2012 Olympics discussion thread

Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
#31
#31
spudfan said:
Of course you could have beaten them. They were trying to lose.
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Uhh, yes. That was my point, right?

I guess you also feel NBA teams should be kicked out of the playoffs when they start losing a game here or there before post season starts so they have better match ups. Throwing games to get a better matchup has been happening for a very long time. Do you think the Spurs, Lakers and Heat should all have been disqualified from the NBA playoffs last year? They benched players going into the playoffs since they had the spot they wanted secured.
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I'm not a huge fan of "tanking" in the NBA or elsewhere, but I'll say this: I've never seen an NBA team play poorly enough that they'd lose to a team of five Capt. Factorials out there.

In no way should they be penalized for playing smart.
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They were deliberately serving into the net and letting softly-hit shuttles that were clearly in simply fall. That goes beyond not playing your best players. It's embarrassing and it doesn't belong in a world-class sporting event. Good riddance to them.
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#32
#32
Capt. Factorial said:
I'm not a huge fan of "tanking" in the NBA or elsewhere, but I'll say this: I've never seen an NBA team play poorly enough that they'd lose to a team of five Capt. Factorials out there.
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Well, duh. There's only one ball. Your team has too many stars and not enough role players. ;)
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#33
#33
Warhawk said:
Well, duh. There's only one ball. Your team has too many stars and not enough role players. ;)
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ROFLMAO!

Personally, I think what those badminton players did was way beyond the pall. They weren't just playing a little less than their best, they were playing so poorly the were blatantly and obviously trying to lose. Beyond the fact that it certainly falls far short of the Olympic ideal, how would you like to be a fan paying a lot of money for tickets and have to watch something that wasn't even as good as the family backyard badminton battles? People wanted their money back, but that's not going to happen. Pretty disgusting and embarrassing.

I would argue they should have had a better format, but if I were lucky enough to be an Olympian, I could never do that. I have far too much pride and belief in fair play to stoop to such an embarrassing act. I would be ashamed of myself and and worse, I would feel that I shamed the people of my country that I was there to represent.

Volleyball and basketball both use a pool play format, before going to elimination rounds. They have never had this problem in the Olympics. I believe a number of other sports do as well. So the Chinese may be the number 1 and 2 most skilled teams in badminton, but they flunk being worthy champions in my book.
 
S

spudfan

Starter
#34
#34
Kennadog, I am sure you are mistaken about your comments on the number 2 ranked (Chinese) team as they had no part in this. I have seen too many "China is horrible country" posts during these games and it is a bit embarrassing. Pretty lucky for the 4 South Korean and 2 Indonesian players that the focus is on hating China.

When you say this hasn't been a problem in the Olympics before you are a bit misinformed as it has happened. In fact it took place in another instance during these games. Japan's soccer coach publicly admitted to playing for a draw in order to avoid facing the USA or France in their next matchup.
 
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S

spudfan

Starter
#35
#35
The badminton federation code of ethics gives them every right to dq the players, btw. Many different sources have said losing to get a more favorable matchup happens often during international tournaments. Hopefully they make changes to their rules and tournament settings so this doesn't happen anymore. As a fan of sport in general, I would be so disappointed if I was primarily a badminton fan. To have the number one ranked team in the world disqualified because of a poor game setup would be a big letdown.

The rule they violated is a badminton specific one from their code of ethics which is some along the lines of "players must alway give their best effort." What a terrible rule. Can you imagine if that was a rule in other sports? Enforcing it would be a disaster.
 
uolj

uolj

Starter
#36
#36
Yeah, I think the biggest problem is the setup of the tournament, not the players. You should never be put into a position where losing so clearly is in your best interests.

I mean, many of us are in favor of tanking for lottery and draft position, but most of those in favor still want the players on the court to play as hard as possible. It's not like the badminton doubles team can just sub in Mateen Cleaves and Jabari Smith and hope they play to their "abilities".
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#37
#37
"Violating the spirit of the games" is a catch all phrase to punish people if there is no specific rule to cover the issue. I don't know all sports, of course, but NASCAR (is it a sport?) has a phrase just like it. It is a common punishment. I think it's a necessary power of the governing body as most governing bodies are half a step between good sports and people trying to weasel around the rules. Must admit I've never heard of what happened in badminton but it must be common, huh?

I agree with uolj that the setup of the tournament is at fault if I can be so harsh. I don't know what to do about it unless it is something odd like lettting the top pool players get their choice of who they want to play with the top team getting first choice, etc. I suspect badminton will be a much more sportsmanlike game from here on in.

Indonesia and South Korea are appealing but China accepted the decision. Props to China. The top Chinese player retired today. How would you like to have paid for the tickets? At least you saw history but on the other hand I watched the #2 Chinese team play Russia today and it was spectacular. Not like the backyard games of my youth. :)

As to the NBA, I like that being the absolute worst guarantees nothing. It just gives you a 25% chance at having first choice.
 
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Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#38
#38
Great day for US Olympics overall... completely closed the gap with China in gold medals (tied as of writing this), and the US has the most medals overall
 
uolj

uolj

Starter
#39
#39
Glenn said:
I don't know what to do about it unless it is something odd like lettting the top pool players get their choice of who they want to play with the top team getting first choice, etc.
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I think this is probably the best/simplest solution. That and some other good ideas were given here:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gametheory/2012/08/match-throwing-badminton
...

A simple solution would be to scrap the two-stage structure in favour of a double-elimination tournament, which preserves the incentive to win at every point while still allowing teams to remain in the field after suffering a loss. If the BWF is determined to retain the group system, it could assign the group winners and runners-up to places in the knockout stage via a weighted lottery, like the one used in the National Basketball Association’s annual draft. Alternatively, the four group winners could simply be allowed to select their opponents, picking in order of their record in the group stage, and then in order of their point differential for teams that are tied.

...
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Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#40
#40
I can't figure out how to show this but follow the link. Gross errors by boxing referees have plagued the Olympics for decades. You can't tell me this ref wasn't paid a lot of money because he had to know his career was going to be over after this performance. Also, two of the judges scoring the bout were suspended. According to the final score, the guy in blue scored 10 clean hits in the final round. Yeah, right.

I suppose all the IOC can do is keep eliminating the bad refs when the find them but what do you tell the Japanese boxer? This was so gross that I don't think anyone would complain if the IOC reversed the decision. There is probably no provision for that.

Look at the guy in blue holding himself up as he awaits the decision.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#41
#41
Can't believe USA basketball won by 83 today. Hope that doesn't give more credence to an U23 tournament, which I;d hate, and makes little sense if the rumor that Stern wants a World Cup is true, as the chance of injury in a World Cup of basketball is the same as the Olympics. They're both off season tournaments with games bunched together. Makes no sense to complain about injury potential in the Olympics, only to replace the Olympics with another freakin tournament.

USA womens soccer are kicking a**.

Congrats to the womens gymnastics team. Amazing to me how teenage girls excel under such pressure. Joy to watch. The men seemed to choke.

Diving is quite boring, Table tennis is worse.

Our swim program is pretty impressive, both mens and womens. Surprised Natalie Caughlin was dropped from the team. She lives in the same city as me and works out at the same gym where i see her swimming often, is a delightful woman to talk to, and I was really pulling for her. But these things happen.

Looking forward to track and field, and don't know why so many events are well under way yet the staple of the Olympics hasn't yet started.

As an aside, the NBC coverage has been pathetic. Already knew many results hours before they showed the event. What's more is how much they cherry pick what they show, and even when tape delayed the coverage almost seems forced with all the pointless interviews and ins and outs of all the American athletes. How about showing more teams and more athletes from other countries???? I have a number of friends in Europe and their coverage covers much, much more than just their own countries. It's comprehensive. The Olympics isn't just about American athletes, who'm I enjoy watching and root for, but also ALL the top athletes. For a country with people who come from all over the world and have friends and family in many countries, you'd expect the coverage to be more comprehensive.
 
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PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
#42
#42
rainmaker said:
Can't believe USA basketball won by 83 today. Hope that doesn't give more credence to an U23 tournament, which I;d hate, and makes little sense if the rumor that Stern wants a World Cup is true, as the chance of injury in a World Cup of basketball is the same as the Olympics. They're both off season tournaments with games bunched together. Makes no sense to complain about injury potential in the Olympics, only to replace the Olympics with another freakin tournament.

USA womens soccer are kicking a**.

Congrats to the womens gymnastics team. Amazing to me how teenage girls excel under such pressure. Joy to watch. The men seemed to choke.

Diving is quite boring, Table tennis is worse.

Our swim program is pretty impressive, both mens and womens. Surprised Natalie Caughlin was dropped from the team. She lives in the same city as me and works out at the same gym where i see her swimming often, is a delightful woman to talk to, and I was really pulling for her. But these things happen.

Looking forward to track and field, and don't know why so many events are well under way yet the staple of the Olympics hasn't yet started.

As an aside, the NBC coverage has been pathetic. Already knew many results hours before they showed the event. What's more is how much they cherry pick what they show, and even when tape delayed the coverage almost seems forced with all the pointless interviews and ins and outs of all the American athletes. How about showing more teams and more athletes from other countries???? I have a number of friends in Europe and their coverage covers much, much more than just their own countries. It's comprehensive. The Olympics isn't just about American athletes, who'm I enjoy watching and root for, but also ALL the top athletes. For a country with people who come from all over the world and have friends and family in many countries, you'd expect the coverage to be more comprehensive.
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I always most look forward to track and field in olympics. It's always been signature competition in summer games as only such events before glut of other individual and team sports were added on through the years. Traditionally, very last event of the games is marathon (at conclusion of T&F) with winner running into the stadium and around oval track once to the finish line - and thundeous ovation from the packed house.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/eyes-bolt-blake-duel-olympic-athletics-kick-off-032622522--oly.html
 
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PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
#43
#43
PurpleHaze said:
I always most look forward to track and field in olympics. It's always been signature competition in summer games as only such events before glut of other individual and team sports were added on through the years. Traditionally, very last event of the games is marathon (at conclusion of T&F) with winner running into the stadium and around oval track once to the finish line - and thundeous ovation from the packed house.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/eyes-bolt-blake-duel-olympic-athletics-kick-off-032622522--oly.html
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http://news.yahoo.com/wow-11-old-cheetah-breaks-land-speed-record-201912018.html (and even if you don't prefer track - you'll love this!)
 
BamBam52

BamBam52

Bench
#44
#44
That drubbing by the Bball team today was amazing and awesome to watch. Twenty-nine 3pt FG's in one game? Redonkulous! Carmelo could do no wrong. A part of me wants to feel embarrassed for Nigeria, but at the same time, I'm sure they expected this hand washing, so I don't really feel bad. USA! USA! USA!

P.S.- Bring back Baseball please!? Table Tennis, Equestrian and Shooting have no business being in the Olympics over that sport IMO!
 
S

spudfan

Starter
#45
#45
Glenn said:
I can't figure out how to show this but follow the link. Gross errors by boxing referees have plagued the Olympics for decades. You can't tell me this ref wasn't paid a lot of money because he had to know his career was going to be over after this performance. Also, two of the judges scoring the bout were suspended. According to the final score, the guy in blue scored 10 clean hits in the final round. Yeah, right.

I suppose all the IOC can do is keep eliminating the bad refs when the find them but what do you tell the Japanese boxer? This was so gross that I don't think anyone would complain if the IOC reversed the decision. There is probably no provision for that.

Look at the guy in blue holding himself up as he awaits the decision.
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I mentioned a friend earlier who had a good chance of going in boxing. He had some huge issues with the referees during the qualifications for his country. If I remember right, it was down to the last fight where the winner was almost guaranteed to get an Olympic spot. It was pretty clear he won, but they called it the other way. It was a political decision as the other boxer was more well known and connected. That's when he went pro as an appeal would have done little good.

Hard for me to watch sports where a judge decides the winner. Sports like gymnastics and boxing are enjoyable, but I don't know enough to tell if someone is getting cheated or not. Give me times and goals any day!
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#46
#46
Random thoughts:

I really enjoy the Olympics. It's great to see Americans pulling together in a common cause instead of fighting over stupid politics.

The US women have really made the games exciting.

Water polo is the most underrated sport on the planet.

Badminton is no more an Olympic-worthy sport than tetherball.

NBC coverage sucks. Meredith Viera as the lead female reporter? Poor, poor choice IMHO.

I think the Brits like rooting for us when they cannot root for one of their own.

I wish a little more attention had been given to the women athletes from places like Iran and Afghanistran, who were competing for the first time in an Olympics game. I especially respect the runners, who because of religious restrictions, were forced to wear clothing that covered them head to toe. Talk about a handicap.

A friend in London says they have 22 channels of coverage. I sure wish we had better coverage of some of the less-popular events.

Michael Phelps is beyond amazing.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#48
#48
rainmaker said:
Can't believe USA basketball won by 83 today. Hope that doesn't give more credence to an U23 tournament, which I;d hate, and makes little sense if the rumor that Stern wants a World Cup is true, as the chance of injury in a World Cup of basketball is the same as the Olympics. They're both off season tournaments with games bunched together. Makes no sense to complain about injury potential in the Olympics, only to replace the Olympics with another freakin tournament.
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Reminds of the difference between guys warming up for a game and how they shoot during the game. I didn't see the game but they probably had the mindset that there was no defense to worry about. I enjoyed basketball when we fielded only a college team. Not sure why.

I love women's soccer and volleyball. Pretty hard to beat them. Both sports are two of my favorites. Three cheers for Title IX!! The volleyball team is stacked with great athletes and although any team can be beaten, it would be amazing if they were beaten.

My wife and I like weight lifting but we watch it streaming online. Somehow seeing the whole build up to the lift creates a better story.

Do the Chinese do much in track and field? I suspect not and those who count medals will watch us pull away from China. My warning is that some day, China will get involved in track and field and the medal count may not be as much fun. I can't switch off my nationalism but still there are other stories that are interesting. How about the woman who was 8 months pregnant. She was a high jumper, right?
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#49
#49
Glenn said:
Do people know about this? NBCOlympics
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Thanks for the link. I knew it was out there but hadn't bothered to check it out as I don't really like to watch sports on my computer. (Call me old-fashioned. ;) ) I didn't realize it included a complete schedule of events. Now I have a little better idea of what events I should be looking out for.
 
uolj

uolj

Starter
#50
#50
Glenn said:
Do people know about this? NBCOlympics
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Yeah... watching it right now waiting for the Men's 100m final in a couple minutes.

It's not perfect, but I'm really happy it's there. Ideally they would just put up 10-20 channels on cable and satellite lineups and have the same access available to people using their TVs, but this is still something.

I like that they have replays available of most events so you can go back and watch something that ran at 2am pacific time, but the headliners (like the 100m dash) have to be watched live online or wait until the end of the primetime telecast on NBC. That's a bummer. Also the headliners don't allow pausing/rewinding/fast forwarding. Still, if you want to see some of the more obscure events or watch the big ones live it's a pretty good deal.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#53
#53
Why not?
[video=google;4122944961711350389]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4122944961711350389[/video]
 
Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#54
#54
Katie Taylor just won gold for Ireland. Proud moment! She's unbelievable. And the Irish fans did themselves proud, they were ridiculously loud.


[/self-praise and pride]
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#56
#56
Dime Dropper said:
Katie Taylor just won gold for Ireland. Proud moment! She's unbelievable. And the Irish fans did themselves proud, they were ridiculously loud.


[/self-praise and pride]
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The Olympics are full of stories and at the end of it all, pride is not to be overlooked. We vicariously get our thrills that way. It's important for awhile but isn't that what the Olympics is for? It's for the athletes obviously but it's also for the countries especially those who have little to say for themselves I'm not including Ireland in this category but didn't Guatemala win a medal? I know that when the Philippines wins something, it's a moment of huge pride.

Go Ireland!!
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#57
#57
As of last night, the USA had 34 golds and 21 were won by women. Subtract the 8 golds from men's swimming and the men have contributed 5 golds. I presume that will change when track and field are over. Here's an addition from the 8/10/2012 Bee:

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/08/10/4712006/us-women-make-a-statement-in-london.html

As the London Olympics near their end, one of the biggest, most significant storylines is the dominance of America's female athletes.

There's no other word for it. It's because of the women – not the men – that the United States stands atop the medal table.

From teen sensation Missy Franklin in the swimming pool, to 200-meter champion Allyson Felix on the track, to Gabby Douglas and Aly Raisman on the gymnastics floor, to three-peat champions Misty May-Treanor and Kerri Walsh Jennings in beach volleyball, women are racking up the golds.

And the medals kept coming Thursday, with a remarkable flurry in team competition.

The fabulous women's soccer team defeated Japan 2-1 in another thriller, exacting sweet revenge over the team that broke their hearts with a penalty shootout win in last year's World Cup final. It was the third gold medal in a row for the United States. Megan Rapinoe of Redding was among six Californians on this team.

More
 
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Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#60
#60
Glenn said:
The Olympics are full of stories and at the end of it all, pride is not to be overlooked. We vicariously get our thrills that way. It's important for awhile but isn't that what the Olympics is for? It's for the athletes obviously but it's also for the countries especially those who have little to say for themselves I'm not including Ireland in this category but didn't Guatemala win a medal? I know that when the Philippines wins something, it's a moment of huge pride.

Go Ireland!!
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For sure! We are only a small country but produce some good athletes, particularly in boxing when it comes to the Olympics. Have three fighters fighting tomorrow, with them all guaranteed to medal. Hopefully at least one of them can get gold (my guess is if it's anyone, it will be John-Joe Nevin, very skilled fighter. Very difficult to catch).


Anyway, here's Katie!

 
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