK chose Minny, frankly. Playing next to Rubio, Love, and under Adelman, that's a nice team. If we can get an exciting or at least established coach (people here know I love the idea of Stan VanGundy or Ettore Messina), I think it can go a long way towards that end.
I agree with your categories, Carolija. If we offered either Pekovic or Smith 14-18m/yr, it's a bit over their potential valuation but exactly what it might take to get them HERE. A guy like Dorell Wright or Korver could be had for a fraction of that, but you don't get as many skills. I think if we signed a FA SF this year (there are some nice ones), acquired a starting PG, and drafted well for depth, we'd be on our way.
Assuming we stay in Sac, I think we become a damn solid place for the mid-tier FA for the same reason we become an attracive place for the mid-tier coach (Excluding the elite guys like Jackson, Sloan)
New ownership with money to spend
New Arena
Talented young core
Another top5ish pick
New ownership with money to spend
New Arena
Talented young core
Another top5ish pick
Definitely less painful, as we're not giving up on anything that could turn around and bite us. I assume you're talking about a second-round pick in the Shved deal. I don't really know enough about Shved to know how he would fit with Tyreke in the backcourt. Also, I wouldn't want to pay a lot for Korver - I'd like to find a SF that can help us out defensively, but at least Korver can space the floor. With a proper coach, I think Korver/Tyreke could be a good combo, but with a bad coach it could be pretty scary.
Kings have three major needs: finisher/role players offensively, defenders and rebounders, preferably in the same body. Guys, who do only one thing, or guys, who are exact opposites on one of the points, doesn't bring much to the table. Age is somewhat of a consideration too. So not interested in Shved (more of a playmaker with pathetic .478TS%), Korver(32 years, bad defender and rebounder) and Stiesma(2.3fpg in 13.7mpg and bad rebounding). Some interest in Kirilenko (age is a concern).
ParniValjak
All-Star
This team need precisely age and of a productive type. For example Kirilenko is 30 but productive so I would definitely take him for 3-4 years.
Similarly with Dalembert, he is 32 but his numbers are consistent so I would take him for a couple of seasons and draft his replacement if available.
One of our problems is a real lack of productive veterans to steady the ship! Garcia (now gone) and Hayes don't really count as they barely play regular minutes. Johns Salmons is the only real veteran on the team that plays consistent minutes.
Problem is everybody wants such players. While I emphasized the 3 key traits incoming players should have, age is a minor concern. If there's such a player available without burning assets to get him, Kings should go for it. If Dalembert is willing to come here, there's still a place for him. Also note that after But would Wolves trade Kirilenko for expirings? Absolutely not. The only type of players Kings have in abundance are shoot/score first, no defense types plus outright garbage players. Boogie, Evans or JT - those guys Kings can use for themselves.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Are you aware that after Nowitzki's first two years in Dallas, a large majority of fans wanted him traded. For different reasons of course, but none the less, that was popular setiment in Dallas. How do you think that would have worked out for them? I'll say it again! Cousins hasn't gone up into the stands and punched fans like Mr. World Peace did along with Stephen Jackson. He just happens to be a very emotional young man, that has not only the local, but national spotlight on him and everything he does. I won't even comment on what I think of your trade proposal, other than to say, thank god your not our GM. Contrary to what you might think, just about every team in the NBA would love to have Cousins, and would be willing to pay a high price for him. Last time I checked, World Meta Peace was still getting large contracts despite trying to beat a fan to death. So get out of your little bubble and see the NBA world for what it really is.
As for being a Homer because I happen to support Cousins as a person, well, your dammed right I'am. I'm a fan!!!!!!!!! Not a freaking announcer thats susposed to be impartial (most aren't). What you call being a homer, I call being loyal as a fan. If you don't like Cousins. Thats fine! But don't let your bias affect your ability to see the whole picture. Tunnel vision always leads to mistakes.
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bajaden
Hall of Famer
I don't disagree with you, but its dammed hard to find everything your looking for in one body, unless of course your talking about Lebron, Kobe etc. I mean thats the reason those guys are considered superstars. I disagree a little on Korver being a bad defender. He's not a great defender, but he knows how to play team defense, and seldom makes mistakes on rotations. He is a Jerry Sloan pupil, and those guys are always good team defenders. So in my opinon, he doesn't hurt you defensively, but certainly helps you offensively without being a selfish player. If he could be had for a decent price, I'd certainly take him on my team. I'm not interested in Shved or Stiesma.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I'm probably in the minority, but I don't want Dalembert back here. The Bucks can't wait to get rid of him. He's a bit of a malcontent who has always envisioned himself as a better offensive player than he is. I'd rather go after Chris Kaman, who is younger by one year, and who doesn't fashion himself as a starter anymore. He'd be a very solid backup to Cousins, and a very good emergency starter if needed. He's also a good defender who always averaged at least 1.5 to 2 blocks per game when he played over 30 minutes a game.
I agree though that we need good veteran players on our team. Players that will take Cuz or Tyreke aside during a break and ask them just what the hell they were thinkinig when they made a bonehead play. They don't have to be stars, but they have to be respected.
