Monta

[Purple Reign]

I'm sorry, but count me in the "I am glad that VIVEK SAVED THIS TEAM, AND I ACTUALLY HAVE BASKETBALL TO TALK ABOUT" side of things.

Reading some of the post, some of ya'll act like this new ownership and GM is the second coming of Al Davis!!!! I don't think that having:

Jason Thompson
DeMarcus Cousins
Monta Ellis
Ben McLemore
Isaiah Thomas
Patrick Patterson
Carl Landry
Marcus Thornton
is the worst thing in the world. In fact I feel that it is a talent upgrade. Now does it look like it matches on paper....probably not. But give Coach Malone a chance for crying out loud. Those that are jumping ship and say they are no longer Kings fans, SHAME ON YOU....you can tolerate the Maloofs, but you wont even give VR/PDA/MM a chance to put the team on the floor.....KICK ROCKS AND DON'T COME BACK!!!!!!!!

 

[Agent23]

I'm sorry, but count me in the "I am glad that VIVEK SAVED THIS TEAM, AND I ACTUALLY HAVE BASKETBALL TO TALK ABOUT" side of things.

Reading some of the post, some of ya'll act like this new ownership and GM is the second coming of Al Davis!!!! I don't think that having:

Jason Thompson
DeMarcus Cousins
Monta Ellis
Ben McLemore
Isaiah Thomas
Patrick Patterson
Carl Landry
Marcus Thornton
is the worst thing in the world. In fact I feel that it is a talent upgrade. Now does it look like it matches on paper....probably not. But give Coach Malone a chance for crying out loud. Those that are jumping ship and say they are no longer Kings fans, SHAME ON YOU....you can tolerate the Maloofs, but you wont even give VR/PDA/MM a chance to put the team on the floor.....KICK ROCKS AND DON'T COME BACK!!!!!!!!

You forgot Greivas Vasquez. You know, they got we got for not matching Reke's offer.

 

[Kingster]

sure it does. even if tyreke evans doesn't produce an ounce above his per 36 numbers for 2012-2013, $11 million per is the going rate for that kind of production in the contemporary nba, particularly given his age and offensive efficiency. just because you don't value evans at $11 million per doesn't mean that he couldn't be moved at $11 million per. i'm also sick and tired of hearing the argument that the only team that wanted tyreke evans at that price tag was new orleans. that is a truly disingenuous appraisal of the 2013 free agent market, and is completely devoid of context or critical thinking. there were only a handful of teams with cap space this offseason, the majority of which were all bidding for dwight howard's services. as with any offseason in which a major free agent hits the market, the dominoes don't start falling until after that free agent has signed...

dallas, for instance, was reportedly interested in tyreke evans as a backup plan to dwight howard, but failed to make an offer because they were waiting first on an answer from dwight. by the time they received it, evans had already signed with new orleans. we simply do not know what mark cuban might have offered, or what any other team might have offered, for that matter. we especially don't know which among the 23 teams without the cap space necessary to sign evans outright might value him at $11 million per. considering what indiana pays danny granger to sit injured on their bench, and considering they're a hard-nosed team that values paint scoring, perhaps they'd bite on an evans trade in the future. you do not know, therefore you cannot unequivocally assert this claim you love to make so often...

Well, I'll make you even more sick: the only team that wanted him at $11 mill was NO. And even sicker still: if other teams wanted him at $11 mill they would have made room to get him (like NO did). He got tepid interest from Detroit, and with Atlanta Tyreke's agents gave them a call to get a meeting. Once that $11 mill got in the ether, "interest" dried up rapidly.

 

[Padrino]

I'm sorry, but count me in the "I am glad that VIVEK SAVED THIS TEAM, AND I ACTUALLY HAVE BASKETBALL TO TALK ABOUT" side of things.

Reading some of the post, some of ya'll act like this new ownership and GM is the second coming of Al Davis!!!! I don't think that having:

Jason Thompson
DeMarcus Cousins
Monta Ellis
Ben McLemore
Isaiah Thomas
Patrick Patterson
Carl Landry
Marcus Thornton
is the worst thing in the world. In fact I feel that it is a talent upgrade. Now does it look like it matches on paper....probably not. But give Coach Malone a chance for crying out loud. Those that are jumping ship and say they are no longer Kings fans, SHAME ON YOU....you can tolerate the Maloofs, but you wont even give VR/PDA/MM a chance to put the team on the floor.....KICK ROCKS AND DON'T COME BACK!!!!!!!!

as someone who's seen a great deal worse as a kings fan, i don't have patience for people who can't stomach the tough stretches...

as someone who's seen a great deal worse as a kings fan, i also don't have patience for short-sighted front offices. it's perfectly acceptable to criticize a transaction that has the potential to cripple the kings' flexibility for the next half-decade or more, especially when considering that the kings have been dead last in just about every major defensive category for the last half-decade or more. based on the premise that a team must improve in those defensive categories in order to develop a winning culture, the above does not, in my estimation, represent a talent upgrade, hence a great many criticisms that i believe to be fair. i will give coach malone his opportunity to work magic with what is, at this moment, a decidedly inept defensive roster, but the front office must be held accountable for the personnel they provide and the flexibility they either retain or eliminate in accordance with those transactions...

 

[Bricklayer]

Very reasonable.

However, the 2 above posts highlight what many KF posters have been saying the last few days (albeit in a much more aggressive tone). Calling him worse than Kahn? Asinine.

Is it? Do we know that?

 

[Bricklayer]

I have decided that if they let Cuz go im following him to his new team. That would be the end for me personally with the kings and i would need a new team and that seems a good way of choosing one

surly our GM isnt stupid enough to trade him/let him walk right???

Let him walk? Never.

Trade him for Amare Stoudemire's contract? Hmmm...

 

[The_Jamal]

Is it? Do we know that?

8 days into his career. Yes.

Now a year or 2 down the line when we actually have something to judge him on? Then judge him to your hearts content

 

[Padrino]

Well, I'll make you even more sick: the only team that wanted him at $11 mill was NO. And even sicker still: if other teams wanted him at $11 mill they would have made room to get him (like NO did). He got tepid interest from Detroit, and with Atlanta Tyreke's agents gave them a call to get a meeting. Once that $11 mill got in the ether, "interest" dried up rapidly.

that's quite the confirmation bias you've got there. but believe what you will. i've been so busy engaging others at kf.com that i suppose i forgot just how much it's like talking to a crack in a dam when i respond to your posts...

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

I don't want to sign Monta unless a trade is happening that makes sense. I am trying to be optimistic.

 

[Kingster]

Napier want to know: Yeah or Neigh on Monte Ellis. Give him a call.

 

[Bricklayer]

8 days into his career. Yes.

By that point a Kahn figure will have deeply deeply damaged your franchise.

And Kahn was Kahn 8 days into his career too. Any Minnesota fan who called him out on it 8 days in would have been absolutely right.

 

[Nikolizzle]

I have to defend the decision.

I loved Evans, but he was going nowhere in this team.

Monta is a borderline star, who has that killer instinct and is above all, a clutch player. Not to mention, he's got real All-Star potential.

I'd prefer to have him than not, since Evans aint coming back. Screw "Advanced stats".

 

[sdballer]

I have to defend the decision.

I loved Evans, but he was going nowhere in this team.

Monta is a borderline star, who has that killer instinct and is above all, a clutch player. Not to mention, he's got real All-Star potential.

I'd prefer to have him than not, since Evans aint coming back. Screw "Advanced stats".

Wow. The lack of basketball knowledge on here sometimes frightens me.

Monta is a volume scorer who is a worse shooter, defender, character than the younger guy we let go because we wanted to improve our ball movement and shooting. Monta is past the potential stage of his career.

 

[sdballer]

By that point a Kahn figure will have deeply deeply damaged your franchise.

And Kahn was Kahn 8 days into his career too. Any Minnesota fan who called him out on it 8 days in would have been absolutely right.

This, bad decisions are bad decisions. How many new gms came in and made so many questionable decisions to start their career and turned things around in a couple seasons?

Believe it or not, it isn't necessary to make bad decisions in order to make good ones down the road.

 

[jcwkings]

Wow. The lack of basketball knowledge on here sometimes frightens me.

Monta is a volume scorer who is a worse shooter, defender, character than the younger guy we let go because we wanted to improve our ball movement and shooting. Monta is past the potential stage of his career.

Monta Ellis is a better shooter than Tyreke will ever be, in fact i would say he is one of the only "complete" pure SG's scorers left in the league, meaning he can score in the paint, midrange jumpers, and he can hit the 3, quick first step. Tyreke is a better defender, especially 1 on 1(couldn't tell you if Monta is disciplined team defender, but has averaged over 2 steals per game before multiple times). And Tyreke yes is a better character guy, but almost to his detriment(he's too nice/reserved imo for someone you want to be a star player), but Vivek and Malone know Monta well, they wouldn't be vetting him if they thought he was uncoachable or was a cancer in a locker room. Monta was beloved in Golden State(remember fans boo'ed the owner after the trade), he isn't some guy that was taken to pasture and put down. He was traded because he wasn't a good fit with Steph Curry. They made the right choice, doesn't make Monta any less of a player. Here are his stats.

SEASON TEAM GP GS MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
'05-'06
GS
49 3 18.1 2.7-6.5 .415 0.6-1.7 .341 0.9-1.2 .712 0.5 1.7 2.1 1.6 0.2 0.7 1.4 1.2 6.8
'06-'07
GS
77 53 34.3 6.2-13.1 .475 0.5-1.9 .273 3.5-4.6 .763 0.8 2.4 3.2 4.1 0.3 1.7 2.7 2.9 16.5
'07-'08
GS
81 72 37.9 8.0-15.1 .531 0.1-0.6 .231 4.0-5.1 .767 1.6 3.4 5.0 3.9 0.3 1.5 2.4 2.1 20.2
'08-'09
GS
25 25 35.7 7.8-17.2 .451 0.3-1.0 .308 3.1-3.8 .830 0.6 3.8 4.3 3.7 0.3 1.6 2.7 2.7 19.0
'09-'10
GS
64 64 41.4 9.9-22.0 .449 1.2-3.6 .338 4.6-6.1 .753 0.7 3.3 4.0 5.3 0.4 2.2 3.0 3.8 25.5
'10-'11
GS
80 80 40.3 9.1-20.1 .451 1.7-4.7 .361 4.3-5.4 .789 0.6 3.0 3.5 5.6 0.3 2.1 2.5 3.2 24.1
'11-'12
GS
37 37 36.9 8.2-19.0 .433 1.4-4.2 .321 4.1-5.0 .812 0.4 3.0 3.4 6.0 0.3 1.5 2.3 3.3 21.9
'11-'12
MIL
21 21 36.0 6.9-16.0 .432 0.6-2.1 .267 3.2-4.2 .764 0.2 3.3 3.5 5.9 0.3 1.4 2.5 2.6 17.6
'12-'13
MIL
82 82 37.5 7.3-17.5 .416 1.1-4.0 .287 3.5-4.6 .773 0.6 3.3 3.9 6.0 0.4 2.1 2.0 3.1 19.2
Career 516 437 36.0 7.5-16.4 .456 0.9-2.8 .318 3.6-4.6 .773 0.8 3.0 3.7 4.7 0.3 1.7 2.4 2.8 19.4

This is not a post to defend our FO if we sign Monta, this is more a post for a reality check of what Monta is/has been. prior to Steph/Jennings he was a guy that averaged 25 ppg plus on good shooting averages(yes i know on bad teams). It is not absurd to think he is worth $10-$12 million, i probably wouldn't do it for preference, but he is in that range tbh.

 

[funkykingston]

Even if you believe that Ellis is a stud SG and one of the most complete scorers in the league, why sign him to a multiyear deal if McLemore is really the SG of the future and the stud that the FO believes he is?

It would imply one of three things:

(1) McLemore gets pushed the bench, stunting his development
(2) Somebody is playing out of position - either Ellis at PG or McLemore at SF - either one would be a horrible mistake IMO
(3) Ellis is coming off the bench, meaning the Kings would be paying $18 million or so for two backup SGs between Ellis and Thornton.

Again, how would signing Ellis possibly be a good move?

 

[sdballer]

Monta Ellis is a better shooter than Tyreke will ever be, in fact i would say he is one of the only "complete" pure SG's scorers left in the league, meaning he can score in the paint, midrange jumpers, and he can hit the 3, quick first step. Tyreke is a better defender, especially 1 on 1(couldn't tell you if Monta is disciplined team defender, but has averaged over 2 steals per game before multiple times). And Tyreke yes is a better character guy, but almost to his detriment(he's too nice/reserved imo for someone you want to be a star player), but Vivek and Malone know Monta well, they wouldn't be vetting him if they thought he was uncoachable or was a cancer in a locker room. Monta was beloved in Golden State(remember fans boo'ed the owner after the trade), he isn't some guy that was taken to pasture and put down. He was traded because he wasn't a good fit with Steph Curry. They made the right choice, doesn't make Monta any less of a player. Here are his stats.

SEASON TEAM GP GS MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
'05-'06
GS
49 3 18.1 2.7-6.5 .415 0.6-1.7 .341 0.9-1.2 .712 0.5 1.7 2.1 1.6 0.2 0.7 1.4 1.2 6.8
'06-'07
GS
77 53 34.3 6.2-13.1 .475 0.5-1.9 .273 3.5-4.6 .763 0.8 2.4 3.2 4.1 0.3 1.7 2.7 2.9 16.5
'07-'08
GS
81 72 37.9 8.0-15.1 .531 0.1-0.6 .231 4.0-5.1 .767 1.6 3.4 5.0 3.9 0.3 1.5 2.4 2.1 20.2
'08-'09
GS
25 25 35.7 7.8-17.2 .451 0.3-1.0 .308 3.1-3.8 .830 0.6 3.8 4.3 3.7 0.3 1.6 2.7 2.7 19.0
'09-'10
GS
64 64 41.4 9.9-22.0 .449 1.2-3.6 .338 4.6-6.1 .753 0.7 3.3 4.0 5.3 0.4 2.2 3.0 3.8 25.5
'10-'11
GS
80 80 40.3 9.1-20.1 .451 1.7-4.7 .361 4.3-5.4 .789 0.6 3.0 3.5 5.6 0.3 2.1 2.5 3.2 24.1
'11-'12
GS
37 37 36.9 8.2-19.0 .433 1.4-4.2 .321 4.1-5.0 .812 0.4 3.0 3.4 6.0 0.3 1.5 2.3 3.3 21.9
'11-'12
MIL
21 21 36.0 6.9-16.0 .432 0.6-2.1 .267 3.2-4.2 .764 0.2 3.3 3.5 5.9 0.3 1.4 2.5 2.6 17.6
'12-'13
MIL
82 82 37.5 7.3-17.5 .416 1.1-4.0 .287 3.5-4.6 .773 0.6 3.3 3.9 6.0 0.4 2.1 2.0 3.1 19.2
Career 516 437 36.0 7.5-16.4 .456 0.9-2.8 .318 3.6-4.6 .773 0.8 3.0 3.7 4.7 0.3 1.7 2.4 2.8 19.4

This is not a post to defend our FO if we sign Monta, this is more a post for a reality check of what Monta is/has been. prior to Steph/Jennings he was a guy that averaged 25 ppg plus on good shooting averages(yes i know on bad teams). It is not absurd to think he is worth $10-$12 million, i probably wouldn't do it for preference, but he is in that range tbh.

Why would you post stats that don't support your claims. Monta is a 43% and below shooter the past few seasons and shot 28% on threes last year in over 4 attempts a game. He is a bad shooter who takes a ton of shots.

In terms of his personality, he's had well documented issues and his past coach, who vivek should know well, claims the culture and team improved once monta left.

If you really thought Reke at 11M was outrageous but monta is ok at the same, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Chupacabra]

Even if you believe that Ellis is a stud SG and one of the most complete scorers in the league, why sign him to a multiyear deal if McLemore is really the SG of the future and the stud that the FO believes he is?

It would imply one of three things:

(1) McLemore gets pushed the bench, stunting his development
(2) Somebody is playing out of position - either Ellis at PG or McLemore at SF - either one would be a horrible mistake IMO
(3) Ellis is coming off the bench, meaning the Kings would be paying $18 million or so for two backup SGs between Ellis and Thornton.

Again, how would signing Ellis possibly be a good move?

Another option would be to pair Ellis up with 1 or 2 of our other players and trade them all away for 1 big piece.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Monta Ellis is a better shooter than Tyreke will ever be

Some of us have pointed out that Tyreke improved his shooting last year. For instance, Tyreke's 3P% last year was .338, not amazing, but better than Monta's .287 last year and .318 career. Tyreke's TS% last year was .558, better than Monta's .493 last year and .526 career.

I don't think I'd be nearly so confident that Tyreke will never surpass Monta's shooting.

 

[sidney]

Even if you believe that Ellis is a stud SG and one of the most complete scorers in the league, why sign him to a multiyear deal if McLemore is really the SG of the future and the stud that the FO believes he is?

It would imply one of three things:

(1) McLemore gets pushed the bench, stunting his development
(2) Somebody is playing out of position - either Ellis at PG or McLemore at SF - either one would be a horrible mistake IMO
(3) Ellis is coming off the bench, meaning the Kings would be paying $18 million or so for two backup SGs between Ellis and Thornton.

Again, how would signing Ellis possibly be a good move?

All I can think is that the plan would be that Ellis gets some time at PG with McLemore at SG. Thornton/IT/Jimmer all likely moved in trade leaving us with a completely new guard lineup.

 

[LPKingsFan]

All I can think is that the plan would be that Ellis gets some time at PG with McLemore at SG. Thornton/IT/Jimmer all likely moved in trade leaving us with a completely new guard lineup.

Yeah, that's the only way it makes sense to me, too. For what it's worth, Monta's PER last year was actually better at PG than SG (link), and MIL's best lineup had him there next to Reddick at the 2.

 

[beb0p]

Even if you believe that Ellis is a stud SG and one of the most complete scorers in the league, why sign him to a multiyear deal if McLemore is really the SG of the future and the stud that the FO believes he is?

It would imply one of three things:

(1) McLemore gets pushed the bench, stunting his development
(2) Somebody is playing out of position - either Ellis at PG or McLemore at SF - either one would be a horrible mistake IMO
(3) Ellis is coming off the bench, meaning the Kings would be paying $18 million or so for two backup SGs between Ellis and Thornton.

Again, how would signing Ellis possibly be a good move?

I'm guessing McLemore comes off the bench to fill the Brandon Rush role of the 2011-12 Warriors. The starting SF would go to the bench and the Kings play with a 3-guards lineup of Vasquez, Ellis, and McLemore. Depending on the opposing team's SF, 6'6" Vasquez would potentially guard the SF, allowing for a more typical matchup size-wise.

They can also rest Vasquez at some point and use Ellis as the PG (in short mins of course). Basically the starting SF is mostly for defense and will go to the bench and ends up playing less mins than his replacement (McLemore). This may also explain why they aren't aggressively pursuing a starting SF.

Again, all speculation. As long as the Kings haven't signed Monta yet, there's still a chance that this is just a smokescreen.

 

[roasthawg]

Yeah, seems like it's a foregone conclusion that Thornton and Jimmer are gone. MLM, Vasquez, Monta, and maybe IT would be the guards in this scenario I'd guess.

 

[jcwkings]

Why would you post stats that don't support your claims. Monta is a 43% and below shooter the past few seasons and shot 28% on threes last year in over 4 attempts a game. He is a bad shooter who takes a ton of shots.

In terms of his personality, he's had well documented issues and his past coach, who vivek should know well, claims the culture and team improved once monta left.

If you really thought Reke at 11M was outrageous but monta is ok at the same, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm talking about his Golden State years, In Milwaukee he and Jennings were just about the worst backcourt pairing you could think of. In his Golden State years, particularly before Steph he did a lot of his work off the ball(rather than the iso heavy chucker you guys are assuming he is from his Buck days). Yes, he is not a great 3 pt shooter, but he is a serviceable one, and his midrange jumper is amongst the best in the league. He also has a phenomenal first step and is one of the best penetrating guards in the leauge who finishes well. If you eliminate his stint in Milwaukee, he is very much in the $10-$12 million, and frankly would be considered a better value than Tyreke(whose career average is .449 for a guy that does all his work inside). But this shouldn't be a Tyreke vs Monta. I would rather not have Monta, but signing him for $10 million would not be the terrible contract that you guys assume it is, especially with it at max only being 4 years, meaning 3 productive years (age 27-30), and you have an expiring contract on the fourth at still only age 31.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Although its interesting, and maybe a part of being a passionate fan, that before the Iggy saga went down I went out of my way to state he was an overrated role player who had no business making 10. When we were in the mix for him, my belief in the FO and my desire to see this team's dynamic change led me to all of a sudden wanting him at 4/52. with this Monta situation, my mind vomits at the suggestion and I would have laughed before this rumor started. now there is that feeling creeping in once again of the excitement for change that only now makes him 99% (not 100% as 2 days ago) detestable

 

[Kingsfan23]

Given the demand for him, and the diminished amount of suitors with space, someone is getting him for a bargain, and hopefully its not us

 

[D-Mass]

Sam Amick (@sam_amick) tweeted at 4:55 PM on Mon, Jul 08, 2013:
Hasn't been as loud on my end as others “@SactownKings916: Hey @sam_amick has the Monta to Sac died down finally??”
(https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/354388276607598592)

 

[jcwkings]

Also the Sac rumors could just be Monta's agent leaking stuff to try and drive up Monta's value to Atlanta/ other teams. All things to consider in the Twitter era of NBA Free Agency.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

please let this nightmare end. i dont know if ill be able to sleep at night until Monta has signed somewhere so i no longer have to worry about the possibility of him signing here

 

[funkykingston]

Another option would be to pair Ellis up with 1 or 2 of our other players and trade them all away for 1 big piece.

Considering Ellis will reportedly get $10-$12 million per year, that'd have to be a pretty expensive player the Kings would be packaging him with other players to get.