Ben McLemore

#91
Kevin Durant and Ray Allen aren't great ball handlers, John Salmons is a very good ball handler, only 2 of those are going to be Hall of Famers. And btw you can improve your ball handling, Kevin Durant was absolutely uncomfortable doing anything off the dribble as a rookie, now he brings the ball if Westbrook isn't in the game. People on here are just way overrating Tyreke as if he is the next Dwayne Wade or Lebron James. I like Tyreke and hope he stays, but lets state the facts, four years into his career he still is TERRIBLE shooting off the dribble, which is an absolute must for any ball dominant guard, his basketball IQ isn't Elite, its average at best, he doesn't show that drive/fire/assertiveness that you see from other elite players(Kobe, Paul, Lebron, Wade, Durant etc.). He isn't an elite athlete and gets blocked at the rim more than he should, and gets tentative going inside if the other team has an good shotblocker, aside from Chris Paul, every other top star in the league has ELITE athetic ability(CP3 makes it up with immense b ball IQ, toughnees, heart, will to win).

So my question to the Tyreke is a superstar bandwaggon is, what are you guys seeing that I don't?

What i do see in Tyreke is potentially elite defensive wing stopper, that is deadly in the open floor, while he doesn't have elite athletic ability, he does have long strides to go along with a very strong frame at the guard position, which puts him at Andre Igoudala level if he reaches his potential, and a little more if he ever learns to shoot off the dribble to the point where defenses don't just concede that midrange shot to him.


There is literally so much wrong with this post that I can't even fathom where to start and I'm not even going to bother. There's a multitude of posts about Tyreke in various threads and I think you've managed to ignore every single one of them. I find it absolutely incredible that people have no idea what they're watching. It all boils down to "Tyreke isn't a jump-shooter, boo-hoo, wahhh."

Seriously, how can you ignore every post and then come back with that trash, that has been disproved probably about 5 times in the last 48 hours alone??! I'm speechless.

FWIW, I haven't seen anyone state Tyreke is going to be as good as LeBron, Durant, Wade etc.. But we're not going to sign anyone of his quality for the same price. Ah, there's literally no point in me continuing. In one ear and out the other.
 
#92
There is literally so much wrong with this post that I can't even fathom where to start and I'm not even going to bother. There's a multitude of posts about Tyreke in various threads and I think you've managed to ignore every single one of them. I find it absolutely incredible that people have no idea what they're watching. It all boils down to "Tyreke isn't a jump-shooter, boo-hoo, wahhh."

Seriously, how can you ignore every post and then come back with that trash, that has been disproved probably about 5 times in the last 48 hours alone??! I'm speechless.

FWIW, I haven't seen anyone state Tyreke is going to be as good as LeBron, Durant, Wade etc.. But we're not going to sign anyone of his quality for the same price. Ah, there's literally no point in me continuing. In one ear and out the other.
I've clearly read post that discount McLemore being a potential star, because he doesn't have elite ball handling, and mentioned that Tyreke does. That means in their mind Tyreke will become an elite player, which isn't going to happen for ALL the reasons i stated above, not just because he can't shoot(which i have no idea why you guys overlook that, when he hasn't improved in four seasons! and is an absolute MUST for any ball handling guard).

So in my view, you guys are mad we drafted a guy with a ceiling of a more athletic Ray Allen, because we already have a SG less athletic, better ball handling version of Andre Igoudala. It makes no sense, and I like Tyreke, but I don't blindly love Tyreke because he makes a good highlight mixtape(which he very well does with his crossovers and nifty finishes around the rim). He doesn't have "IT", that you see with other stars, he just doesn't, he can still be a very good player though.
 
#93
I've clearly read post that discount McLemore being a potential star, because he doesn't have elite ball handling, and mentioned that Tyreke does. That means in their mind Tyreke will become an elite player, which isn't going to happen for ALL the reasons i stated above, not just because he can't shoot(which i have no idea why you guys overlook that, when he hasn't improved in four seasons! and is an absolute MUST for any ball handling guard).

So in my view, you guys are mad we drafted a guy with a ceiling of a more athletic Ray Allen, because we already have a SG less athletic, better ball handling version of Andre Igoudala. It makes no sense, and I like Tyreke, but I don't blindly love Tyreke because he makes a good highlight mixtape(which he very well does with his crossovers and nifty finishes around the rim). He doesn't have "IT", that you see with other stars, he just doesn't, he can still be a very good player though.
From what I've seen, the consensus is that we're stoked and overjoyed that Mclemore fell to us, and that the potential of a Reke/Mclemore backcourt is amazing. Haven't seen anyone angry about Mclemore yet.
 
#94
I've clearly read post that discount McLemore being a potential star, because he doesn't have elite ball handling, and mentioned that Tyreke does. That means in their mind Tyreke will become an elite player, which isn't going to happen for ALL the reasons i stated above, not just because he can't shoot(which i have no idea why you guys overlook that, when he hasn't improved in four seasons! and is an absolute MUST for any ball handling guard).
OK, I'm going to ask for quotes here, because I literally just had this identical argument a couple of hours ago. Nobody said he CAN'T be a star. People said he has to improve his ballhandling if he wants to be a star, and that's a fair point. You can point to Ray Allen, but Allen is the greatest 3 point shooter in the history of the NBA. I think that skill more than makes up for it. McLemore is a great shooter with Allenesque form and is a better athlete than Allen ever was, but you can't just assume he's going to have the same career trajectory. And seriously now, how can you say Tyreke hasn't improved his shooting?! Let me point this out for you - it's not a matter of opinion, it's a FACT! He has improved his jumper. If you can't acknowledge that then there's something seriously wrong with your brain. He's 23, he's improving his game and already is a top 3 penetrator in the entire NBA. I haven't seen anyone say he'll be elite so that's a pretty weak argument on your part, but to deny that he COULD be an all-star level player is deluded.

So in my view, you guys are mad we drafted a guy with a ceiling of a more athletic Ray Allen, because we already have a SG less athletic, better ball handling version of Andre Igoudala. It makes no sense, and I like Tyreke, but I don't blindly love Tyreke because he makes a good highlight mixtape(which he very well does with his crossovers and nifty finishes around the rim). He doesn't have "IT", that you see with other stars, he just doesn't, he can still be a very good player though.
Quite frankly, your view is wrong. I'm not at all mad we took McLemore. I love his game and I've been a fan of him all year, since the first few college games of the season were played, when pretty much only me, Baja, and maybe one or two more even knew who he was. I'm certainly not mad. I'll be mad if we took him with the plan to replace Tyreke, that's for sure, but it'll be the FO I'm pissed off with, not McLemore as a prospect. It's not that hard to understand. I haven't seen anyone, including Brick, rainmaker, padrino or anyone else express the opinion that you're saying we are. The "it" thing is just nonsense. Tyreke will never be LeBron or Durant, that doesn't mean you marginalise them and minimise their talents.
 
#95
There's no downside to McLemore, with our without Reke. With Reke, there's potential to be the most dangerous 2-way back-court in the league. McLemore is perfectly suited to play the Boston Celtics Ray Allen role while Reke makes his living in the paint and on penetration. Both guys attack the boards as well, something that our desperately needs with Stinky Fish as our current SF.

Without Reke, we found ourselves a 2nd option comfortable playing off the high USG% DeMarcus.

Either way, I'm very excited.
 
#96
I've clearly read post that discount McLemore being a potential star, because he doesn't have elite ball handling, and mentioned that Tyreke does. That means in their mind Tyreke will become an elite player, which isn't going to happen for ALL the reasons i stated above, not just because he can't shoot(which i have no idea why you guys overlook that, when he hasn't improved in four seasons! and is an absolute MUST for any ball handling guard).

So in my view, you guys are mad we drafted a guy with a ceiling of a more athletic Ray Allen, because we already have a SG less athletic, better ball handling version of Andre Igoudala. It makes no sense, and I like Tyreke, but I don't blindly love Tyreke because he makes a good highlight mixtape(which he very well does with his crossovers and nifty finishes around the rim). He doesn't have "IT", that you see with other stars, he just doesn't, he can still be a very good player though.
you are either not aware of the facts, or you choose to ignore them outright. in either case, you're quite wrong. 'reke has obviously improved his shooting in four seasons. during his rookie campaign, he played in 72 games, averaged 37 mpg, and shot 36 of 141 from 3-pt. range, a 26% clip. last season, he played in 65 games, averaged 31 mpg, and shot 45 of 133 from 3-pt. range, a 34% clip. that represents considerable improvement. now, of course tyreke still needs to work on his mid-range game, and he needs to continue to develop his outside shot, but he's put the work in, he's putting the work in, and simply claiming that tyreke has not improved does not make it so. he's an extremely efficient, extremely versatile shooting guard that hits 48% from the field, has improved his off-the-ball play, has improved on the break, has improved defensively, and continues to improve his jumpshot. anyway, i said i wasn't gonna argue about tyreke today, but i've gone and done so anyway. i suppose i just don't like hyperbolic distortions of the truth...
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#97
There's no downside to McLemore, with our without Reke. With Reke, there's potential to be the most dangerous 2-way back-court in the league. McLemore is perfectly suited to play the Boston Celtics Ray Allen role while Reke makes his living in the paint and on penetration. Both guys attack the boards as well, something that our desperately needs with Stinky Fish as our current SF.

Without Reke, we found ourselves a 2nd option comfortable playing off the high USG% DeMarcus.

Either way, I'm very excited.
Agreed.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#98
There's no downside to McLemore, with our without Reke. With Reke, there's potential to be the most dangerous 2-way back-court in the league. McLemore is perfectly suited to play the Boston Celtics Ray Allen role while Reke makes his living in the paint and on penetration. Both guys attack the boards as well, something that our desperately needs with Stinky Fish as our current SF.

Without Reke, we found ourselves a 2nd option comfortable playing off the high USG% DeMarcus.

Either way, I'm very excited.
Oh yes, there is a downside, but its not in Mac himself.

If we drafted Mac, and out of misplaced overenthusiasm for the pick let Reke walk, we lost talent on draft day, not gained it. Then the Pelicans taking Noel instead of Mac actually hurts the team. There's the downside.

Now on the other hand if we draft Mac, still resign Reke, and because of that feel we can use Thornton as trade bait for things we need, then its all mostly positive. I still think people are perhaps overestimating the major player chances of a guy with ballhandling and aggression issues, but at the very least we'd have drafted a much more appropriate roleplayer type than MT/IT/Jimmer. And if it clicks for him something more. Getting a strong starter out of this draft is no mean feat.

So this pick being a good thing, or another (and far more damaging) Jimmer/Beno ****up will depend on the thinking behind it and the acumen of the new brain trust, which its impossible to know right now given that every one of them is a rookie at their new jobs. We will see.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#99
That means in their mind Tyreke will become an elite player, which isn't going to happen for ALL the reasons i stated above, not just because he can't shoot(which i have no idea why you guys overlook that, when he hasn't improved in four seasons! and is an absolute MUST for any ball handling guard).
This is so *** backwards that it hurts. I seriously think some significant percentage of Kings fans think the sum total of basketball is being the fat guy down at the park shooting 40 uncontested foul line jumpers and then going over and plopping down to towel off and chug some Gatorade.

Amongst star level players shooting is ROUTINELY, not just occasionally, but ROUTINELY the very weakest thing they do. The very last thing to develop. I have a theory of why that is true too: many stars are physically dominant. Almost all have kicked the crap out of everyone else with their other skills so easily throughout their lives that its not until they hit the NBA that they finally have to learn a comparatively passive outside shooting game. But that shooting game can and has been learned time and again. Not to the point of dominance, but to the point of counterattacking ability. On the other hand guys who come in shooters will never have the ballahndling and physical gifts that separates the stars.

What do Lebron James and Dwayne Wade and Tony Parker and Chris Paul and Magic Johnson and Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan and Kevin Johnson and Russel Westbrook and Derrick Rose and John Wall and Clyde Drexler and Gary Payton and Chauncey Billups and Jason Kidd and just etc. etc. etc. all have in common? None of them could shoot. All of them were physically dominant first, and then gradually became good enough shooters to supplement their dominance.

Oh, and BTW, Reke's shooting has gotten better too. Even with no further improvements there is nothing separating him from being an 18-20ppg score but Keith Smart, minutes and shots. And there are very few of those left at the SG position right now.
 
All I'll say is this, Unless Evans is playing the 1 he will have his hands full beating out this kid for the starting 2 spot. This is why we follow right?
 
This is so *** backwards that it hurts. I seriously think some significant percentage of Kings fans think the sum total of basketball is being the fat guy down at the park shooting 40 uncontested foul line jumpers and then going over and plopping down to towel off and chug some Gatorade.

Amongst star level players shooting is ROUTINELY, not just occasionally, but ROUTINELY the very weakest thing they do. The very last thing to develop. I have a theory of why that is true too: many stars are physically dominant. Almost all have kicked the crap out of everyone else with their other skills so easily throughout their lives that its not until they hit the NBA that they finally have to learn a comparatively passive outside shooting game. But that shooting game can and has been learned time and again. Not to the point of dominance, but to the point of counterattacking ability. On the other hand guys who come in shooters will never have the ballahndling and physical gifts that separates the stars.

What do Lebron James and Dwayne Wade and Tony Parker and Chris Paul and Magic Johnson and Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan and Kevin Johnson and Russel Westbrook and Derrick Rose and John Wall and Clyde Drexler and Gary Payton and Chauncey Billups and Jason Kidd and just etc. etc. etc. all have in common? None of them could shoot. All of them were physically dominant first, and then gradually became good enough shooters to supplement their dominance.

Oh, and BTW, Reke's shooting has gotten better too. Even with no further improvements there is nothing separating him from being an 18-20ppg score but Keith Smart, minutes and shots. And there are very few of those left at the SG position right now.
This about sums it up. Except Tyreke is a pg. ;)
 
We were actively trying to move up to get him. One thing that confuses me is that Vivek in interview has said the team might have tried to 'buy' its way up in the draft.. The exact quote from the post-draft press conference was "calling people, seeing if we could pay some money and go down to 5 or 4 or 3".
 
The thing that McLemore has that nearly every star 2 guard has is athleticism. People can learn to become better ball-handlers or better shooters(something McLemore doesn't need to worry about). McLemore only has one season of college basketball under his belt, and there is no reason he can't develop into a better ball handler with the right mentoring.
 
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bajaden

Hall of Famer
Your ability to understand the traits of a role player vs star is again left wanting. No one is saying MLM can't become a star, actually most are pointing out he has star talent and the most upside in the draft.

Yet, what are his strengths? Shooting, movement without the ball and athleticism. Decent defender too with upside on that side of the ball. What are his weaknesses? Can't create well off the bounce for himself or others and mentally isn't aggressive enough. Actually, his lack of aggression is something which keeps popping up. Of course he hasn't played a minute in the NBA yet and a lot of this can change, but going off where he is right now he practically is the definition of a support player, a very good one.

Why? A star can create for himself or others. A role player needs to play off the attention of others and the creation of others. And until you get to Ray Allen/Reggie Miller territory, which MLM can but is nowhere near doing at this point in time, he's a support player who will rely on others creating opportunities for him. Shooters who can't create, no matter how great they are at shooting have a long history of being support players. Peja, was a support player, yet an extremely high level support player. Peja still developed his jab step/step back, or quick crossover off a jab step which he could use in isolation, and it was a vital part of his game. Can MLM do the same? Of course he could, hopefully, but he hasn't yet. Nothing wrong with that. Those players are very important. But a star is generally someone you can throw the ball to and have them create something for themselves or others no matter the defense, no matter the situation. That does not coincide with MLM's game right now.
Maybe I can add a little enlightenment to this discussion. There are some on this fourm that I know have seen McLemore play. I've seen him play, counting the tournament, probably 20 times or more. So I think I have a fair idea of what kind of player he is. First, if you've seen him play, and that means more than one game, you'd never compare him to Wes Johnson. Nothing alike! I would never call Johnson a pure shooter, even though he put up good stats. And he was a one year wonder. Plus, Johnson played for Syracuse, which is excellent at hiding your flaws. McLemore however, is a pure shooter with a beautiful stroke. He's also twice the athlete that Johnson is, and Johnson is a good athlete. McLemore almost floats across the floor. He borders on gracefull, or effortless movement. McLemore is a elite athlete, that some would call a freak athlete. He has tremendous range on his 3pt shot. I've seen him launch his shot from 26/27 feet, and it looks effortless. He very good at coming off screens and shooting.

As has been pointed out, his main, and perhaps his only big weakness is his ballhandling. Having said that, he's hardly inept! He's quite capable of going end to end with the ball and dunking the ball, and very few would be able to catch him. To some degree, his problem with ballhandling, in my opinion, has more to do with confidence, and being confortable, than it has to do with inability.. I'd like to remind everyone, that McLemore played PF in highschool, so he's actually made remarkable improvement in a short period of time. The idea that a player can improve his shot, but not his ballhandling makes no sense to me. Where's the logic in that. If you put in the time, and your a well coordinated player, which McLemore is, there's no reason you can't improve. He's a SG, not a PG! If your a PG, then ballhandling is imperative. At SG, its a big plus, and may decide just how good overall you can be, but you can still be a good player with average ballhandling. Mitch Richmond was decent to good ballhandler, but he wasn't an elite ballhandler. He knew hot to use what he had to the best of his ability.

I'm not going to get into this discussion of whether McLemore can be a star or just a role player. Who the hell knows? This I know! He has an excellent work ethic, and he's an outstanding athlete that can shoot lights out. His lack of aggression has been noted. I've noted it in my write up of him. However, as was pointed out during the draft. He was a freshman (redshirt freshman) playing with four seniors. So its possible that he felt a little out of place trying to take over games as a freshman. He's a very humble and almost shy kid. He comes from my hometown of St. Louis, and amazingly grew up only 8 blocks from where I lived.

My aunt that raised me and I were the last white family on our block. All my friends that I grew up with there were black. However, when I wandered out of my area, and Wellston was a place I went to with regularity, because I used to go to the Wellston theater all the time. Got my butt kicked a few times on my way home. Wellston was a very tough area when I lived there, and its probably worse now. So McLemore grew up in a very bad place. I don't think he takes anything for granted. I think he's willing to work his butt off. However, no guarantee that even if he does, that he'll be a star. Let me put it this way. I think there's a star in there to be had. If he works hard, and the coaching staff is what it should be, maybe thats what we'll end up with. But at worse, we should end up with a player that plays off the ball very well, and that can spread the floor.

Didn't everyone say we had enough chucker, ball dominate players on this team. Well at least in the immediate, he's not one of those players. Oh, and by the way, he has the ability to be a lock down defensive player. He averaged around two steals a game. He has excellent lateral quickness, and by all accounts, he loves playing defense. He takes pride in it. So take that for what its worth.
 
I like what his coach Bill Self said about humble Ben - that he never had anything, never expected anything, never complained about anything, just wanted to do the best at everything.
 
Good post Baja.

Now, after thinking about this today, I think the obvious plan is to run out a Reke/MLM backcourt. It makes too much sense, it's an obvious pairing. What do we say a lot during the season? We ask, what would Pop do. What would PJax do. Well, given this roster, they'd pair the two together. I don't think the league, and specifically Malone/PDA forgot what Reke did as a 20 yr old. They recognize the talent. No if you have a talent like that and recognize Reke was best with the ball in his hands, the next logical step is to pair him with a guy like MLM, and if that were the case if makes complete sense why he was such a target for our FO. It also would make sense why PDA/Vivek appear to be downplaying Reke right now as any public comments showing how they value him will bump up his price. I get the impression they're being quiet and hoping to quickly sign Reke next week, and they need to as he has a caphold until he's either signed or goes elsewhere.

And, I think the reason it's hard for us to assume PDA/Malone would run out a Reke/MLM backcourt and we have reservations about it(some of us don't doubt it would work, just that it is the actual plan), is mostly due to our minds being polluted by the Maloof/Smart era. We have to think about what the rest of the league would do, and hands down I think most if given the option with this roster wouldn't hesitate to run out a Reke/MLM backcourt. But we're almost hesitant to believe that because of the Reke is NAPG crowd which has polluted Sac for 2+ years and Smart deciding he'd be best as a 2 or a 3 with half the touches he used to get. But as a few here have said all along, he's best with the ball, would be better with a lights out shooter who's not ball dominant like MLM, and even better in a system with structure, similar to GS last year which I bring up because the key player in running that system is now our head coach. It makes too much sense(we'd run out a slightly different version of a Steph/Klay backcourt). Ask yourself, would this be that tough to believe if we didn't just suffer through the Maloof/Smart era? I say no.
 
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Bottom line for me - Kings couldn't have chosen a better player with the potential of Ben McClemore in this draft. I'm ecstatic about his future in the NBA and for the Kings. If he improves every year until the new Kings arena, Sacramento is going to have an All-Star caliber player in 2016-2017.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
From the presser with Vivek, Malone, and PDA, it was mentioned that Mitch Richmond was part of the decision making process. I wonder if he would take some interest in McLemore as a mentor. I don't know what would come of it but it wouldn't hurt.

Oh, I totally agree with the Tyreke/McLemore back court and sooner rather than later. I like the idea of the size, the athleticism, defensive capabilities, and outright speed that is unusual to find in guys this size. The fact that they have complimentary skills is like a perfect puzzle fit. This could be an incredible back court.
 
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bajaden

Hall of Famer
This is so *** backwards that it hurts. I seriously think some significant percentage of Kings fans think the sum total of basketball is being the fat guy down at the park shooting 40 uncontested foul line jumpers and then going over and plopping down to towel off and chug some Gatorade.

Amongst star level players shooting is ROUTINELY, not just occasionally, but ROUTINELY the very weakest thing they do. The very last thing to develop. I have a theory of why that is true too: many stars are physically dominant. Almost all have kicked the crap out of everyone else with their other skills so easily throughout their lives that its not until they hit the NBA that they finally have to learn a comparatively passive outside shooting game. But that shooting game can and has been learned time and again. Not to the point of dominance, but to the point of counterattacking ability. On the other hand guys who come in shooters will never have the ballahndling and physical gifts that separates the stars.

What do Lebron James and Dwayne Wade and Tony Parker and Chris Paul and Magic Johnson and Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan and Kevin Johnson and Russel Westbrook and Derrick Rose and John Wall and Clyde Drexler and Gary Payton and Chauncey Billups and Jason Kidd and just etc. etc. etc. all have in common? None of them could shoot. All of them were physically dominant first, and then gradually became good enough shooters to supplement their dominance.

Oh, and BTW, Reke's shooting has gotten better too. Even with no further improvements there is nothing separating him from being an 18-20ppg score but Keith Smart, minutes and shots. And there are very few of those left at the SG position right now.
Just my opinion, but I think folks are making a little too much out of this ballhandling thing. Its not as though he's terrible. He doesn't dribble with his feet. As I pointed out, in highschool, he played PF, which hardly prepared him or playing SG. He has no trouble handling the ball. He's a good two dribble and pullup guy. Now put him under pressure, then, at least right now, he might have a problem. Ask him to go out and go into traffic, ala Tyreke Evans, and he might get into trouble. But I doubt he's going to be asked to bring the ball up the court, and in the short term, I doubt he'll be asked to do a lot of self creating. I actually think he's better than he thinks he is. I think he lacks confidence in his ballhandling, so he played it safe and didn't try to do things he felt unconfortable with.

I think he'll get a lot better over time if he puts the work in, and I think he's the kind of kid that will. Now believe me, I know I'm taking the positive side of this arguement. But why not. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves to me he's incapable of certain things. What is lost in this discussion is the fact that McLemore is a very good defender, and has the physical ability to be a lockdown defender. In other words, there's a lot to like, and for now, thats enough for me. Check back with me in three years. I may have a different opinion.
 
Good post Baja.

Now, after thinking about this today, I think the obvious plan is to run out a Reke/MLM backcourt. It makes too much sense, it's an obvious pairing. What do we say a lot during the season? We ask, what would Pop do. What would PJax do. Well, given this roster, they'd pair the two together. I don't think the league, and specifically Malone/PDA forgot what Reke did as a 20 yr old. They recognize the talent. No if you have a talent like that and recognize Reke was best with the ball in his hands, the next logical step is to pair him with a guy like MLM, and if that were the case if makes complete sense why he was such a target for our FO. It also would make sense why PDA/Vivek appear to be downplaying Reke right now as any public comments showing how they value him will bump up his price. I get the impression they're being quiet and hoping to quickly sign Reke next week, and they need to as he has a caphold until he's either signed or goes elsewhere.

And, I think the reason it's hard for us to assume PDA/Malone would run out a Reke/MLM backcourt and we have reservations about it(some of us don't doubt it would work, just that it is the actual plan), is mostly due to our minds being polluted by the Maloof/Smart era. We have to think about what the rest of the league would do, and hands down I think most if given the option with this roster wouldn't hesitate to run out a Reke/MCM backcourt. But we're almost hesitant to believe that because of the Reke is NAPG crowd which has polluted Sac for 2+ years and Smart deciding he'd be best as a 2 or a 3 with half the touches he used to get. But as a few here have said all along, he's best with the ball, would be better with a lights out shooter who's not ball dominant like MLM, and even better in a system with structure, similar to GS last year which I bring up because the key player in running that system is now our head coach. It makes too much sense(we'd run out a slightly different version of a Steph/Klay backcourt). Ask yourself, would this be that tough to believe if we didn't just suffer through the Maloof/Smart era? I say no.
I think it's telling that I was really happy that we even made a 2nd round pick and didn't sell it for cash. Im sure I wasn't alone either
 
So in my view, you guys are mad we drafted a guy with a ceiling of a more athletic Ray Allen, because we already have a SG less athletic, better ball handling version of Andre Igoudala. It makes no sense, and I like Tyreke, but I don't blindly love Tyreke because he makes a good highlight mixtape(which he very well does with his crossovers and nifty finishes around the rim). He doesn't have "IT", that you see with other stars, he just doesn't, he can still be a very good player though.
Where the hell did you get that from? It makes no sense because you completely fabricated and argument in your head.
 
Good post Baja.

Now, after thinking about this today, I think the obvious plan is to run out a Reke/MLM backcourt. It makes too much sense, it's an obvious pairing. What do we say a lot during the season? We ask, what would Pop do. What would PJax do. Well, given this roster, they'd pair the two together. I don't think the league, and specifically Malone/PDA forgot what Reke did as a 20 yr old. They recognize the talent. No if you have a talent like that and recognize Reke was best with the ball in his hands, the next logical step is to pair him with a guy like MLM, and if that were the case if makes complete sense why he was such a target for our FO. It also would make sense why PDA/Vivek appear to be downplaying Reke right now as any public comments showing how they value him will bump up his price. I get the impression they're being quiet and hoping to quickly sign Reke next week, and they need to as he has a caphold until he's either signed or goes elsewhere.
Exactly the question I've been asking myself. If Pop had Tyreke and now MLM, how different are they than Parker/Green pairing? Same style. Parker is obviously a special/unique talent with Championship pedigree, but as far as strategy goes, Tyreke and MLM are not far off, and after a year or two together, might be close to the same level. Difference with SA is they have a HOF PF behind them who is one of the better NBA defenders of all-time. But it's not a bad start!
 
From the presser with Vivek, Malone, and PDA, it was mentioned that Mitch Richmond was part of the decision making process. I wonder if he would take some interest in McLemore as a mentor. I don't know what would come of it but it wouldn't hurt.

Oh, I totally agree with the Tyreke/McLemore back court and sooner rather than later. I like the idea of the size, the athleticism, and outright speed that is unusual to find in guys this size. The fact that they have complimentary skills is like a perfect puzzle fit. This could be an incredible back court.
MLM and Richmond are fairly similar. Richmond definitely became a decent ball handler in his career, but isn't the athlete MLM is. Both are great shooters. Mitch also was more aggressive coming out of college, but he was a also a 4 year player (JC + K State).

The only issue I have with a Tyreke/MLM backcourt is guarding quick PGs, but Malone already has schemes for those scenarios like 1-2-2 zone he ran against SA and Denver at times in the playoffs versus Lawson and Parker. But I'm willing to see what happens there.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
Oh, and Iggy would be such a great fit with Tyreke and MLM as a secondary ball handler, point-forward type. Barnes to a much lesser extent.
I agree. Then we package all the rest of our players and trade for a defensive big or sign Daly if free agency - not likely if we also sign Iggy. Lots of options.

I get the impression that PDA likes putting puzzles together and is very good at it so I think this will be a fun summer.
 
I agree. Then we package all the rest of our players and trade for a defensive big or sign Daly if free agency - not likely if we also sign Iggy. Lots of options.

I get the impression that PDA likes putting puzzles together and is very good at it so I think this will be a fun summer.
Yeah, it will take some serious work just to get enough FA $ under the cap to go after Iggy. Amnesty Salmons, plus trading out contracts and getting less back.

Then going after a guys like Taj Gibson, Amir Johnson, or even Kris Humphries (I'm cringing, but he may be a decent fit) with JT and/or MT to play alongside Cousins and you have a damn good team on paper:

Tyreke
MLM
Iggy
Taj
Cousins

Bench might become a problem though, lol.
 
After a full day to process this I am absolutely loving this pick. I stated earlier that you have a guy, Thornton, who has averaged almost 30mpg for this team the last two years. Comparing McLemore to Thornton you can get an idea of what the fo was thinking here... both guys can shoot (McLemore might end up being an elite shooter though, 42% 3pt, 87% ft, and 63% tsp are unreal for a freshman sg). That's where the comparison ends though... Thornton can shoot and needs the ball coming his way to really offer anything while he's on the floor. McLemore brings defense, offensive rebounding, a target on lobs, and a great finisher in transition to the table as well as being a great shooter. He averaged 16ppg on only 10 shots... he doesn't need the ball to do his thing.

All things equal, if we just substituted McLemore for Thornton's minutes then we've just SIGNIFICANTLY upgraded our team. I think many people's initial reactions about this were influenced by our feelings about Tyreke. Thing is this isn't about Reke... it's about THORNTON imo. Tyreke is gonna be resigned to run the point... he wasn't gonna be brought back to take over for Marcus. That's what McLemore is gonna do. Aside from maybe Otto Porter being brought in to replace Salmons there wasn't one other player in this draft who so clearly was an upgrade over a guy that played significant minutes for us last year. Great pick.