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Is there somewhere online one can watch the Summer League games? Being in Portland, they're clearly not on television here...
Ben McLemore
- Thread starter HereWeBoogie
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You can buy all of em for $15 here https://account.nba.com/summerleaguebroadband/?cid=nba_13_sll_300x250Y
I'm incredibly late to this thread, so apologies if I'm repeating anything as I haven't really looked at this thread yet.
I thought we got decent value for McLemore, but I'm skeptical on multiple fronts. For one thing, the top end of the draft isn't very deep, and in my mock I thought there was a bigger difference between the 2nd and 5th overall pick than between the 5th and 17th (FYI, I had McLemore as the 5th pick of the draft on a talent basis). Secondly, in terms of big name schools churning out big name prospects in the first round, Kansas along with Syracuse have been notorious for producing lesser-valued prospects compared to other schools since 2000. There's a better chance to get a bust than a star out of Kansas since 2000, in other words. They seem to produce a lot of great college-system players under Bill Self that maximize them but that also limits their long term potential in the NBA. To me, that's a bit of a red flag, and that means that we have to re-define our expectations a bit, even if McLemore only spent one year with the Jayhawks. Another thing? Compared to other positions, it's INCREDIBLY tough to extract value out of shooting guard prospects in the draft, for whatever reason. If I were drafting, I'd go for very young players at almost every position before I hit SG. I think there's a steeper learning curve for SGs in general.
There are other indications on why I think he'll amount to very good high end role player rather than full fledged star. His handles and passing ability are on the SG side, but really fringe SG/SF levels, so there's no combo hope for him. He didn't particularly stand out on a strength, lateral quickness, or top end speed basis in his measurements, which combined with McLemore's relative small standing reach for a SG and subpar disrupting ability, kind of makes me question his defensive effectiveness in the NBA. Typically, the guys who break past the super role player mold into stardom have the handles to really be the alpha dog or the defensive pedigree to scratch through, and let's say I'm skeptical with McLemore on this. Being a SG/from Kansas only cements my doubts further.
Otherwise, we're golden. McLemore clearly takes good care of his body and seems like he'll miss few NBA games and can play big minutes, and can really jump--42 inch vertical. And there's virtually no flaws with his own personal offense and scoring tools. He's the sort of guy where if we're playing 1-on-1, he'd probably be the #1 pick or close to the #1 pick, easily. His offensive game is spread out--he's a preferred shooter, but he draws fouls well and slashes as a side option. And he's lights out everywhere he shoots- -9th inside the arc, 9th outside the arc, 7th in free throw percentage. And he'll score in every which way as well. Sharpshooter-scorer is how I'd describe him, with hops. In a league where we pigeonhole guys into sharpshooters or guys into full fledged low volume scorers, that could be valuable. Not a big fan of scoring (it's the easiest thing to get in the league), but every team needs one.
On a 5-to-5 basis accounting for teammates and defense, though, I'm just starting to grow way more skeptical, on top of the value typically gotten out of Kansas players and SGs in the draft. That's quite a few variables against him. There's some stuff that reminds me of a Jason Richardson meets Michael Redd clone at work, here, but as mentioned, that sort of upside typically stops at super role player levels. He'll be something, for sure, but pretty singular in terms of the whole scoring, so on off nights I wonder how he can contribute. Still, in this draft, with our pick, and now (with losing Tyreke), he was a good choice. Prefer Tyreke for sure, but it is what it is.
I thought we got decent value for McLemore, but I'm skeptical on multiple fronts. For one thing, the top end of the draft isn't very deep, and in my mock I thought there was a bigger difference between the 2nd and 5th overall pick than between the 5th and 17th (FYI, I had McLemore as the 5th pick of the draft on a talent basis). Secondly, in terms of big name schools churning out big name prospects in the first round, Kansas along with Syracuse have been notorious for producing lesser-valued prospects compared to other schools since 2000. There's a better chance to get a bust than a star out of Kansas since 2000, in other words. They seem to produce a lot of great college-system players under Bill Self that maximize them but that also limits their long term potential in the NBA. To me, that's a bit of a red flag, and that means that we have to re-define our expectations a bit, even if McLemore only spent one year with the Jayhawks. Another thing? Compared to other positions, it's INCREDIBLY tough to extract value out of shooting guard prospects in the draft, for whatever reason. If I were drafting, I'd go for very young players at almost every position before I hit SG. I think there's a steeper learning curve for SGs in general.
There are other indications on why I think he'll amount to very good high end role player rather than full fledged star. His handles and passing ability are on the SG side, but really fringe SG/SF levels, so there's no combo hope for him. He didn't particularly stand out on a strength, lateral quickness, or top end speed basis in his measurements, which combined with McLemore's relative small standing reach for a SG and subpar disrupting ability, kind of makes me question his defensive effectiveness in the NBA. Typically, the guys who break past the super role player mold into stardom have the handles to really be the alpha dog or the defensive pedigree to scratch through, and let's say I'm skeptical with McLemore on this. Being a SG/from Kansas only cements my doubts further.
Otherwise, we're golden. McLemore clearly takes good care of his body and seems like he'll miss few NBA games and can play big minutes, and can really jump--42 inch vertical. And there's virtually no flaws with his own personal offense and scoring tools. He's the sort of guy where if we're playing 1-on-1, he'd probably be the #1 pick or close to the #1 pick, easily. His offensive game is spread out--he's a preferred shooter, but he draws fouls well and slashes as a side option. And he's lights out everywhere he shoots- -9th inside the arc, 9th outside the arc, 7th in free throw percentage. And he'll score in every which way as well. Sharpshooter-scorer is how I'd describe him, with hops. In a league where we pigeonhole guys into sharpshooters or guys into full fledged low volume scorers, that could be valuable. Not a big fan of scoring (it's the easiest thing to get in the league), but every team needs one.
On a 5-to-5 basis accounting for teammates and defense, though, I'm just starting to grow way more skeptical, on top of the value typically gotten out of Kansas players and SGs in the draft. That's quite a few variables against him. There's some stuff that reminds me of a Jason Richardson meets Michael Redd clone at work, here, but as mentioned, that sort of upside typically stops at super role player levels. He'll be something, for sure, but pretty singular in terms of the whole scoring, so on off nights I wonder how he can contribute. Still, in this draft, with our pick, and now (with losing Tyreke), he was a good choice. Prefer Tyreke for sure, but it is what it is.
So I have been reading in all these off season threads about how terrible McLemore is and how we can't go into next year with him as SG, etc. I think a lot of you need to evaluate at just how bad the SG position is in the NBA right now.
Here are the invitees to be on the Olympic team:
Shooting guards: Bradley Beal, Washington Wizards; James Harden, Houston Rockets; Kyle Korver, Atlanta Hawks; Klay Thompson, Golden State Warriors.
Not exactly an amazing cast of players. With some normal Sophmore progression and the rounding out of the roster, Ben can be a tier below these guys at minimum. By no means do I think he is the savior, but I think we are comparing Ben to SG of the past, not the present.
Here are the invitees to be on the Olympic team:
Shooting guards: Bradley Beal, Washington Wizards; James Harden, Houston Rockets; Kyle Korver, Atlanta Hawks; Klay Thompson, Golden State Warriors.
Not exactly an amazing cast of players. With some normal Sophmore progression and the rounding out of the roster, Ben can be a tier below these guys at minimum. By no means do I think he is the savior, but I think we are comparing Ben to SG of the past, not the present.
I sure hope so. The problem is that Ben of the present (at least the 2013-14 season) was bad. Like, 62 of out 65 SGs listed on ESPN's PER ranks bad.
His shot looks so nice, I have no choice but to hope that it will start falling. And hopefully with a full summer and preseason of work with Malone & co, his defense will improve. So, perhaps he can at least become a good 3&D guy (which, for the 7th pick in a historically bad draft, is not so bad). But without major help to his handle, he's not going to become the star SG that we hoped for, and that this team still (in my mind) very much needs.
(note that this post used some derivation of "hope" four times)
His shot looks so nice, I have no choice but to hope that it will start falling. And hopefully with a full summer and preseason of work with Malone & co, his defense will improve. So, perhaps he can at least become a good 3&D guy (which, for the 7th pick in a historically bad draft, is not so bad). But without major help to his handle, he's not going to become the star SG that we hoped for, and that this team still (in my mind) very much needs.
(note that this post used some derivation of "hope" four times)
For my part as the biggest poster in the "not now for starting Ben" crowd (or maybe I'm the only one) - I don't think we need a "star" from the rest of the league, we simply need a tall, competent ball handler, savvy play maker to be actively involved in the offense, maybe score once in a while, and otherwise be invisible. I don't pretend to know the other 29 or 40 other SGs in the league but I'd bet PDA knows who they are and has the best chance of anyone in finding one "for sale".
Ben's improvement at the very end of the season was most encouraging but most of that was being more active, taking and making shots. We need someone starting in that position to do the stuff that Ben still is so poor at - dribbling (not much but well), handling and passing the ball and being at least competent on defense. Those aspects help the PG do his job, really gives us another man on offense to make sure the ball gets in the right hands. Ben couldn't do this and mostly wasn't involved in the offense. He is still not near.
Ben's improvement at the very end of the season was most encouraging but most of that was being more active, taking and making shots. We need someone starting in that position to do the stuff that Ben still is so poor at - dribbling (not much but well), handling and passing the ball and being at least competent on defense. Those aspects help the PG do his job, really gives us another man on offense to make sure the ball gets in the right hands. Ben couldn't do this and mostly wasn't involved in the offense. He is still not near.